Rocket I love you: Going out of bounds - exploit or acceptable?

[wazthatme 9]

' pid='111027' dateline='1339740099']

Just because you have to come "back" to the map doesn't make it acceptable. Just because there is no invisible wall' date=' or you don't have to circumnavigate prts of the map, or break game mechanics, or do anything that effects other players or the server doesn't mean it's not an exploit. If it was intended to be part of the map it would have detail - it would have towns, forests, and buildings. It's exploiting, it's taking advantage of the fact that you CAN go out there, and the fact that in the name of fairness and not being an ass hat that you should NOT be out there. You know you shouldn't be out there but you're making up reasons for why it is acceptable. The fact is that it's not intended, therefore you are exploiting.

[/quote']

Or the map isn't finished because it's alpha. You're doing a lot of assuming.

The map isn't finished because it is. There's nothing out that way, because BIS (they made the map, not Rocket or the DayZ staff) didn't have the resources to continue the map out that way. It's like that on the Takistan(sp?) map as well.

So you're saying for a fact that the map is as finished as rocket wants it and he has no intentions to alter it for DayZ? He has no intention or ability to edit buildings or add/remove new ones?

pretty much yes now if he makes his own Island (thats what they call maps in arma) then he can do as he plzs but TBH i dont see that happen in the mod maybe when its a full game

[mikyjax 3]

The day when rocket will say "Guys, sorry it s over up north, we don't have the ressource to make it work anymore" it will be that way.

If for now it works...

Why add building? who cares? If we can build stuff, hell yes but there is no need to put trees or shits... Eccept if we can plant theim to have more cover... That would be awesome but will probably be performance consuming so it won't probably happen

[Publik 404]

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Do you know this is a limitation for a fact based off what rocket has said' date=' or are you presenting an assumption that backs up your side of the argument? I would genuinely like to know.

[/quote']

Mostly hearsay along with personal game knowledge. You can't have infinite space. With each new house, you need to store where and what the house looks like, which means that there are hard memory limits as to what can be done. The engine, in the same light, can't handle infinity.

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We're getting off topic, btw

[MoonSpank 0]

---Clipped---

Do you know this is a limitation for a fact based off what rocket has said' date=' or are you presenting an assumption that backs up your side of the argument? I would genuinely like to know.

[/quote']

Mostly hearsay along with personal game knowledge. You can't have infinite space. With each new house, you need to store where and what the house looks like, which means that there are hard memory limits as to what can be done. The engine, in the same light, can't handle infinity.

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We're getting off topic, btw

Not sure how it's off topic if it was raised as a point in favor of your thread declaring tents on the empty boundaries to be an exploit.

It seems that you're making a lot of guesses about what the game can and cannot handle. It's fair to do so, but I wouldn't consider that a valid point against tents in the empty lands. For all you know, rocket may implement player buildings and player structures and suddenly being able to place things in that empty space becomes crucial.

Saying what the game has and what the game has not really isn't going to fly as an argument right now because it's a budding alpha. We really have no idea what rocket is going to do in the future.

[mikyjax 3]

You are getting off topic. Engine is not your concern. If Engine can't support war around map Rocket will lock it, period.

:/

[Publik 404]

---Clipped---

Not sure how it's off topic if it was raised as a point in favor of your thread declaring tents on the empty boundaries to be an exploit.

It seems that you're making a lot of guesses about what the game can and cannot handle. It's fair to do so' date=' but I wouldn't consider that a valid point against tents in the empty lands. For all you know, rocket may implement player buildings and player structures and suddenly being able to place things in that empty space becomes crucial.

Saying what the game has and what the game has not really isn't going to fly as an argument right now because it's a budding alpha. We really have no idea what rocket is going to do in the future.

[/quote']

The limits of the engine are off topic. I'm also guessing, but I'm making educated guesses based on hearsay and my own knowledge as a programmer (I wish I had infinite memory to work with).

If we're talking about non-player-built structures, like adding another Cherno-sized city and forests and so on, they would need to be placed by hand on the map files themselves, which would take a very long time and probably require a dedicated staff.

Player-built structures, on the other hand, require no modification to the map itself. If those things are implemented, I still think (moreso than ever) that players should be kept within the 225km^2 map. There are plenty of places to fortify. Doing so outside of the map just feels cheap to me.

