Are Choppers needed in DayZ?

[Zombie Jesus 723]

Helicopters, thermals, nvgs, all these things make the game easier. So it seems to me that keeping them in game makes DayZ more carebear-ish.

I am really confused by the attitudes here. Maybe I am misunderstanding.

How is wanting to remove items that make the game easier the "carebear" option?

None of this makes the game easier for everyone though, only the person who has the item gets the benefit everyone else suffers from not having the item, so it makes it harder to live. In my opinion thermals discourage bush camping, but with thermals I can definitely see why many people want the L85 taken out of the game (AS50 TWS does not belong in the first place). I do not agree at all with removing NVG since they are fairly common wherever military is found and they are theoretically rare. Sometimes people want to take the lazy approach to fixing a problem instead of addressing the real issue. If duping and hacking were checked NVG would not be a common sight and finding them would be a large achievement, instead of focusing on fixing this or at least saying remove them until this issue is fixed they call for the item to be removed.

All gear makes your Dayz life easier, if that was the requirement for removing a piece of gear than everything should be removed. I know I feel a lot less safe with no weapon than I do armed, lets remove weapons. Helicopters are fun and at the end of the day the game should remain somewhat fun, they are also very rare so finding and repairing them in the official map is no easy task and you should be rewarded with the perks of your labor.

Frankly I was being a huge dick and derailed the conversation, but in fairness the OP was a huge dick when someone respectfully disagreed so I do not really feel bad.

[Osaka (DayZ) 32]

Helicopters are difficult to find, and once you do they require a ton of parts and fuel. They are easy targets.

They have more disadvantage than you think.

They're just another hard to get toy. Keep them. I'd rather have the hacks fixed, and added waterplanes.

[Bongofish 22]

I disagree completely.

Having choppers doesn't make DayZ unique at all. They weren't even in the game always.

DayZ was supposed to be about giving you a sandbox and letting you have interesting interactions with other players (I thought). With all the high end military gear it is becoming just another military shooter.

I don't care what equipment is in the game as long as the focus stays on unique player interactions. All these treads obsessed with equipment are part of the problem. They lead to a slippery slope of this becoming just another gear based shooter. There is nothing interesting or unique about getting shot from a helicopter, I can get that in BF3 if that is what I want. What I can't get in BF3 is kidnapped or robbed or teamed up with someone I don't know if I can trust. That is what DayZ should be concentrating on.

[BlksnshN 127]

I want anyone who uses the word "balance" in conjunction with DayZ to be banned from the game.

[rallye 89]

I disagree completely.

Having choppers doesn't make DayZ unique at all. They weren't even in the game always.

DayZ was supposed to be about giving you a sandbox and letting you have interesting interactions with other players (I thought). With all the high end military gear it is becoming just another military shooter.

I don't care what equipment is in the game as long as the focus stays on unique player interactions. All these treads obsessed with equipment are part of the problem. They lead to a slippery slope of this becoming just another gear based shooter. There is nothing interesting or unique about getting shot from a helicopter, I can get that in BF3 if that is what I want. What I can't get in BF3 is kidnapped or robbed or teamed up with someone I don't know if I can trust. That is what DayZ should be concentrating on.

You're just as dead if I shoot you with an enfield or an M107. Given the thousands of vids and streams of people (not to mention personal anecdotes on forums and reddit) I'd say that the 'sandbox' is largely playing out darn well given the equipment in game. The high end stuff needs to be there. It provides a carrot to motivate players to leave the coast., to find a car, to setup a camp, to keep going to hot spots. Without high end gear, you pull the bottom out of the bucket and the whole thing falls apart. There's nothing to keep people playing, and you can't make common weapons rarer. Besides how many times have you come across dead high end geared players, or killed them? The advantage is tenuous at best. Seeing the other person first is the only true advantage in the game.

[Bongofish 22]

True, information is the best advantage. And you make a good point regarding hotspots.

Still, I think the focus should be on player interaction. If certain pieces of gear discourage player interaction, I'd argue the game would be better off without it and if it encourages interaction, the game is better of with it.

