suggestions for a mental health system in Dayz

[birdman 108]

People will shoot other people. . .

'nuff said. Ammo being scarce does not matter. "Snipers gonna snipe", even if they don't loot your body.

There has to be some perk for playing as a friendly hero type just as there needs to be some bandit perk to ensure balanced gameplay. Having a mental breakdown if you're bad and shrugging off stress if you're good does not make sense. I do agree with point 2, more "rogue" zombies in urban areas who do not dissapear when you bitch exit. That calls for teamplay.

[r3dskull 14]

The system doesn't give you a mental breakdown if your bad and a clean bill of mental health if your good it's dosn't make value judgements, it's just like running and drinking water if you are involved in high level activity you will need socialise from time to time. If your good and don't socialise very occasionally you will go nuts, if you experince a lot of bad shit and don't socalise now and again you will go nuts too, people need other people it's a proven fact. You know why soldiers are able to kill people without going nuts? Its the comaradery the feeling of being looked out for, that you have people you can turn to who are supporting you, that you are doing the right thing as a collective. In the real world people who kill a lot of people without being in a unit, group or social network (not talking about facebook here!) are assasins who kill very occasionally for large amounts of money or and this is the majority, are mentally ill people who walk into a school or movie theatre and pull the trigger. In game, it just means people who kill a lot of other players will occasionally have to interact with other players in order to not go nuts, they don't have to be nice, they can rob them, threatern them they just can't shoot them in the face for a small period of time or there will consequences.. after they have sat down for a bit and maybe if they like, spoke to another player then they can go back to shooting people in the face for no reason again and again and agin, hell they can even shoot the person they have just shared the campfire with in the face, it's their choice. Everything has consequences if I wanna play a medic their is a possibity someone I am helping could kill me, they are the consequences, if I am a mass murderering hermit then it will probably take a toll on my sanity.

[birdman 108]

The system doesn't give you a mental breakdown if your bad and a clean bill of mental health if your good it's dosn't make value judgements, it's just like running and drinking water if you are involved in high level activity you will need socialise from time to time. If your good and don't socialise very occasionally you will go nuts. . .

There is a time where there are too many health monitors on the right side. Otherwise this game becomes a sim for doomsday preps! What if everyone I go up to to socialize with kills me. Do I eventually go nuts for not being a successful socializer and lose all of my gear?

[Doctor Invictus 0]

It's not really punishing people who kill just making them think twice about doing so

...by threatening them with punishment.

[r3dskull 14]

There is a time where there are too many health monitors on the right side. Otherwise this game becomes a sim for doomsday preps! What if everyone I go up to to socialize with kills me. Do I eventually go nuts for not being a successful socializer and lose all of my gear?

I agree too many health monitors Rocket has said he want to get rid them and replace them with some sort of "tells" (eg players doing a limping animation if they have lost a lot of blood) from your avatar and I think you could do this with the different stages.. If everyone kills you then you never go nuts because your status resets on death but the people who killed you may go nuts, if the kill everyone they meet.

...by threatening them with punishment.

Is sitting at a campfire with someone for five mins in every 4 to 12 hours or so (depending on your playstyle) of play a punishment? I'd like to think of it more as an ice breaker! Seeing as most people only live for an hour it won't even effect the majprity of players, it's just part of the meta game for more experienced players another stage in trying to stay alive!

[cb_the_tr00per 2]

i understand your point, its true that you cant stay alone in this hostile environment. 100% agreed...

But again in my opinion is it a players story and not the story of your virtual self/ingame character. How many times have you been into the woods at night without a nvg? pretty scary sometimes even if its "just" a game, or the other player encounters. And that is where the game should kick in, make it scarier create more situations that makes you paranoid, you as the player... Fear the virtual environment beggin your friends to play with you so you dont have to play alone.

Besides that your system would punish bandits... because survivors will never be affected on the same level. (why the hell does everybody want to punish bandits?)

