How to 'force' new items to respawn?

[Sandwichx 103]

Once again it is back into the shell, the go to defense of YOU DONT UNDERSTAND ME!!! I sadly do and what it is YOU that cannot understand; is that it doesnt matter. What you do or dont do has no bearing on the topic at hand. You classified "Loot cycling" as something that should be considered a game world destroying, flat out cheating, exploit and to be blacklisted from every server. What I quickly jibbed, if you were doing some of that paying attention you whine so much about, is that there has to be a server that supports it. I doubt there is even one, but regardless even a handful would be a tiny minority of the 5-6.5k different Dayz servers usually running when I play. This defeats your white knight gallivanting the lowly forums routine and is the cold hard uppercut of logic that topples your limp body of lies, right to the canvas.

This is what I thought you understood. You laid down your "argument" under the guise of righteousness and that too is undermined by similarities to other 'bugged game mechanics', you support whole heartedly. You thought we were arguing your crazy real life scenarios that you thought even counted in a conversation amongst grown people. Now there is no back peddling, there is no "You didn't read", you dont get it.. There is your one true last chance to reform your asinine opinion into something that hasnt already felt the red sting of the backhand of sound logic.

It isnt cheating and you cannot argue otherwise. It is not, you want it to be and are trying to raise awareness... I get that and it is cute, but im passing up on the girl scout cookies. So you make a valid statement worthy of my perceptive time or you spout more confused meandering, pussy footing, and general around the bush beating. Choice is yours holy man.

Your points don't count, at all, as i've debunked each and every one. Using the respawn if youre in an unsavory situation or like a real survival game forage through that hospital a bit better and have fun. The second situation is someone who claims moral high ground, can simply "accidentally" fall from a height. Oh oops! Its called an exploit, your only real point was the word exploit. The creator and common sense both told you its not cheating, but you stuck your fingers in your ears and shouted 'NAH NAH BOO BOO, I CANT HEAR YOU!'. Its not some distant past that is unfindable, lol, its like 4 page thread for christ sake. Its over man, lay it down already this is getting embarrassing.

Either you are a cleverly disguised troll, bent on slandering me, or you are one of the thickest people I've ever met. I honestly can't tell which. If you are a troll, then good job, you've trolled me hard. If not, then please, for the love of god, learn how to argue. You've done nothing but try and insult me, claim I've said thing I didn't, repeat some faux-logic about how you've destroyed my points and been a general nuisance. I'm almost convinced at this point you're just waiting for me to post so you can counter with some big-worded post riddled with the word "logic" to try and make your points sound more valid. You're obviously not applying your beloved logic. You say I'm beating around the bush, but you're the one who has been posting insults and faux-logic to try and side-step the issue and hope no one will notice. Again, I implore you to please be civil or don't post at all. I can't take you seriously.

[Mash Tactics 3]

You obviously, like your friend above, don't know how to have a civil argument. If you can't refrain from personal insults, please stop posting.

I'll go with... no.

I feel like everyone that is on your side of the argument can't read. I've explained my points several times thoroughly. As I've mentioned, probably a half a dozen times, please read my previous posts to see my points, instead of being lazy and telling me to rewrite everything just for you.

I'm not telling you to re-write anything. I'm telling you why this 'exploit' is only an 'exploit' in the lightest context. It's simply not comparable to a cheat. You're the one that keeps avoiding answering my questions and trying to re-direct the argument.

It's not unfair, selfish, unethical, or any other negative definition of the word exploit. Until you provide an example of any of those things, it will remain that way.

It IS however;

- to employ to the greatest possible advantage

- to make productive use of

- use something for benefit: to use or develop something in order to gain a benefit.

As I mentioned.

And, for the record, I never said I used the respawn button to get a better position. I said you can use it to respawn if you are in an unsavory situation. The example provided was that you have a broken leg, don't have any morphine and aren't near a hospital. You can keep making thing up about what I said, but it won't prove your point.

Fair enough. However, that is still an exploitation of a game mechanic in an unintended manner, nonetheless. If you've ever done that, you're a hypocrite.

