Dying and the Consequences-SA

[Abexuro 17]

If you want death to have a bigger impact, you need to make being alive for long meaningful.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

Agreed. That really is the only answer. For as long as you character feels "disposable" death will just be an annoyance. I'm hoping that when all of the new features are in place and the SA development is finished there will be enough content and game mechanics in place to make the progress you have made with your character pretty unique, hopefully death will have you smashing up your PC :)

[Toxiclegend 36]

Hi, yes this is my first post on here but I told my self I'd stay away until the SA is released but I can't I keep coming back checking for news and reading all the topics about the SA. It'll my my christmas come late :P

Anyway on topic.

You guys don't know what they are doing, obviously. With the disease system mentioned would you really want to go up to your dead body and risk catching a life threatening disease just for the sake of a few things you found out in the field anyway? If yes then consider the new item system they are working on, it'll happen like this: You loot your old body and manage to not get any disease from the body, you try put on that old ghilie you had them night vision goggles and what do you know the ghilie is carrying a disease and the night vision goggles need fixing cause they got shot. Now think to yourself was it worth running to your body to catch a disease and pick up useless goggles that need repairing?

But in ways I do agree, there should be some sort of reward for staying alive for days, I'm not talking items, gun or anything like that, but to do with your charecter, some sort of increase in stats or reduced hand shaking after sprinting I dunno, but hopefully by adding the diseases and new item system people will care if they die, they wont just think "Oh, nevermind I'll just run back and reloot myself. Lets hope I get a good spawn"

[Bribase 251]

Agreed. That really is the only answer. For as long as you character feels "disposable" death will just be an annoyance. I'm hoping that when all of the new features are in place and the SA development is finished there will be enough content and game mechanics in place to make the progress you have made with your character pretty unique, hopefully death will have you smashing up your PC :)

And that's what I'm looking for in my DayZ experience!

Do you think there will be an immunity/resistence mechanic? You catch one strain of disease and it's unlikely you will catch the same one again, having developed the antibodies that can fight off that particular disease more easily? That seems like the kind of organic game mechanic we are looking for to make death more significant. Unlike an RPG scheme where it hinders your skill as a player by arbitrarily making your weapon less powerful, easy to aim or makes you run more slowly or able to carry less stuff early in the game it simply affects your overall survivablity out in the wilderness. You don't need to worry about catching the sniffles, just the bullets flying at you and the zombies clawing at your goolies once you become an established character.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Bribase

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

It's early days. Rockets brother is a virologist and will be helping him implement the system. Rest assured though that it will be game changing and comprehensive. I'll have a look for the thread where Rocket discussed it, it's interesting stuff.

Edit - Here you go, have a read: http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/107637-feedback-on-status-of-infectious-diseases-in-dayz/page__hl__%2Bdisease%2C+%2Binfection

Edited January 14, 2013 by Fraggle

[Embroil 27]

If you want death to have a bigger impact, you need to make being alive for long meaningful.

I wrote earlier that to make a more meaningful life character must be unique, and to make him unique he needs to make unique customised items for himself.

[DemonGroover 8836]

I would like consequences to be an even bigger part of DayZ. Death should be the ultimate hassle, not a slight inconvenience.

I wouldn't want any sort of respawn timer though. Perhaps a solution could be that dead bodies can spawn zombies - so as you rush off back to your body with no weapon on hand you suddenly find 6 zombies chowing down on your old corpse? If your mates are guarding your body then have zombies spawn close by after a few minutes, just to make it interesting?

I don't know, i'm rambling a bit now, but my point is - Death should be something you want to avoid at all costs. The problem for the devs is how to implement such a thing into a video game.

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

I would like consequences to be an even bigger part of DayZ. Death should be the ultimate hassle, not a slight inconvenience.

I wouldn't want any sort of respawn timer though. Perhaps a solution could be that dead bodies can spawn zombies - so as you rush off back to your body with no weapon on hand you suddenly find 6 zombies chowing down on your old corpse? If your mates are guarding your body then have zombies spawn close by after a few minutes, just to make it interesting?

I don't know, i'm rambling a bit now, but my point is - Death should be something you want to avoid at all costs. The problem for the devs is how to implement such a thing into a video game.

I like the idea of you're body being taken over by ai after death, Issue is that's very restricted to how you die. The game isn't zombies that come back alive. If you get shot in the head, regardless to if you're infected or not. You are dead.

I do think making the characters more unique is a good way to go though, as Embroil said, But this is limited too since there wont be any skill tree's. The ways you make your character unique would have to be hard, something you put a lot of time and risk in too. Not just a character customization in the title screen.

