High caliber weapons

[flower (DayZ) 12]

I say high caliber weapons with regards to sniper weapons should be limited to the cz550, m24 and svd. The rest take no skill and makes the gameplay unchallenging and frustrating. Thoughts?

[Mos1ey 6301]

I'd like this. Or at least make all the military gear so rare that it was really uncommon for someone to actually have all the best gear at one time. It does make sense for the high-end gear to be there with Chernarus being a post-soviet state with loads of military bases though.

[bluecrackers 175]

I find the problem tends to be there are too few "tiers" of weaponry. You have your few civilian weapons, then you make a huge leap to mid tier military weapons and it isn't much further until you get to the high end military weapons. The number of military weapons vastly outweigh the civilian weapons. What we need is a lot more new weapons added to the game that fit into more "tiers". Right now dayz has all of about 40 different weapons, a lot of them being m4/m16 variants. I think at least 200 new weapons should be added each with varying degrees of power and usefulness.

[maxnmike 134]

I was just wondering, were/are the Russian people allowed to have guns in their homes like Americans? If not then perhaps there should actually be fewer civilian weapons and more military weapons laying around.

This is an honest question because I really don't know what the availability of civilian weapons would be to the average Russian. Or would most of the weapons be surplus military weapons? Perhaps someone with this knowledge could let us know.

[-Gews- 7443]

I don't see a problem with including the big .50s, even now, but I think a shot to the leg or arm shouldn't kill. I mean, shot in the hand and dead - what? They should just cause you to bleed a lot faster from those locations. Of course that's a problem with ArmA 2's mechanics.

I also think most of the weapons need a bump in damage since the nerf, and it shouldn't ALWAYS take 2 chest shots to kill with, say, an Enfield or what-have-you. There should be some kind of percentage involved.

Also if we were heading for realism, the CZ550 would deal awesome damage and be a one-shot kill because (-a-) it's chambered in 9.3x62mm, which has almost 1.5 times the energy of the standard 7.62x51mm, and ( -b-) it's a hunting rifle, so it would obviously use expanding ammunition, which would increase damage exponentially.

Edited December 9, 2012 by Gews

[DiazWaffleCrabstro 39]

it has already been a couple of years the practise of US military to adopt the same ratio of snipers / riflemen as the soviets had during the cold war, so the 50 cals would be relatively easy to find.

I don't see a problem with including the big .50s, even now, but I think a shot to the leg or arm shouldn't kill. I mean, shot in the hand and dead - what? They should just cause you to bleed a lot faster from those locations. Of course that's a problem with ArmA 2's mechanics.

I also think most of the weapons need a bump in damage since the nerf, and it shouldn't ALWAYS take 2 chest shots to kill with, say, an Enfield or what-have-you. There should be some kind of percentage involved.

Also if we were heading for realism, the CZ550 would deal awesome damage and be a one-shot kill because (-a-) it's chambered in 9.3x62mm, which has almost 1.5 times the energy of the standard 7.62x51mm, and ( -b-) it's a hunting rifle, so it would obviously use expanding ammunition, which would increase damage exponentially.

A shot to leg or arm shouldnt kill with one shot? have you seen the combat videos of the 50 cal being shot to a persons torso? one shot can cut a person in half,so your telling me if you get shot to an arm and rips half of it off, that with all the bloodloss you would still live... sure right... wait i just need to stop laughing here Mr. superman.

Edit: for claritys sake, it is not the bullet that does the tearing, but the shock that follows it.

Edited December 9, 2012 by DiazWaffleCrabstro

[-Gews- 7443]

A shot to leg or arm shouldnt kill with one shot? have you seen the combat videos of the 50 cal being shot to a persons torso? one shot can cut a person in half,so your telling me if you get shot to an arm and rips half of it off, that with all the bloodloss you would still live... sure right... wait i just need to stop laughing here Mr. superman.

I should have clarified, I meant "shouldn't kill instantly". Like I said there should be rapid blood loss. It feels unrealistic to be shot in the foot and fall down stone dead. I don't think standard .50 ball would cut someone in half; there are many people who have survived being hit in various places by .50s. If a man was cut in half they must have been using explosive rounds like Raufoss. I saw a video where someone tested .50 FMJ on a dead deer and it produced a nearly fist-sized hole.

[DemonGroover 8836]

When duping is fixed then i dont see a problem with having high end military gear found in some locations. Why wouldnt you find this stuff in an Army base?

