The Symbiotic relationship between "Carebears" and "Bandits"

[dekartz 315]

The best way to discover the nature of a person is how they act in a situation where there are no consequences for their actions. Day Z is an interesting example of this. You have people who immediately chose to become bandits, gunning down their fellow survivor for sport or profit. Then on the other end of the spectrum you have medics, those willing to risk themselves to assist their fellow survivors. In many cases the behavior of those on the opposing side of the spectrum is unthinkable or inexcusable to those on the opposite end of the spectrum. But one has to ask: Could bandits really exist without "carebears"?

The knowledge that there are people out and about who help others brings a certain level of hesitance (to newcomers at least) in violent action upon encountering other players. Sometimes the hesitance results in an uneasy alliance, other times it's just a brief few seconds of delay before they shoot you and loot your stuff. But things like this are part of what make banditry possible. Even some established veterans haven't adopted a KOS-mentality despite having seen the various examples of betrayal and the like within DayZ. Without this hesitance, banditry itself would become far more difficult. One couldn't use the ambush tactics frequented by many bandits as the immediate response would be people looking to kill them and take their things. The simple idea of altruism is part of why Banditry is so successful.

But on the same token: Could "carebears" exist without bandits? Zombies can be a threat, yes. But with nothing but cooperation, they'd be even less of a threat than they are now. One could fire off weapons to their heart's content, unworried about revealing their presence. This wreckless gameplay would likely cater to medics initially, but eventually things would become routine. The only difficult moments of the game would be that fresh green spawn where you don't know anyone and no one knows you. Sure, some people would roleplay but eventually lethargy would set in and people would seek new avenues of entertainment. This isn't even accounting for "Regulators", "Taxi's" and all those other 'tweeners on the spectrum.

So, what are your thoughts? Concerns? Corrections? Recipes for chicken soup?

[jaytmuk (DayZ) 621]

Making the zombies alot more of a threat would deter banditry and give potential bandits something to kill other than carebears, hey they would probably need the carebears then :)

[dekartz 315]

Actually, chances are it would make banditry all the more viable an option. "If I don't get 'em, the zombies will."

[ahorseofcourse 22]

Bandits and PVP are the heart of this game, those who want that to change are playing the wrong game or are just bad at organizing with friends.

The biggest problem with players (not the game) is they jump into a server solo and try and make friends. They TRUST random people and die because of it 80% of the time. They give away their position in chat trying to meet up with people and complain when they're killed. They play stupidly.

Trust is earned, not a handout.

Edited November 10, 2012 by ahorseofcourse

[fathairybeast 246]

Actually, chances are it would make banditry all the more viable an option. "If I don't get 'em, the zombies will."

Actually, you made that sound like fact as opposed to conjecture. A lot of people would disagree with that assertion - including the developer of the mod.

[BelMarduk 169]

Bandits and PVP are the heart of this game, those who want that to change are playing the wrong game or are just bad at organizing with friends.

The biggest problem with players (not the game) is they jump into a server solo and try and make friends. They TRUST random people and die because of it 80% of the time. They give away their position in chat trying to meet up with people and complain when they're killed. They play stupidly.

Trust is earned, not a handout.

Surviving is the heart of the game. PvP and Banditry may be the heart of your game, but not the heart of the game. PvP and banditry are indeed part of surviving...

[Darkwater (DayZ) 63]

I have a love-hate relationship with Bandits myself. I hate them, but not all of them of course, for sniping outside Cherno/Elektro with AS50/M107's. It makes no sense and for most part it would be undoable if not for duping and abundancy of ammo/ammo replenishing bug. But I love them because I do feel they are crucial to the game setting and the fear that the Zeds clearly fail to cause in us players.

I'm a "carebear" protector, so to speak. I hunt and kill Bandits "exclusively". I have failed and killed a few Ghillie and Camo wearing people that weren't Bandits, but I just don't trust anyone wearing them as it hides their true intentions from me. And yes, that means I have sniped them out solely based on my general impression, not because they have posed as a threat or even seen towards me, but every time I feel awful and especially back when the Debugger was there and I could see it as a Murder. Based on how I do just that it's hypocritical of me to whine about KOS in any city really.

I try to keep my killings well thought out and rarely engage groups where there's Survivor skins amongst them, especially if there's a Hero, even if there's Bandits there too. In such cases I try to stalk them as far as I can before I either judge them non-bandits, they slip away from my range or I start taking the shots. But sadly it's been days now since I last encountered players outside Cherno and Elektro.. even on 60 man servers that were full up. It's boiled down to deathmatch games close to the shore.. or I could just have been unlucky.

