How about we make the karma point system reward skin?

[jasokun 4]

So we all know about the karma system right? Get positive points if you patch someone else or kill zombies and bandits, lower if you kill other survivors.

The point of the karma system I believe it was originally intended was to be able to track down the players who griefed or killed other players,

and in turn find a way to make it harder for them to play the game with promoting to kill bandits on sight.

The issue became a killed or be killed scenario where the game didn't regonized when one was merely shooting in defense, yet still become a bandit.

Now I'm not against the bandit or karma system, I like that it gives certain players a different way of playing the game if they choose to take the "realistic" route.

I however do not agree with a no consequence ideal that gives no penalties for being a bandit, if anything the current game rewards it by getting quick easy loot.

My suggestion: Use the karma to track positive and negative scores. This score should be the only thing that carries over characters. If you died with a -50 then your new life will have start with -50.

This score should be adjusted and pointed by how the player plays the game. 4 very simple actions that are in game I feel should be the major factors in determining a player's "role model".

1. Using blood to heal another player = +2 karma.

2. Using bandages, pain pills or shots to fix another player = +1 karma.

3. Shooting a player, regardless of who shoot first = -1 karma. (The -1 point is per player shot, not per shot, so shooting the same guy 3 times is not -3 points, but shooting 3 people each is -3 points)

4. Killing a player, regardless of who shoot first = -2 karma. (A kill is a kill, even if they are gunning you down, or you're afraid they'll kill you first, you still killed another player, thus moral/karma)

I believe 1 and 2 are very humane and leads to the ideal of a friendly "hero" character, who play the game to help other players, which are shown by using their own items to help others. I believe these players should be awarded the hero skin, which basically tells other players with a visual que that this player has at least perform trust worthy actions to earn the hero costume and who is less likely to shoot on sight. It will be like in game respect that you can earn.

3 and 4 are for bandits who are more hostile. The visual of wearing bandit skin has proven to be very...shoot on sight syndrome. Now it's not to say you should shoot every bandit on sight since they've been killing players themselves, but it's a good visual warning to others saying these players are dangerous. If you see another player wearing bandit skin and he doesn't see you, take that as your cue to either run or take him out.

How I see the skin point totals are at +10 karma points, the player should then get a hero costume, maybe look like the military? At -10 karma points, the player will get a bandit outfit. Players at the begining have 0 points, and according to the point chart and how they play their game, determines if they become a hero or bandit. Now if a player turns into a bandit, and they want to return to become a survivor, all they have to do is hit the neutral 0 mark, meaning they'll have to do positive points to get back up, and vise versa for heros who want to turn back survivor, just shoot up some other players.

Now I am not sure if I support the killing bandit with no consequence thing either, since I don't believe there's a big difference between hero or bandit, they are people who play differently. I think if you shoot at another, it should still count as a bandit point. And if you kill them, well that's -3 karma points. Now by my math, I'm making becoming a bandit very easy, meaning if you shoot and kill 3 players, you're already at -9 points. To be a hero, you'll have to heal 5 players, or patch up 10 times, which is much more harder than killing players if you ask me.

When it comes down to it, I don't think people who are bandits or heros should actually have a ingame bonus like having more health or better gear, it should just be a social thing that treats as a visual for other players telling you if you regularly heal or kill. That gives them the a indirect way to know how they want to confront you, or to the more careful players, run away. I believe that should be the best way to use the karma system without making one side better than the other. Now bandits can kill others for quicker loot, but heroes will have in game respect and be easier to approach and socialize.

I mean say you're out in the real zombie world, and you're bleeding bad. Would you rather be a bandit who are known to kill on site, or a hero who other players may be more prone to help out since you help others? Different survival and gameplay which I believe suit each "class", which the player if determine to change their ways can do it without too much difficulty.

Additional addons:

- Maybe we change the points up to 100 and 200 positive and negatives, where the skin checkpoints are at 1000.

- I don't see zombies as a real karma issue, it's a survival need for all parties. But if we wantwe can make every zombie kill +10 karma (+1% = from neutral karma(0), 100 zombie kills = hero skin. ex. Heal 3 people (+600) and killing 40 zombies (+400) = 1000 karma points)

- Add a second or third tier for bandit and hero skin, like if you get +2000 and +3000 karma points, new exclusive hero skins for each tier can be ranked at soldier, military, and sargent. For bandits, we can go rookie (face mask), killer (mask+army wear), and murderer(full camo).

