Don't even make third-person an option for DayZ standalone

[master11388 23]

how about locking the alt button for 3rd person?

[Wep0n 532]

i understand the problem. third person is so easily exploitable, BUT first person has many disadvantages aswell.

the biggest one is the field of view. the average person doesnt have a FOV of 90 degrees, but instead it is almost 180 degrees. third person comes alot closer to the natural FOV whitout distorting the whole screen. (it also prevents motion sickness)

so if you want to make the game purely first person view, make it good!

a person should be able to see a realistic amount of his surrounding (high FOV, whitout much distortion), aswell as to be able to carefully look over edges. (looking over cover whitout having to completly stand up)

I support that first person idea in general, but it really needs to be polished. otherwise i would not see the reason in joining a server which has third person deactivated.

Edited January 5, 2013 by Wep0n

[plrsniper 87]

Or they can just force the game into third person and veteran so you don't have any crosshairs. No scoping and no iron sights. Let's all run around with hatchets!

In fact, make it so you select a character you want to attack and your character will aim at the other for you, convert it into a top down shooter. Let's add leveling and unique gear that gives +20 mana. You can now cast a spell on another player giving them blindness or posion damage.

Introduce dragons and swords and priests and druids. Let you morph into a rabbit (without a hacker doing it for you) and give you a new ability where you launch across 50 meters to bite another player in the neck.

Oooh oooh oooh and make a flamethrower and add nukes. And i want tanks too, and mounts that fly and i want to paint my weapon and errh, guilds?

And if i don't want PvP there should be an option to not be in PvP. You cannot be hurt by other players and you cannot hurt them. And zombies are too OP now so give me a minigun please.

OBVIOUSLY I AM BEING EXTREMELY SARCASTIC AND NOTHING I WROTE APPLIES...

[ImageCtrl 719]

... the problem...

the biggest one is the field of view. the average person doesnt have a FOV of 90 degrees, but instead it is almost 180 degrees.

This argument is soooo constructed. You can move your head independently of the body, this is not possible in any other game.

Comon,

the average person doesnt have a FOV of 90 degrees

VS

third person is so easily exploitable, attacker wins every battle with HE/granades, first see someone = battle won (at least in cities)

[Carnifex (DayZ) 1]

I think the first person adds to the immersion and makes things feel more claustrophobic which is the only reason I ever use it because the 3rd person is just so much more practical. It's really a tough choice for me as to which I prefer. When I play DayZ I tend to do so for over 4 hours at a time and switching to 3rd person is the only way I am able to do so without getting dizzy!

[Pomegranate 83]

the average person doesnt have a FOV of 90 degrees, but instead it is almost 180 degrees.

[citation needed]

[Wep0n 532]

So the only way is either to to limit TP so it doesn't provide any exploits, or to fix FP so it has decent FOV and nonirritating headbobbing and keep tp only for the character menu or the campfire..

you nailed it WiFiN

This argument is soooo constructed. You can move your head independently of the body, this is not possible in any other game.

Comon,

the average person doesnt have a FOV of 90 degrees

VS

third person is so easily exploitable, attacker wins every battle with HE/granades, first see someone = battle won (at least in cities)

you underestimate the FOV problem, but generally i agree with you. I support first person view in general, but as carnifex already mentioned, the limited FOV really matters and just gives me a headache, thats why i cant play first person for too long....

currently i think we should not remove third person servers from the game, since first person view feels broken. the way i see the world in third person feels alot more natural and organic, i also get a feel if im in cover or not.

First person defenitely needs some improvements before i can enjoy it.

i am very concerned about the third person exploit, and that is why im happy that this discussion exists. we need to find a way to fix this. Maby even find a way where third person gets limited in such a way, that exploiting will not be possible anymore. for example by moving the camera closer to the person, or limiting camera movement when lying on the ground. (when lying on a roof not being able to move the camera further to see whats on the ground)

I think the first person adds to the immersion and makes things feel more claustrophobic which is the only reason I ever use it because the 3rd person is just so much more practical. It's really a tough choice for me as to which I prefer. When I play DayZ I tend to do so for over 4 hours at a time and switching to 3rd person is the only way I am able to do so without getting dizzy!

same here

[citation needed]

a simple way to find this out is by moving your arms away from you (180 degrees). as soon as you start moving them closer towards your field of view (forward) you will very soon notice your arms moving in, which is very close from 180 degrees. now that is the normal view someone has. drunk people usually have a limited FOV, something around 90 degrees, and i defenitely dont want to feel drunk when i play a game.

by simply adding a FOV bar in the dayZ menu, and implementing a good FOV mechanism which doesnt make the game look trippy, we are one step closer to make first person more enjoyable.