[ahorseofcourse 22]

BelMarduk, you're right, surviving is the heart of the game. That comes at the cost of enduring your environment as it is presented and bandits are a crucial obstacle of the environment (I'm just adding to this point, i'm not being defensive). A survivor can run forever from zombies, zig zag through trees and lose them easily. Zombies are dumb, as they should be and pose very little threat to the player unless they are under specific conditions (broken leg, ran into a one entrance/exit building, shooting within a close proximity) whereas bandits are the true variable to survival. Bandits are unpredictable and less easily fooled than a mindless corpse. Without them, you would have a shooting gallery that would get old fast. There would be no danger in a group because someone could epipen and bloodbag you back to health, but under fire of a bandit, the whole situation would be comprimised. There would be no fear without bandits.

[dekartz 315]

Actually, you made that sound like fact as opposed to conjecture. A lot of people would disagree with that assertion - including the developer of the mod.

"Chances are" Is indicative of something being fact now?

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

I believe there are three sides to this story.

Hero mentality

Edited November 11, 2012 by Steak and Potatoes

[joeoblong@yahoo.com 614]

FFS! Doesn't anyone know the true meaning behind "Carebear" anymore? I get ya, all bandits are hardcore, except the carebear bandits! Oh whats that Pen!? You're dumb... there are no carebear bandits!!! Thats an oxymoron. Dummy! Ummm no the morons are the ones using "carebear" as a description of someone who doesn't pvp or isn't a bandit. In fact a Anti and/or Medic is less off a carebear then bandits! Although carebear is the wrong term there... more hardcore yes! Mules and just people who play to have fun, softcore? (i prefer player)

Carebear is a term crafted to insult those who wanted a feature of a game removed,changed, or punished, so they could have an easier time. It is not a description of someone who isn't a bandit. This has become lost over the years and those who didn't live it, use it as a general negative description for those who choose to just play, or have some in game morals.

This has been a public rant service announcement by Pendragon.

[fathairybeast 246]

"Chances are" Is indicative of something being fact now?

Initially I didn't plan to respond to your thread because I know your type: you argue simply to argue. But I got impulsive and proved my intuition correct in the process. You were stating an opinion as fact, deal with it. Don't worry, your intellectual penis size is safe with me.

[ZomboWTF 527]

How did carebears get into the game? i thought they were mining in EVE

[Rivy 32]

I don't think that's "symbiotic" if one playergroup could have fun without the other. It's more like a parasitic relationship if you ask me.

[thelonewarrior 886]

Im neither a carebear nor a bandit, i live happily on neautral ground.

I only kill bandit skins unless I have good information those near me are killing other players.

The game needs all kinds if players to survive, without medics and good people the game would be nothing but kill on sight and then you may as well remove the zeds.

Without bandits it would get boring yes, but having something like 95% of players as bandits just tips the scales way too much.

I feel it needs to be a 50/50 balance, ive seen bandits accept medical aid from heroes on side chat offering transfusions, and the bandit goes on his merry way without shooting the medic.

Everyone needs help at some point in this game, im sure there are more than a few bandits that KOS who have found themselves wandering around gatherng beans after being shot thinking 'if only someone was nice enough to help me, i might just let them go their own way'

but deep down they know thats never going to happen unless they are extremely lucky to find a nice person

Edited November 11, 2012 by Regulator Lone Warrior

[BT_Fae_HB 24]

so called carebearers play their game, bandits force people into their game, I think that's where the problem sits, a sniper camping the hills has nothing to worry about except when to log on and off to replenish their ammo.

Guns and bullets need to be made a rarity and z's need to be more dangerous then both side have something to worry about.

[CombatWombat (DayZ) 63]

The game is what you make of it, I hate it when people always claim that their way of playing the game IS the way of playing the game. Some people play this in different ways, for example, myself being a BF veteran enjoy the PvP aspects of the game, while I know some of my other friends enjoy surviving on maps such as Namalsk for a little more of a challenge. There is no right or wrong way to play any game, some options are just more moral than others.

[Cryptic_Equinox 5]

I'm a hero/medic.

If bandits didnt exist, i wouldnt get the rush of running up to a person and healing them, since i'd just always know they'd be nice.

Us good guys need a rush every once in a while too >:P

[OrLoK 16182]

Hello there

Carebears and Bandits are mutually exclusive, if one must use the terms.

Although the game *would* be simpler without bandits. Would it still be playable without them? For some, yes others no.

Rgds

LoK

[dallas 5195]

DayZ is a place where cooperative players and competitive players are forced together, that's why social interactions are so advanced or at least can be. As a friendly player you can't just assume anyone you come across will allow you to hug them or let you mind your own business picking flowers or whatever. Any decent gamer can break down gameplay mechanics rather quickly, so everything DayZ throws at you will become predictable over time. Player interactions will never be predictable and will keep coop-oriented players on their toes.

This also applies to bandits, they can develop their own morals, whether they kill for loot, kill for sport or take even higher risks by trying to rob players at gunpoint or make elaborate schemes to build trust, only to back stab their naive new friend. DayZ is not just a shooter for bandits, they can use the player interactions to spring advanced traps and test the humanity to the bring of their treehugging, peaceloving counterparts.