The KoS problem, if you want to call it a problem can be solved in other ways.... I love the aspect of the game that there are people that shoot your for nothing than their pleasure, that adds tension to every step you make. But to be honest it goes too much into this direction or its too concentrated in the spawn area. First thing would be to remove all the kill counts from the game, you never know how many ppl you have killed, unless you write it down yourself. It should be harder to get geared up once you lost your life. Not the loot spawns but the tent and duping problem.... They just hold too much weapons and ammo right now.

The other problem is: i usually see bandit teams and survivor loners, they are simply better organized right now (from my point of view). Everybody calls bandits right out, ever seen a survivor trying to set up a trap for a bandit? Maybe a fake trade? Who kills a bandit and hides his body/destroys his equipment after? Especially for the snipers you have to fight the weapons they use not the person, they have a infinite spawn count, weapons dont spawn if you push a button in the game menu. So destroy their equipment....

Survivor should stay together if they want to solve this problem, but instead greedy mankind kills itself for a can of beans and a little nothing, just to have a bad feeling in your guts after.... In my opinion are they bandits too.

The main part of the solution for this is in the players hands, we have to fight them not the game mechanics.

The developers part is the duping, nobody is really scared of loosing his stuff as they have plenty in their tents, but remember that also a exploit that can be used by survivors... Thats a broken game mechanic that needs to be addressed...

Sorry for my bad english, if you find mistakes you can keep em....

Edited September 16, 2012 by (cB)the_tr00per

[birdman 108]

i usually see bandit teams and survivor loners. . .

Because there is no point in being in a survivor team right now. Organization has nothing to do with it. If your team gets attacked and some of them kill the other team members who haven't reached bandit status yet than they lose humanity.

If we drop bandit and survivor status and simply allow people to pick skins for themselves or their teams, than the players and players alone show how they will play, as a bandit or hero. The game won't tag them as bandits, the other players on the server will. Just look at the leader board to see who is doing the most PK-ing and you will see who the bandits are. Look and see who aided the most players and you will see who could be a friend. You can then know who's who based on reputation.

[Anemosology 18]

No thx, I like sniping you people with my AS50

Wow, you must be the strong silent type I head about! Better steer clear of you cool kids!

But seriously, do you find yourself any better runing the time of other people or is this what you feed on?

and, why can't you handle an added challenge? Must be easy for you if you're insisting on sounding cool on the internet.

[cb_the_tr00per 2]

Because there is no point in being in a survivor team right now. Organization has nothing to do with it. If your team gets attacked and some of them kill the other team members who haven't reached bandit status yet than they lose humanity.

The point is that you can hunt down these bandits. Thats enough motivation for me to team up and watch each others back....

If we drop bandit and survivor status and simply allow people to pick skins for themselves or their teams, than the players and players alone show how they will play, as a bandit or hero. The game won't tag them as bandits, the other players on the server will. Just look at the leader board to see who is doing the most PK-ing and you will see who the bandits are. Look and see who aided the most players and you will see who could be a friend. You can then know who's who based on reputation.

Agreed. The skins should be removed, or atleast you shouldnt get the bandit skin for self defense....

[Anemosology 18]

The point is that you can hunt down these bandits. Thats enough motivation for me to team up and watch each others back....

Agreed. The skins should be removed, or atleast you shouldnt get the bandit skin for self defense....

Maybe a strike system for self-defense? Like the game notifying one strike added, and next person killed will result in a second strike, then if the two bodies were looted thoroughly, then at the second kill you get the magic turban.

[Zeppa 562]

Maybe a strike system for self-defense? Like the game notifying one strike added, and next person killed will result in a second strike, then if the two bodies were looted thoroughly, then at the second kill you get the magic turban.

Stupid idea...

No one should get "punished" on anyway like this..