[Bizzyb 9]

Either you are a cleverly disguised troll, bent on slandering me, or you are one of the thickest people I've ever met. I honestly can't tell which. If you are a troll, then good job, you've trolled me hard. If not, then please, for the love of god, learn how to argue. You've done nothing but try and insult me, claim I've said thing I didn't, repeat some faux-logic about how you've destroyed my points and been a general nuisance. I'm almost convinced at this point you're just waiting for me to post so you can counter with some big-worded post riddled with the word "logic" to try and make your points sound more valid. You're obviously not applying your beloved logic. You say I'm beating around the bush, but you're the one who has been posting insults and faux-logic to try and side-step the issue and hope no one will notice. Again, I implore you to please be civil or don't post at all. I can't take you seriously.

Literally the same exact post I just replied to and im fairly sure that is your one trick pony. Now this overly defensive act or yours has me struck with enough empathy to offer one more translation of the truth.

You have an opinion on the topic at hand. This opinion is semantics mostly and has no effect at all on the way of things. You positioned to make this opinion echo from these forums as fact. I came and served up slices of humble pie. The conversation has ended abruptly due to me stomping it right in its loop hole(s). Now you scramble around kind of whining a little bit, in the hopes someone will swoop in and offer assistance. It obviously isnt going to happen. Now it is mostly awkward.

So if you absolutely need to post the SAME exact post again, saying nothing, defending nothing, and not at all rewording or trying again at your lost argument.. Then I will just not be able to bless you with another all star retort. If it is last word you want, Im fine with that. I got more sensible word, least you can have is last.

Edited October 24, 2012 by Bizzyb

[Sandwichx 103]

Fair enough. However, that is still an exploitation of a game mechanic in an unintended manner, nonetheless. If you've ever done that, you're a hypocrite.

The situation I described in not using a game mechanic in an unintended manner. The mechanic was designed to let you respawn if you are in some situation you don't want to be in. That is, literally, the reason it was designed. I should also point out, I almost never use the respawn button, but I do support its use.

Literally the same exact post I just replied to and im fairly sure that is your one trick pony. Now this overly defensive act or yours has me struck with enough empathy to offer one more translation of the truth.

You have an opinion on the topic at hand. This opinion is semantics mostly and has no effect at all on the way of things. You positioned to make this opinion echo from these forums as fact. I came and served up slices of humble pie. The conversation has ended abruptly due to me stomping it right in its loop hole(s). Now you scramble around kind of whining a little bit, in the hopes someone will swoop in and offer assistance. It obviously isnt going to happen. Now it is mostly awkward.

So if you absolutely need to post the SAME exact post again, saying nothing, defending nothing, and not at all rewording or trying again at your lost argument.. Then I will just not be able to bless you with another all star retort. If it is last word you want, I'm fine with that. I got more sensible word, least you can have is last.

Listen, you're obviously just a huge troll, so there's no point in arguing with you. If you need to win an internet argument to feel good about yourself, that's fine. If you can't handle a civil debate, that's fine. Go troll somewhere else though. You'll get no more out of me.

[Bizzyb 9]

Listen, you're obviously just a huge troll, so there's no point in arguing with you. If you need to win an internet argument to feel good about yourself, that's fine. If you can't handle a civil debate, that's fine. Go troll somewhere else though. You'll get no more out of me.

You've said this 3 pages ago and frankly I just do not care. This isn't a debate and you started off by saying anyone who does this should be blacklisted from all servers, as well as getting mean spirited on the very first page, so the "poor me, please be civil" act is just pathetic. Cut it out.

I don't care about winning an argument, especially a fair one, but this is no debate and certainly not fair. You've had several opportunities to attempt an actual argument and have instead stalled for several pages now. Your argument is that 'loot cycling' is cheating, just as much as hacking, and should result in immediate bans from every server. Yet we have gone through how it is a game mechanic, possibly in need of tweaking, but will remain so. Cheats are not game mechanics and certainly dont persist on newer builds. If one player comes through a building and finds tons of items he wants, he takes them. The person who comes in next and loots fresh items is not a cheater, sorry. We have even agreed those who "farm" the location can be considered exploiting. Still not cheating worthy of global ban however. So do you continue to stick to these guns, eventhough its rubber bullets bounce off the chest of logic? Or do you wish to rephrase your "argument" into something that is deserving of continued conversation?

I can only assume that this post, free of insults and more civil then any of either of ours thus far, will be met with more distraction. I do not mind ending our chats at all my friend, just drop the act about it. Being honestly offended and being proven wrong are two very different things.