The two things people do off the map are:

1. Item caches

2. Clan bases/clan PVP

The first I feel is cheap because it's an easy protection from people that wouldn't normally go off the map and random looters. If you want to have a cache of items, you can, but it (ought to) require(s) some protection. It also minimizes the danger of death, because you can be confident that you have a large supply of gear ready to go if you die.

The second I just don't understand. If you want clan PvP in the desert, why even play DayZ at all? Why not play the Takistan map?

[mikyjax 3]

The problem is that you want to understand... there is nothing to understand...

Why people shoot noobs on beach?

Why people play as bandit?

Why people play as loner and write story next the fire?

Why people try to kill only in defense?

Why people make war and come back in the map to find supplies?

Because it s possible.

When one of those won't be possible, it will stop beeing. (and it will be sad for those who like the removed aspect)

[TheWaffen 0]

here is a couple reason of why it is acceptable.

1. they were able to gather the supplies to build it.

2. they are organized(unlike the rest of the people who are in bean wars)

3. if you want that stuff soooo bad you can run up there and snatch it

4. means less players in some of the inland cities(more loot for ya ;D)

5. if they didn't do that, they would just group up and go raid cities, and don't tell me you could kill all 8 of them either you damn rambo wannabe.

[Publik 404]

here is a couple reason of why it is acceptable.

1. they were able to gather the supplies to build it.

2. they are organized(unlike the rest of the people who are in bean wars)

3. if you want that stuff soooo bad you can run up there and snatch it

4. means less players in some of the inland cities(more loot for ya ;D)

5. if they didn't do that' date=' they would just group up and go raid cities, and don't tell me you could kill all 8 of them either you damn rambo wannabe.

[/quote']

Woah, easy there Rocky. When did I complain about not being able to get their gear? I couldn't care less about the gear that's there.

I'm talking about rights and wrongs here. Key word: Ought. Should players be allowed out of bounds?

[mikyjax 3]

but honestly, I think the minut when it will be possible to clear a town, and create fortification, prevent server hopping, be possible to add power in town.

Those guys will come, clean cherno with high fire power and install theimself.

Another clan will come, clean Electro with high fire power and install.

Then you will get what you want, they left the map, and they will try to rule it, fighting against the next city for more and more power.

That s how human work, specially in great games ;)

[tiri 21]

The problem is that you want to understand... there is nothing to understand...

Why people shoot noobs on beach?

Why people play as bandit?

Why people play as loner and write story next the fire?

Why people try to kill only in defense?

Why people make war and come back in the map to find supplies?

Because it s possible.

When one of those won't be possible' date=' it will stop beeing. (and it will be sad for those who like the removed aspect)

[/quote']

Damn this is so stupid.

Why do people hack ?

Why do people duplicate ?

Why do people grief ?

Because it is possible. And it will be for a long time sadly.

[mikyjax 3]

The problem is that you want to understand... there is nothing to understand...

Why people shoot noobs on beach?

Why people play as bandit?

Why people play as loner and write story next the fire?

Why people try to kill only in defense?

Why people make war and come back in the map to find supplies?

Because it s possible.

When one of those won't be possible' date=' it will stop beeing. (and it will be sad for those who like the removed aspect)

[/quote']

Damn this is so stupid.

Why do people hack ?

Why do people duplicate ?

Why do people grief ?

Because it is possible. And it will be for a long time sadly.

I agree with you, those shits are sad. And ruin the game. I can't more agree with you.

I just don't think it s bad to try building something, and this is not cheat. Or rocket would have put walls around. If he considers it as cheat, tomorrow there will be walls, that s all.

But... I really wouldn't bet Rocket would do that.

[TheWaffen 0]

well damn i misread what the topic was about, i thought you were complaining about people who build tents and fortifications at the edge of the map. as for that if it is documented that it can be done, i say how and give meh~!jk :P

[Publik 404]

well damn i misread what the topic was about' date=' i thought you were complaining about people who build tents and fortifications at the edge of the map. as for that if it is documented that it can be done, i say how and give meh~!jk :P

[/quote']

I never stated my opinion in the OP ;)

I really just want to know Rocket's opinion on this...

[tiri 21]

I agree with you' date=' those shits are sad. And ruin the game. I can't more agree with you.

I just don't think it s bad to try building something, and this is not cheat. Or rocket would have put walls around. If he considers it as cheat, tomorrow there will be walls, that s all.

But... I really wouldn't bet Rocket would do that.

[/quote']

No, no. What I mean is your reasoning is stupid. It's not because players can do something that they have to do it.

