[MOD] Weapons Poll - Overpowered vs Underpowered - Tell me if you think a weapon should be buffed or nerfed

[Grimzentide 15]

Here is a poll that asks for feedback on which weapons you think are overpowered or underpowered.

Answer the poll here

Edited January 27, 2013 by Grimzentide

[Inception. 9443]

I have submitted mine.

But there are one or two problems with the poll: The M8 is in there, and the M249 SAW has been repeated.

[Grimzentide 15]

But there are one or two problems with the poll: The M8 is in there, and the M249 SAW has been repeated.

Thanks. I got the data from the wiki and it still had the M8... Will remove the second m249.

[-Gews- 7443]

Let me tell you what's overpowered or underpowered (relative to other weapons):

-Winchester: Overpowered! This should shoot .44 rimfire or .44-40! Which are at handgun power levels. Not slugs.

-Shotgun slugs: slugs should do a lot more damage than they currently do. Right now they do less than half the damage of a 7.62 FMJ. Slugs are big and nasty!

-AS50: this should have similar power to the M107 since they are the same calibre... but for reasons unknown, BIS decided to make it nearly 5 times as powerful.

-Handguns and SMGs: totally underpowered. All of them.

-5.56x45mm and 5.45x39mm weapons. All take too many shots to kill a player.

-Crossbow: a hit to the chest area would be pretty damaging especially with a hunting broadhead, and good luck moving and breathing with an arrow stuck through your lungs.

Part of the problem is that a survivor in DayZ is roughly twice as tough as a soldier in ArmA. How would everyone like having zombie-level health, eh?

[LaurenDanger 100]

Funny, I've used most of these but a bunch I rated at 3. The biggest issue is that the pistols need figuring out.

As I figure it, against a zombie, you need tee or four shots for the M1911 and the 45 revolver, and those shouldn't take more than two shots to the body. The 9x19 weapons shouldn't take more than three, and the 9x18 maybe four. It's a nice mix.

Purpose built SD weapons, maybe they could do a bit less damage since the round is slowed a bit as well as the gasses being bled off.

And, hm. Well the Winchester could go the same route of the .45 revolver. Two hits rather than one on a shuffling zombie. But then if they introduced a .50 cal Desert Eagle or big revolver, it would make the whole be a nice beast with fewer rounds and make the Enfield look like a tambourine when we talk about what gun is the dinner bell.

[Zoki671 29]

Part of the problem is that a survivor in DayZ is roughly twice as tough as a soldier in ArmA. How would everyone like having zombie-level health, eh?

Players should take more damage, but bleed a bit slower

so you have time healing yourself after getting shot and surviving the bullets

[smore98 225]

Though it was an impressive break-through in the use of the ArmA engine to create a zombie-survival simulator, the game still has it's areas of unreasonably visible OP stakes.

Military weapons are quite common throughout the DayZ experience, especially the all the Military Encampments in certain towns (most common assault rifle was the AK-47).

And to what Gews said about Handguns: They are supposed to be underpowered. If the logic of zombie elimination were put into effect (brain only = zombie death), they would be used as an emergency weapon, like if you were getting attacked out of the blue by one. Best case scenario, a shot through the temple will get him off you in a jiffy. For regular players, the main fault of the handguns is not relied on their power, rather the games medical interface and how it works. If you were to perhaps get shot in the side by a .45 caliber bullet, chances are you mobility will be greatly diminished by such an open wound, especially if you were shot in the lower limb. The nerves of that certain area will immediately go into shock, which would then lead to the brains motor skills becoming relentlessly useless.

Also, what I find in a CZ or M24 in what kind of damage they would do would be completely irreversible in such an environmental If you were shot 9.3x62mm caliber, you will be getting a small entry point in the front, and wide, possible a diameter of 1 foot hole in the exit wound, and that's just with a regular brass bullet.

I won't go more in-depth into what I see within the medical or gun mechanics within DayZ, but by all odds, they will be improved in Standalone.

