Server Ban for AS50 TWS: Debate

[melted349 43]

I'm posting this in server general because I don't care to get the server admin in trouble. But I am interested in other player's thoughts on this. First off let me explain what I was doing. I did have an AS50 TWS in my possession, my clan found it off a script kiddie and we saved it in a tent so it's like a permanent supply of them anytime the server restarts. I was server hopping looking for other snipers (trying to up my bandit kills). Joining one of the Dallas servers, I was in for about 10 - 15 seconds and then I was kicked and banned with the reason stated being about the AS50TWS.

I don't blame a server admin for banning for this, as a server admin myself I considered the idea. The point of discussion here is whether its right or not to ban for having an "illegal" item in your inventory. Now if you go by the rules, then technically no, server admins do not have the right to ban a player from their server without proof that they are "hacking" aka using scripts. Well I wasn't hacking. I simply picked up the AS50 TWS from someone that did use a script to obtain it. So by the "official" rules, the server admin is in the wrong. However, it's extremely unfair to other players to be picked off by such a weapon. I mean, you can't really hide from this thing. It's a one shot kill, even if the shot hits the player in the foot, the distance is superior to just about any other weapon in the game. It's a huge advantage to the player that is carrying one over all other players without.

Before we get this debate going on what you think, whether its ok to ban players that have "illegal" items in their inventory, let me give out some scenarios that give support to both sides.

• Scenario 1: Normal player running around, comes across a tent (or vehicle or w/e) and finds an "illegal" item. Player is fairly new at the game and doesn't know this item doesn't spawn in on this game. Player obtains item, player is banned from that server. Home server or not, this player can no longer play on that server again.
  
• Scenario 2: Normal player that has multiple home servers. Normal player obtains "illegal" item (lets say the AS50 TWS) on Server A. Player is aware the item does not spawn in the game, but uses the item anyway. Player then leaves Server A and goes to Server B. Player is banned from Server B and is no longer allowed to play on that server. (Regardless if they get rid of the AS50 TWS)
  
• Scenario 3: Sketchy player, played the game awhile, very familiar with known bugs and exploits them for their benefit. Always has the best gear because they have multiple sets dupped in tents across various servers. Gradually, the player starts getting banned by servers that implement this auto-ban feature and the sketchy player is forced to find servers to play on that do not ban for "illegal" items.
  
• Scenario 4: Script Kiddie. N00b that got a hold of the latest scripts for AMRA 2 and it out to troll DayZ servers and ruin people's night for fun. Spawns into a server, gives himself the best equipment available (including "illegal" items), then is kicked and banned from that server for having such items. - Server thus has avoided being attached by this script kiddie
  
• PROS: Keeps the game balanced. Helps fight off script kiddies that spawn in "illegal" items. In the case of the AS50 TWS, fights off server hopping snipers
  
• CONS: New players can unknowingly pick up an "illegal" item and get banned from the server. Players with multiple home servers can get banned from one of their servers for having an "illegal" item in their inventory. And currently, server admins that do ban for this, are risking a possible blacklist for breaking posted rules.
  

So that's what I got, I'm curious to hear what others have to say and what they think about this topic. This is meant to be a debate and not a fight, keep that in mind.

Edited August 28, 2012 by melted349

[Cerven 80]

I think global banning is a little harsh - until you find a way to inhibit these sorts of weapons from showing up in the game entirely. At that point, the hive should do a wipe, and at that point you can begin banning for possessing these items. Right now, the fact that scenario 1 CAN happen is enough reason to not be doling out global bans to anyone.

However - I don't think there's anything wrong with server admins issuing warnings to people who they catch using these weapons on their server, and locally banning them if they disregard said warnings. The age old excuse of 'They just found it, and that isn't against the rules' doesn't wash with me. An AS50 TWS is 'extremely' overpowered on a night server, and servers shouldn't have to sit there and subject themselves to idiots using them just because they didn't spawn it on their particular server.

So ya, I think warnings and eventual bans are about as far as I'd go right now, even knowing that 90% of the people walking around with these weapons know full well that it's a hacked in weapon. So for now, I'm not going to vote because I think the choices are a little too limited.

And hey, can you get one of these threads locked? Probably the one without a poll.

[Fiskbatch 6]

It's too simple to just find someones tent/corpse and loot it for non-legit items. Auto-ban for such items is wrong, imo.

[melted349 43]

I think global banning is a little harsh - until you find a way to inhibit these sorts of weapons from showing up in the game entirely. At that point, the hive should do a wipe, and at that point you can begin banning for possessing these items. Right now, the fact that scenario 1 CAN happen is enough reason to not be doling out global bans to anyone.

However - I don't think there's anything wrong with server admins issuing warnings to people who they catch using these weapons on their server, and locally banning them if they disregard said warnings. The age old excuse of 'They just found it, and that isn't against the rules' doesn't wash with me. An AS50 TWS is 'extremely' overpowered on a night server, and servers shouldn't have to sit there and subject themselves to idiots using them just because they didn't spawn it on their particular server.

