Rocket I love you: Going out of bounds - exploit or acceptable?

[mikyjax 3]

I never found a chopper either.

But I always planed to do this if I find one, because it s the most interresting thing to do with choppers.

It s sad that some admin use their admin advantage to do it, but I m sure a lot of those clans up there made it legally, repairing ect.

I just don't complain about it because it s useless and logical. In an apocaliptic scenario, if you find a chopper (and are lucky enough to be able to fly it) you definitely have an advantage.

It s up to you to do what you want with it. You can build stuff and try creating a comunity and war other clans, you can fly it to help people like I saw on some post or you can fly the coast and shoot everything moving like I saw on some vids.

It s up to you, but the smartest is definitely the first option.

[haviv[3rdid] 57]

Just because land is uncharted on maps available in gamedoesn't mean it doesn't exist. And we do know that the out of bounds land does exist. Look at this map

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/52/ArmA2_Chernarus_factbook_map.jpg

The Chernarus that we play on is only a small part of Chernarus and then there's Russia.

Really, the only solution is to use a different map that's an island. But that means dayz 2

[okano666@hotmail.co.uk 81]

Problem is.

There are no Veichles anywhere on the map. The people who live in there moms basement already ran around everwhere collected them and moved them to an off map location where it is practically impossible to find. UNLESS you spent several months traveling with a team of 20 out in the 'desert' to find them. This includes all helicopters and off road vehicles.

So what you are doing is, duping all gear out there in tents. All you need is 1 tent atm to make 1000+ same with every other item. So there is no need to come back to the map.

Also you are avoiding any zombies or any other player encounter.

I mean if you want to play Hello Kitty Online or THE SIMS with your character why dont you just go play those games? You talk about war with other clans thinking your some kind of elite because you were 'organised' grabbed the first helicopter on the map u saw and moved it way off the map.

Stealing Vehicles off the map, avoiding any interaction with Zombies and other Players totally removes any DayZ gameplay at all.

I mean why are you even playing this game SERIOUSLY?

Like there are no other sandbox games out there?

Out of bounds of the map should be punishable by death if your out there for longer than a few minutes u should get a countdown. This game and the people that play it get more retarded by the day. Its a shame.

Of course they need to fix the spawning in Pre Deployment area first.

[RJLupin2 3]

I never found a chopper either.

But I always planed to do this if I find one' date=' because it s the most interresting thing to do with choppers.

It s sad that some admin use their admin advantage to do it, but I m sure a lot of those clans up there made it legally, repairing ect.

I just don't complain about it because it s useless and logical. In an apocaliptic scenario, if you find a chopper (and are lucky enough to be able to fly it) you definitely have an advantage.

It s up to you to do what you want with it. You can build stuff and try creating a comunity and war other clans, you can fly it to help people like I saw on some post or you can fly the coast and shoot everything moving like I saw on some vids.

It s up to you, but the smartest is definitely the first option.

[/quote']

This isn't about whether helicopters are fair, which they are. They are a game mechanic implemented intentionally. As far as we seem to know, the out of bounds area is unintentional. For all we know, they could be working to fix it as we speak. If that is the case, I believe it's expletive of players to use it right now.

If not, go hog wild.

[mikyjax 3]

Okano, you are talking about cheaters, I agree with you.

I m talking about regular player who HAVE to come back on the map.

Guys, dayz is awesome because of that, because it puts The sims players, cod players, dumb players, rts player together in a fucked up worlds

People are just yelling : go play cod, hello kitty, the sims ect... ok

So who the fuck will stay in the game?

You? bro, you gonna get bored.

What kind of player are you?

Mass killer? survivor? noob killer? solo player?

Tell me, so I know how the game should be played.

[ComboBreaker 9]

I would not have any problems with hiding stuff outside of the map bondaries if that meant that anyone in the game can still find a fresh broken vehicle inside normal map.

I have never encountered any *natural* vehicles inside normal DayZ's map(I've stolen a repaired motorcycle with an almost empty tank,but I think it belonged to someone before).Im starting to think that hiding vehicles outside of the map's borders causes a stop to the spawning of other vehicles.And this is bad.

Maybe number of vehicles on the server should not be limited?Or am I mistaking here and they still spawn and Im just unlucky?