[Grimzentide 15]

Results (601 Votes)

Key

1. Very Underpowered
   
2. Slightly Underpowered
   
3. Fine the way it is
   
4. Slightly Overpowered
   
5. Very Overpowered
   

Weapon - Average Score

• Crowbar - 1.53
  
• Hatchet - 2.93
  
• Compound Crossbow - 1.80
  
• Makarov PM - 2.26
  
• M1911 - 2.54
  
• M9 SD - 2.73
  
• M8 - 2.86
  
• G17 - 2.68
  
• PDW - 2.74
  
• Bizon PP-10 SD - 2.32
  
• MP5SD6 - 2.31
  
• MP5A5 - 2.25
  
• Revolver - 2.51
  
• Winchester 1866 - 2.95
  
• M4A1 CCO SD - 3.19
  
• AKS-74U - 2.78
  
• Double-barreled Shotgun - 1.95
  
• M1014 - 2.46
  
• Remington 870 (Flashlight) - 2.41
  
• AK-74 - 2.82
  
• AKS-74 Kobra - 2.85
  
• M4A1 - 2.99
  
• M4A1 CCO - 3.07
  
• M4A1 Holo - 3.10
  
• L85A2 AWS - 4.09
  
• M249 SAW - 3.34
  
• M4A3 CCO - 3.12
  
• M16A2 - 2.95
  
• M16A2 M203 - 3.01
  
• AKM - 3.14
  
• Lee Enfield - 3.09
  
• FN FAL - 3.29
  
• FN FAL AN/PVS-4 - 3.27
  
• M250 - 3.20
  
• Mk 48 Mod 0 - 3.52
  
• M14 AIM - 3.29
  
• M16A4 ACOG - 3.08
  
• CZ550 - 2.74
  
• DMR - 3.47
  
• M136 Launcher - 2.73
  
• SVD Camo - 3.11
  
• M107 - 3.90
  
• AS50 - 4.36
  

Edit: Updated figures Jan 29th

Edited January 29, 2013 by Grimzentide

[-Gews- 7443]

And to what Gews said about Handguns: They are supposed to be underpowered. If the logic of zombie elimination were put into effect (brain only = zombie death), they would be used as an emergency weapon, like if you were getting attacked out of the blue by one. Best case scenario, a shot through the temple will get him off you in a jiffy.

I don't fully get what you're saying, but in any case having to use 8 rounds of .45 ACP or 13 rounds of 9x18mm to kill a player is a bit much...

As for the 9.3x62mm used in the CZ... totally, massively underpowered! It should be far more powerful than it is. Right now the CZ550 does not shoot 9.3x62mm, it shoots 7.62x51mm. The description is incorrect... the 9.3 is a big round which can even take Cape Buffalo. The bullets are usually 286 grains compared to only 147-175 grains for the 7.62x51mm - and those 9.3 bullets would be expanding hunting bullets, unlike the military weapons which would fire FMJ!

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

The CZ550 should have a total damage rehaul, as the cartridge it fires is HUGE(I've handled quite a few bolt-action cartridges, the 9.3 is one of them). I also think the 7.62 firearms should remain a two hit kill, one hit knockout. I like the idea of being able to incapicitate a player and not kill him. I could loot him while he is unconcious, or give him a transfusion and epi-pens if he turns out to be okay. And the SMG's are WAY too underpowered. They should do more damage than the pistols, but stay below assault rifles. They should take 5-6 shots to kill, not 12. And the AK-74 variants need a damage buff to be similar or above to the 5.56 weapons, as 5.45x39 is equal and if not greater in stopping power to the 5.56 NATO round. And the .50 cal snipers need to go, or have a serious nerf. These things just don't belong in this kind of game.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Cap'n

[aussiestig 681]

I don't believe in artificial balancing. Unless the weapon isn't equal to it's real life counterpart, I don't care whether it's not balanced. This game is about realism, not about keeping 12 year olds happy.

[Grimzentide 15]

I don't believe in artificial balancing. Unless the weapon isn't equal to it's real life counterpart, I don't care whether it's not balanced. This game is about realism, not about keeping 12 year olds happy.

So everything should be a 1 shot kill if you hit the head, except maybe the crowbar?

[TIC 1050]

Let me tell you what's overpowered or underpowered (relative to other weapons):

-Winchester: Overpowered! This should shoot .44 rimfire or .44-40! Which are at handgun power levels. Not slugs.

-Shotgun slugs: slugs should do a lot more damage than they currently do. Right now they do less than half the damage of a 7.62 FMJ. Slugs are big and nasty!

