Take On Helicopters (DayZ SA) flying adjustments!

[finkone 320]

Ok so I started a general thread about this - wasn't really meaning for it to be a idea, it kinda became one.

Overview

-Adjust the flying mechanics in the SA of DayZ to make it MORE difficult to fly. Thats right, MORE difficult.

Take On Helicopters (From what I hear, the next DayZ Engine)

Take on Helicopters is pretty much a full fledged flight simulator. Now before your shorts start to get all tight up in your butts - I'm not saying make DayZ a full fledged flight simulator - I'm simply saying make the taste, of flying a helicopter a more difficult one. I'm more scared to drive a car full speed through a town then I am to conduct a rapid landing to drop off buddies under active fire from a helicopter.

How ToH differs from DayZ in the positive manner

-You have actual flying mechanics that are serious factors that are not very forgiving.

1-Engine damage from excessive torque applied to the rotors. In ToH you can damage your engines from flying wide open throttle all the time. DayZ doesn't have this factor.

2-Speed limit parameters, again in excessive use can cause mechanical damage to the bird, in DayZ its full tilt, full throttle, all the time. Which is lame.

3-Autorotation - dealing with autorotation for me, is fun - with most real helicopters, when you increase your collective, and throttle, you have to compensate your tail rotor with the foot pedals - during regular flying, AND ALSO in the event of a engine failure. The anti-torque of the bird is effected in a negative way then crashing in ToH. In DayZ whatever direction you are heading the helicopter starts to turn it for you... as if on a baby walker. Autorotation landings are a joke in DayZ because of this - you will NEVER see that awesome blackhawk down crash like in the movies (... again, refering to the movies in no way being disrespectful to the real event)

4-Weather conditions / altitude - within ToH the wind, rain, snow, and altitude depending upon craft can make it unsafe to operate. In DayZ - it don't matter if the wind seems ass backwards and the "rains coming from the ground" it flys regardless.

5-G Forces! Thats right... putting extreme pressure/warp on the rotor system of a aircraft is damaging, in ToH its a real nice way to break your engine off completely. In DayZ - no problem... another helicopter chasing you? Just keep full tilt, full throttle, full random banks... there is no mechanical limits...

Reasoning

-1- Well for one, the aircraft hoarders might have a harder time maintaining them - which I like because I hate me a hoarder.

-2- It will make using a helicopter to scout for other players bases more dangerous - since you'll really need to find a good pilot.

-3- Another main reason since they are using the ToH engine, they would be able to just implement the wonderful coding from BIS to add these features to the game, because they are... already in a game.

-4- Player groups would be more interested in seeking out players that do have the ability to fly. It might lead to slightly less KOS ... who I am kidding, this won't help KOS at all... ;X

Now on a side note - someone suggested to make helicopters spawn more often, but still limit the over all amount of them in the server. So if one was crashed you could be able to find another on the map - just not sure which location. Which I agree with this entirely.

Now again, I am in no way shape or form saying make DayZ a helicopter simulator - but I am however saying there is a way to make these things a lot more dangerous for the users - which from my stand point if they've got a helicopter ... they got it easy and should be worried. Imagine ya' got some dumb-butt behind the stick, and hes raggin' the engine hard... engine shuts down on him and hes forced to do a autorotation landing... man... that'd be great.

Some of these elements would do wonders for this game in regards to people and helicopters. Helicopter on Helicopter battles would be a lot more realistic as well, not to mention it would make my DayZ if I saw strollin' in cherno and I saw some guy trying to auto-rotational land because he was flying like a ass-hat.

Love it or hate it - NONE OF THESE SUGGESTIONS, NONE would need any coding because they are already built and within the ToHs engine which DayZ SA last I heard - is being produced on.

Edited January 10, 2013 by FinKone

[Dr-Shade 83]

Absolutely YES!!!!!

I agree completely.....

Somebody is bound to disagree though.... will be interesting what their reasoning will be :rolleyes:

[Kyzahh 127]

I would only agree with this if they implemented a practice feature. Basically like the editor in Arma 2. Because if you only get to practice in the actual DayZ game it's going to be:

- Find a helicopter

- Find all the parts it needs to become operational

- Repair it

- Attempt to take off and probably immediately crash

Edited December 27, 2012 by Kyzahh

[CapricornOne (DayZ) 379]

I would only agree with this if they implemented a practice feature. Basically like the editor in Arma 2. Because if you only get to practice in the actual DayZ game it's going to be:

- Find a helicopter

- Find all the parts it needs to become operational

- Repair it

- Attempt to take off and probably immediately crash

Hence the need to recruit a pilot. This immediately changes the dynamic of the game and the issue of killing on sight.. People may think twice about killing someone who may prove useful to them. - In an ideal world anyway :D

[finkone 320]

Oh man, people are getting it... ;)

[RuecanOnRails (DayZ) 23]

I play ToH and only play on the highest difficulty. It is a great game and I fully support the implementation of locked max difficulty of heli's in stand alone.

