People who play 3rd person

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I had a feeling this thread would decend into the everlasting first vesus third debate.

The exploit is purposely looking over walls or around corners. Simply seeing more is not an exploit, but when you go out of your way to use a system the way it wasn't intended, that to me is exploitation. I doubt the ARMA2 developers intended you to use it in that way.

The debate about field of view.... okay sure, but you know you can change that right? Not just double tapping - but also that FOV guide someone posted. And if a realistic field of view is a deal breaker for you, you could always get 3 monitors and have a rediculous field of view in front of your eyes. And then there's the white dots on the edges of your screen, which are borderline hacks.

Edited August 17, 2012 by bad_mojo

[Heiduk 265]

You'll be grateful of third person when the zombies get beefed up and actual non pvp content gets added that requires stealth. I'd love to see someone try to sneak up on a player in the control tower of the NW airfield without third person. Or even sneak through a town of zombies without pulling aggro. Bonus points if they can do either without being shot by other players.

This post nicely illustrates the problem with saying that both 1st and 3rd person are equally valid ways to play, when in fact they are two completely different games. Sure in theory the developers could design the game in such a way that both play styles encounter similar experiences and challenges but in practice it would be much easier to just pick one and design the game around it.

Now either nut up or shutup.

[Blindingsun 233]

OFC the arma2 devs intended it for that use. have you even PLAYED the arma2 campaign? loads of times I peek over walls.

and with regards to the 3 monitors.. you gonna pay to have my alcove extended and pay for my 2nd graphics card and 2 more monitors? no I didn't think so

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

Deus Ex.

Deus Ex: Invisible War.

Deus Ex: Human Revolution except while in cover.

Thief Series

Bioshock Series

System Shock

Condemned Series

Dishonored

Dark Messiah of Might and Magic

Mirror's Edge

I guess I should have said "good" games. I also said tactics. None of those titles are even close to open world or sandbox and all of which force a player through a series of levels while on rails and most of the stealth is some basic scripted event thrown in to mix up the game play. Besides Mirror's Edge and Bioshock, I doubt any of those other games sold well enough to even support a multiplayer experience for long.

Some of you should google peripheral vision and then wonder why you prefer to play games with blinders on.

[baz (DayZ) 19]

That's exactly what 3rd person is for. How can using a view as intended be an exploit? You'll be grateful of third person when the zombies get beefed up and actual non pvp content gets added that requires stealth. I'd love to see someone try to sneak up on a player in the control tower of the NW airfield without third person. Or even sneak through a town of zombies without pulling aggro. Bonus points if they can do either without being shot by other players.

Third person might not be realistic but neither is running around in a zombie apocalypse with a box taped to ones head. This debate is older than most of the people on this forum and I pray the devs are smarter than a bunch of whiny children that think using third person as intended is some type of exploit.

To be honest, I have never used 3rd person. I played for several weeks before I knew there was a third person, and I still don't even know how to engage it simply because I'm not interested. I have seen many videos with it though and it just seems to ruin the suspense of the fog of war.

And I would hate to have the game made easier just by changing my viewpoint. For example... I hear footsteps coming down the street around the corner. How geared out is the person? How many are there? Is he bleeding? Is he being chased? Bandit skin? With 3dp, I could just unrealistically look and if I want to shoot, basically pre-aim where he is and pop out, must like a wall hack in old school counterstrike or quake. But to me, just like using a wallhack or whatever, it's completely missing the point of playing the game (any game). It's the fear of the unknown that gets the blood and adrenaline pumping!

Crawling through a zombie infested field with grass in your face and the sounds of walkers all around you, most of which you cannot see, is a real thrill. And it helps to know that everyone else on the server is having similar experiences.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Some of you should google peripheral vision and then wonder why you prefer to play games with blinders on.

I also prefer to playing just before midnight(before the moon rises, when it's darkest) with a flashlight. It's about the immersion for me. If I can get turned around in cherno and not know my north from south, that's fun to me. If I run straight into a zombie because I didn't see him, that's fun for me. If I have to frantically look around while walking through towns to make sure I didn't pull aggro, that's fun for me.

