Why vilayer hives are going to reduce the quality of the game (They allow admin abuse)

[Cramer 7]

I think having more maps is a great thing, and with rockets announcement of putting the dayz mod code on github, it will help foster even more innovation with this very fun mod. However, after trying out the new Fallujah map yesterday, I ran into a clear case of admin abuse. A guy and his friend kill me, I spend 45 minutes getting back to where I died, I kill the guy, and he bans me. I contacted Vilayer and this was my message and their response:

Hello Vilayer owners!

I'm not sure where to report admin abuse on one of your servers, so hopefully this ticket makes it to you. I have clear evidence of admin abuse on US 567. The admin is Dustin, and him and his friend Christian killed me. After finally getting back to the airfield, I got my revenge, killed them, and was immediately banned.

Here is the video evidence:

http://www.twitch.tv...err/b/333137695

1:02:00 is where I die originally. 1:51:00 is where he bans me after I kill him. He actually banned my wife Pandapaws and my friend Kelth shortly after banning me. You can clearly see from the video we broke no rules, these admins were just killing people and then banning when they got killed themselves. They also said things like "this is a private hive, we are allowed to ban who we want" and other things I believe to be untrue (the only Fallujah hive is a shared one that you guys host). Please let me know if I can do anything further to help you investigate this. Thank you for your time.

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For the best game play experience possible, we encourage you to rent your own server.

Best Regards,

Joseph Gladki

(Support Technician) Vilayer LTD

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Does this mean Vilayer doesn't actually do any policing of admin abuse, even when clear evidence is presented? Do you guys feel that the people that rent your servers should be able to ban other players because they kill them, lock the server and farm loot, kick people not in their clan, etc? Would really like to get the Vilayer stance on this, as it would greatly impact my desire to buy a server or not.

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Yes, they can do what they'd like just as on any other game server.

Best Regards,

Casey Baer (Support Technician)

Vilayer LTD | www.vilayer.com

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Actually, they can't do whatever they'd like on normal DayZ servers as their servers would get blacklisted from the main hive. If you guys are going to make maps and host hives, you shouldn't just be letting admins abuse their powers in game.

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That's the end of our back and forth as of this morning. I'm wondering what the community thinks about this issue....should admins be allowed to do whatever they want since they pay for the server? Or should there be some standards and rules in place they should abide by?

Edited September 23, 2012 by Cramer

[christopherwright_75@hotmail.co.uk 109]

They pay for the box they can do what they want best way to keep check on that is to have a community list of whats shit so people can read up.

Vilayer I think are scum for other reasons, Takistan being the biggest they lazily ported the mod to a premade map and couldnt even be arsed to spend the time to use the Takistan Civilian models for the zombies (there are other bugs on the map too), they then proceed to cash in as hard as they can on this bodge job of other peoples work while shoving their branding over the loading page.

[Cramer 7]

Yeah, I just wish they would make some effort to police their hive, especially since it's a large shared one. Admins/server owners can police against hackers, but there's no one to police the police like there is on normal DayZ. There's totally a Watchmen quote that would make sense here!

Edited September 23, 2012 by Cramer

[SmashT 10907]

Yes, that's fine, it's a private server/hive and as such the server hosting rules do not apply. Play on a different server/hive if you aren't happy with how that specific one is being run.

Edited September 23, 2012 by smasht_AU

[Cramer 7]

I'm well aware of the fact the DayZ dev team cannot police a hive or servers they do not own or monitors, I just want to get the communities thoughts on if they feel this is acceptable. If there's enough people that complain to Vilayer, it's possible that they actually start to...you know, impose actual standards upon their servers. I just feel if they are going to capitalize off of rockets hard work, they should at least TRY to do some form of policing, especially when clear evidence is presented to them.

[mibz0r 141]

This is the problem with the project splitting such as it has done, different rules from different providers, I can say that if I was a provider there would be set rules against any abuse of admin power with punishments such as server resets, removal from the hive etc. As far as I'm concerned Admin abuse can actually be more destructive to the community than hackers as they get caught and banned but admin's just say "it's my server, my rules" well I'm sorry but thats BS and makes you no better than the scripting little scumbags.

[Torndeco (DayZ) 46]

As usual there are positive & negatives with everything....

With private servers people are paying for a server that isn't tied to dayz server hosting rules & less restrictions i.e server settings / maps / banning players...

