AS50/M107 used against light armored infantry?

[Blindingsun 233]

Yes it's technically illegal, as in against the Geneva Convention, to use anything bigger than a 7.62 round in a human, along with land mines and chemical warefare. Not that it's truely something to worry about if the shit hits the fan, but it is generally looked down upon if it's blatantly done.

.50 cal was designed and is definately for light armor. For example, on a gunnery table for M1 Abrahms, you use the main gun, a M2 .50 cal machine gun and a 240C .762 coaxle machine gun. Each weapon is designed for specific targets and the 240C is the only gun that has troop targets. The same goes for an M2A3 ODS CFV. We had to use 240C on troop targets, not our 25MM.

Not sure about the cost as a bigger bullet should be an obvious indication that it's more expensive to make, although not conclusive as it's probably one of the most common made bullets across the world, along with the .762.

Then there is a matter of range to consider. If a .762 round could travel as far and as accurate as a .50 cal then I think we would see a difference in weaponry but as of yet, the .50 cal round shoots the farthest.

As far as gear goes, well as a scout we like to load up! To have a m82 Barrett with 2 m-4's, plus spotting equipment for a two man DM team is not unheard of. But depending on the mission, It could be 2 m14's and 2 m4's.

And Never EVER be surprised at the amount of bullshit you have to carry in the US Army lol.

as far as I know the world distance record is not held on a 50.cal?

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

Yes it's technically illegal, as in against the Geneva Convention

Which article is that?

Oh, nevermind. Found this:

Legend has it that the .50-caliber is so powerful that the Geneva Conventions prohibit U.S. troops from using it against human targets, but does that make sense considering it is okay to fire much larger artillery shells against enemy troops?

[...]

In truth, neither the 1949 Geneva Conventions nor other laws governing the conduct of war forbid U.S. troops from using the weapon against enemy fighters, said Gary D. Solis, an adjunct law professor at Georgetown University.

Edited August 20, 2012 by ZedsDeadBaby

[Timppa 5]

If the game was ultra realistic then nobody would play it.

This is not about realism, this is about gameplay. Having insta-kill weapons is only bad for the gameplay, and making them more realistic is the best way to get rid of that problem.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Timppa

[Jex =TE= (DayZ) 218]

Both the M107 and the AS50 weigh about 14kg's which is pretty heavy. Having just found an AS50 in game, I'm amazed at how steady they are in the crouched and prone (unsupported) positions. Crouched you barely notice any movement at all. Holding ur breath I assume will take even that away. This needs to be changed. I suggest the devs get hold of one and see how well they can hold it on a target without even firing. After that they should try firing from the crouched and prone and note the recoil. If u make a military sim game, ffs spend some time with the weapons ur modeling!!

[The_Albatros 72]

I'm pretty sure it's been classed as unethical to use against infantry, and banned by the Geneva conventions.

But this is DayZ. Atleast you know once you hit someone with it they're down for good.

[Sontana 8]

yeah...airbourne...61kg - weapon,ammo and water

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

I'm pretty sure it's been classed as unethical to use against infantry, and banned by the Geneva conventions.

Holy shit we JUST fucking talked about this.

No, it hasn't.

[elasticz 35]

This is not about realism, this is about gameplay. Having insta-kill weapons is only bad for the gameplay, and making them more realistic is the best way to get rid of that problem.

This thread isn't about nerfing .50cals because of the damage. Learn to read and don't derail.

[Horrible_Sniper 11]

I would.

And: wind effects + a weight/sizebased inventory + stamina

a.k.a ACE. I love playing DayZ Lingor with ACE on the server, it's a refreshing experience, knowing you can't run forever, and the people who are lighter with priority gear and not everything they see will be able to go farther, as well as there being windage added into the game, making sniping hilarious for people who don't know how to calibrate for it.

[Darkwater (DayZ) 63]

I thiiiink this has sidetracked just slightly. Let's not take the real world counterpart and laws into the lawless world of DayZ. I, like probably all of you, would've used a AS50/M107 against hostile survivors if we were in the situation, but I wouldn't sit on the outskirts of a large town and attempt shoot any and all I saw, nor go hunting for people in the forests nearby, due to moral, ethical aswell as ammo preservation reasons.

