The goal in Dayz should be survive, not pvp

[ElysionField 7]

I am not a native English speaker. Please forgive if I make any mistake.

Although Dayz is considered as a zombie survival game, I think Dayz is designed for pvp.

Look at all the weapons in Dayz. Once you get a hatchet and a handgun, you are in a very good shape against zombies.

The rest of the weapons, like sniper rifles with night vision attachment, machine guns etc, are DESIGNED to kill players. You don't need a high power sniper to kill zombies. When zombies is not a threat anymore, basically there is nothing else to do beside killing other players.

In my ideal Dayz world, zombie is the main point. They should be very hard to kill and post a serious threat to players. Even a military grade weapon should just give you a little bit more advantage against zombies.

Also, every survivor should be different. Everyone in Dayz now is highly trained: They are all expert in shooting, running, cooking, wound care and flying helicopters. My suggestion is each survivor may have some type of advantage. If your wound is taken care by a surgeon instead of your friend, you have way less chance of getting infected. Also, a surgeon should be the only one can fix a serious trauma. Go even further, Certain survivors can have a special ability that no other survivors can have. For example, a cheer leader can increase teammates' stamina (a cheer leader can be stuck in a zombie apocalypse.) A wrestler can scare zombies away by tearing his shirt in front of the zombies....etc

I am not saying my idea is the best. I don't even say my ideas are good ideas. But sometime even bad ideas can inspire someone else coming up with a really good idea. (eg. House)

So, any ideas to stop Dayz turning into a pure PVP shooting game?

Or first of all, do you even care if Dayz turns into a PVP shooting game?

[brachra 112]

This is always said, I agree with you, but i want to add some points.

PvP should stay if it has MEANING

i.e. If you have an axe, And your starving/thirsty/dieing, and im clearly decked out in Gear and have a bunch of stuff? By all means...try to rob me, take what i have. I would

If you are a lone wolf, and you see a bunch of tents guarded by 3 people, and you have the drop on them? sure! Call out, tell them to lay down and turn away or be shot, if they move? kill them.

Robbing people, surviving, All of that. Great!

what needs to stop is NOT PvP, but rather, Pointless "LULKills" Pvp,

for example

-You spawn in, someone snipes you off of spawn

-You are clearly harmless, trying to run AWAY from town, Newbie finds gun, Newbie shoots you in back of head, passes your corpse (clearly not to loot it) and "Lol's" on his way by.

-Someone asks for help, You are friends for a good half hour, Youve been through shit together, survived the thick of it, they get bored or Antsy and kill you and take your shit and leave.

So in essence, The PvP doesnt need to change, The People do...I cant imagine Anybody wants to play a Pvp Shooter with an enormous map, an eating function, and a thirst meter....

Because in reality? If you turned PvP off, DayZ would get very very very boring Extremely fast, You would be able to walk around, Find food, find water, find guns, kill zombies.

thats it.. go play Left4Dead

but if you leave it as is, and try to prevent Mindless grief killing....Sure! im all for it.

(and yes, Pointless killing with the intent to Annoy others does happen) no matter how much some of you extreme die-hard fans try to say it doesnt.

I prefer survival, I love that bandits will roam, I love getting robbed, being forced to surrender my things and sent on my way to parts unknown...

Anyway, tired and rambling, but my point got across i hope

*and also* ZOMBIES should be harder, a bigger threat, and a big part of the game so if someone does want to shoot on sight? Their gunshot should call a horde, causing them to have one of the most epic firefights with a player, and fighting off zombies at the same time. calls for some epic times right there!!

*last edit* Noooooo on the "wrestler can tear shirt and scare zombies thing" seriously? Even the most "childish" Version of the zombie virus, whether it be Infection, rage, virus, disease, death, necromancy, ritualistic, mind control drugs, etc. No "wrestler" is going to be scary enough to stop the Raging undead, or the Rage infected living......really....

*final final edit* yeah..no on the cheerleader, Nobody would stand in a zombie apocalypse cheering on someone in catchy tune...it just doesnt, and wouldnt happen....

Edited October 19, 2012 by Brachra

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

The whole point is that there is no goal. It's a world in which you need to survive and can live however you like. BTW, the standalone does have mechanics being introduced to encourage team-play and there will be A LOT more to do, so PVP will become less appealing.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Fraggle

[ElysionField 7]

To Brachra: I am NOT suggesting to turn PVP off. My point is, weapons in Dayz now is "designed" for mindless killing. Getting a better weapon won't give you a significant advantage in killing zombies, since they are way too weak, but in killing players.