There have been a few other threads I've seen discussing take on helicopters, might be able to search through them to find more points to add to the OP.

DayZ is a zombie survival SIM, lets try to keep as much sim gameplay involved. The helicopters should not be dumbed down for the impatient people who don't take the time to learn how to fly.

I highly suggest checking out take on helicopters.

There is a demo you can try here http://takeonthegame.com/take-on-demo/

keep in mind this game is not ment for keyboard/mouse players you need preferably a HOTAS control stick, but even a basic control stick from a pawn shop for $20 would work.

Not to mention the added meta game added from being a skilled pilot is HUGE, I love flight simulators and have spent countless hours flying around in take on helicopters just for the fun of flying.

[Bribase 251]

I think this fits well with Rocket's sense that if you are good at something you should be good at it in DayZ. It's pretty much settled that there will be no arbitrary class system in DayZ but an increase in complexity to the game mechanics from medicine to hunting to combat will force players to specialise in an entirely organic way. I would love to see something like a stripped down version of the startup procedure for a helicopter in game:

You want to fly across the map in minutes and kill bambis in Cherno? Expect to spend a few nerve shredding minutes sitting in the middle of NWAF trying to spin the engine up fully while rival squads eye you up in their sights.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Bribase

[Bribase 251]

Hence the need to recruit a pilot. This immediately changes the dynamic of the game and the issue of killing on sight.. People may think twice about killing someone who may prove useful to them. - In an ideal world anyway :D

Absolutely. I wrote something similar here about the idea of hunting being so specialised that servers depend on skilled hunters to keep squads looting, fighting and building. Making them a character that people want to keep alive, their skill being more valuable than their loot. The same could go for an accomplished mechanic, field medic or in this case helicopter pilot.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Bribase

[Bearded McGee 121]

Few great points.

Mainly, making flight more difficult.

Which is always a plus.

More people crashing = More helo respawning

Higher skill requirement = Designated pilot

Still, lets not make it too difficult. If I recall, there are skill levels in TOH that dictate how complicated flying is.

Either keep it at a mid level or have it dependant on the server setting (difficulty).

Heck, this is the same discourse some people are having concerning snipers/marksman rifles/optics.

Make them less reliable/more realistic/accurate.

By the easy mean of modelling windage into the ballistic.

Calculating drop or just zeroing is too easy.

Also, it's more fun for everyone when an ambush fails because the first shot(s) fell off because of wind.

P.S. You used the word autorotation...

It does no mean what you think it means.

Autorotation is one of the few things that are modelled (to some extent) in Arma 2 and then DayZ.

Look it up.

[Ratsmon 131]

Yeah, having someone who knows in this area on how to pilot will definately add more to the game rather then going up to a chopper clicking 2 buttons and you're done :I

/support

[Bearded McGee 121]

To add a bit about autorotation (because it is SERIOUSLY something many should practice)

It saved my life in DayZ maybe three times.

I don't like bailing so I often crashed with the damn thing.

Now, I'll bail if I must but I saved the whole damn thing a few times.

[finkone 320]

P.S. You used the word autorotation...

It does no mean what you think it means.

Autorotation is one of the few things that are modelled (to some extent) in Arma 2 and then DayZ.

Look it up.

Oh this gonna be fun.

We will talk about what I've used in my writing, since I don't need to look anything up - you do.

I'm going to assume this is the line we are talking about.

3-Autorotation - dealing with autorotation for me, is fun - with most real helicopters, when you increase your collective, and throttle, you have to compensate your tail rotor with the foot pedals. In DayZ whatever direction you are heading the helicopter starts to turn it for you... as if on a baby walker.

You must have gotten confused because I put autorotiation prior to mentionin' keeping the helicopter straight using anti-torque pedals... in the event of a crash landing - so I'll let that slide on that part, but explain in more detail what happens when a crafts single engine has a complete failure...

I'll spell out some underlying mechanics that are in ToH that ain't in DayZ or Arma 2.

When you have a entire engine failure within a rotorcraft helicopter, you loose your tail rotors power, not always all of it - but most of it. This creates a large anti-torque problem. You surely know how helicopters fly without a tail rotor? Right?

The example that I mentioned autorotation and was using it for a different situation, but still being placed as a correct term - was autorotation procedures in the event of a engine failure.. which are in Arma 2, and DayZ - but on a childs play scale. You simply need to glide close to the ground on a joke level and pull back to do a rough landing in DayZ or Arma 2, not the case in the real deal, or ToH for that matter.

You can find a full detailed understanding of "STRAIGHT-IN AUTOROTATION" which is the term used in Emergence Procedures listed in Chapter 11, Page 1 (of chapter 11), Figure 11-1.