If hero doesnt help 1st wounded person in certain radius of him he gets strike?, second strike if you dont help a guy and you loose the hero skin?... really?

not exact opposite what you are proposing you get the point.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Zeppa

[apache25 133]

fairly good idea overall but i dont like the idea of losing mental health by killing players in self defense or losing mental health by looting dead bodies.

the campfire idea is a big no no it would punish lone wolves and people who didnt have friends that played dayz and its very hard to find a player who isnt a bandit or pointless killer

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

Not a fair argument as you have the whole internet way of thinking. Peolple grief, troll, and flame because they know they are immune to repercussion. So I will almost guarantee that 90% of people will end up PK-ing if the game stays as is. There is no perk to being good, no con to being bad. There is no reason to play as a team other than to camp n00bs and post "Let's Play" videos of it.

I am not saying your character should sob if he kills someone, but something should be in effect. Maybe a Red Dead Redemption style wanted meter? Extra loot for killing a notorious bandit? Extra loot for killing high level heros? Otherwise this is a survival PvP game with zombies for background noise (which a survival PvP has it's own merits but Day Z is not meant for that).

There is no repercution in a post apocalyptic world, nobody will put you in,jail or impose you psychological evaluations.

There is none of the societal pressure that COULD eventually get the weakest minds to collapse.

The only thing that could realistically happen to you is to devolve to an animal with the lack of human contact.

Which is precisely what is happening.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Lady Kyrah

[Hello moto 70]

I really like this idea, cos not many people would be able to blow another human beings brains out with a high powered and not eventually be affected by it... I suggest that during your life the effects that fill the bar become less pronounced as you would eventually become immune to it.

[AnAwesomeNinja 0]

Stage 2 would completely screw the game up, every time you see an animal you would have to be careful in case it's actually a player, or a zombie. you would see way too many zombies that look like players so when you actually saw a player you would think that they're a zombie and shoot them and lose more mental health. other than that i think it's a pretty good idea. also i think it would be kind of hard to play on a server with only a few people so there should probably be an option to turn this off.

[r3dskull 14]

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Edited January 5, 2013 by R3DSKULL

[Dayz Steve 26]

Great Idea,Meeting up with peeps could restore mental health

[GeneticFreak 23]

The idea is good, but the effects are too bizarre. And in reality being exposed with so much amorality and violence would numb you out at one point that you just become frigid, with no desire to meet or talk with other people (Rambo, anyone?) not randomly running around shouting or seeing stuff. Look at the symptoms of PTSD for example:

What are the symptoms of PTSD?

PTSD can cause many symptoms. These symptoms can be grouped into three categories:

1. Re-experiencing symptoms:

• Flashbacks—reliving the trauma over and over, including physical symptoms like a racing heart or sweating
  
• Bad dreams
  
• Frightening thoughts.
  

Re-experiencing symptoms may cause problems in a person’s everyday routine. They can start from the person’s own thoughts and feelings. Words, objects, or situations that are reminders of the event can also trigger re-experiencing.

2. Avoidance symptoms:

• Staying away from places, events, or objects that are reminders of the experience
  
• Feeling emotionally numb
  
• Feeling strong guilt, depression, or worry
  
• Losing interest in activities that were enjoyable in the past
  
• Having trouble remembering the dangerous event.
  

Things that remind a person of the traumatic event can trigger avoidance symptoms. These symptoms may cause a person to change his or her personal routine. For example, after a bad car accident, a person who usually drives may avoid driving or riding in a car.

3. Hyperarousal symptoms:

• Being easily startled
  
• Feeling tense or “on edge”
  
• Having difficulty sleeping, and/or having angry outbursts.
  

Hyperarousal symptoms are usually constant, instead of being triggered by things that remind one of the traumatic event. They can make the person feel stressed and angry. These symptoms may make it hard to do daily tasks, such as sleeping, eating, or concentrating.