The cheer leader and the wrestler are just kidding. My point is it would be nice if there are some co-op elements in the game.

The whole point is that there is no goal. It's a world in which you need to survive and can live however you like.

I agree. I just don't want gearing up and shooting at each other become the main purpose of the game.

BTW, the standalone does have mechanics being introduced to encourage team-play and there will be A LOT more to do, so PVP will become less appealing.

Wonderful. Sounds great!

Edited October 19, 2012 by ElysionField

[boxman80 964]

If you watch any good Zombie or post-appocalypse movie or read any good book from the genre you will see that the zombies and surviving the environment soon takes on a secondary role to surviving against other survivors. A big part of this genre is not only surviving against the environment but also watching out for the psychos and dangerous people who are around too. Therefore I think the PvP is quite appropriate within the game.

The way I think of it is naturally there are two types of people in these scenarios, those who simply wish to get by, doing what they do avoiding the zombies and surviving the elements - these in the movies or books are the good guys. THen there's the pyschos who just want to cause trouble and kill. These are the bad guys.

I hear what you are saying about the military grade weapons though and there are far too many of them in the game mostly due to all the scripting that goes on and with them it's far too easy for bandits and makes this play style far too tempting. I do think this will be addressed in stand alone better.

[TheBaby 61]

Like Fraggle said, there is no goal. I think we've all been a little pre-conditioned in how to play games with guns over the last however many years.

[Bludy 324]

the classess would limit pvp but only partially, because ok, if you are wounded you won't shoot a medic but ask for help, and if you see a mechanic and you aren't searching for a car, what's changed?

[Bat (DayZ) 230]

I don't really like the idea of skills, because I don't see how it would work in DayZ. What I'd rather see is adding more depth to the gameplay so that real life skills can be transfered in the DayZ world. For instance repairing cars could require some real life mechanic skills (Identify the broken parts by examining the vehicle). Surgery could require real medical skills to avoid an infection, or else you might do more damage to the patient. Using a weapon could require to learn how to clean it properly so it doesn't jam, etc....

All of those feature will require time to master properly, but it would be logical and obvious for people that are mechanic, surgeon, or have experience with weapons IRL.

Maybe it's going a little too far on the simulation side of the game, but hey DayZ is supposed to be hardcore isn't it ?

Edited October 19, 2012 by Bat

[SP45M 240]

Pvp is good.

Pvp against god mode scripters is bad.

That is all.

[enforcer1975 1111]

PvP should stay if it has MEANING

i.e. If you have an axe, And your starving/thirsty/dieing, and im clearly decked out in Gear and have a bunch of stuff? By all means...try to rob me, take what i have. I would

If you are a lone wolf, and you see a bunch of tents guarded by 3 people, and you have the drop on them? sure! Call out, tell them to lay down and turn away or be shot, if they move? kill them.

Most pvp encounters don't go that way which makes some players mad because in most times it's just senseless killing and not out of necessity. Ok i admit i sometimes do that if i am in a group and face another group, actually i let the others have it but i stay passive most of the time and try not to draw attention, i killed 2 players just yesterday while returning fire and the day before yesterday i was shot in the back while following an unarmed player because i was curious where he would go and maybe he needed help because he aggroed some Zeds, so i turned around to shoot back but it seems the player DCed after failing to injure me serious enough ( the makarov shot tickled a bit... ) and i lost a potential new buddy.

Most times it's just a "i see you i kill you" situation which is obviously not how most people think it should be played but are forced too because you can't get into talking distance when the guns talk first. A lot of people would love to interact..my buddies brought 4 players into our teamspeak they met and talked to in game...it works if you have the right people.

In the game players behave like that because there is no consequence in death, if it were a RL situation most wouldn't even come out to fight and rather run away and that's where pvpers and survivors collide. Pvpers mostly don't care about gear because they are backed up, survivors try to make the best of it and don't look for every piece of rare gear.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Enforcer

[sheepdawg 278]

Id just like to say of course the weapons(or should I say weepons ;p) in "DayZ" are people killers...it's a military sim. But I am not here to troll so let me also say that you are right, and so are others. Without a reason to team up(beside being stronger in numbers...or a bigger target) people wont. Let's be real. The only threat zombies pose in this game is to a fresh spawn. It is super easy to avoid zombies, even after aggro'ing 10+, by running through dense brush and houses.