Just make them ultra rare and the ammo rarer. Also make sniping from 800m more difficult and reliant on other factors appart from bullet drop (wind etc). Make it difficult so that you have to weigh up the pros and cons of firing the weapon.

[DiazWaffleCrabstro 39]

I should have clarified, I meant "shouldn't kill instantly". Like I said there should be rapid blood loss. It feels unrealistic to be shot in the foot and fall down stone dead. I don't think standard .50 ball would cut someone in half; there are many people who have survived being hit in various places by .50s. If a man was cut in half they must have been using explosive rounds like Raufoss. I saw a video where someone tested .50 FMJ on a dead deer and it produced a nearly fist-sized hole.

As far as being an instant kill, your saying you could use the bandages in game to patch yourself up, when your gushing enough blood to pass out in aprox 30 seconds, and die within a minute, cood luck with that mate. Also as far as the bullet cutting a man in half, as i said, it is not the bullet itself doing it, it is the sheer shock that follows it, and it can happen no matter what bullets your using with the weapon, saying you "saw a video of someone testing, does not equal what happens everytime you shoot it" also yeah, .50 cal pistol rounds are small in comparison to the rifle rounds, and when civilians mentioned it is most likely the pistol round. If you do not believe me about man getting cut in half...The reason a .50 cal cut a person in half is due to a process called cavitation, nothing will happen ofcourse unless the bullet hits, when it does, the cavitation created by the sheer kinetic energy, will make your insides expand rapidly, there is also one such case witnessed by a snipers team in afganistan, the video was viral for a short time and tried to find it from youtube, but the ones i find keep telling me they are "private videos". So, i recommend you go and look what cavitation means, and happens with cavitation when the mass the object is going through suddenly changes thickness. And yes i used a wrong word, the word i should have used rather was Blown in half, due to rapid expansion of your innards by a .50 cal foreign object entering your body and supersonic speeds.

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

Edit: for claritys sake, it is not the bullet that does the tearing, but the shock that follows it.

The bullet has a lot to do with it. There are way too many variations of bullets, compositions, velocity etc to go into detail. Whether a bullet expands, fragments, or stays together upon impact plays a huge role in the damage done. (also to include yawing and tumbling)

Also pistols chambered in .50 caliber are the same diameter of a .50 caliber rifle round. They do not however have the same length, cartridge powder, or fired from a long barrel like a rifle. .50 Caliber Pistol rounds will fire around 1200fps. .50 Caliber Rifle rounds around 3,000 fps.

It is an incredibly lethal weapon either way and there are instances of people having surviving after being shot by them, but it all depends on where they were shot I would think. Not really something that is designed to fragment, so if it goes in and doesn't hit any vital organs, bone, etc... Then it should be all tissue/muscle and back out again with little resistance and thus survivable.

I would like to see better hit detection in this game. A shot to the shoulder will not break your leg, and as mentioned a shot to the foot shouldn't kill you. Though I don't foresee your foot surviving a .50 BMG hit, and I doubt this game will adopt an amputation/etc path but would rather just have your character die and restart.

Edited December 10, 2012 by Dreygar

[DiazWaffleCrabstro 39]

The bullet has a lot to do with it. There are way too many variations of bullets, compositions, velocity etc to go into detail. Whether a bullet expands, fragments, or stays together upon impact plays a huge role in the damage done. (also to include yawing and tumbling)

Also pistols chambered in .50 caliber are the same diameter of a .50 caliber rifle round. They do not however have the same length, cartridge powder, or fired from a long barrel like a rifle. .50 Caliber Pistol rounds will fire around 1200fps. .50 Caliber Rifle rounds around 3,000 fps.

It is an incredibly lethal weapon either way and there are instances of people having surviving after being shot by them, but it all depends on where they were shot I would think. Not really something that is designed to fragment, so if it goes in and doesn't hit any vital organs, bone, etc... Then it should be all tissue/muscle and back out again with little resistance and thus survivable.

I would like to see better hit detection in this game. A shot to the shoulder will not break your leg, and as mentioned a shot to the foot shouldn't kill you. Though I don't foresee your foot surviving a .50 BMG hit, and I doubt this game will adopt an amputation/etc path but would rather just have your character die and restart.