And he a lot of better things to do than putting walls all around the map, especially with the bugs spawning you in the debug area.

It ruins even more the game when a bunch of duplicating or cheating assholes take every single vehicles in the map and put them 20 km away. Just because they are organized doesn't mean they can ruin the game of everyone else on the server.

And no, there is not a lot of chopper available all around the map. And people have something else to do than hopelessly running 200 km all day long just to find a single vehicle hidden so that no one can access them unless they waste all their time doing it.

[mikyjax 3]

So you are stating than those organized clans are cheaters now?

man, cheat exist, smart people who love to play games just don't use theim.

I still understand your reasonning.

Deal with it until rocket thinks it s good to remove that aspect from the game.

[RJLupin2 3]

All I can think of after reading this thread is how annoyed I get at people who use unintentionally broken weapons in FPSs just because they can. Like the Frag rounds in Battlefield 3; they were broken, everyone knew it, everyone knew they were going to be patched away, everyone knew they were overpowered and game-breaking... yet people still used them because it's legal within the game's rules. It's kind of a "I have no reason to stop so why should I? Damn the other players" kind of attitude, in my opinion.

All of that said, I have no strong opinion on this. I think it's an interesting feature to have wastelands above and to the right of the map, I just wish it wasn't so easily exploitable.

[bonafide 2]

Hopefully its fixed soon. Either with a barrier or someone suggested never ending aggro zombies. Putting a tent camp 200km outside the map with your clans huey stinks of exploitative nonsense. I Have faith this will be fixed by Rocket at some point so here I exit the thread.

[mikyjax 3]

I don't see the problem. This is not ruining your gaming experience as a frag grenade too powerfull.

It has nothing to do with other players.

[bonafide 2]

I don't see the problem. This is not ruining your gaming experience as a frag grenade too powerfull.

It has nothing to do with other players.

I consider a clan taking all the vehicles and weaponry out of bounds, somewhere I literally have no hope of finding it, ruining my experience. Clans have no fear of death, no fear of their stash being found, its a safety net for pussies. It ruins the over all balance of the game.

[heathy87 1]

well, i'd say its clever use of game mechanics, but its an issue about on par with the case of renting a server to setup a base on, first day you can sit there 'setting up' the server, but in reality all you do is farm NW with some buddies, get a chopper, relocated into the middle of no mans land, then open up the server to the general public, while everyone is milling around pwning each other you and your buds are laughing it up in the wilderness with an unreachable powerbase complete with whatever you managed to farm before dropping the pw.

this is more of a problem than simply being able to go off the map, if you give a map boundaries ppl will just edge crawl anyway.

whatever notions ppl have about fair, balance and whatever else you were expecting, in a game where your meant to do what you can to survive, sure ppl are going to do the most obscure tactics possible in order to make it not worth your while.

same reason why i wouldn't setup a base on a random server, simply don't trust the owners to be honourable. the only time ill ever setup my own base is if i decide to rent my own, at least that way i know the only way someone can screw with it is if its legitimately stumbled upon or if someone comes in and telehacks there way to it or something.

but there are definitely larger issues at work than simply being able to leave the area.

[mikyjax 3]

Yes there are probably server owner doing those craps and on that point I totally agree with you.

But guys, there is nothing to do with a chopper that you can't hide. Most of shopper take damage when flying the regular map because dumbass shoot at theim... for what? for nothing because the choper is down and explodes :/

There is no point to have a chopper in this game if some guys can find it easy after you repaired it for days. So a solution had to be find to keep that advantage.

[DaPessimist 1]

The only problem I see is that provides a clear advantage to people who control the choppers.

[Wired 1]

Hey I know. Every time someone finds a trick to the game that doesn't involve staying on the coast and dying to your sniper rifle, let's complain about it!

[RJLupin2 3]

I don't see the problem. This is not ruining your gaming experience as a frag grenade too powerfull.

It has nothing to do with other players.

As has already been pointed out to you, people taking all the vehicles and leaving them x amount out of bounds is unfair. I haven't a single car in my entire 20+ hours of playing this game. In fact, I've only seen a bike, and I'm pretty sure someone had ridden to where I found it.

The problem is the mentality, in my honest opinion. The action doesn't really bother me, and I honestly feel like it could provide very interesting moments, but people should try to understand how they could be potentially exploiting.

What I think it really comes down to is what Rocket thinks on this subject.