- If a player wants to change their skin or move to another tier, they'll have to hit the 1000 karma mark for each tier above or below their current level.

Alright that's my ranting. If anyone want to discuss if they like the point system or dislike what I wrote or thinks karma is useless or we should kill bandit scums, go ahead I just want to know if this is a solid system that could be simple and effective to the development of the dayz experience. Here hoping for a wonderful hunting and dog mods, a fellow S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

[Testwd3r235 2810]

Negative to bandit = No one trusts them so they get shot on sight

Positive to hero = Speed boost and I think there is a health boost

and hero's should have a bonus because it's alot harder and when I go up to people who I just saw murder others and ask them to drop their gun and then ask if they need healing, heal them, turn my back on these people to run away constantly, I want a reward.

Edited January 20, 2013 by MacabreLlama99

[beastoverlord 574]

Yeah, a hero skin reduces damage slightly I think.

It's not karma, it's 'humanity.'

I don't care much for this 'self-defense' stuff. If someone has bad intentions, they will eventually become a bandit. If they are nice they will stay as a survivor. If you have players that stick to one server, they will get a predefined role. The only reason why survivors are killing people is that they are probably new to the server and haven't gone in one direction or the other.

[Dancing.Russian.Man 1631]

This score should be the only thing that carries over characters. If you died with a -50 then your new life will have start with -50.

No.

Edit; And I'm not even a bandit.

You don't seem to understand the point of DayZ, do you?

/discussion

/thread

Edited January 20, 2013 by Dancing.Russian.Man

[Testwd3r235 2810]

No.

Edit; And I'm not even a bandit.

You don't seem to understand the point of DayZ, do you?

/discussion

/thread

I missed that line...the point is as he said "in your new life" it's a new life and that's why NOTHING carries over.

[jasokun 4]

Well why I want the humanity points to move over lives is to keep tabs on the player themselves. If you were a bandit in the old life, and you make a new life, what's from stopping you from going back to bandit mode? It's a means to warn others about the player, because one, your hands should not be cleaned so fast given lives are up to an hour at average, and two, a hero who heals about 5 to 10 players in one life, just to die to reset, kinda demotes the drive to be a friendly if that all goes to waste in your next life. But I can understand wanting to play a fresh character every time.

[Dancing.Russian.Man 1631]

Well why I want the humanity points to move over lives is to keep tabs on the player themselves. If you were a bandit in the old life, and you make a new life, what's from stopping you from going back to bandit mode? Nothing. But the whole point of dying is the fact that you'll "take control" of a character that has just gotten to the point where everybody else starts as well. Meaning, 2500 humanity, 1 pack of painkillers, and 2 bandages along with a flashlight. Sure, you can just pick up a gun and start shooting people again, or you could do a complete 180 and aim to become a hero. Besides, anonymity between players at distance should be kept, regardless of their history in their previous life -- which the character the player is controlling did not have, by the way. It's a means to warn others about the player, because one, your hands should not be cleaned so fast given lives are up to an hour at average, Then why did nobody know about Hitler being capable of the things he did? I mean, surely, he must've been just as bad in his previous life, right? Oh wait, a person only lives once. (Like it or not, but it's a valid example. Don't disregard it simply because of the name of the person.) and two, a hero who heals about 5 to 10 players in one life, just to die to reset, kinda demotes the drive to be a friendly if that all goes to waste in your next life. There are plenty of people who I know to keep persistently playing as a Hero, regardless of the amount of deaths they experience. If you truly enjoy helping others rather than ridding them of all their progress, you won't need to think about becoming a Bandit too much. But I can understand wanting to play a fresh character every time. Do tell, because even I can't find a proper reason as to why I don't kill on sight even though I've been killed so many times in the past. I never really was a bandit nor do I plan on becoming one, and I'm sure I've died more than those Bandits who camp on a hill with a rifle.

Redness for justice.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Dancing.Russian.Man

[dallas 5195]

As it is now humanity carries over from life to life.

If you die as a bandit, you respawn as a bandit.

You start with 2500 humanity.

You become a bandit at 0 humanity.