PVP with no goal beyond killing other players has been done to death, I'd hate to see DayZ fall down this hole.

I am really hoping that more dangerous zombies and less high end loot will fix these problems.

[rallye 89]

How do they discourage player interaction? A chopper pilot can't gun for himself, one guy with NVGs enables an entire group to play at night, thermal scope gives one guy a chance to defend himself or attack a camp held by a group. You can't force player interaction. Some guys just want to lone wolf. You need to provide for all aspects if you want a true sandbox.

Currently the in game gear enables both groups and lone wolves to have a decent time, attack, defend, forage, and survive. The gucci gear is more like a kill me sign in some respects than an advantage. Who do you shoot first? The guy with the ax or the guy with the M4 standing next him?

To comment on your last remark, less high end loot isn't an issue. Variety is key. The fix we need is duping and hacked items to go away. Once the items are as rare as they should be it will be like playing a different game. The end gear will be like true prizes and the bottom half will be workhorses.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Lobo

[Mos1ey 6301]

I'm not one for "balance" per se, I don't think anything needs to be balanced when everyone has a chance of getting hold of the same gear. Choppers however are not available to all, only a few. I wouldn't care if the canopy was actually drawn in from the sky but right now, it's ridiculous.

As for maintenance, not every flight, that would be way too often but choppers are complex machines requiring specialised maintenance (and we're not even talking about finding someone who actually knows how to maintain the vehicle). People shouldn't expect to have the most powerful vehicle on the map AND have no maintenance AND be able to see through trees.

It isn't about 'balance', being able to see through trees is a bug, lol. It's like how you can see loot by a heli crash more easily when you're a little further away because the grass doesn't load...

I don't think helis should be removed because having them for transport is cool if you put the effort in to repair it, but you really shouldn't be able to see through trees. :S

Edited October 9, 2012 by mZLY

[C0okieH 156]

Think about this, they take ages to fix up, so why shouldn't they have a massive advantage? I think choppers are fine the way they are, first off you really need a car to fix a chopper to drive back and forth to loot spots, so getting the parts for a car will take a tiny bit of time, and a helo takes a shitton of time so why shouldn't they have a massive advantage, its not like they have rockets or gattling guns that you can use like the venom, trust me i've had some bad times on private hives/new maps with the venom, and the purpose of the huey is transportation and a scout chopper honestly.

Helicopters, thermals, nvgs, all these things make the game easier. So it seems to me that keeping them in game makes DayZ more carebear-ish.

I am really confused by the attitudes here. Maybe I am misunderstanding.

How is wanting to remove items that make the game easier the "carebear" option?

Thermals, nvgs and all that make the game easier but do you know how hard these are to find, honestly you need to do some serious loot farming at barracks to get nvgs, these make the game easier for those that put the time in to find these items.

PVP with no goal beyond killing other players has been done to death, I'd hate to see DayZ fall down this hole.

I am really hoping that more dangerous zombies and less high end loot will fix these problems.

I would hate for DayZ to fall down the PVP hole and I think that making high end loot harder to find would be easier, such as a AKM for example, one trip to the firehouse ( on most occasions ) you have a auto of some sort, it may be a MP5 it may be a AKM or a M4, I mean shouldn't AKMs and other AKS be found in military camps, if the russian military or spetznaz or whatever stepped in, and I think only weapons such as M4's and stuff should be only found at chopper crashes because, those chopper crashes have to be british or american, because you can find m107's there and stuff but I think all the loot that is on chopper crashes now, such as PP bizons fn fals and stuff like that, which is not a US or english gun should only be found in high end loot spots, because they are russian military bases correct? so why shouldn't they have just akms and stuff like that up there, i'd like to see more hunting rifles and what not because in dayz there isn't many, we need more dinner bells, well sorry for dragging this up but I had to.

~C0okieH

Edited October 9, 2012 by C0okieH

[RogueOne 112]

Helicopters are difficult to find, and once you do they require a ton of parts and fuel. They are easy targets.