[Mash Tactics 3]

The situation I described in not using a game mechanic in an unintended manner. The mechanic was designed to let you respawn if you are in some situation you don't want to be in. That is, literally, the reason it was designed. I should also point out, I almost never use the respawn button, but I do support its use.

If the mechanic had been intended to allow people to simply do away with conditions like broken legs or sickness whenever they felt too lazy to go do it the appropriate way, why would those conditions even be in the game? Furthermore, why would the items needed to remove those conditions be so rare?

(Sure, morphine isn't rare if you visit a hospital, but good luck making it to a hospital with a broken leg.)

The loot cycling mechanic, however, I believe is being used in its intended form. Was it not intended to spawn loot when all other loot had been removed?

Edit: Actually, to tack on to my first point, the respawn button was almost certainly intended to be used as an anti-bug mechanic, such as getting stuck inside of a wall, or glitched into the floor. Used similarly as an 'unstuck' button is used in most games. Not to be used as a 'get out of jail free card' whenever you get unlucky with a broken leg.

Edited October 25, 2012 by Mash Tactics

[Bizzyb 9]

I'm glad you can appreciate my point of view on this and I hope you understand it's my personal view. I'm not passing judgement on you, or anyone else here. Certainly not going to get into some ethical pissing match that we've seen in this thread. I did point out that I totally understand why people do it and I'm often tempted to do it myself. It REALLY sucks running around for so long only to find junk... then keep running to find yet more junk. But to me it makes accomplishment so much more satisfying when I do finally find something good!

You're doing yourself a disservice by avoiding doing it at all costs. It isnt about instant gratification, it is about improper spawn mechanics being work around'able. Flinging a dozen empty cans at the hospital windows, is a good reason to clean out the grocery store to me. So give the store once more over, you've earned it for staying there that long.

Not sure I totally agree that camping loot spawns is more risky. I see what you mean and I've read other peoples argument about this. Maybe it's more of a risk when camping and cycling good spots like super markets, hospitals, etc. I've seen little to no risk camping places that are less desirable. I just rarely run into people at all let alone in some machine shed on a pier. Never seem to worry about zombies once I'm IN a building. Maybe I've just been lucky here. Again it may be much more risky in highly desirable buildings because people seek them out on purpose.

Oh no, it absolutely is more risky. The longer you let 'your' (each player has a proximity of zombies that spawn for them) zombies stay up, the more risk you run no matter where you are. Running through the woods to another spot, with no tail, is a very safe method of obtainable items. In and out looting is by far the survival handbooks goto method.

I think it's more risky running from building to building. I've never been killed in a building. Always seem to get zerged by zeds or capped by other players when I'm running outside of buildings. You even note that you don't want to run across a zombie filled wasteland ... because it's risky and the loot isn't guaranteed.

No loot is guaranteed, I should note. Some items have a fraction of a percentage chance of spawning.

This is a solo thing, running in groups you will positively need to "hold" down locations for mass scavenging, healing, regrouping, ect. before moving onto other towns. That is the awesome part, how often groups raid towns for supplies, and how quick and savage they do it. There is no 'Aww tin cans' attitude when your buddies left knee split open and another buddy hasnt had a drink in 2 days. Running building to building doesnt really do much for you after you've check all the buildings in a town, which can take an experienced player maybe 10 minutes to do. Which means you take the 20 minute to 3 hour run to another place.. Or you bunker down until you get mildly acceptable supplies. Staying put positively is more risky then trekking through wooded areas, stumbling into free vehicles. ;)

I've never found a heli crash site. However I'm rather principled and do try not to be a hypocrite. Like I mentioned before; forcing loot cycles takes away the sense of accomplishment for me... I just don't like it. It also cheapens the whole experience. By that I mean... if I can just force loot cycles and eventually get what I want... I really don't care if I loose anything... I'm really not worried about trying to survive... so the game becomes less meaningful and eventually boring. I've done it in other games and come to realize these things.

I totally understand your perspective and that is respectable. For almost everybody else, playing long enough to have run into at least one heli crash site, there is no more sparkle in rolling around in shrubs to perserve your AKM and can of mountain dew. People who get attached to their items, will most likely rage quit the quickest. This game is not forgiving and has no algorithm that makes sure you dont get screwed. Ive run to places, hungry and thirsty, to see nothing I could eat or drink. Dying out of some stubborn principal just isnt having fun.