You become a hero at 5000 humanity.

Humanity regenerate with 30 every minute(?).

Humanity will only regenerate up to 2500.

If you want to become a hero, you have to receive additional 2500 points from giving blood transfusions, applying bandages and morphine injections.

I don't really like that the hero skin comes with tiny bonuses, for me humanity is mostly about a cross server reputation, which players are allowed to hide with ghillie suits/camo clothing. The cool thing is that even if you meet a hero, you can never know for sure if he will help you or kill you. However because it's a part of the game, it's something new player are presented with, which forces them to at least think about the consequences of killing. It wont stop them and it wont dictate their play style, but because it's a part of the game, they learn that there is an alternative to killing everyone you see.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Dallas

[harley001 315]

As a current hero we get a speed boost and a bulletproof vest. It will deflect pistol bullets outright and reduce dmg from everything else *a stanage round does 1200 dmg instead of 2000* but I could be wrong.

[Dancing.Russian.Man 1631]

As it is now humanity carries over from life to life.

If you die as a bandit, you respawn as a bandit.

It never was that way, besides for the glitchiness of the humanity system back when it was re-implemented.

Unless a private hive has modified it, of course.

Edit; Yup, sounds like a glitch. Or the less likely chance of the server changing how the skins work.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Dancing.Russian.Man

[dallas 5195]

My public hero spawned a hero, when he died a hero, then again it's been a while since he died.

[Sm1L3y 9]

Karma is a bitch... Nuff said...

[hogscraper 328]

They should definitely keep it so there are consequences or rewards for your actions but make them more defined and expansive. Make it so a hero cannot become a hero unless he is medicating/using a blood bag on someone that was injured by a bandit. Zombies are a central part of the game and I don't like that someone can become a hero for no other reason than playing the game as intended. Hero skins should come from being a hero. A bandit using a blood bag on his bandit friend should not gain humanity either.

[Hetstaine 10852]

4. Killing a player, regardless of who shoot first = -2 karma. (A kill is a kill, even if they are gunning you down, or you're afraid they'll kill you first, you still killed another player, thus moral/karma)

If you kill someone who has just gunned down a defenceless noob on the coast i fail to see how that should denote a bad moral/karma point. Like wise someone who guns down your partner and is gunning for you, so you retaliate. What that system is saying that killing is always going to generate bad points regardless of the situation. Which is no different from what we have now. I see a whole fukton of code number crunching going on in the background if they can ever come up with a system that works correctly i.e...

Dude who camps and kills new spawns , spots newspawn , kills undefended new spawn - your 1 point for killing and -2 for killing a defenceless player. Me who stalks the land trying to rid it of kos players sees this event, kills dude while he is awaiting his next free kill, lose no points because it happened within a two-three minute window where the guy is a pointless kill because of his actions. Same would apply with the guy who gunned down my partner , once he opens fire he opens that two-three minute window where he is a pointless kill.

Maybe the time window could be bigger, but if you do not witness the defenceless killing then you have no way of knowing that you are ridding the world of a scurvy dog.

Also if i kill someone who just gunned down my partner for no reason other than reflex kos i can tell you i am going to feel quite cheerful and expect good things to come my way ;)

The onus should be on whoever opens fire first , not someone who is coming to aid the situation. I think somebody did a massive thread a while ago about this but there are so many variables that are open to flaws/workarounds that it makes it hard to implement a good all round system. How does bandit on bandit work ? Hero on bandit ? Hero on Hero? New spawn who manages to hatchet a geared up megabandit with 100 kills under his belt ?

As it stands at the moment i have trouble holding fire on bandits as i know it is very easy to not wear the bandit skin. I have had two bandit skins since April. When i see people ranting about how 'self defense made me a bandit' i think of all of those innocent people in prison ;)

[captainwaffles 41]

I think there should be no skins based on humanity if I slaughter others im not going to tell everyone and it is very stupid thst heroes get an advantage at all

[CreepySalad 108]

No humanity system please.

There is a name as face suggestion on the front page that will even this out.

But the humanity thing is stupid.

We're supposed to allow all players to play on an even level.

Giving them skills and perks for being either a good or bad guy isn't doing that.

You can't tell who's a good guy or bad guy in real life, can you?

Edited January 25, 2013 by CreepySalad