This is about the ingame guns, not how they are overpowered, but rather overused because of the ease of procurement and sustaining ammo for them, when they are meant to be hard to come by. I realize it right now might be because of dupings and server hopping, but even if that's the case they need to be altered. They are far to easy to aim with, far to "unpunishing" in their use (like the clip above, there was a nice little puff of smoke there which is completely absent ingame) in general they're too easy to kill with. One hit kills are fine, hell.. it's a damn big slug of metal hitting you there and dying in place of surviving after being hit by that is a blessing in my opinion.

If that alteration is through realism, then fine. Add wind conditions and that you HAVE to have the correct gear to read wind and other conditions in order to be an effective sniper. Just having distance and zeroing just isn't enough. The guns also have a massive recoil, shouldn't that add to projectile trajectory? What about muzzle damage? For sake of gameplay, they obviously shouldn't last as long as real world guns, being engineered to last thousands of shots. But making them less accurate over time and having to get replacement parts. Every gun spawning with some flaw and the option of taking apart the good parts. There's lots and lots to do, and lots and lots that can be done to make "overpowered" weapons weaker and make players slightly more reluctant to overuse them.

[Demon20 46]

It is not against the Geneva Conventions...that's a big ol' myth. The Geneva Conventions concern themselves with the treatment of enemy prisioners of war, not the rules of Land Warfare. Those are traditionally handled by the Haque Conventions. And use of the .50 caliber round is not covered.

Every military worth their salt uses the .50 cal. .50 cal sniper platforms are a relatively recent addition, but that does not change the realities. They are just a plaform for accurately placing a single round on a target at range. Optics, platform stability, precision...only difference between the AS50 and an M2. The .50 cal is a great round, found in many applications in the world. By many armies. And yes, snipers carry them along with their other weapons. And no, they are not that heavy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_International_AS50). 27lbs isn't much. I used to jump the M60 and a spare barrell for it. Weight isn't what people think it is.

I would say this, as far as DayZ is concerned, a better inventory system would help. You can't just "throw" an AS50 into an Alice Pack. So there's your fix. Reality. There is a company that makes gear for that actual use (http://www.eberlestock.com/).

So, perhaps when the Stand Alone hits, maybe there will be equipment that will facilitate it. For now, easy fix, weapon systems should have more "realistic" inventory properities. Between weight and size restrictions, you'd probably see a shift in game play away from what most people complain about.

Out.

[JamesR 74]

The ammo should take up more room. 3 rounds of .50BMG is the size of a STANAG magazine! Each mag should take at least 2 inventory slots.

[Timppa 5]

This thread isn't about nerfing .50cals because of the damage. Learn to read and don't derail.

The OP doesn't want the damage to be nerfed, that doesn't mean the damage is not the reason for why some kind of a nerf is needed in the first place. (And the extreme damage is exactly what makes the .50 cals so overpowered).

Now that you mention, I really wouldn't want try firing a .50 cal rifle (possibly indoors, which currently is possible, albeit unrealistic) with no hearing protection whatsoever. I cannot see an average person hitting a target with a 13-kg rifle while standing either. So I do agree with both of the points, since currently the .50 cal has no downside at all. The best way to nerf it is would probably be restricting it to prone position only by reducing the stability.

[Drey 5]

Just add some shake when holding it in crouch and standing positions. That's authentic.

[Mr. Church 10]

you want reality? go to the army :P

I love being with my AS50 in a backpack to wait in a bush and then screaming to shoot my victims with an ax

and don't forget the zombies - that is the true reality

Edited August 20, 2012 by Mr. Church

[Toilet 204]

I prefer the DMR over the AS50 and the M107. I don't think they should be removed from the game at all, but it is shit that they are probably the most common weapon in game at the moment due to duping. Once the duping is gone and their rarity is back to what it used to be they won't be as much of a pain in the ass.

[usszim 35]

I don't know if this can be implemented, but how about a large amount of sway (as if you had just been running) if it is not fired from the prone position?

[gbrabsf 0]

This is one one of the most stupid threads I've ever seen, to be honest.

What's up with the utterly retarded argument of these weapons being "illegal"? So you guys really think dayz is set on a world filled with white knights? It's a god damn zombie apocalypse, and people could care less about morality.

Both the AS50 and the M107 weigh aproximately 12kg. It's perfectly realistic to carry it around on your backpack (the coyote and alice backpack are huge) or even on your hand. Why the hell should it take the backpack slot? And even worse, secondary weapon slot? Is this some kind of comedy show or something? Geez.

Is it unrealistic that a person would carry a 12kg weapon around having a dissassembled weapon at their backpack with some ammo and also carrying pistol at their holster? REALLY?