So ya, I think warnings and eventual bans are about as far as I'd go right now, even knowing that 90% of the people walking around with these weapons know full well that it's a hacked in weapon. So for now, I'm not going to vote because I think the choices are a little too limited.

And hey, can you get one of these threads locked? Probably the one without a poll.

Yeah I don't know what happened when I posted, one showed up with the poll and one didn't, I edited the other and deleted everything out of it.

Right now, as far as I know, there aren't any global bans for this. Unless you are caught spawning in the "Illegal" items. Local bans are the only thing I'm aware of. I think I agree with what you're saying, a straight up ban (even local) is a bit harsh. Perhaps a 3 - strike rule (easy enough to do in a script), 3 kicks (stating why you're being kicked) and after than a ban.

Some other food for thought though, this script is checking your inventory, everyone's inventory. While I think the admins don't have enough control over their server as it is, one could argue this could easily be configured to ban for allowable weapons and inventory that the server admin doesn't want on his server. For example, night vision. Or maybe the server admin doesn't want anyone running around with any DMRs. Pick up a DMR, boom, you're banned. The script itself starts to ride a thin line between ok, and not ok.

[suiside 20]

if you know it is not in game originally then don't have it.

when you are unaware of its legality in game then search, and do the right thing when the answer is found.

if you find a gun on the street and you take it home, is that a good thing to do ?

and don't tell me about it is just a game, because if it was just a game, hell then i guess god mode is just fine ?

spawners get a ban, see server logs first !

users who pick it up and use it while knowing (you can reasonably know and search) get kicked ?

Edited August 28, 2012 by sui

[metal (DayZ) 46]

I'm posting this in server general because I don't care to get the server admin in trouble.

There is not going to be any trouble for an admin, they can ban whoever they want for any reason and without any reason at all, regardless of any 'rules'.

Things like that should not be forbidden, they should be impossible to do. If the game allows it then it should not be punishable. Devs should reattach their hands from their asses back to their shoulders and fix the damn game. Or just ban everyone, because I really doubt that there are someone who still haven't used an item that was spawned by hackers or duped.

[Gogster (DayZ) 626]

It's not a global ban.

[ryahn 112]

Personally, it wont matter if ban a person with the weapon. You will always find someone with it regardless. I have killed a number of bandits who have had them, I just drop it in the ocean.

[melted349 43]

There is not going to be any trouble for an admin, they can ban whoever they want for any reason and without any reason at all, regardless of any 'rules'.

Things like that should not be forbidden, they should be impossible to do. If the game allows it then it should not be punishable. Devs should reattach their hands from their asses back to their shoulders and fix the damn game. Or just ban everyone, because I really doubt that there are someone who still haven't used an item that was spawned by hackers or duped.

I'm gonna try and keep this more in line with a debate. I do agree though, to think any admin is going to get in trouble at this point is ridiculous. Stand alone is in development and the attention giving to the mod is going to be a lot less, no one on the development team cares about admin abuse on the mod version of the game.

However, the impossible to do part, you have to understand what this is right now, it's a mod to another game. The "Illegal" items are legit items in ARMA 2. That's why they can be spawned in with the right scripts. And the game ARMA 2 was never all that popular until the mod was released, and the anti-cheat system has always been crap. This debate isn't so much about the flaws of the mod and how easily it can be hacked, but about items that aren't allowed in the mod, yet so many players have, or have had at some point. And whether having the items in your inventory should be a bannable offense.

[melted349 43]

Personally, it wont matter if ban a person with the weapon. You will always find someone with it regardless. I have killed a number of bandits who have had them, I just drop it in the ocean.

True, but you could say that if every server auto-banned for having an item that's not allowed in their inventory, then eventually you would no longer see any players running around with AS50 TWS or any other "Illegal" item.

[--------------- 24]

True, but you could say that if every server auto-banned for having an item that's not allowed in their inventory, then eventually you would no longer see any players running around with AS50 TWS or any other "Illegal" item.

What about the legit people who has this weapon??????

[ryahn 112]

True, but you could say that if every server auto-banned for having an item that's not allowed in their inventory, then eventually you would no longer see any players running around with AS50 TWS or any other "Illegal" item.

Touche, but then you will get those will make another bypass. So it will be a never ending battle.

[~HAWKEYE~ 8]

Any off these weapons I have found in game or my squad has found we simply make a fireplace......put the items into the inventory of the fire and then light the fire....If its not a item that spawns then it shouldn't be used imo.

BURN IT! :P

[LostS77 (DayZ) 15]

Banning for hacked items... Unless the Developers are going to release a confirmed what is and what isn't in the game (yes some sites say one thing, some say another) and keep it up-to-date, it is practically impossible. Do I like hacked items in the game, no... but I am not going to ban for them.

Now one thing the DayZ developers might want to consider doing, is adding a trigger to the DB's where if a write request comes in and in that request is an non-legit items, it removed that non-legit item from the save. So yes, people can use it while they are playing, but next time they log in it will be gone.