Kicking a few tin cans around to see if there is something buried underneath, isnt something you need to avoid nor exploit. Pulling something from the rubbish is at least equally as rewarding as picking up someone elses left overs.

The situation I described in not using a game mechanic in an unintended manner. The mechanic was designed to let you respawn if you are in some situation you don't want to be in. That is, literally, the reason it was designed. I should also point out, I almost never use the respawn button, but I do support its use.

It is a game mechanic, no matter how you slice it. Your argument has stated you find loot cycling to ruin immersion and other player's fun, in the survivor game as your corner has called it. That means you accept that ALL abused game mechanics must then fall under the same leering disgust that you've thrown at loot cycling. That is your crutch.

Respawning with a broken bone while rolling in the hospital boxes full of morphine, is optional game mechanic that youve taken advantage of. It doesnt AUTOMATICALLY do it for you, it is a game mechanic you must initiate in order to bypass "wasted time".

The game is designed so that loot removed completely from a building allows for more to spawn, this is a game mechanic. This doesnt happen automatically, you must initiate it in order to bypass "wasted time".

Simple stuff here.

[Mash Tactics 3]

And, above all, I don't think anyone should try and equate this to reality. The military simulator part of the game adds about as much reality as it can, but you have to understand that this is still a GAME.

Is loot cycling unrealistic? Sure.

Is using morphine to fix a broken leg unrealistic? Laughably.

Is finding a new crashed helicopter in a random field every day unrealistic? Yep.

Is the ability to pry open a can of pasta with your fingernails unrealistic? Is the ability to repair a car without any repair tools unrealistic? Is the inability to drink from a pond without a water bottle unrealistic? Yep. Yep. Yep.

It doesn't matter if it's realistic or not. It's realistic to the point where any further realism makes certain mechanics impractical. It's just a game, folks. There's no sense of trying to take some flimsy moral high-ground because someone plays differently than you.

[DrunkPunk 159]

Take all the loot spawns, move 50m out (but stay within 200), and wait 10 minutes. sometimes it takes a bit longer, but 10 minutes is generally the time it takes.

[Elias (DayZ) 57]

If everybody would help to keep those lootpiles *spick-and-span* then it would be a better world. Thank you.

A lesson on loot pile manners

[Bizzyb 9]

Some consider that to be 'cheating' Elias :) while others have common sense.

[Dr.Duff 211]

Loot cycling is an exploit of game mechanics and you should feel shamed of yourself!

[Mash Tactics 3]

Loot cycling is an exploit of game mechanics and you should feel shamed of yourself!

Opening a can of beans without a can opener is an exploit of reality and you should feel ashamed of yourself!

[Bizzyb 9]

Loot cycling is an exploit of game mechanics and you should feel shamed of yourself!

Wrong. Deep scavenging is an intricate part of survival. Thanks though for your post, was a cool one!

[Shadow Man 142]

To me this is about how something is properly implemented in a game. I can understand the point about deep scavenging. But I personally think it needs to be fixed so you cant loot cycle. I think Rockets vision is about authenticity or believability. Obviously there's only so far you can take realism in a place where the population is continually dying and respawning. In a real life apocalypse if you were the first one to find the loot, quite simply, you'd be the lucky one. Loot spawns happen to give people a chance of finding something. But surely its meant to be just a chance? It gives value to items that are rarer than others. If you're going to all the trouble of loot cycling you may as well just hack yourself a few essentials and save yourself the time. Btw no I don't hack :)

[Mash Tactics 3]

To me this is about how something is properly implemented in a game. I can understand the point about deep scavenging. But I personally think it needs to be fixed so you cant loot cycle. I think Rockets vision is about authenticity or believability. Obviously there's only so far you can take realism in a place where the population is continually dying and respawning. In a real life apocalypse if you were the first one to find the loot, quite simply, you'd be the lucky one. Loot spawns happen to give people a chance of finding something. But surely its meant to be just a chance? It gives value to items that are rarer than others. If you're going to all the trouble of loot cycling you may as well just hack yourself a few essentials and save yourself the time. Btw no I don't hack :)

If it isn't done in this manner, then once an area is drained of resources, it will permanently stay that way.

And that won't work. The map isn't big enough for that to work.