[xBlackCat 1]

Having wilderness outside of the map is cool, though I think extreme cases of it are pretty exploit-y.

Having an invisible wall or something a few km (1? 2? 5? I have no idea) beyond the edge of the map seems like a fair enough balance between the two sides of the argument. It would leave quite a bit of space out where no one would be otherwise interested in going to, without having the issue of bases 20 KM out in a random direction.

[Publik 404]

Having wilderness outside of the map is cool' date=' though I think extreme cases of it are pretty exploit-y.

Having an invisible wall or something a few km (1? 2? 5? I have no idea) beyond the edge of the map seems like a fair enough balance between the two sides of the argument. It would leave quite a bit of space out where no one would be otherwise interested in going to, without having the issue of bases 20 KM out in a random direction.

[/quote']

I'd say just spawn zeds near players more the farther out you get. No walls, just a soft cap. However, this isn't a suggestion forum, so moot point :)

[Toccs 0]

The edge of the map is not 200k away from the map itself.

On that note me and my brother found 5 cars out there and looted them, if i can do it why can't you? bases are also easy to find out there due to having 0 cover.

[Antvan 1]

My two cents..

Having explored area north of Pobeda Dam (grids 000-015) finding plenty of tent cities (largest often more than 24 tents due to the "unlimited tent exploit/bug") with vehicles and high tier loot I have definite mixed feeling about this issue.

It is always nice to stumble upon such place and steal good loot and vehicles. This itself bring certain excitement trying not get caught (or setting myself for a sniper shot >800m when the owners come back home). As surprising as it sounds there is ALOT of activity going on in those seemingly remote areas and because people are very protective of their loot collections it is generally "shoot first or get shot" mentality, which makes it purely an area for PVP.

The problem is that since there are no buildings, there are no Zed's which essentially makes living and wandering around the area north of Pobeda basically a any other multiplayer game where your focus is to solely to whack other players (and steal their stuff in this case). This, in my opinion strongly conflicts with the main idea of DayZ.. (Everyone knows how frigging boring was the second season of The Walking Dead when they only camped at the farm)..

This problem is emphasized due to the rather easily gained ability to be nearly completely self-reliant (hatchet eliminates the need to find wood, animals are plentiful and Pobeda dam is close enough source for water). To me it seems it becomes more about aimlessly collecting and storing the "best loot" just for the sake of it.

In my opinion, this should be made more challenging for the groups wishing to practice such hoarding.. As of now, it is actually "carebears" who use borders of Chernarus to store their loot, simply because it is so easy. First solution would be to fix the tent bug which allows people to create these massive tent cities. Also, IMO, one should be able to destroy and/or pickup tents laid by other people as it would bring more insecurity to the hoarders. As for wandering off the map, the solution is simple; No tents can be pitched off the map nor vehicles can be stored there. Vehicles left out of bounds, will spawn back to their initial spawning locations within specific time (e.g. same as loot re-spawn).

And now a treat for all of you wannabe camp raiders out there. EU20 has/had (last checked 12th of June) a very camp containing nice higher tier loot (camo SVD's, M4A1 SD's, NVG's etc.) at 113 003. Now you are wondering why would I be so cruel and reveal some crew's secrets so blatantly... Well, after ambushing their camp there were three dudes who disconnected right after getting shot. Now I don't give a crap if you think what I do here is wrong, but the behaviour of these cowards just makes by blood boil. There is your frigging carebears right there..

[mikyjax 3]

Base are findable only with a chopper.

if you only have a car your chances are low. you need luck

Go from this point, drive for 6 min on that heading you'll find a tent. A tent containing only fuel jerrycan. From that tent drive for 6 min on another heading you 'll find another tent with only jerry can, and so on and so on. Bases are at the end of the waypoints marked by tents.

There are not easy to find even with car since you will probably die of thurst, tents are acting like codes you can't decrypt without the key (proper heading)

Nice found Antvan :)

They got what they deserved

[kyriel 45]

Ah... tent hunting. My passion! :angel: I just love my little bicycle I do I do. :heart:

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Also' date=' IMO, one should be able to destroy and/or pickup tents laid by other people as it would bring more insecurity to the hoarders.