It’s natural to have some of these symptoms after a dangerous event. Sometimes people have very serious symptoms that go away after a few weeks. This is called acute stress disorder, or ASD. When the symptoms last more than a few weeks and become an ongoing problem, they might be PTSD. Some people with PTSD don’t show any symptoms for weeks or months.

How to incorporate these into the game?

For one, these effects should happen to everyone eventually, both survivors and bandits. The fact that bandits are more exposed to violence only makes them more vulnerable to it, but being a survivor who is constantly being shot at (and survived) chased by zombies etc must also accumulate into mental disorder. Thus this is a fair system not "punishing" certain playstyle, simply makes everyone more cautious in everything they do and the choices they make. Bathing in blood either as the perp or the victim, should have effects on your avatar's head.

#2, these effects should not be gauged by bars or indicators but you should know when you have it, just like that cough indicates you have the flu.

#3, these effects are curable by consuming prozac or similar stuff, after you consume it you are immune to the effects (they don't happen at all) for a couple of hours or more

#4, as for the effects themselves:

- Eating disorders can be implemented by having food only filling half the hunger bar and healing half of what they usually do

- Hypervigilance/hyperarousal can be implemented by having something to trigger the character shrieking a little, heart racing and exhaustion. This effect should never happen "out of nowhere when you're camping for victim" or something stupid like that. It should be triggered by actual events such as: having multiple zombies suddenly aggroing you (that aargh sound), having a player shooting at you so close you can hear the bullets hit the ground (or actually being hit by the player). Your avatar would shriek (high pitched aieee), his heart races and suddenly his thirst and hunger bar gets lowered significantly.

- Anger outbursts can be implemented by having your character swearing, screaming, aim jittery (shaky aim) when and only when you are in a realistic to be angry, for example, shooting at a player and misses, prolonged "in combat" status (having guerilla warfare with other people), hungry/thirsty for a while without having any food or drink in inventory, or when shooting at 6 or more zombies in indoors in the same room as you.

- Flashbacks can be implemented as suddenly your screen turns black and white and you start hearing zombies and stuff when you approach or in a city (resembling areas that reminds you of trauma), it should take a few seconds to "shake it off" and thus might make you:

- Avoid the traumatic area since it reminds you of all the crazy stuff that goes on there

Before my post gets bashed down by the "cool kids" please remember, your avatar is meant to be just another human being, not some navy seal member who is immune to psychological abuse

Rocket has already implemented the "huffing and panting" part when you are hiding and many zombies are near you (you know what i'm talking about) so why not take it a step further into realism?

Edited January 6, 2013 by GeneticFreak

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

As someone who's been on the forums for ever now... We've had this whole argument before and boy was it a big one. And you're side lost.

sorry, it isn't going to happen

[Gordon Axeman 191]

GREAT WAY TO ELIMINATE ALL THE BANDITS!!!!

nothankyouverymuch.

[TomKesi 25]

I am already having halucinations in this game from time to time (paranoia?), so no, thanks :)

[Talibambi 119]

Punishing people for their playstyle shouldnt be done. If someone is a cold blooded killer, then they should have the right to be a cold blooded killer.

That said there are other ways to aleviate the KOS policy. An example being that players that kill bandits get buffs, or that you gain buffs over time. Just make it so that the buffs dont apply to anyone with a bandit skin. Meaning you can kill bandits and not lose your buffs, but bandits dont get the buffs.

Buffs for non-bandits could be things such as:

Quieter footsteps when running.

Silent footsteps when crouch walking. (meaning you dont have to roll around and gives the same zombie detection levels as if you were crawling)

Bigger main inventory capacity.

zombie agro range reduction (slightly.. 1/2 a meter or so).

More health (blood).

Hunger and thirst take longer to drain to critical levels. (perhaps 2x as long)

Bones break 2x as less and cannot be broken by zombies.

You are 2x less likely to bleed when taking damage.

The main point is that bandits should NOT be punished for KOS, but players who do NOT KOS should be rewarded.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Talibambi