Once the standalone comes out I have faith that Rocket and co will alleviate the mindless PvP via objectives. Of course people will still PvP but hopefully it will cool off.

I have a really hard time believing that even in a zombie apocalypse people would be so careless with other human life. Sure desperate people might, and dregs of previous civilized society would still be scummers, but the majority of people wouldn't kill a clearly uninfected human coming up on their base. I just really do not believe that. But that's real life and this is DayZ so yea.

I played on a private hive the other day and while i got needlessly assassinated by a bandit, I also came across 3 survivors who did not kill me. We just were in the same area, looting, surviving and coexisting, much the way people due today. Never made much sense to me why someone would kill someone for a handful of bullets and a soda and beans, when an additional person means higher security(if you trust them), more capacity, and higher ability be it cover more ground, assistance in a sticky situation whatever.

I think everyone(or most of us) can agree the PvP is SLIGHTLY out of control, slightly understandable, and slightly annoying. Can't wait for standalone!

[kebman 213]

PvP is part of the game, and I hope it stays that way. But it could become a lot more rewarding to cooperate a.k.a. survive against zombies if their spawning mechanics were changed completely. It would open op entirely new ways of playing the game while retaining total freedom otherwise.

Currently, the spawning mechanics for zombies makes the game impossible to be about survival. Instead the is about dodging zombies to get gear, so you can PvP. The main reason for this is that there exist no reasons to kill off zombies, except if you did something stupid in a dead end house and absolutely have to shoot yourself out. Other than that, shooting zombies is a total waste of bullets. You can't win that game - at least not the way the zombie spawning mechanics currently work.

Ergo......... (I kind like that word)

The zombie spawning mechanics absolutely have to change. The zombies must spawn independently of players, so that it becomes possible to clear an area and be reasonably sure that new threats will only come from outside. The way it is now, new zombies tend to spawn directly in front of my face, and they start spawning again immediately after I've shot a few.

That isn't to say that zombies will stop to indicate the presence of other players (a really important mechanic in a game with such a large map). Zombies will still wake up and gravitate towards smell, and aggro against noise or visible survivors, thus zombies in odd places, or odd zombie behaviour will still indicate the presence of other players.

This would possibly make PvP much more dynamic and rewarding, and give something more rewarding for the mindless sniper griefers to do, in turn making the game more rewarding and challenging for "regular" players. Instead og spawn killers, griefers would now act as defenders of towns or points of interest, thus giving them a place in DayZ as more than a mere annoyance.

[oppa (DayZ) 46]

Try our DayZRP Server.. no KoS allowed. And still people can have PvP - just read the rules :)

[Quaby 93]

All i heard about when it comes to new features in the standalone was underground bases. Arent those basically just camps? And yeah, a good way to foster teamplay is to limit the number of zombies that can spawn in a town in 30 minutes, instead of making zombie killing pointless and futile because, no matter how many you kill, five more will replace each one that falls. People generally KOS out of fear or for the fun of it, and seeing that most vehicles are hoarded in one spot on servers(even if you get one, what do you do? Drive around and kill people) the only fun thing to do on this game is to blow people to pieces. Maybe one way to help this problem(DayZ wasn''t supposed to be a deathmatch, there IS a problem) is to make the gearing-up phase last longer or maybe a way to find secret areas and learn more about what the hell happened in Chernarus. OR have zombies drop journals with little tidbits of info on the infection.

Also, the guns shouldn't be so obviously designed for PvP. Who needs an assault rifle with a thermal sight for zombies? As for snipers, I say make the SVD more common and remove some of the NATO ones-really, why would soldiers bring sniper rifles to kill zombies? Maybe if u find a Dragunov that was already in Chernarus, sure.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Quaby

[apache25 133]

cheerleaders not in russia. and this has been suggested hundrds of times

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

All i heard about when it comes to new features in the standalone was underground bases. Arent those basically just camps? And yeah, a good way to foster teamplay is to limit the number of zombies that can spawn in a town in 30 minutes, instead of making zombie killing pointless and futile because, no matter how many you kill, five more will replace each one that falls. People generally KOS out of fear or for the fun of it, and seeing that most vehicles are hoarded in one spot on servers(even if you get one, what do you do? Drive around and kill people) the only fun thing to do on this game is to blow people to pieces. Maybe one way to help this problem(DayZ wasn''t supposed to be a deathmatch, there IS a problem) is to make the gearing-up phase last longer or maybe a way to find secret areas and learn more about what the hell happened in Chernarus. OR have zombies drop journals with little tidbits of info on the infection.

