SA DayZ: No Modifications? [POLL]

[The_Man 393]

I heard from a few sources (interviews, speaking with moderators) that the Standalone version of DayZ will not have an open code and will not be capable of modification like the current DayZ.

The reason behind this, from what I understand, is security and other reasons.

What does the community think about this? Are you worried? Happy? Voice your opinion here.

My opinion is that this type of game (with such open ended choices a-la sandbox) should be open source from the start and let people tweak it how they please. The only reason I can think of not doing this is that it splits up the community in private and public hives. It seems this choice is not only for security but also to make a larger, unified community. I don't really see that working in such an open ended game but hey, I'm willing to change my mind if I hear a good argument. DayZ 2017 is my main drive behind this opinion by the way. I am not a fan of gunfights from 1.2 kilometers away without much skill ballistic skill involved. People who enjoy DayZ2017 will be missing out on all the new tweaks the SA will have if the game can't be modified.

Edit: Added a Poll!

Edited January 25, 2013 by smasht_AU

[OrLoK 16186]

Hello there

I like Rockets ideas, so I for one am happy with the no mod aspect for the SA, especially as we have the mod too err umm....mod.

If the SA heads in a direction I dont like, I have the mod to fall back on.

Rgds

LoK

[Mos1ey 6301]

Happy.

The less hackers, the better and anything that prevents/makes their job harder is inherently good IMO.

[The_Man 393]

Happy.

The less hackers, the better and anything that prevents/makes their job harder is inherently good IMO.

Very good point. How efficient is keeping it closed source at preventing hackers? I am not a developer myself so I claim ignorance!

[DemonGroover 8836]

I agree with keeping SA closed if it keeps hacking to a minimum.

We still have the mod for all the community input, so best of both worlds.

[Mos1ey 6301]

Very good point. How efficient is keeping it closed source at preventing hackers? I am not a developer myself so I claim ignorance!

The game won't exactly be 'hackproof', no game is, but the open nature of ArmA 2 is the reason we had such big problems with the mod.

Also, IDK about the rest of the community, but I absolutely hate what DayZ has become. 9,001 vehicles on the map and spawning with night-vision goggles defies the point of playing for me and I literally can't find a stock server that isn't on the main hive, lol.

Edited January 24, 2013 by mZLY

[The_Man 393]

The game won't exactly be 'hackproof', no game is, but the open nature of ArmA 2 is the reason we had such big problems with the mod.

Also, IDK about the rest of the community, but I absolutely hate what DayZ has become. 9,001 vehicles on the map and spawning with night-vision goggles defies the point of playing for me and I literally can't find a stock server that isn't on the main hive, lol.

No hey , I think the general amount of people dislike that. I know I do. However, mods like DayZ2017 make the game a bit more challenging to me. I am not much of a military buff anymore so the entire end-game gear being military gear doesn't suit me. Give me a crossbow or winchester and a water bottle and I'm set. But hey to each their own! Maybe different levels of game play could be allowed? Small tweaks like Gun tier cut offs could appeal to the entire audience?

[DemonGroover 8836]

The game won't exactly be 'hackproof', no game is, but the open nature of ArmA 2 is the reason we had such big problems with the mod.

Also, IDK about the rest of the community, but I absolutely hate what DayZ has become. 9,001 vehicles on the map and spawning with night-vision goggles defies the point of playing for me and I literally can't find a stock server that isn't on the main hive, lol.

I know off topic but i totally agree - i had to actually scroll through all the servers last night to get into one that wasnt 300+ vehicles, starter weapon, 50,000 blood, zombies do no damage, no friendly fire and free muffins for everyone.

[Mos1ey 6301]

It's not off-topic, it's one of the main reasons I'm stoked about DayZ foundation release being completely closed, lol. :)

I remember the early DayZ of the mod when there weren't even altered timezone servers, after 5PM I pretty much had to either play on a US server with 100+ ping for a few extra hours of daylight or play in the dark and it was EPIC!

Personally, I wish the SA would stay 100% closed forever but I know Rocket's been talking about opening it up a bit as time goes on. I just hope it doesn't get to the point where it's impossible to find populated stock servers like the mod has. I was being serious when I said I've literally been unable to find one.