It's not always about 100% super realistic, for me it's about the experience I get from playing the game, playing in third person just totally disconnects me from that experience. No longer do I feel like I'm being attacked, rather the character on the screen is being attacked and I have remote control of him/her.

To each their own.

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

This post nicely illustrates the problem with saying that both 1st and 3rd person are equally valid ways to play, when in fact they are two completely different games. Sure in theory the developers could design the game in such a way that both play styles encounter similar experiences and challenges but in practice it would be much easier to just pick one and design the game around it.

Now either nut up or shutup.

Every third person shooter I've ever played allowed people to play in first person. As it's been said again and again in this thread, FP has it's uses. Use third person or not, I could care less. It's the FP crowd that wants to force their ideal game view on everyone else.

This game is a third person shooter designed on a third person shooter but gives server admins the ability to turn off third person. Don't like? Play on FP only servers. I'd rather enjoy the game as intended than play the game in a terrible view designed for arena style games.

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

To be honest, I have never used 3rd person. I played for several weeks before I knew there was a third person, and I still don't even know how to engage it simply because I'm not interested. I have seen many videos with it though and it just seems to ruin the suspense of the fog of war.

And I would hate to have the game made easier just by changing my viewpoint. For example... I hear footsteps coming down the street around the corner. How geared out is the person? How many are there? Is he bleeding? Is he being chased? Bandit skin? With 3dp, I could just unrealistically look and if I want to shoot, basically pre-aim where he is and pop out, must like a wall hack in old school counterstrike or quake. But to me, just like using a wallhack or whatever, it's completely missing the point of playing the game (any game). It's the fear of the unknown that gets the blood and adrenaline pumping!

Crawling through a zombie infested field with grass in your face and the sounds of walkers all around you, most of which you cannot see, is a real thrill. And it helps to know that everyone else on the server is having similar experiences.

Easier? Not really but I don't play with crosshairs, ever. I choose to play on servers without them because crosshairs in FP or TP is probably the cheapest thing in the game.

It helps to know everyone else on the server is having the similar experience? I don't crawl around ever so chances are other players are not either. So even if I was forced into FP I wouldn't play that way. Zombies are not a threat in FP or TP. It sounds more like you're roleplaying than anything. Which is cool by the way.

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

I also prefer to playing just before midnight(before the moon rises, when it's darkest) with a flashlight. It's about the immersion for me. If I can get turned around in cherno and not know my north from south, that's fun to me. If I run straight into a zombie because I didn't see him, that's fun for me. If I have to frantically look around while walking through towns to make sure I didn't pull aggro, that's fun for me.

It's not always about 100% super realistic, for me it's about the experience I get from playing the game, playing in third person just totally disconnects me from that experience. No longer do I feel like I'm being attacked, rather the character on the screen is being attacked and I have remote control of him/her.

To each their own.

Same. I love playing at night. I know those lives are short but sneaking around with only a flashlight while knowing the light can attract players is probably the best fun I've had in this game. This makes the game much harder even in third person. It's definitely easy to get turned around in the woods and I love that. I just wish the flashlight beam wouldn't go through objects. I'll crank the music up and walk around. The further north the better as I find it impossible to get lost in Cherno or Elektro or anywhere on the coast now. Night play is the only time I've found the zombies even remotely interesting after learning how to play. Trying to run from them in the pitch black with the flashlight swinging is intense. This is hands down the best way to explore the map for a little PVE action, no matter what view you're in.

[capitainedesolation@yahoo.fr 119]

I use first person while in towns, in firefights, indoors, where I need precise mouse movements (like when an item on the floor is glitching out, or when I need to get in a well hidden tent that can only be accessed by a certain angle, etc) and while driving cars and choppers.

I use third person when running in the wilderness, more awareness for camps/crashed choppers/deer stands/vehicles, you name it, and driving every 2 wheel vehicle (also the ATV), I cannot seem to be able to drive any 2 wheel vehicle in first person. I also use 3rd person when in passenger seat of vehicles, to of course have more awareness.

[This has maybe already been said in the thread, but I didn't read all of it, it's midnight and I'm tired...]

I also read somewhere that 3rd person was in arma because it adds the situational awareness that a FPS cannot reproduce (We have way higher FOV irl than any normal screen can reproduce, and we can also move our eyes around).