[metal (DayZ) 46]

This debate isn't so much about the flaws of the mod and how easily it can be hacked, but about items that aren't allowed in the mod, yet so many players have, or have had at some point. And whether having the items in your inventory should be a bannable offense.

In my opinion it should be not bannable to have in your possession or to use anything that you have legitimately obtained, no matter if it 'should' or 'should not' be in game.

[melted349 43]

What about the legit people who has this weapon??????

Well technically there aren't any legit players that have the AS50 TWS. You might not have spawned the item in, but someone did at some point. Saved it in a tent maybe, and you found the tent. However, weapons like the AS50 TWS do not spawn in the game naturally.

Touche, but then you will get those will make another bypass. So it will be a never ending battle.

Well based on this script, you couldn't bypass it. This is banning players by having the item code in their inventory. You cannot change this code. This item code is the same item code that is called when scripts run to spawn in a certain item. So as long as all servers ran this script, any time an item that wasn't allowed showed up in someone's inventory, they'd be banned and no longer on the server.

Any off these weapons I have found in game or my squad has found we simply make a fireplace......put the items into the inventory of the fire and then light the fire....If its not a item that spawns then it shouldn't be used imo.

BURN IT! :P

Lol nice. You do know "burning" it doesn't technically destroy the items right? But the items not save and will eventually disappear so I guess this works. I think I'm gonna have to start checking camp fires now for inventory lol.

Banning for hacked items... Unless the Developers are going to release a confirmed what is and what isn't in the game (yes some sites say one thing, some say another) and keep it up-to-date, it is practically impossible. Do I like hacked items in the game, no... but I am not going to ban for them.

Now one thing the DayZ developers might want to consider doing, is adding a trigger to the DB's where if a write request comes in and in that request is an non-legit items, it removed that non-legit item from the save. So yes, people can use it while they are playing, but next time they log in it will be gone.

Well said. And I agree that having checks on the DB for the "illegal" item names and removing those entries would be the best way to handle this. No bans that way, just players losing the illegal items from their inventory and tents. Is that ever gonna happen? Probably not, but we can all hope.

Edited August 28, 2012 by melted349

[metal (DayZ) 46]

True, but you could say that if every server auto-banned for having an item that's not allowed in their inventory, then eventually you would no longer see any players running around with AS50 TWS or any other "Illegal" item.

You could as well say that if every server auto-banned everyone who tries to log in then you would not see any cheaters at all.

[robciviccrx 28]

Personally I would give global bans for even picking anything up the isnt supposed to be in dayz, for now local bans will have to do :)

Edited August 28, 2012 by RobCivicCRX

[HavokFI 5]

I'm not sure, might be my imagination, but I think AS50 TWS actually WAS spawning in DayZ a long time ago. But then Rocket realized how overpowered it was and deleted AS50 TWS spawns, but people who already had them before that, got to keep them.

[~HAWKEYE~ 8]

Lol nice. You do know "burning" it doesn't technically destroy the items right? But the items not save and will eventually disappear so I guess this works. I think I'm gonna have to start checking camp fires now for inventory lol.

Actually they do remove since saving of inventory is bugged, I have burnt alot of things in fires and on reboot the item is actually not there anymore. So it does work lol

[straw 5]

My 2 home servers got a few camps which hold this weapon. There is alot of people who shoot as50 at night since. There is nothing admins & people can do besides banning people for picking one up or just start using them (probably setting tents on spawns up which hold 10 as50tws with 50x 10x107 rounds so everyone gets this weapon on spawn) (oh and I already thought about setting up a tent ) . Devs wont do nothinig since they work on standalone alpha :D

[Knight2000 (DayZ) 35]

Ban the one who runs the script to spawn the illegal items, not the ones that find them on a corpse or a tent.

[robciviccrx 28]

Ban the one who runs the script to spawn the illegal items, not the ones that find them on a corpse or a tent.

They are just as bad for using them.

[Charlotte (DayZ) 6]

Well, to help prevent 1 from happening (especially if you're going to issue bans for it), you could put a warning in the message that players see when they log in. Like... "You risk being banned if you have or pick up: AS50 TWS, G36, and [whatever other items you plan on banning for]."

Our server currently has no plans to ban for such things (edit: though if they did multiple things- like flying cows, thunderdome, etc and also have hacked gear, I will often list the hacked items as well as the other stuff in the reason for the ban), but I'm starting to see a lot more of those items pop up, so I may add a "FYI these are not legit items" in the server message to educate players & hope that they choose to hide the bodies with said items instead of using them.

edit2: The only reason we don't ban solely for it is because it's technically against the rules, at least how I interpret them. The moment the devs say admins can ban for having illegal items, I'll be banning for every illegal item from the TWS to soldier skin.

Edited August 29, 2012 by Charlotte

[ganjademon 51]

Ban them.

Using a hacked weapon is just a bad as hacking yourself.

They need to learn to play the game properly and not be lame ass bitches who need to cheat.

Oh and they need to die horribly, in fire or something.