The blowing a man to half has to do with the cavitation of a kinetic object, changing the material it travels through to a more dense one, and the shock created by it, I keep my statement and trust what the Marine cor has witnessed on multiple accounts, the bullet itself has little to do with the end result, if the world of physics suddenly lost the rules that allow cavitation, a center mass hit would not result in nothing else but a fist sized hole in the back, and a .50 cal hole in the front.

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

The blowing a man to half has to do with the cavitation of a kinetic object, changing the material it travels through to a more dense one, and the shock created by it, I keep my statement and trust what the Marine cor has witnessed on multiple accounts, the bullet itself has little to do with the end result, if the world of physics suddenly lost the rules that allow cavitation, a center mass hit would not result in nothing else but a fist sized hole in the back, and a .50 cal hole in the front.

This is a full metal jacket, designed to penetrate.

These are jacketed hollow points, designed to expand. Also note that while expanding these bullets are still rotating and basically lacerating everything in their path.

Just showing the differences in what a bullet can do.

Edited December 10, 2012 by Dreygar

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

A comparison with a .50 BMG.

Note that the projectile fragments, and you can see the massive damage that ensues. This was done using Hornady's A-Max ammunition. I'm not really familiar with that and how those rounds are designed.

All in all, energy, velocity, bullet construction, etc... They all play important factors on what you want to engage, and that is why there are so many variations of ammunition.

[DiazWaffleCrabstro 39]

Dreygar i know what the different bullets do, please dont take me for an idiot as i am not taking you, what i am saying is the effect witnessed by marines(mans mid section innards blown out, blowing him in half) was due to the cavitation process which in turn relates to the kinetic energy, which in turn has less to do with the bullet than the range it was shot from, considering it was an unarmored, soft target. IF he was wearing a west, effect would have propably been less violent atleast seemingly, but the innards would have still expanded rapidly due to the process of cavitation, basically making hes center mass right below rib cage a mush.

Edited December 11, 2012 by DiazWaffleCrabstro

[UmBe 125]

In my oppinion High caliber rifles should be balanced by the rarity of the ammo and the Noise they create when fired.

Also a .50 Shot in the vicinity of any (Big) settlement should put in a very undesirable Situation.

[Dreygar (DayZ) 178]

Dreygar i know what the different bullets do, please dont take me for an idiot as i am not taking you, what i am saying is the effect witnessed by marines(mans mid section innards blown out, blowing him in half) was due to the cavitation process which in turn relates to the kinetic energy, which in turn has less to do with the bullet than the range it was shot from, considering it was an unarmored, soft target. IF he was wearing a west, effect would have propably been less violent atleast seemingly, but the innards would have still expanded rapidly due to the process of cavitation, basically making hes center mass right below rib cage a mush.

You still fail to acknowledge that bullet composition, type, powder charge, etc all affect ft/lbs energy and velocity of each individual cartridge. You can see in the examples I gave above how bullet types affect cavitation, etc.

[m.w. vindicator 880]

In my oppinion High caliber rifles should be balanced by the rarity of the ammo and the Noise they create when fired.

Also a .50 Shot in the vicinity of any (Big) settlement should put in a very undesirable Situation.

I agree. 12.7x109 weapons and .50cal (12.7x99 NATO) should exist. Ammo should be so rare that a box a 10 rounds would be very hard to find. If all the 50cal gunners had less ammunition they would be less willing to waste it on costal noobs and they would save it against cars, and bandits at long distances.

I would also love to see simple ragdoll and dismemberment

[DiazWaffleCrabstro 39]

You still fail to acknowledge that bullet composition, type, powder charge, etc all affect ft/lbs energy and velocity of each individual cartridge. You can see in the examples I gave above how bullet types affect cavitation, etc.

i seriously thought you were going for the "can only happen with Al tip or explosive round" my bad then.

[-Gews- 7443]

Oh, also, they need to rework the sound for the big .50s. Especially the AS50

[UmBe 125]

Oh, also, they need to rework the sound for the big .50s. Especially the AS50

Yes The AS50 Sounds like a toy gun

[enforcer1975 1111]

I'd like this. Or at least make all the military gear so rare that it was really uncommon for someone to actually have all the best gear at one time. It does make sense for the high-end gear to be there with Chernarus being a post-soviet state with loads of military bases though.

Russia and high end gear...opposites :D

Edited December 14, 2012 by Enforcer

[DiazWaffleCrabstro 39]

All american components, all russian components,