Edited August 17, 2012 by MeDuzZ-

[syncmaster (DayZ) 63]

-Turn off head bob (options>game options) I see people complain that they get motion sick if they play in first person, turning off head bob will prevent that.

NO, it won't.. I've read enough replies to see I'm not the only one that 1st person makes sick in this game, and it has nothing to do with head bob.. I can't play long in 1st without feeling dizzy like I'm going to vomit. Its only the 2nd game I've ever played in my 20+ years of gaming that has ever done that to me. Including playing waaay too many hours of FPS including many long marathon sessions.

No surprise that people take the most legitimate complaint in this thread and ignore it.

[bazbake 456]

Deus Ex.

Deus Ex: Invisible War.

Deus Ex: Human Revolution except while in cover.

Thief Series

Bioshock Series

System Shock

Condemned Series

Dishonored

Dark Messiah of Might and Magic

Mirror's Edge

I guess I should have said "good" games. I also said tactics. None of those titles are even close to open world or sandbox and all of which force a player through a series of levels while on rails and most of the stealth is some basic scripted event thrown in to mix up the game play. Besides Mirror's Edge and Bioshock, I doubt any of those other games sold well enough to even support a multiplayer experience for long.

Can't tell if serious...

"Well, I guess I should have made myself clear. I meant published games made by guys named Rocket on the Arma II engine..."

Okay, champ.

[bazbake 456]

I use first person while in towns, in firefights, indoors, where I need precise mouse movements (like when an item on the floor is glitching out, or when I need to get in a well hidden tent that can only be accessed by a certain angle, etc) and while driving cars and choppers.

I use third person when running in the wilderness, more awareness for camps/crashed choppers/deer stands/vehicles, you name it, and driving every 2 wheel vehicle (also the ATV), I cannot seem to be able to drive any 2 wheel vehicle in first person. I also use 3rd person when in passenger seat of vehicles, to of course have more awareness.

[This has maybe already been said in the thread, but I didn't read all of it, it's midnight and I'm tired...]

I also read somewhere that 3rd person was in arma because it adds the situational awareness that a FPS cannot reproduce (We have way higher FOV irl than any normal screen can reproduce, and we can also move our eyes around).

Actually, a normal screen can easily produce the 135 degree field of vision in a normal human. What's hard is peripheral vision (the trick is, 3rd person doesn't increase peripheral vision, it just moves the camera from your head to behind your character. The only peripheral vision you have access to is the area next to your feet.

[magrathea 11]

Easier? Not really

You don't think being able to see through/around walls and from a standing viewpoint while prone, makes the game easier?...umm

[MisterMisterPlzDontShoot 8]

Has OP figured out the difference between an exploit and something that is part of the game, yet?

Oh, OK, I'll be back later.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I consider looking over objects an exploit. Just like I consider alt-f4'ing while being shot at to be an exploit. As well as using the scripting system for non-intended purposes. Those things are all part of the game, but they're not being used the way Rocket intends us to use them. You use them to circumvent the difficulty of the game, which is exploitation of the system.

I don't give a shit if people use 3rd person, it doesn't effect me much. But, the debate is going on so I threw in my opinion on the subject.

MisterMister, are you seriously trying to say that parts of games can never be exploited? LOL

@syncmaster yeah I should have added the word help in there. "Turning off headbob will help prevent it" I didn't mean to imply it was a miracle cure for everyone.

To the "what tactical game doesn't let you use third person?" question.... Project Reality. It's a battlefield2 mod, removing third person was one of the first changes they made. http://www.realitymod.com I suggest people check it out if they like teamwork oriented PVP tactical shooter type games. Rocket has even mentioned it a few times in his posts here.

Edit: I also believe the project reality arma2 mod disables the third person, but not 100% sure on that.

Edited August 17, 2012 by bad_mojo

[gizm0 96]

I see a lot of complaints that it should be removed, and I'm fine with it being removed if we can add the new leaning system from arma 3 into dayz since it provides a more realistic peaking system as well as ordering everyone a TrackIR4 ;)(dayz bundle)

Edited August 17, 2012 by Orthus

[dsi24 227]

I guess I should have said "good" games. I also said tactics. None of those titles are even close to open world or sandbox and all of which force a player through a series of levels while on rails and most of the stealth is some basic scripted event thrown in to mix up the game play. Besides Mirror's Edge and Bioshock, I doubt any of those other games sold well enough to even support a multiplayer experience for long.