Edited January 24, 2013 by mZLY

[barrance 22]

i agree. nothing to add.

...

[SmashT 10907]

I have to say no. I fear the game would be flooded with 800 vehicle, starting loadout servers like we see happening with the mod.

I do want to see additional community maps though and I am sure there is some compromise there so we can see community generated content/maps without having the game entirely open so anyone can do anything with their servers.

Edited January 24, 2013 by smasht_AU

[psylnz 34]

I have to say no. I fear the game would be flooded with 800 vehicle, starting loadout servers like we see happening with the mod.

I do want to see additional community maps though and I am sure there is some compromise there so we can see community generated content/maps without having the game entirely open so anyone can do anything with their servers.

I voted no, but I agree with smasht_AU on the maps. I do want to see custom user maps in the standalone.

[BT_Fae_HB 24]

if it gets rid of hackers then lock it up nice and tight as far as I'm concerned.

[Zachstar 59]

Open source? Hell no. The whole point is to make things harder on hackers not easier.

For mods. My opinion is eventually there should be a version that is made just for developing maps and models and such and completed works can be submitted for approval and hosting so that there is complete standardization and quality control.

[The_Man 393]

Open source? Hell no. The whole point is to make things harder on hackers not easier.

For mods. My opinion is eventually there should be a version that is made just for developing maps and models and such and completed works can be submitted for approval and hosting so that there is complete standardization and quality control.

Hackers intensely only target popular games. DayZ exploded in popularity and this was expected. It happens in most games. The downside to keeping it on lock down is that the modding community will suffer. Rocket has stated that it was a VERY tough call to make considering Bohemia Interactive Studios past in game development. The modding communities were and still are huge. Controlling it with standardization and quality control will also be detrimental. Unfortunatly, many of the gamers that play DayZ haven't really been around since games like Operation Flashpoint. I have been and I'm offering a little insight here: A game like DayZ with a great modding community (controlled if it must be) will keep this game alive much longer. That has always been the case. I understand that DayZ Standalone will be a completely separate game (Not a military simulation) and it shouldn't have to conform to those older standards.

My point: Allowing this game to be modified will make it many times better. It may not be apparent on these forums but do a little research into it and you will see how modding for Op. Flashpoint + ARMA was very successful.

[Zachstar 59]

There is no evidence to say it will be better. The open nature of Arma II says teh opposite actually.

Standardization and Quality control means good works of the community have a far better chance of being used. Look at tavi. Two different versions with the same @ and a boatload of confusion.

So yes maybe there wont be maps with tons of ripped models and other copyrighted works. That just makes even more incentive for people to make creative commons licensed works for the community to use.

[The_Man 393]

There is no evidence to say it will be better. The open nature of Arma II says teh opposite actually.

Standardization and Quality control means good works of the community have a far better chance of being used. Look at tavi. Two different versions with the same @ and a boatload of confusion.

So yes maybe there wont be maps with tons of ripped models and other copyrighted works. That just makes even more incentive for people to make creative commons licensed works for the community to use.

Better? No evidence that it could make it worse or better. Staying power? Absolutely there is evidence.

Look how many private hives there are... Not everyone is entirely content with the direction of the mod so they took it into their own hands. It doesn't really matter to them that there gear won't be across all servers. There has been a large influx of private communities with 1 or 2 servers they go to regularly. Sound familiar? Yeah, sounds the past decade of BIS video games.

I'm surprised no private hive server owners are voicing their opinion here.

[Zachstar 59]

Private Hives are mostly in response to the amount of hacking on public servers which much of that owes to the open nature of Arma II.

And the past decade of BIS games were not DayZ. The biggest mode before DayZ was Warfare.

There is no evidence that rocket would stop a mode such as DayZ 2017 or tavi. They just might have to be checked out first and hosted on the Steam servers that feed DayZ SA to start with.

In the end. DayZ is not Arma II or Operation Flashpoint. It is a massively open game that is attractive to hackers. These changes are necessary regardless.

And if you absolutely must have your map with ripped HL2 weapons or so just stay with the mod.

[The_Man 393]

Your first statement is false. White-listed servers are in response to hacking.

Private-Hives are consistently modified from the original game. This is not due to hacking. They don't change load-outs or other mechanics because of hackers.