Straight-in is what DayZ and Arma 2 ALWAYS offer since tail rotor torque is not a suffering factor in the crash. Which is silly.

So next time you post a video - you to sir can use the correct terms since you are a terms nazi - you are using a Straight-In Autorotational landing method, because Arma 2 does not support a mechanical failure of the rotor systems themselves only a power loss to the main rotor, the rear rotor has to be freakin' blown off entirely... which I've never had to land in Arma 2 or DayZ without a rear rotor...

So now that I've cleared up some negative nacys coming in here - and we all understand, we can move on. You can get the book direct download from Kindle also if you are still interested in learning Bearded McGee.

Edited December 27, 2012 by FinKone

[Bearded McGee 121]

The FAA does?

Well, it's a shame.

In any case, I follow the more complete and more often update EASA.

And Autorotation is a term valid for one thing and one thing only.

Too bad you got all high and mighty about this.

This is not a pissing contest, don't know you want it to be.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

Back on topic peeps, if this descends into a debate about auto-rotation it's going to bore the pants off of everyone.

Regarding the actual idea, I love it. As Bribase said, making elements like this harder/requiring more practice should be the way DayZ moves forward for me. That way, someone that plays the game and becomes good at a specific skill will become a valuable player, and it negates the need for skill trees and grinding, once you have practiced and learned a skill it can't be unlearned.

In DayZ Heli's should be rare and they should also be hard to fly IMO (thus more fun too if you master it). Of, course, if that's the case then the spawn system will need changing, but that's no major issue.

Edited December 27, 2012 by Fraggle

[barrett_killz 229]

Only without the machine guns, .50 cals, rockets and other ammunition on it.

[klesh 2423]

As well intentioned and thought out as these arguments are. I am not in favor of it. This is like asking all the cars to be made manual transmission and require a clutch, gas, and brake pedal in order to drive them instead of just pressing W for "go".

With as much paranoia and distrust in this game, you're expecting people to find a helicopter, spend quite awhile repairing and fueling it, and then hand over the keys to a complete stranger... the only person around who is capable of flying a hardcore simulation level helicopter that they've been essentially forced to have to recruit solely to fly the around?

I've not played ToH, but I have watched a few vids, and if the Standalone were to ever implement helicopters in the way they are presented within a hardcore helicopter simulator game, they would risk turning off a huge amount of people.

Edited December 27, 2012 by klesh

[finkone 320]

I agree, that so many people would be turned off that perhaps they'd find the helicopter of a larger camp... but instead of even TRYING to fly it - they simply bypass it and opt for a vehicle rather then a rotorcraft because of this...

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

I agree too. I wouldn't want a full on flight sim like TOH but some of the elements from it. Basically I'd like a level of difficulty that means you can't just hop in and fly without having ever played DayZ or Arma before and having not read or trained at all. it should require practice and skill. In my opinion it's things like this that will separate DayZ from the copy-cat games in the future.

[Bribase 251]

I've not played ToH, but I have watched a few vids, and if the Standalone were to ever implement helicopters in the way they are presented within a hardcore helicopter simulator game, they would risk turning off a huge amount of people.

I disagree with the idea that people would be turned off. The history of DayZ's development is evidence in itself that gamers crave a challenge. Instead of a steady climb up a skill tree from lowly mortal to superhuman badass like in WOW, Fallout and Farcry (to name a few), DayZ depends on your familiarity with the terrain and game mechanics to survive. The reason why it's so popular is because it's not handed to you on a plate. An increase in complexity when piloting a whirlybird is just an extension of this. The key to it is a mechanic that can be learned by playing the game instead of consulting a forum or a search on youtube.

[Quartermaine 34]

This is a great idea. It would definitely separate the hardcore survivors from the casuals. My arguement would be similar to Bribase's

[Welch (DayZ) 756]

I think the requirements to be able to fly a heli would be we actually have to flip the correct switches in the cockpit to get it flying. Then nobody but helicopter pilots would get to fly.

[Quartermaine 34]

I think the requirements to be able to fly a heli would be we actually have to flip the correct switches in the cockpit to get it flying. Then nobody but helicopter pilots would get to fly.

Being able to start the KA50 Black Shark from the ground, I am very OK with this.

[Welch (DayZ) 756]

Being able to start the KA50 Black Shark from the ground, I am very OK with this.

You, sir, would be one of the very few able to fly a heli. Have fun getting recruited by any group you could ever want to be in, lol.

[finkone 320]

I'd have to do a bit of research on the craft type, or spend 20 minutes doing familiarization with the craft... they all do have a general start-up procedure thought with that said. How sweet would that be - having your buds trying to hold off zombies while you are preping for takeoff? :D

I know in the MOD they have update plans to be able to have the zombies pull you from cars, hit you in cars, and thus making auto glass replacements a more necessary thing.

[private_joker 24]

I like this. Same kind of reasoning that sniper physics should be super realistic.

-Joker