If u don't like the idea that admins can do whatever they want without any oversight on private server, u got 2 choices really

** Rent your own private server & run it the way u see fit

** Or just stay on offical hive servers, that admins must adhere to offical server hosting rules. Which is exactly what u want...

There are admins out there, that are fair & very good and run private servers, because of the extra map choices / bug fixes / freedom it provides them. Its just a matter of finding them

Vilayer have no real reason to start policing there public servers (expect in extreme cases), as this would hurt there bottom line.

Which would mean higher server costs for admins to offset the extra staff to lookup for unfair bans.... and annoyed admins would end up going away to another competitor.

Not to mention the headaches with credit card companys if they revoked someone servers over admin abuse complaints. Atleast if its an offical server they can point @ offical rules regarding hosting the game & say nothing they can do.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Torndeco

[Tyrtaeus 4]

I think having more maps is a great thing, and with rockets announcement of putting the dayz mod code on github, it will help foster even more innovation with this very fun mod. However, after trying out the new Fallujah map yesterday, I ran into a clear case of admin abuse. A guy and his friend kill me, I spend 45 minutes getting back to where I died, I kill the guy, and he bans me. I contacted Vilayer and this was their response:

Hello Vilayer owners!

I'm not sure where to report admin abuse on one of your servers, so hopefully this ticket makes it to you. I have clear evidence of admin abuse on US 567. The admin is Dustin, and him and his friend Christian killed me. After finally getting back to the airfield, I got my revenge, killed them, and was immediately banned.

Here is the video evidence:

http://www.twitch.tv...err/b/333137695

1:02:00 is where I die originally. 1:51:00 is where he bans me after I kill him. He actually banned my wife Pandapaws and my friend Kelth shortly after banning me. You can clearly see from the video we broke no rules, these admins were just killing people and then banning when they got killed themselves. They also said things like "this is a private hive, we are allowed to ban who we want" and other untrue things (the only Fallujah hive is a shared one that you guys host). Please let me know if I can do anything further to help you investigate this. Thank you for your time.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For the best game play experience possible, we encourage you to rent your own server.

Best Regards,

Joseph Gladki

(Support Technician) Vilayer LTD

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does this mean Vilayer doesn't actually do any policing of admin abuse, even when clear evidence is presented? Do you guys feel that the people that rent your servers should be able to ban other players because they kill them, lock the server and farm loot, kick people not in their clan, etc? Would really like to get the Vilayer stance on this, as it would greatly impact my desire to buy a server or not.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, they can do what they'd like just as on any other game server.

Best Regards,

Casey Baer (Support Technician)

Vilayer LTD | www.vilayer.com

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, they can't do whatever they'd like on normal DayZ servers as their servers would get blacklisted from the main hive. If you guys are going to make maps and host hives, you shouldn't just be letting admins abuse their powers in game.

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That's the end of our back and forth as of this morning. I'm wondering what the community thinks about this issue....should admins be allowed to do whatever they want since they pay for the server? Or should there be some standards and rules in place they should abide by?

Unfortunately, Private servers are the only sure fire way to restrict hacker abuse, what with Battle-Eye being a pile of wank. I play on a private server with ZERO admin abuse, no banning for no reason, no spawning in vehicles/weapons, no nothing.

I'd be quite happy with a restriction on admins, provided it happens AFTER the hacking issues are sorted (presumably then, after standalone release)

Edited September 23, 2012 by Tyrtaeus

[Tabbykatze 23]

I now operate on a private server now because i and my fellow admins now have control. Because it is needed. Are you going to whine on every Battlefield server that you go on and get kicked and banned by a kid admin because you're bitchslapping them? Sometimes you'll go on a server where the admin is a douche. In which case you just move on.

[NoyZ (DayZ) 66]

This is the problem with the project splitting such as it has done, different rules from different providers, I can say that if I was a provider there would be set rules against any abuse of admin power with punishments such as server resets, removal from the hive etc. As far as I'm concerned Admin abuse can actually be more destructive to the community than hackers as they get caught and banned but admin's just say "it's my server, my rules" well I'm sorry but thats BS and makes you no better than the scripting little scumbags.

Explain EXACTLY how that works. Ive been teleported and killed a few times by hackers. Put a half a clip in ones head only to have him turn around and 1 shot me. Can never get proof so I deal with it. I would MUCH rather deal with someone looting unhindered cause they kick everyone from thier server than scripers or hackers. Don't like the way the server is run, MOVE THE HELL ON!!! Let them have fun in thier little pool while you go somewhere else. Common sense really.