They have more disadvantage than you think.

They're just another hard to get toy. Keep them. I'd rather have the hacks fixed, and added waterplanes.

Agreed, If you ever had to scavenge 50 jerry cans by your self it is a task in itself.

[hawc 63]

Helicopters are difficult to find, and once you do they require a ton of parts and fuel. They are easy targets.

They have more disadvantage than you think.

They're just another hard to get toy. Keep them. I'd rather have the hacks fixed, and added waterplanes.

Also the biggest problem is hiding the chopper good enough so it will be waiting for you next time you log on.

[jason_m_perry@hotmail.com 38]

Think about this, they take ages to fix up, so why shouldn't they have a massive advantage? I think choppers are fine the way they are, first off you really need a car to fix a chopper to drive back and forth to loot spots, so getting the parts for a car will take a tiny bit of time, and a helo takes a shitton of time so why shouldn't they have a massive advantage, its not like they have rockets or gattling guns that you can use like the venom, trust me i've had some bad times on private hives/new maps with the venom, and the purpose of the huey is transportation and a scout chopper honestly.

Thermals, nvgs and all that make the game easier but do you know how hard these are to find, honestly you need to do some serious loot farming at barracks to get nvgs, these make the game easier for those that put the time in to find these items.

I would hate for DayZ to fall down the PVP hole and I think that making high end loot harder to find would be easier, such as a AKM for example, one trip to the firehouse ( on most occasions ) you have a auto of some sort, it may be a MP5 it may be a AKM or a M4, I mean shouldn't AKMs and other AKS be found in military camps, if the russian military or spetznaz or whatever stepped in, and I think only weapons such as M4's and stuff should be only found at chopper crashes because, those chopper crashes have to be british or american, because you can find m107's there and stuff but I think all the loot that is on chopper crashes now, such as PP bizons fn fals and stuff like that, which is not a US or english gun should only be found in high end loot spots, because they are russian military bases correct? so why shouldn't they have just akms and stuff like that up there, i'd like to see more hunting rifles and what not because in dayz there isn't many, we need more dinner bells, well sorry for dragging this up but I had to.

~C0okieH

Why are you even posting here? You are a known hacker that spawns your own shit anyways. I can't believe hackers have insight in this game. /facepalm

[Osaka (DayZ) 32]

It's not equipment or overpowered guns that kill this game, but hackers and other sub humans that like to cheat their way into playing a game.

It's a sandbox game, and there are various tools available for you to chose from.

If I ever find a helicopter that needs repairing I'll just leave it alone. I have no use for it, since I probably feel safer walking my way. It's a lot easier staying hidden on foot than to fly around with the loudest object in the game in plain sight.

ATV's are a bitch to drive, cars suck off road, boats are fun, but most of them are slow as shit.

Still this is a game of survival. You play DAYZ the way you think you can survive the longest.

I chose to be a friendly medic. Running around the map, looking for crap, healing those that allow me to.

I like to sit near a fire at night enjoying a nice warm meal I hunted down earlier that day.

Keep the helicopters. Play the game as intended. It's you against a 200 km² map of danger and random objects. Do with it whatever you like.

You want to be a murderer and pick off new spawns at the beach? Well, you have no creativity, but as long as it's possible and allowed, then be my guest. It's their fault for hanging around on the beach doing nothing. I'll be up north eating steak and downing a can of pepsi. You can have your beach.

[sostronk 334]

Choppers are accessible to everyone, depending on what server your playing on. The problem is, admins have too much power. I could go into detail, but unless you were born yesterday or just started playing the game you know why. Choppers in the game isn't an issue. The games (current) design is.

Edited October 10, 2012 by sostronk

[terex 322]

Getting a chopper to full repaired the legit way can be a lot of work. It is a pretty easy target unless it's moving fast or high up and doesn't get too much ammo. I think it is pretty reasonable.