Some of you should google peripheral vision and then wonder why you prefer to play games with blinders on.

Wow you're trolling.

I see a lot of complaints that it should be removed, and I'm fine with it being removed if we can add the new leaning system from arma 3 into dayz since it provides a more realistic peaking system as well as ordering everyone a TrackIR4 ;)(dayz bundle)

The guy who is working for BIS on ArmA3's animations got that job because he made SMK, a huge movement mod for ArmA2.

Edited August 17, 2012 by Dsi1

[bazbake 456]

A lot of people have never heard of the concept "Not the Way it is Meant to be Played." Not saying that first person is the only way this game can be played, but I can assure people that just because something is possible in a game does not mean the game isn't broken when people rely on it.

[KField86 237]

Traveling = 3rd person. Combat = 1st person. Always. I cannot stand running 8k+ meters in first person. I much prefer 3rd person, and using alt. In fact, I bound one of my side mouse buttons to free look so I can still serpentine while free looking. Very helpful when you have to cross open terrain.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

I remember having this exact debate on the project reality forums and somebody posted this dev diary video from one of the arma2 developers, he talks a bit about first & third person view @ 2:20

[outlawbigpappa 17]

I prefer Third Person cause I could see over walls and around them without putting my self at risk.

[Zombie Jesus 723]

This thread is full of pretentious morons who think they are special and know how everyone else should play. Lets start off by saying both playstyles are legitimate and if you can't agree to that then you are just a douchebag. If you prefer FP guess what, they have servers with 3rd person locked. If you whine that they are low population it sounds like you understand that many people do not enjoy FP only, yet your brilliant solution to this issue is drive players off the game by forcing your viewpoint.

I enjoy both and if I log into a FP only server ill play and enjoy the added challenge, but it is not that realistic. Echo location sucks, FOV is narrow, and no way to peek over ledges or corners easily (which we can realistically do IRL im not saying the hover look of 3rd person). You guys are role playing which is cool, but stop acting as though your playstyle is the "pure" play style and all others are cheating newbs with zero skill. Also it is NOT AN EXPLOIT. If you are on a 3rd person server it is available for everyone so no one has an advantage.

Get over yourselves you self righteous asshats, nobody gives a shit about your feeling of self importance.

Edited August 18, 2012 by Megatron

[Cooperal 16]

I do wish there was a middle-ground to even out the advantages of 3rd person. And I do have a solution that has little been seen in games from the past.

To try and put it basically, everything that you'd be able to to see from 1st person appears as normal. The environment that you wouldn't be able to see from 1st person is discoloured and blurred. With any mobile entities like people and vehicles being invisible entirely until out of the blur (viewable fom 1st person). The blur wouldn't be so intense that you'd feel strangled, but certainly enough to acknowledge.

Here I've pulled a picture from google images. Note the commonly known advantage of seeing threats undetected using a disembodied view.

Here I've altered the picture (a million hours in Paint) to vaguely demonstrate what I'm trying to describe. The difference from this picture is that the greyed area would instead be blurred and discoloured, with the man in the distance giving no visual indication at all.

The pros:

-3rd person players are far less likely to supernaturally percieve threats.

-People can get a good understanding of spatial awareness without giving themselves a breaking advantage.

-The partial blur can help new players learn about cover that veterans already had memorised.

The cons:

-The behavior of the blur would intially be disorienting. Especially where foliage is concerned.

-Some players may still suffer over others due to their selected field of view.

Edit: I should also make a point that I'm suggeting this as a TERTIARY view mode. Not a replacement for the well-liked, current 3rd person.

Edited August 18, 2012 by Cooperal

[DarkwaveDomina 1099]

I used to hate the first person view, but then I gave it a proper go and I kind of liked it once I got used to it. I came down from that small high, however, when I realised that sometimes you need all the help you can get when zombies have random moments of telepathy.

I got sick to death of catching zombie agro from ten feet away with no bars of visibility or audibility. At least third person gives me time to react.