[hollenfeuer88 124]

That's exactly why I am trying to keep my clan from going to the Dayz hive. You have ZERO power in the official hive as an admin ZERO. Then you get all the crap for not dealing with hackers. Just yesterday we got teleported on, my clan mate shot and killed him, we got his name and gave him the ban hammer. This could not happen on a official hive because you need log prof and they restrict the logs you can see. They restrict the logs because people complain about "admin abuse", then bitch the admins don't do enough. We pay for the server, we should be able to do as we like. That all said, we never kick or ban just because we want to; you do that then no one will play on your server. If a clan wants a player base they need to act like adults, and be responsible. Rant over, I'm sorry you got power tripped on :thumbsup:

[machomanugget 26]

with the amount if shit that i have had to put up with over the past 4 months of having an "official" dayz server with little or no help from official sources

i am glad Vilayer run my private hive now and i can run the server correctly and atleast have a chance of kicking/banning all the hacking arseholes that seem to infest this game at the minute...

as for what you ended up messaging vilayer ... if you dont like it buy your own server instead of moaning <snip> on here..

find another server there is loads... play on official ones there infested with every kind of hacker there is... atleast on a private one you have some chance of keeping it semi clean...

Edited September 23, 2012 by smasht_AU

[Mandalore (DayZ) 76]

The rules don't apply in private hives, everyone can do as they please and no you have no say about it whatsoever.

That's something you should have known before even going to one. Sometimes, reading will get you a long way.

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

Sometime i believe that 80% of guys here doesn't have a working brain....

Prvate hive = their own rules. That's completely fine and when you run your own server with your own hive you can do whatever you want to do, your server = your rules.

But when you have a server networked (hence the consideration about the not-working brains) everything you do on "your" server is going to affect the gameplay on other networked (same hive) servers!

So a well administred Vilayer server can be totally exploited by another (poor administred) server, imagine: i can do any sort of things on that server, including cheat, duping, hack, whatever and then migrate all that shit on a "good" server to annoy the ppl there.

Having no rules on a (relative big) NETWORK, i repeat again for those half-working brains chaps: NETWORK <<<< that is different than a SINGLE SERVER, makes the network absolutely useless, in fact without a set of shared rules there's no reason to have a network at all, it's tons more convenient to setup YOUR server with YOUR HIVE.

...the "fun" part is that the players that should understand what i've wrote above are the same that doesn't turn on their brains.. so i've just wasted another 5 minutes of my life. :)

[smore98 225]

Heres how the private hives work...

They set their own rules with their own ways of treating the players. What you find morally wrong can mean nothing to them under any given situation. True, I may have not been to a private hive before, it would seem like the most logical explanation to why they do this. You can't exactly stop them from doing what they do, so the best you can do is find another hive to play on.

[WargameKlok 166]

I'm glad this topic made it back to the forum. Now I know of several servers to stay away from. Thanks to the OP for bringing this to our attention and to the mods for their restraint.

[Torndeco (DayZ) 46]

@WalkerDown

Worse they could u is remove all battleye filters & script away on thier own server...

And ban players from their own server...

Note this is all on 1 server...

If anyone try's to bring banned weapons to my server... my battleye filters will kick them.... i am free to ban them from my server, no proof needed...

If i notice people jumping in/out of server & getting fully geared up each time... i am free to ban them from my server, no proof needed....

I had someone join server 6 times & get kicked by battleye for having a cheat engine running. 7th time they turned it off. I banned the player. Techincal i have no proof of hacking, this would be against offical rules to ban such a player, as they did nothing wrong yet.

Also i banned a player that jumped onto server got kicked for global ban. The player rejoined in under 30 seconds later, same ip & player name but with a new GUID. The chances of a innocent player changing their cd-key that fast is slim so banned straight away. Also against offical server rules

There is something to be said for allowing admins with more control...

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As for admins scripting / duping on thier own server.

This is still completely possible with an offical hive server...

U remove the battleye filters, log into rcon. reload scripts / events.

Script away

Upload the filters back & reload scripts/events...

Someone mentions cheaters, admin just says fucking battleye bypass again.

Any dedicated / managed server can have admins faking logs of hacking to ban players / or they can disable battleye filters to script themselves weapons.

So basicly the problem of a bad admin, isnt restricted to vilayer or any other private servers

Edited September 23, 2012 by Torndeco

[Dictator (DayZ) 0]

After all the shit you have talked on the chat , no wonder that you were banned =/

I mean yes you were killed , and then u revenge your death , but you keep on splitting shit into the chat nonstop ...