[/quote']

You can flatten other peoples tents. :D

[squeaky024 1]

I hope you guys have actually gone out of the map. Spawn yourself a c130 in the editor, takeoff, and head out. The terrain can be a challenge to finding anything out there in some places as there is still hills and valleys where tents may be hidden.

Personally though, I would rather have all duplication hacks fixed so that those players out there are for sure legitimate. I don't care if someone goes out there because they want to be safe.. I spend most of my time away from any buildings anyways since I have matches and a hatchet... at least until I run out of ammunition.

[mikyjax 3]

Personally though' date=' I would rather have all duplication hacks fixed so that those players out there are for sure legitimate. I don't care if someone goes out there because they want to be safe.. I spend most of my time away from any buildings anyways since I have matches and a hatchet... at least until I run out of ammunition.

[/quote']

Agreed!

[rickenbacker 190]

It's an exploit' date=' and I hope it gets fixed. I actually made a post about this in the suggestions forum earlier today. It isn't fair for a clan to stash all of the vehicles on the map outside of the boundaries a million miles away, where no player can reach it without jogging for hours.

[/quote']

Go back to Hello Kitty carebear.

Well, that was quick, pulling out the standard response of those who exploit!

[okano666@hotmail.co.uk 81]

I would not have any problems with hiding stuff outside of the map bondaries if that meant that anyone in the game can still find a fresh broken vehicle inside normal map.

I have never encountered any *natural* vehicles inside normal DayZ's map(I've stolen a repaired motorcycle with an almost empty tank' date='but I think it belonged to someone before).Im starting to think that hiding vehicles outside of the map's borders causes a stop to the spawning of other vehicles.And this is bad.

Maybe number of vehicles on the server should not be limited?Or am I mistaking here and they still spawn and Im just unlucky?

[/quote']

No Its Limited to a certain amount, once the off map team has gotten there dirty mits on the helicopter(s) and off road vehicles there wont be any other vehicles spawning on the map anywhere. Its limited to a certain few, once the vehicles get blown up only then will another respawn.

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Sure you can have your little hobo camp off the map, you can play your little clan wars as you call it. However i seriously doubt any of that is going on OFF the map.

Just make it so if you move a vehicle off the map it will blow up within a certain amount of time. IE 5minutes. This would make EVERYONE happy am i right?

That will stop people whoring all the already limited amount of vehicles available on only certain servers. And give the other 99% of the player base (aswell as people who have jobs and lives) a chance to possibly find and get a working vehicle without them all behing stashed and hidden off the map.

The area off the map is infinate? I know from spawning in the pre deployment area it took me 1hour 40minutes to get back to the map. I had to traverse litterly accross 3 lengths of the normal map to make it to the north west edge.

[suiside 20]

the hurt it causes is that you (those out of bounds) actually horde the resources out of reach of other players and take more resources from the game/other players with them having no real chance of finding them or being able to loot them, unless you got a chopper.

there is a game map, and i think anywhere outside that map is off limits.

because there is nothing there initially that is part of the game, no Zombies no loot no resources only what you cowards bring to remote places that are unrealistic to be found by others.

you actually remove the game from the playing field and go beyond it, like playing chess with the pieces that are not on the board.

it does hurt the game.

[prometheus111 1]

First of all... to address the "out of bounds" argument. Gamers have been programmed to think that if a provided in game map does not display a location outside of the map that makes that location "out of bounds." But "out of bounds" is only a game term to provide a certain bounds of play. But given that this is a survival game based on realism. There is no out of bounds. I think ideally Rocket would create a legit island that still has a large wilderness off the map but not one that is so effectively infinite.

There are only two issues I see. One is the duping. This really needs to be fixed and I hope tents are at the top of Rocket's list. Once that is fixed it will likely fix the gameplay as teams will be forced to return to map area for food and water and supplies.

Second is vehicles. I see no fix for the fact that vehicles can be hoarded. The question is...do they need a fix once the duping is fixed? If the duping is fixed and people are forced to return to map area, they likely will use vehicles to accomplish this...thus forcing the vehicles to return to the map area and allowing other players easier access to stealing the vehicles.