Edited January 5, 2013 by Wep0n

[St. Jimmy 1631]

As it was said over 9000 before it's not about using TP to shoot, it's about exploiting it to look far over fences, around the corners, off the ledges.

Agree.

In this game staying hidden and seeing your enemy before he sees you is crucial and TP ruins this mechanic remorselessly.

So the only way is either to to limit TP so it doesn't provide any exploits...

Agree. I'm not sure how's possible but if possible then it's cool.

or to fix FP so it has decent FOV and nonirritating headbobbing

You can already adjust your FOV. I put mine 100 or 110 (I don't remember) and I've very very near the same FOV as in 3rd person without exploiting.

About that head bob IMO it is very minimal when the slider is 0. There's hardly any wave/bobbing.

and keep tp only for the character menu or the campfire..

Agreed.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

That kind of test doesn't exactly work, your brain keeps track of a cohesive model of what is around you based on past knowledge. A simple example is to do this test and shake your fingers, you won't be able to see your fingers move at some point, yet the arm is still there. Likewise, if i present a colored object (picked from 2-3 identically shaped objects) you won't be able to tell me it's color until it enters the front part of your field of view.

I don't understand this whole "field of view is too tight in FPV" argument, it's the same for every players. Yes it allows players to sneak on you and there is no reasons not to reward a player that manages to get this close from you undetected.

[finkone 320]

So its settled - keep it as it is. First person view servers - if thats your freakin' cup of tea GO THERE. If there ain't a lot of players, maybe it sucks then. I want my wider field of view.

[Wep0n 532]

I don't understand this whole "field of view is too tight in FPV" argument, it's the same for every players. Yes it allows players to sneak on you and there is no reasons not to reward a player that manages to get this close from you undetected.

sure sneaky players should be rewarded, but having such a small FOV just cripples everyone! if someone comes from left IRL, i see that guy, whitout having to shake my head in all directions every second. please look at this picture

as you can clearly see, the full picture does not only look alot better, but you also have a realistic overview of the whole area. you do not feel like a half blind person anymore, and the headache is gone.

a sneaky person can still surprise you realistically, and you do not have to break your neck every second just to make sure there is no one right aside of you.

a small FOV just feels like shit, and i feel like a drunk guy who does not register his surroundings at all.

and all you people telling me that i can look around in the game, well thank you alot for that obvious statement, but i do not want to rely on something, which shouldnt even be necessary!

if i look around, i want to see what is behind me, that is why i use numpad, and it should not be a cheap function just to be able to see the basic things right aside of you.

DayZ is alot about realism, and the FOV is part of it. if you want to convince people to switch to first person, you must fix it first so that it becomes enjoyable.

all i ask is for a simple FOV bar to adjust it, whitout having to look it up in the files and modify it.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

FOV in video games has traditionally been 90 degrees for a 4:3 display, while i can say that anything less than 75 is too narrow, 200 is ridiculous and i cannot support this. Do not sit with your nose glued to your screen is all i can say, if the image is warping along the edge your FOV is set too high. Your display is sitting in front of you, it is not designed to simulate peripheral view or it would have a much different shape.

My view is that because it's in the setting files doesn't mean you should fiddle with it, that's why games end up resorting to encrypted config files.

[finkone 320]

My view is if people want to use 3rd person and get a more enjoyable gaming experience out of it - let them.

Have servers with restricted options, that force these types of options, and that way the few that do seem to want this, get it.

Oh wait... this already a option.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

My view is if people want to use 3rd person and get a more enjoyable gaming experience out of it - let them.

Have servers with restricted options, that force these types of options, and that way the few that do seem to want this, get it.

Oh wait... this already a option.

At some point the devs have to decide what the game is going to be, it cannot be everything to everyone. You don't make a game just by piling together every single "requests" sent to you.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

^^This. Decisions have to be made regarding options, trying to design by commitee never succeeds.