Also, the guns shouldn't be so obviously designed for PvP. Who needs an assault rifle with a thermal sight for zombies? As for snipers, I say make the SVD more common and remove some of the NATO ones-really, why would soldiers bring sniper rifles to kill zombies? Maybe if u find a Dragunov that was already in Chernarus, sure.

The underground bases thing is a tad more than basically just camps, at least that is what they want. It's ambitious but I've seen talk of traps, hydroponics ect. and the possibility of it taking months if not years to build a substantial base. It's early dayZ but the plan is to make it a lot more than just a simple camp.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Fraggle

[exesgo@gmail.com 31]

The thing is, in end of the world situations, you will always have psychopaths.

Think of those who just kill for "lulz" as those psychopaths.

[juhnpls 4]

I think Rocket explained this well during his eurogamer expo powerpoint presentation. Where he said something along the lines of in the standalone he wants to really make it player vs world. Meaning it is harder to survive with added diseases, more areas where you can break bones, bad food etc. He also said it will hopefully round out the PvP aspect of the game which I agree with. If the game change so another player is no longer the biggest risk then I think PvP will decrease.

[joeoblong@yahoo.com 614]

Man I hate to be "THAT" guy here, but if there is a way to kill another player, players are going ot kill eachother. (For no other reason then they can) Now if there was no way to kill, this game will fail and be no fun. I am hopeful Rocket will be able to dial it in so everyone can enjoy his world. Zombies need to be a threat but if you think it'll cut back on the pvp you will be disappointed. I just pray he can add enough content those who despise pvp can have fun too! Otherwise the wolves will eat all the sheep until nothing is left but wolves. (or Rocket will nerf the wolves and they will leave) I will do as I do within the mod, hunt the wolves and try to impact the sheep in a positive way. I consider myself an apex predator and the wolves are my food. I just wish I had the skill to own those words! :D

Edited October 19, 2012 by Pendragon

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

in the beginning this was a coop survival game mostly./.

people tended to chat on site and team up..

then the asshats begin to filter in, and now its KoS as standard operating procedure..

shame really, this game was much much better early on, then whats left of the community now.

sadly i feel the SA will be just more of the same..i fear the team-up survival aspect is gone never to return

Edited October 19, 2012 by Siberian

[TheBaby 61]

in the beginning this was a coop survival game mostly./.

people tended to chat on site and team up..

then the asshats begin to filter in, and now its KoS as standard operating procedure..

shame really, this game was much much better early on, then whats left of the community now.

sadly i feel the SA will be just more of the same..i fear the team-up survival aspect is gone never to return

Whatever.

Seriously, people are going to play the game how they like. If you don't like it then, well, what are you going to do? How about we see what extra survival type stuff is going to land with the standalone before we talk about the good old days of DayZ?

As far as I can see all these complaints about pvp are people plainly whining about the fact that others just don't play as you want them to. Are you sure this is the game for you?

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

in the beginning this was a coop survival game mostly./.

people tended to chat on site and team up..

then the asshats begin to filter in, and now its KoS as standard operating procedure..

shame really, this game was much much better early on, then whats left of the community now.

sadly i feel the SA will be just more of the same..i fear the team-up survival aspect is gone never to return

I think in order for us "day one" hipsters not to be eternally depressed we need to accept that the game needs to evolve and improve. Rose tinted glasses and nostalgia are always great but the fact remains that in the early days this mod was barely playable unless you had the patience of a saint. I agree that there was a more visceral survival experience for some. Go and speak to some people that have only just started to play, that experience still exists, only nowadays you don't have to wait half an hour for a server slot to become available.

[Mr Nasty 1023]

I dont think its fair to call people asshats simply because they play KoS. Just as it wouldnt be fair if I called everyone who whined about PvP whiney little bitches.

KoS is an important part of the game as it stands now. It makes things more exciting. If you ran around without the fear of other players killing you the game would become mundane.

[campbelln97 4]

You need to remember DayZ is meant to be as real as possible and in real life once you've got the basic supplies zombies wouldn't be the problem it would be other people.

[cab435 0]

if you take out the pvp or even limit it then your taking out most of the survival part of dayz.

Zombies become easy to deal after a while the only real threat to you is other people.

This is realistic as it would be the same if zombies really did walk the earth. No one would be nice or help you its kill or be killed.

Someone would kill you for a pear of shoes or maybe a nicer pack to carry food in. The shit would hit the

Fan and it would be a blood bath.