Having an invisible wall is absurd and one that I don't see Rocket implementing... firstly because it goes against everything he believes in as far as game design and because he hasn't implemented it yet. Being a hobby programmer I know how easy it is to create coordinate boundaries with flat line boundaries. Easy as this piece of code in the main loop:

if (x < 0){x = 0;}

if (y < 0){y = 0;}

That's all it takes. If Rocket were planning on using this as a fix, he would've done it by now.

As far as the zombie suggestion or the blood loss suggestion goes... the blood loss suggestion is absurd and is a magic penalty. The realistic penalty is if you travel without enough food. What needs to be fixed is the fact that in most cases you can log off and log into a different server to regain your food and drink status to full. This will force players to have food and drink to sustain themselves in the wilderness.

Zombie horde pre-aggro spawning is too far fetched but and idea would be to spawn zombies where a dead, player body has disappeared. Or rather... create a spawn point for zombies to spawn. It wouldn't actually spawn zombies until someone comes to that spawn point. That spawn point would contain a counter with the number of zombies it contains. As a player shoots the zombies at that spawn point the counter goes down and if the player leaves...the spawn point despawns the zombies while retaining the counter to keep track of how many zombies are left at that spawn point for later respawning. When the counter reaches 0, spawn point is removed.

Thus if clans group in the wilderness and battle it out this will create large groups of zombies that will be in the wilderness. Another idea would have the spawn point slowly move around the wilderness and have a randomizer to have the spawn point move towards the map area thus creating semi random hordes people desire.

EDIT: To above poster... it only "hurts the game" because you refuse to adapt. The whole point of this game is that it contains infinite possibilities for emergent gameplay, it is the ultimate game genre. The whole point is adaptation. If something works and helps people survive and prosper, then other players must adapt to counteract the new tactic.

[Antvan 1]

Again, remove the ability to store vehicles and pitch tents off the map (North of 000 grid latitude) and I see no reason for anybody to wander there..

[Macenzie 79]

I'm all for stopping people from going past 000 on the grid.

[NobodieCro 11]

Well its good but if a person gets a chopper and flys around , they gonna see it :D

[Macenzie 79]

Well its good but if a person gets a chopper and flys around ' date=' they gonna see it :D

[/quote']

Our group has a chopper, but I still think it should be changed :P

[Max Head 14]

Ive been playing for 4 weeks and have yet to find, see or even hear any vehicles at all. If they are all being stashed off map that REALLY sucks! I dont care about players creating camps, but hoarding the finite, rare and limited resource completely beyond reach of any other players is not a good mechanic for the game/sim.

[Toccs 0]

Ive been playing for 4 weeks and have yet to find' date=' see or even hear any vehicles at all. If they are all being stashed off map that REALLY sucks! I dont care about players creating camps, but hoarding the finite, rare and limited resource completely beyond reach of any other players is not a good mechanic for the game/sim.

[/quote']

Its not beyond reach though just go out and explore, me and my brother loot tents out there all the time.

[heathy87 1]

the problem with spawning in new vehicles is that eventually it will just crash, the old ones have to be removed to spawn new ones at least up till some sort of limit, i think if it gets to the stage where the server hasn't respawned vehicles for a looong time then it should either drop in more choppers to maybe help players reach these hidden bases (which could and would end up going the other way and feeding hoarders even more) or it should remove vehicles that have not entered the game map for x amount of days, which means they probably aren't being used and simply stored indefinitely.

its a problem, obviously you don't want to put in any boarders or strict limits, like has been said it goes against the freedom of the game.

if you look at going outside the game map on its own, its an evil that isn't so bad because it takes a player out of any given situation, it benefits the person going outside the map because they want to hide what they have or for their own reason, and every player on the server benefits for having one less person running around who will potentially KoS. the act itself cancels out the fact of whether its good or bad because the effects are equal between the players it affects, when you add hiding the limited spawning vehicles out of the game map then the problem starts to grow because eventually all the vehicles are owned by the dominant clan or group with no way of countering it besides endless treks through infinity.

the best you can hope for in that case is that ppl with AK's keep shooting at choppers in the hopes of removing a clans main mode of transport and spawning in new ones. but once you have a chopper your not going to be flying it over the assault rifle wielding populace anyway.