[SoldierProject 82]

Nahh , i think 3rd Person is important for dayz.. they should just bock view when u stay behind wall and try to watch about corner (just example)

No 3rd Person would make it to survival Shooter , nahahnahnaanaha i won´t

[Heiduk 265]

For everyone claiming third person has a wider field of view. Have you actually compared it to first person? Here's a hint, they both have exactly the same field of view. The only difference is the position of the camera.

Although you can see a little more within a few 10s of meters of your avatar, past 100 meters or so the difference is negligible. See the attached screenshots where the blue approximately corresponds to the extra area you can see in third person. Note that the H barriers and targets are 50 m from the player.

Unless people are sneaking up on you by lying at your feet I don't see how third person helps much.

[finkone 320]

At some point the devs have to decide what the game is going to be, it cannot be everything to everyone. You don't make a game just by piling together every single "requests" sent to you.

Damn... I thought he was putting in every stupid idea that ever pop'd up... I thought that this is why the suggestion forum was created, so he could ... pick what he wants without looking at the communities input..

Rocket relies heavily on us for feedback. The majority of players opinions on 3rd person view is that its wanted. I feel more comfortable using this view, not sure why, but I do. Not to mention that for some odd reason I get a headache with FPV, EVEN WITH HEAD-BOB turned down.

No ones complaining about zombies being used to gauge a persons area or anything of that nature... yet since this main argument is about being able to use 3rd person to cheat, isn't using what I listed a worse method? Abusing another game mechanic to defect players is what this debate is about down to its core.

The amount of time I use to look over walls, over small hills, or around trees to track players using 3rd person view is a small percentage compared to using zombies to locate players. I often rely on sound.

Being in first person doesn't do anything for the horror feel of the game, I switch to first person when I'm about to get into a gun fight most the time because of the down time created in bringing up sights from 3rd.

Lastly - IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT. Having servers with options is not a bad thing. The select few that desire this type of restriction could play the game on the servers with the set terms they are interested with. I'm not saying work on every type of suggestion every type of person makes... thats retarded. I am however saying that the settings are there already, there are already servers that support FPV ONLY...

Lets try together...

IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT.

Edited January 5, 2013 by FinKone

[finkone 320]

For everyone claiming third person has a wider field of view. Have you actually compared it to first person? Here's a hint, they both have exactly the same field of view. The only difference is the position of the camera.

Although you can see a little more within a few 10s of meters of your avatar, past 100 meters or so the difference is negligible. See the attached screenshots where the blue approximately corresponds to the extra area you can see in third person. Note that the H barriers and targets are 50 m from the player.

Unless people are sneaking up on you by lying at your feet I don't see how third person helps much.

Those to photos I feel help make my point even more. peripheral vision. When I'm looking straight ahead, I should be able to see the ground closer to my area, to my right and my left. The blue'd out areas - almost grant a tunnel vision as compared to 3rd.

How a target could easily be missed because of a FPV restriction. Didn't move, just switched views - might not seem like a lot, but it is. Notice the black dot on the run-way... over 4 feet of view where added by changing view points, and thats on something thats very close.

In a real world situation - you are CLEARLY going to see that guy to your left, CLEARLY. Because this is a game, and we are pretty much looking through a small window (our monitor) to gather information, we are restricted in regards to a FPV...

Edited January 5, 2013 by FinKone

[plrsniper 87]

So its settled - keep it as it is. First person view servers - if thats your freakin' cup of tea GO THERE. If there ain't a lot of players, maybe it sucks then. I want my wider field of view.

Maybe you should think of the negative implications of keeping 3rd person as it currently is for a change. With 3rd person you can...

• Look over walls, down the sides of a building and around corners.
  
• Lie prone and still have a standing persons overview of the area.
  
• See people that are behind you where a normal person would have obstructions such as his backpack, weapon (on back) and shoulders.
  
• See outside vehicles so you don't back into something as you reverse.
  
• See directly below the helicopter as you go in for landing and have no obstructions from the cockpit.
  

So with those things still around DayZ will never be able to progress in situations where TP completely negates the danger of scouting (poking your head out) and allows you to remain completely hidden but see anyone else that leaves their cover.

To remove these issues (as has been suggested) you should not be able to see over walls, around corners, behind you etc. In other words, if you can't see it from FPV then you should not be able to see it from TP.