I do think my idea of a 'respawn timer' is the best way to go as of right now for the 'mod', but the truth is DayZ hopes to have a lot more players, that's a lot more of chances you're body will be found, A lot harder to get to you're body too. There will be a lot more Variable in DayZ SA then in DayZ Mod.

I feel the hard truth is that this thread is premature, since we don't really know how DayZ SA will behave.

[DemonGroover 8836]

I like the idea of you're body being taken over by ai after death, Issue is that's very restricted to how you die. The game isn't zombies that come back alive. If you get shot in the head, regardless to if you're infected or not. You are dead.

I do think making the characters more unique is a good way to go though, as Embroil said, But this is limited too since there wont be any skill tree's. The ways you make your character unique would have to be hard, something you put a lot of time and risk in too. Not just a character customization in the title screen.

I do think my idea of a 'respawn timer' is the best way to go as of right now for the 'mod', but the truth is DayZ hopes to have a lot more players, that's a lot more of chances you're body will be found, A lot harder to get to you're body too. There will be a lot more Variable in DayZ SA then in DayZ Mod.

I feel the hard truth is that this thread is premature, since we don't really know how DayZ SA will behave.

I'm not suggesting the dead bodies become zombies, but that dead bodies spawn zeds, much like when you approach a building zeds spawn when you get close. So as you approach your corpse you find 5-6 zombies close to it or munching on it. Something along those lines anyway.

Like you say i think we need to wait for SA and see what happens.

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

I'm not suggesting the dead bodies become zombies, but that dead bodies spawn zeds, much like when you approach a building zeds spawn when you get close. So as you approach your corpse you find 5-6 zombies close to it or munching on it. Something along those lines anyway.

Like you say i think we need to wait for SA and see what happens.

Oh I like that idea ;) Sorry for miss reading it. But that makes a lot of since.

[hoik 415]

Do you think there will be an immunity/resistence mechanic? You catch one strain of disease and it's unlikely you will catch the same one again, having developed the antibodies that can fight off that particular disease more easily? That seems like the kind of organic game mechanic we are looking for to make death more significant. Unlike an RPG scheme where it hinders your skill as a player by arbitrarily making your weapon less powerful, easy to aim or makes you run more slowly or able to carry less stuff early in the game it simply affects your overall survivablity out in the wilderness. You don't need to worry about catching the sniffles, just the bullets flying at you and the zombies clawing at your goolies once you become an established character.

Yes, this makes alot of sense IMO. I also think it would be cool if there is a chance of spawning with a natural resistance to certain diseases, or as a carrier :) .

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

From what I've read on the subject, that is what they're aiming for :)

[Paddy0610 278]

I think rocket also meantioned that if you get shoot for example in your head while wearing NVG´s they will be destroyed.

I don´t exactly know if this system will work for all your equiptment, but if it does each Firefight and each death will destroy your equiptment more and more. So even if you could loot your body again it could be pretty annoying to recognize half of your stuff broken.

[Jonsse 69]

I'm not in favor of any arbitrary restriction like a respawn timer. WarZ did that only so they could sell micro transaction items for removing it.

The way I see it is that when you respawn you're a new survivor, not another you. So if you were killed in place X and you find the place again, you should be able to loot "your" old body, they're a different survivor regardless who was controlling them before. But that is inherently the problem, a fresh survivor is exactly the same as a 3week old survivor physically. There is no benefit to living longer.

That brings up several points made in this threat earlier that could be implemented in to a character, statistics that increase over time;

-Resistance to disease

-Increased stamina, ability carry more weight and move faster for longer.

-General action speedup, reloading, repairs, refueling.

-If you've been shot before, your threshold for pain could increase. Might not need painkillers as easily.

Just a few ideas there, it could be anything. Just as long as it's not too powerful.

Adding benefits rather than penalties is in my opinion a much better way to build on.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Jonsse

[Quartermaine 34]

Simple, remove body and loot in 10 mins.

Gives the looter reasoable time to get to the body and likely prevents the owner getting to his own corpse in time.

[dallas 5195]

I wouldn't mind a punishment for repeated deaths to select a more favorable spawn locations, but I don't want to see DayZ turn into a RPG, where grinding walking or eating beans increase your skills. I think the skill set you gain in DayZ, should simply be the knowledge you gain from your mistakes and experiences.

I also think they need to be careful about tampering with people's different motivations to making all the different choices. I think DayZ's absolute best feature is that players find their own motivation and are able to justify their actions, based on their own outlook, how they chose to survive, when society isn't there to hold their hand and tell them what they can and can't do. Some people will be overly careful and some dangerous reckless.