I think you are missing my point intentionally. Modders shouldn't be punished because of hackers. "Stay with the mod" is an ignorant statement. Why should modders not be allowed to have the most current version of the game and create something they want with it? Rocket did it with ARMA II and now he is turning his back (no disrespect) on the people that wish to do the same thing.

Edited January 25, 2013 by The_Man

[Auslovich 48]

If it is a compromise for having less hackers, then it's fine with me.

With no 10,000 vehicle servers there will be less experienced pilots and drivers, which suits the earlier players which is good imo. Maybe people wont KOS people who claim they can actually fly.

Also, on the subject of super-pussy servers, some douchebag admin banned me for complaining about the end-game starter equipment on almost every Fallujah server.

[Zachstar 59]

The_Man You say no disrespect but that is exactly what you are doing to him.

Hacking is killing DayZ PERIOD. Changes that make hacking harder and more costly are FAR above on the priority list than modding.

Having basic quality requirements (Don't rip crap from other games and call it a map) And standardization (Fed in through Steam instead of requiring a program like Six Updater) Won't kill modding. My guess is that the vast amount of extra features being backported from Arma III and Take On Helicopters will actually make things far better for them. They just might have to wait a bit for SA to mature through testing before they can be given the tools to do so.

And my guess might be completely off. He may decide to perma-block mods (Which would be unfortunate but understandable) or they may actually get security to a point where they can allow some basic mods to be installed outside of steam.

Saying he is turning his back on the modding community is utter and complete crap.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Zachstar

[SmashT 10907]

Rocket is really passionate about modding, it's how DayZ came about so I seriously doubt he is "turning his back on the modding community", security is the number one priority though so it's going to have to wait.

We need to lock it down initially and ensure we can make it difficult from a hacking perspective. Later, once we have confirmed effective results, then we really want to look at modding, as it is such a huge part of the DayZmod success. What we also want to do is look for ways to involve the community modders in the actual development of the standalone, as an interim.

That's a definite end state. We’ve talked about that. It’s hard, because you don’t want to make something that came from being heavily moddable and then make it not like that. But the issue is, we’re making a game that allows players to interact with each other in a competitive environment. So we need some rules. What we’re going to start off with… Because it’s a small team, because we want to focus the development as we lock it down, the moddability will come later once we've solved that problem. We need to say, “Okay, this problem is effectively solved.” You’re never going to completely clear out hacking, so solving that is not getting rid of it completely. But at the very least we should be able to detect it adequately and deal with it adequately and roll it back and such. Once we've reached that point and pushed the game through, that’s when we can start doing it. And maybe we can get a little bit creative and make sure it fits within the world.

Look, this whole project has been about sometimes making those hard decisions. Not necessarily ones you want to make. I’d like to be able to turn around and say, yep, we’re going to carry on with all this modding and that kind of stuff, but… Every user out there who’s played DayZ a bit knows how much of a problem the hacking is. I think even the hackers would say that themselves. So we need to deal with that. And the only way to deal with it is to go back to basics. So we’ll go back there and then hopefully claw our way back.

Edited January 25, 2013 by smasht_AU

[The_Man 393]

Saying he is turning his back on the modding community is utter and complete crap.

You are right. I guess he won't be turning his back on them. Not all of them at least. He is turning his back on the people who have no interest in contributing to the standalone (Simply not enough time or interest) but operate their own private servers with communities they build up. Not every modder wants everyone to contribute something EVERYONE uses. These niche servers won't exist and that is the problem for me. It isn't a big one but I bring up the discussion because I know quite a few little communities like this that will be affected. It sucks. But hey, at least "somewhere" down the line uncontrolled moderating might come back I'm raising the issue now because it is defiantly an issue that will be coming up after SA is released.

[Nomadic Nut 70]

If that means less hackers then i'm all for it, i mostly just play regular DayZ as it is with none of the other modded maps (though i do dabble on occasion)

[Zombie Jesus 723]

Just have to laugh at the irony of the prevailing opinion in this thread on the Dayzmod.com but I get the sentiment behind not wanting the game to be modded. It would be cool to see the game eventually opened up for modding because it can add quite a bit to a game. Sure there will be some things that people will not agree with, but you give up so much by not allowing that experimentation from a variety of people.