[merrfack 90]

I could do without them. Never really bothered me, nor have I ever had the need to work for one. They are real easy to take down with any main rifle... just shoot the rotors/engine/pilot and they fall like a rock. idk, im neutral on this

[Inception. 9443]

There is so little endgame in DayZ at this point in time, and thus choppers are almost a necessity to compensate.

[kebman 213]

Jeez, I saw a chopper find jeagers who had their observation posts dug down into the ground. They were living underground for a week just outside my office, pissing on bottles and shitting in bags. While I couldn't find them, the chopper did. They just dropped a smoke marker from the air, and the jeager team had to leave their observation post. In a combat situation, they would of course just guide in an artillery round, or simply drop a 'nade from the chopper. That's how OP the chopper is in real life, however I guess that involved stuff like heat detectors - cuz that thing was dang impossible to see from my level.

As for the in game, sure, it would be nice to make tents a little more safe. It's not cool collecting all that stuff for hours, only to have the tent ran over by a chopper team. While a military chopper with heat seeking might find people, they would still have a much harder time finding concealed and cold stationary targets.

Also, I guess it's not cool having your car found by people who already "have it all". But as for that, I think they should be balanced as well, not allowing you to enter more than two cars, for instance, or despawning the first car you enterede after a while, if you enter a third - or something in that order.

[Inception. 9443]

Jeez, I saw a chopper find jeagers who had their observation posts dug down into the ground. They were living underground for a week just outside my office, pissing on bottles and shitting in bags. While I couldn't find them, the chopper did. They just dropped a smoke marker from the air, and the jeager team had to leave their observation post. In a combat situation, they would of course just guide in an artillery round, or simply drop a 'nade from the chopper. That's how OP the chopper is in real life, however I guess that involved stuff like heat detectors - cuz that thing was dang impossible to see from my level.

As for the in game, sure, it would be nice to make tents a little more safe. It's not cool collecting all that stuff for hours, only to have the tent ran over by a chopper team. While a military chopper with heat seeking might find people, they would still have a much harder time finding concealed and cold stationary targets.

Also, I guess it's not cool having your car found by people who already "have it all". But as for that, I think they should be balanced as well, not allowing you to enter more than two cars, for instance, or despawning the first car you enterede after a while, if you enter a third - or something in that order.

No, the 'not allowing you to enter more than two cars' as by what I have seen you describe it to be is not such a good idea. If people find your cars [excluding hacking and by the use of chopper] then more power to them; you just need to find a better hiding spot.

[dgeesio 1034]

think the answer is more a question of vehicles in general on dayz.

more vehicles in the game ala like wasteland mod would make it more entertaining and less of a ballache .

choppers while fun for a short period of time are boring really. you spend to long trying to get and when you get them to much maintence also most people are having fun on the ground while you flying round doing squat.

they are good for finding others loot and vehicles.

but in general if you want more fun stay on foot with basics this is what makes dayz and not having a chopper and every gun in your backpack.

.

Edited October 10, 2012 by dgeesio

[Jex =TE= (DayZ) 218]

Maintenance, yes all vehicles should.

The tree thing, is a problem with the engine, not the heli.

It is perfectly well thought. Rocket made an anti-game. You and people like you are trying to turn it into a game, with 'balance'. You are trying to ruin the very things that make this mod great.

You want balance go play Planetside 2, or Tribes, or CoD, or BF3, the list goes on.

Fixing the tree issue or removing 3 vehicles from the game affects the balance and ruins it? Try reading my post again moron,.

[Jex =TE= (DayZ) 218]

If you ever mowed down a whole group of players from that side mounted SAW, you wouldn't be asking that question.

It's an M240 actually and you're more likely to get urself killed mowing down player than the other way around.

[Jex =TE= (DayZ) 218]

Ok asshole, you will be treated like the whiny baby you are when you first post a whine rant about some stupid reason and then respond like a dick to the first guy to respectfully disagree (-JMP-'s post not mine).