We all have to constantly balance the struggle between greed, need, survival and security and I think it's very important, that bandits still feel motivated to cause havoc, even at great personal risk. Without unnecessary and random violence, any extremely complicated gameplay mechanism will quickly get crunched, mastered and become predictable. With forums, social media, you simply can't prevent data-mining and meta-gaming, people are too lazy and too smart. People will figure out these mechanisms sooner, than later and then we'll need the crazy people willing to drop anvils from tall buildings on our heads to keep this game interesting.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Dallas

[(OLT) Tom 15]

This is why we need some kind of "LeaderBoard" so players could be both proud and shame for their results , leader-boards are arcadish approach but let us all not forget that this is a game and it got to give the players

some idea for where they stand relative to others , and aside from some good ideas i read here like ban the player for X amount of time before he can return to the server i really think that a leader board is required .

[hoik 415]

I think the skill set you gain in DayZ, should simply be the knowledge you gain from your mistakes and experiences.

Without unnecessary and random violence, any extremely complicated gameplay mechanism will quickly get crunched, mastered and become predictable. With forums, social media, you simply can't prevent data-mining and meta-gaming, people are too lazy and too smart. People will figure out these mechanisms sooner, than later and then we'll need the crazy people willing to drop anvils from tall buildings on our heads to keep this game interesting.

Yes, I get your point - as long as this "anvil" isn't detramental to the game. IMO you have to integrate banditry, as well as plain old greifing, into the game as much as possible. If you make it legit and interesting from anyones perspective (I mean, for all play styles) then no matter what a player does it will be contributing to the game in a way that is authentic.

As for leaderboards, I think it is important for some players to compare stats - especially kills. While for others killing is a nececary evil. I think there has to be a way for player to express their attitude to killing in game, by letting players take certain actions.

This is an example of what I mean:

An interesting mechanic to help players guage the moral compas of others(in their vecinity) is by allowing players to either descrate a dead player (by taking trophies, like ears etc) or respect them (By making a marked grave, etc).

- trophes can be kept for kill counting. It should be the proof that you killed someone .

- Paying respect could mark the grave on your map. It is the proof you have payed your respects.

- Importantly, both these actions will be evident to anyone who finds the corpse.

Doing either of these actions will then be a definitive signpost of the type of player that is in the area. It lets you be more situationally aware, which I think is good. Of course this system still relys on choice - a player can still kill someone without doing anything to the body.

This is just an example - the basic idea is to let players do specific actions that appeal to their p[laystyles. But then let those actions be evident in the game, so others can "read" them and determine for themselves what type of players are around.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Hoik

[Never 237]

Well, hasn't rocket stated that each item will have its own ID number these days?

Simple solution,

Give each and every player a unique tag as well, equipment IDs linked to any tag gets remembered by the server, upon death the server removes those equip ID from that players 'world'.

that way the server can display items for looters but bar players from re-gearing from their own corpse.

You could even go uber-harsh and totally bar those items from that player, i.e a players mate collects their stuff for their dead buddy, drops a gun for the respawn but all the respawn sees is a pile of empty cans instead. But tbh thats properly too over the top.

[Paddy0610 278]

Simple, remove body and loot in 10 mins.

Gives the looter reasoable time to get to the body and likely prevents the owner getting to his own corpse in time.

If you ever get in an real firefight it would be done within 10 Minutes. I used to have some Group fights that took about half an Hour. Pretty intense but real fun.

Its no 1 shot dead, loot body, run thing ^^

Edited January 14, 2013 by Paddy0610

[Abexuro 17]

Not everyone runs back to their body, and it's not always possible either. There are some people that do this, and it's even easier when you have a tent or vehicle.(just put all your gear in it and die) But fixing this re-gearing from your own body isn't going to change anything for players that play legit already.

It's said a few times before, but dieing just isn't annoying enough yet. And you don't change that by punishing the player even harder, but by making him lose more, more than just items. How close you might be to dieing, it should be more advantageous to keep on trying than to suicide.

[psstloaf 17]

loots bad but if there was xp and player level which you lost at death! everybody would thirst!

also if your corpse turned into a zombie when you died, getting your loot back wouldnt be so easy!

Edited January 14, 2013 by psstloaf

[Toxiclegend 36]

loots bad but if there was xp and player level which you lost at death! everybody would thirst!

Yeah but this isn't an RPG it's meant to feel life like

[psstloaf 17]

Yeah but this isn't an RPG it's meant to feel life like

do you not progress in real life to achieve better things ? the more you do something the better you get at it!!! not everybody is the same

[Toxiclegend 36]

do you not progress in real life to achieve better things ? the more you do something the better you get at it!!! not everybody is the same

Yeah you do but you don't level up, you don't walk down the street and see "Congrats you now have 99 walking" The devs just need to find a way to make people want to throw their PC out the window when they die