-AS50: this should have similar power to the M107 since they are the same calibre... but for reasons unknown, BIS decided to make it nearly 5 times as powerful.

-Handguns and SMGs: totally underpowered. All of them.

-5.56x45mm and 5.45x39mm weapons. All take too many shots to kill a player.

-Crossbow: a hit to the chest area would be pretty damaging especially with a hunting broadhead, and good luck moving and breathing with an arrow stuck through your lungs.

Part of the problem is that a survivor in DayZ is roughly twice as tough as a soldier in ArmA. How would everyone like having zombie-level health, eh?

So you say Winchester is overpowered but you say slugs are underpowered? ;)

[-Gews- 7443]

So you say Winchester is overpowered but you say slugs are underpowered?

Slugs are underpowered, slugs are more damaging in real life, slugs are about .70 caliber and an ounce or more of soft, expanding lead.

Problem is the Winchester shouldn't shoot slugs at all, it should shoot a handgun-power .44 round. So the Winchester is overpowered BECAUSE it shoots slugs, even though slugs themselves are still underpowered.

I agree with AussieStig about artificial balancing - this isn't Battlefield 3, it's not a game, it's a sim. I want everything as real as possible for that is the purpose of a sim.

[reuben5150 83]

I do not agree with the current overall weapon damage model, because of the nurfing we are moving way from hardcore and headed into COD/BF territory.

From a realism point of view a lot of the changes do not make sense, eg, all 5.56 weapons were reduced to 3555 except the L85 HOLO which was buffed to 8000 !

I realize that reducing the 5.56 damage has the benefit of giving players a little bit more chance of survival when under attack and making firefights last a bit longer.

But rather than reducing the weapon damage it would maybe better it introduce bullet vests as a lootable item and would work in a simlar way to BFBC2.

[taco241 393]

Maybe they can change the ammo info on the CZ to say .270 win. or something. That would bring it more in line with it's actual performace.

That rifle is available in a variety of calibres.

Never undertood the winchester 1886. If adding a lever gun, I would have changed it to a

common gun lilke the Winchester 1894 in.30-30,or maybe, a Marlin in .45-70 gov.

That would fill the gap nicely between handguns and military rifles

[BioHazard050 49]

Imho the .50s should be removed or made so rare that finding one is an act of god and replaced or supplemented with the .338 Lapua magnum. Still a one hit kill, but it won't destroy a car in one hit.

[terminal_boy 860]

Shotguns are somewhat messed up with some slugs having a range of 250 metres (which is at least 100 metres optimistic, even with a red-dot sight), but half the damage of a 7.62 NATO rifle.

Going on muzzle energy alone, both a 12g slug and a standard 7.62x51 NATO FMJ round generate around 3,500 Joules; so the damage and terminal effects should be at least equal on paper.

The Winchester 1866 should cause the same damage as the M1911/Revolver, but out to the current 150 metres range it already has.

Effective ranges of pistols in DayZ are 7 sorts of messed up, by the way, with most having ranges of 75 metres (50 metres too far).

[aussiestig 681]

So everything should be a 1 shot kill if you hit the head, except maybe the crowbar?

Yes, and it already is. Even a makarov is a one shit to the head, and this is common knowledge.

[Sutinen 635]

By the way, the Bizon is called "PP-19" not "PP-10"

Not a flame, I just want to help you fix this.

And yeah, 12 gauge slugs are very underpowered at the moment. That's a .729, compare that to anything else currently in the game.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Sutinen

[-Gews- 7443]

Maybe they can change the ammo info on the CZ to say .270 win. or something. That would bring it more in line with it's actual performace.

That rifle is available in a variety of calibres.

It's so easy to change the caliber of a rifle, just type in a few values, it only takes a minute or two even to calculate the "airFriction" value, I have no idea why Bohemia messed up with the CZ. By the way, the ammunition classname for the CZ is "5x_22_LR_17_HMR", which shows that something is terribly wrong. :lol:

Imho the .50s should be removed or made so rare that finding one is an act of god and replaced or supplemented with the .338 Lapua magnum. Still a one hit kill, but it won't destroy a car in one hit.

The Lapua is actually equally as powerful as the M107 and it has a faster muzzle velocity, too, so that would just be replacing a .50 with a .50. They used inconsistent values for the sniper rifles in the British Armed Forces pack, that is why the AS50 does more damage than an armour-piercing 20mm round.