[venthos 605]

No gameserver provider is ever going to police their private gameservers. They don't/won't do it for any other game servers they run, and they're not going to start with DayZ.

Why? Game server sales are already incredibly competitive. Some of them go for what, $20 a month or something crazy low? If they were to even spend a fraction of their time trying to police any server (especially a DayZ one) they would immediately start losing money due to the time spent acting like a babysitter.

It does not make sense for a company who is exclusively running gameservers sales to police the game mechanics of those gameservers. It's not going to happen.

Everyone cried for private servers, and you got them. Now you're crying that private servers are private and not controlled by an all encompassing authority. Do you not see the irony?

Private servers are a good thing, but the penalty for this is it's going to take a lot of heartache wading through the bullshit servers run by 12 year olds (or at least mentally 12) until you find the servers run by competent admins. No one is going to (nor should they) try and police all the private servers. You just have to do your homework. It's gonna suck sometimes and you'll have to pick a new box. But, that's the necessary evil to private servers. It's kind of like a "vote with your wallet" situation. Vote with your playtime. If the private servers run by incompetent folks don't have anyone left to grief on their own server, they'll cancel it.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Venthos

[OneCleanSh0t 1]

Someone get this kid a Whamburger and French Cries. It's a private hive and they pay good money to have their own hive and server. Go play elsewhere.

[Dictator (DayZ) 0]

You know if you watched the kill and the chat , that probably not the kill it self got him banned anyways.

[S_poon 69]

Sometime i believe that 80% of guys here doesn't have a working brain....

Prvate hive = their own rules. That's completely fine and when you run your own server with your own hive you can do whatever you want to do, your server = your rules.

But when you have a server networked (hence the consideration about the not-working brains) everything you do on "your" server is going to affect the gameplay on other networked (same hive) servers!

So a well administred Vilayer server can be totally exploited by another (poor administred) server, imagine: i can do any sort of things on that server, including cheat, duping, hack, whatever and then migrate all that shit on a "good" server to annoy the ppl there.

Having no rules on a (relative big) NETWORK, i repeat again for those half-working brains chaps: NETWORK <<<< that is different than a SINGLE SERVER, makes the network absolutely useless, in fact without a set of shared rules there's no reason to have a network at all, it's tons more convenient to setup YOUR server with YOUR HIVE.

...the "fun" part is that the players that should understand what i've wrote above are the same that doesn't turn on their brains.. so i've just wasted another 5 minutes of my life. :)

People do plenty of that yes, however I did regular checks for the most common hacked weapons, anyone using them got kicked with a warning to ditch the gear or face a ban. Yes, yes I know you can't be banned for having hacked gear... blah, blah, blah. There is a reason I do not tolerate that gear and there is a reason it is not in DayZ in the first place. The AS50 TWS for example can be used effectively at 900m in the fog.Even a regular AS50 cannot be used that well. The G36 has almost no recoil and does the damage of any of the non-sd stanag weapons.

They are OP and will no be used on our servers.

Edited September 24, 2012 by S_poon

[Legacy (DayZ) 1091]

So let me get this straight.

You're whining about admin abuse, in which you believe shouldn't be tolerated by the service provider that is hosting their servers. Because the admins banned you on their Private Hive in which the DayZ Staff have no control over, and the people managing the server have paid for with their own money? And you feel that something should be done about it?

If it's a Private Hive, you really don't have much reason to complain as they control the server unless they violate their ToS/Contract with their service provider. I understand your... arguement and concern, but some things just don't go the way we want. And we just have to live with that.

Move on, find a new home server, and learn to love it. Get to know the staff before you get involved next time, aye?

Duplicate Posts Deleted

[reuben5150 83]

Yes, that's fine, it's a private server/hive and as such the server hosting rules do not apply. Play on a different server/hive if you aren't happy with how that specific one is being run.

Yes agreed, just forget about it and move elsewhere, it's not hard to find decent admins/ servers ( shameless plug ) :)

[sampowell0101@hotmail.co.uk 4]

If you think that was bad? Me and a few friends all play the with clan tag [RSY] just so people know we are together. they joined a server for a while and got banned for the reason "Rent an RSY server". now they broke no rules and to the best of their knowledge they didn't kill the admins. I then joined but forgot to change my name and before I could click OK to load into the game I was banned for the same reason