Logical response, canopy is broken lets fix canopy. Illogical response, canopy is broken lets remove choppers. See where the fail came from asshat? Other than that you did not give one fucking reason for taking out helicopters. Now go back to trying to find other ways to make the game worse over losing your gear (and yes the entire first post reads like a butthurt moron who lost some gear, I am responding to your tone in the thread and not the suggestion idiot).

I'll write my posts in baby talk in future since you obviously failed to understand the meaning of what wrote but let's break down ur dickhead post a little shall we?

respond like a dick to the first guy to respectfully disagree (-JMP-'s post not mine).

What he wrote

Sorry someone killed you from a chopper. Better luck next time.

Yeah beans of respect right there. Let's make up some antagonistic reply on some event that never happened - are you a tool? Now you just go on to embarrass yourself....

Logical response, canopy is broken lets fix canopy. Illogical response, canopy is broken lets remove choppers. See where the fail came from asshat? Other than that you did not give one fucking reason for taking out helicopters.

Oh really?

Personally I don't think choppers have a place in DayZ in their current format. They provide players that have them a huge advantage over those that don't, which let's face it, is practically the entire player base.

and you wanna find crashed chopper sites, get in ur chopper and easily spot them from the air.

A chopper requires regular maintenance - you don't just add fuel and it flies forever needing fuck all servicing. You want a chopper, u maintain it or have the rotor blades fall off mid flight.

If choppers are going to be allowed, the forests need to be fixed so they aren't ridiculously see through (they need to be fixed on the ground too) and adding camo netting won't cut it either.

Oh yeah most of my fucking post you cock - read it much did you?

Sorry I missed ur last piece of bollox

Now go back to trying to find other ways to make the game worse over losing your gear (and yes the entire first post reads like a butthurt moron who lost some gear, I am responding to your tone in the thread and not the suggestion idiot).

I haven't lost my gear in my current state of play. I've never been on the receiving end of any helicopter action. I did shoot one down with a makarov once though. When I do loose gear, It doesn't bother me so what tone were you reading it in - that of a butthurt little girl who can't stand it when someone wants to make a post about removing choppers in the game because they're so needed in there when they don't even have a fucking place in the game? Maybe we should get giraffes in there too right so we can ride them. You're the kind of idiot that, if giraffes were in the game would be bitching to people who said to remove them. Why are choppers needed in the game over the advantage they give a few players over everyone else when they don't require any maintenance and can find every base and crash site first? dumbass

Edited October 10, 2012 by Jex =TE=

[Jex =TE= (DayZ) 218]

Jex and Zombie lets return to civility here. Trust me you don't want to travel the road I just returned from. I like both of you and don't think DayZ would benefit from either of you being silenced. We all have had our moments of ass hattery (yeah I made up that word hush!) We all sometimes are quick to post the first thought to pop off in our heads. (for better or worse) Maybe just take a second and chill out, and discuss it like the blood crazed killers... oops no not that! Rational people.

Again respect both of ya and don't want to see ya get a suspension from the forums... It is a lonely hell there.

Actually no let's not. I'm done putting up with fucking idiots in life and I'll call them out wherever they are. Dayz sure showed one thing, given no come back, most people are assholes. You can tell that by the way most people play - or maybe most dayz players are assholes would be more accurate. I see no reason to stand for it.

[Bakst 98]

Personally, I love choppers. There's this sense of dread when you're on the ground and hear one coming, adrenaline pumping as you rush for cover! =D I don't find them disruptive to gameplay at all, in fact they really add a different kind of challenge to the game. And on the rare occasions that I've flown one myself I had the best time evah in DayZ hehe. As it stands now choppers are difficult to find, require fuel and maintenance, and you have to know what you're doing if you don't want to crash within 30 seconds after takeoff. Despite being a mighty airborne weapon, helis can be taken down with just a few shots by a skilled sniper with an AS50 or M107.

So overall, I think they're a great addition to the game, and I'm hoping for many more aircraft in the standalone: civilian prop planes, small commercial jets, different types of helicopters, etc. etc. But that's just my opinion.