[Average Pegasus 646]

Done. Btw I only use my weapon against zombies and not player. So i do know how 5.56 bullet react with other player.

but I think (im am not a gun expert) that 5.56x45mm should take more shot to kill one zombie.

[BioHazard050 49]

It's so easy to change the caliber of a rifle, just type in a few values, it only takes a minute or two even to calculate the "airFriction" value, I have no idea why Bohemia messed up with the CZ. By the way, the ammunition classname for the CZ is "5x_22_LR_17_HMR", which shows that something is terribly wrong. :lol:

The Lapua is actually equally as powerful as the M107 and it has a faster muzzle velocity, too, so that would just be replacing a .50 with a .50. They used inconsistent values for the sniper rifles in the British Armed Forces pack, that is why the AS50 does more damage than an armour-piercing 20mm round.

Huh, then I guess the ballistics are not 100% accurate then.

[-Gews- 7443]

Huh, then I guess the ballistics are not 100% accurate then.

Well, they have Lapua-specific values for airFriction, muzzle velocity, etc, it's just the damage on the L115 and AS50 that is weird. I should make a ticket on dev-heaven asking for it to be "fixed". Pretty sure Bohemia did it on purpose, but I don't understand why.

[floogy (DayZ) 25]

I am a gun collector/hobbyist who is also a gamer. Guns and PC games have been a hobby of mine since I was a boy and I like them both equally. I like the fact that Arma bases the damage of it's weapon on the round and not the gun itself although barrel length/no. of twists does have a slight effect on accuracy and velocity, but I digress. Any round from the .22 short to the .50 BMG has the potential to kill with one shot. Now the flip side to this is the fact that this a game, albeit one attempting to be as realistic as possible. I do feel that the handguns should be tweaked up a bit for damage and down for accuracy. A handgun is rarely effective beyond maybe 25m in a combat scenario. I'm not sure how many here have used a handgun extensively but it is challenging to fire under perfect conditions, much less combat. But, you catch a round in the vitals or the head you aren't going to be a happy camper. Shot placement is everything. Check out the FBI report on terminal ballistics, interesting read for those who want a down and dirty lesson on the subject.

Overall, I think the damage is fairly well represented in Dayz. There are a couple of gripes I have though. I'm not sure why there is significant difference in damage between 5.56x45, 5.45x39 and 7.62x39. As far as terminal ballistics are concerned these are very similar. I have fired all three in many types of weapons (5.45x39 in an AK74 is my favorite). 5.56 is the most accurate but that could just be the M16 platform, it also shoots a bit flatter than the 5.45 and a lot flatter than the 7.62. The modern 5.56 NATO round has probably about 100m more effective range than the other two. Ironically the 5.45x39 may be the most deadly type of round if you consider the original bullet for the AK74 had a hollow space under the jacket (not to be confused with a hollow point). This would cause the bullet to disintegrate on impact causing a devastating wound channel prone to infection. The Mujahadeen fighting the Russians in Afganistan called it the "poison bullet" because of this.

I think the damage for the 7.62 class of weapons is just about perfect. Head or chest, done. Legs, broken and useless. There is a reason US special forces brought the M14 back into service as a a combat rifle. I have mixed feelings about the .50 BMG rifles in the game since they do have a place as anti-material rifles but they are so rare in the military that I could never see them finding their way into the hands of a post apocolyptic survivor. In a unit of thousands there may be 2-4 of these rifles in use. Have any of you ever actually seen or held an M82/M107? Just walking around with that thing would be a challenge, much less running. They are realistic in the sense you can use them to great effect against people but the mobility/rarity of them in a real scenario makes me question their validity in the game. I like the suggestions for including .338 Lapua which is a very powerful round similar to the .50 BMG in ballistics. But again, very rare in the military (the Brits use it) and rarer still for civilians. I do like Rocket's comment about adding more civilian weapons in the SA game. Makes sense to me.

Yes, I have a collection of real guns. Yes, I was an active duty US Marine which is where I was able to handle and fire a lot of US and other weapons during my career. No, you shouldn't take my opinons as fact. No, a game cannot be absolutely realistic. It still needs to be fun, real life is often no fun at all.

Sorry for the winded post but I really enjoy this game. Thought I'd add my opinion to the topic.