With FPV, the size of a gun does matter as you will have a bloody big blindspot there when deployed. But with TP you completely negate that balancing factor so now Rocket may not design a bloody big gun into the game just for that reason.

sure sneaky players should be rewarded, but having such a small FOV just cripples everyone! if someone comes from left IRL, i see that guy, whitout having to shake my head in all directions every second. please look at this picture

all i ask is for a simple FOV bar to adjust it, whitout having to look it up in the files and modify it.

FoV in first person, i can agree to some extent. I am not saying 200 FoV should be allowed but 120 would be ok. It really does become a problem when everybody is using insane FoV settings to be able to see BEHIND THEIR HEAD as if they where dogs or lizards.

My view is that because it's in the setting files doesn't mean you should fiddle with it, that's why games end up resorting to encrypted config files.

That's the only reason there are config files. Otherwise all configs would be in some sort of database format or stored on the internet. CoD BO2 encrypted their config files because they where too lazy to change how the core engine stored it's settings. It was the least effort to do that.

So why did they want to encrypt the settings file to begin with? Because they wanted everyone to play on the same settings of course. ArmA and DayZ is not like that.

[finkone 320]

Maybe you should think of the negative implications of keeping 3rd person as it currently is for a change. With 3rd person you can...

• Look over walls, down the sides of a building and around corners.
  
• Lie prone and still have a standing persons overview of the area.
  
• See people that are behind you where a normal person would have obstructions such as his backpack, weapon (on back) and shoulders.
  
• See outside vehicles so you don't back into something as you reverse.
  
• See directly below the helicopter as you go in for landing and have no obstructions from the cockpit.
  

So with those things still around DayZ will never be able to progress in situations where TP completely negates the danger of scouting (poking your head out) and allows you to remain completely hidden but see anyone else that leaves their cover.

To remove these issues (as has been suggested) you should not be able to see over walls, around corners, behind you etc. In other words, if you can't see it from FPV then you should not be able to see it from TP.

With FPV, the size of a gun does matter as you will have a bloody big blindspot there when deployed. But with TP you completely negate that balancing factor so now Rocket may not design a bloody big gun into the game just for that reason.

FoV in first person, i can agree to some extent. I am not saying 200 FoV should be allowed but 120 would be ok. It really does become a problem when everybody is using insane FoV settings to be able to see BEHIND THEIR HEAD as if they where dogs or lizards.

That's the only reason there are config files. Otherwise all configs would be in some sort of database format or stored on the internet. CoD BO2 encrypted their config files because they where too lazy to change how the core engine stored it's settings. It was the least effort to do that.

So why did they want to encrypt the settings file to begin with? Because they wanted everyone to play on the same settings of course. ArmA and DayZ is not like that.

Next your going to want Alt View to be removed... or restricted because it swivels to much.

... See above post. Gives players headaches so you can have a restricted view. No. Didn't read your reply all the way... to big.

Edited January 6, 2013 by FinKone

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

Didn't read your reply all the way... to big.

Then you probably don't mind if we ignore your replies i suppose?

[finkone 320]

At some point the devs have to decide what the game is going to be, it cannot be everything to everyone. You don't make a game just by piling together every single "requests" sent to you.

Then you probably don't mind if we ignore your replies i suppose?

I wish you would - since you don't seem to make many useful replies in the first place. :thumbsup: :emptycan:

Snip'in a small section of my rant post to make it seem like I didn't at least state something in my post, well thats just rude.

Stating it gave me a headache is a big game breaker - seeing as its on the relative same engine.

Nite.

[naizarak 41]

first-person only is a must. in a game built around immersion where death carries such a harsh penalty, using 3rd person is basically cheating.

btw try looking through the settings config once in a while, you might notice a setting called "head bob" that can be turned off completely. also it's possible to tweak the mouse settings to give the game a more responsive, snappy feel. and not to mention a fov tweak that gives you an enhanced field of vision.

[finkone 320]

first-person only is a must. in a game built around immersion where death carries such a harsh penalty, using 3rd person is basically cheating.

btw try looking through the settings config once in a while, you might notice a setting called "head bob" that can be turned off completely. also it's possible to tweak the mouse settings to give the game a more responsive, snappy feel. and not to mention a fov tweak that gives you an enhanced field of vision.

For the last time - even with it turned all the way off, head-bob that is, I still get a headache as others have supported. I shouldn't have to "tweak" my fov - wouldn't that give me a advantage over someone not ... tweaking? :D