I agree it is meant to fire from prone position. ARMA is very kind only making the AS50 and M107 one-shot-kills. No one would survive an SVD or M24 shot either, but still, you can survive if it's not a headshot.

You guys have no idea how difficult it is to snipe. If you got your ass shot, you either suck or you were not paying attention. Not to talk about those retarded servers with ridiculous view distances (like 500m or so). Wanna talk about snipers, eh? Fine, do it when we snipers are able to see at a realistic distance first. Playing with sniper rifles is a playstyle Some people like to run around with a shotgun or an automatic rifle. We like to snipe. And if a .50 caliber sniper rifle can't 1 shot kill, I can't see why any other gun would. Why don't you guys ask rocket to replace every gun with paintball weapons? Then everyone would have fun and nobody would die :D:D:D:D: xD

[Almighti 1]

THIS IS A GAMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE..... nuff said.

[JamesR 74]

This is one one of the most stupid threads I've ever seen, to be honest.

What's up with the utterly retarded argument of these weapons being "illegal"? So you guys really think dayz is set on a world filled with white knights? It's a god damn zombie apocalypse, and people could care less about morality.

Both the AS50 and the M107 weigh aproximately 12kg. It's perfectly realistic to carry it around on your backpack (the coyote and alice backpack are huge) or even on your hand. Why the hell should it take the backpack slot? And even worse, secondary weapon slot? Is this some kind of comedy show or something? Geez.

Is it unrealistic that a person would carry a 12kg weapon around having a dissassembled weapon at their backpack with some ammo and also carrying pistol at their holster? REALLY?

I agree it is meant to fire from prone position. ARMA is very kind only making the AS50 and M107 one-shot-kills. No one would survive an SVD or M24 shot either, but still, you can survive if it's not a headshot.

You guys have no idea how difficult it is to snipe. If you got your ass shot, you either suck or you were not paying attention. Not to talk about those retarded servers with ridiculous view distances (like 500m or so). Wanna talk about snipers, eh? Fine, do it when we snipers are able to see at a realistic distance first. Playing with sniper rifles is a playstyle Some people like to run around with a shotgun or an automatic rifle. We like to snipe. And if a .50 caliber sniper rifle can't 1 shot kill, I can't see why any other gun would. Why don't you guys ask rocket to replace every gun with paintball weapons? Then everyone would have fun and nobody would die :D :D:D:D: xD

You think a M107 will fit into a backpack?? Have you ever seen one????

[bazbake 456]

27 pounds, or the weight of the M107, is equivalent to the weight of three Dragunov SVDs or two rocket launchers. If anyone seriously thinks this gun should be in the primary weapon slot or taking up the same room in your backpack as a shotgun, you seriously haven't been paying attention. On size alone, there's not a single backpack in the game that would be large enough to hold that thing.

Arma II's inventory system is nonsense and people defending the game's mechanics for this weapon are bad and they should feel bad.

Edited August 20, 2012 by BazBake

[arkod 9]

I'd like to see damage increase for other snipers, like from 8000 to 10000 and make AS50/m107 carryable only on backpack slot.

[VVired 27]

Agreed. Those rifles are huge and they do require a 2-man team. :| I have never seen a real USMC soldier carrying 2 sniper rifles in my life.

I bet even they shake their head when they see this. It's like "omg, i cant believe it."

I don't think you quite understand the offense you committed by calling a marine a soldier.

But back on topic, I think it'd be cool if the shooter gets shock if he ever shoots a large-caliber rifle when not proned (just because of the immense recoil. Pretty sure in real life someone could break a bone doing that).

[NFK 102]

The bigger issue is that Day Z needs an encumbrance system. Currently all items are weightless and have only volume properties (number of slots they take in active inventory/backpack/primary/secondary/tool belt/optics). If you want equipment choices to have consequences, weights need to be assigned. Then people will have to make compromises to their inventory in order to carry big guns, or face speed penalties.

If this was combined with a fatigue system, then inventory management would become a crucial skill all players would have to learn. (As in player skill, not a skill tree, don't freak out).

[kmach1ne 15]

I think they should take out one of the .50's and make one even more rare than they already are but add more, I guess, "common" military rifles like the SV-98 (russian), Bor, M40, etc. As many have said, it's really overkill and really hurts the realism of the game when everyone and their brother has a .50cal.

However; if cars are more common and fuel is scarce, the .50cal will hold a more appropriate role to disable vehicles.