Changes to female characters

[brandt 0]

Yep these people clearly are average citizens with no training' date=' I could just walk down the street pick up a dmr and shoot someone at 600m no sweat. The characters are far from average people. They can run the length of Chernarus without stopping which is like 15Km and fire a wide variety of weapons accurately and proficiently as well as showing the ability to survive off the land. If this is what you consider average...

[/quote']

Well technically it's still an alpha with no background story but the way I see it is that the survivors are regular average citizens trying to survive the problems and obstacles a zombie apocalypse would put in front of them.

And figuring out how to shoot weapons is not that hard, I believe that a person would try really hard to figure out how to use an AK74 or even a dmr by the process of try and error during a zombie apocalypse. The real problems start when you have weapon malfunctions or when you have to clean the weapons, but that is not simulated in this mod anyways.

Stamina is also something I would like to see implemented in this mod, but that is a different topic.

---

I trained as both an NZ Army and RNZAF (Air Force) Officer. As part of that training' date=' I did my NZ Army Officer training, RNZAF Officer Training, and I also did the Singaporean Armed Forces Infantry Officer training on exchange.

During that time, I saw the female cadets treated exactly the same as the male cadets and carrying just as much. The NZ Army (and the Israeli Military I might add) makes no distinction between Male and Female.

Whatever my thoughts were before training, after training there was no doubt in me that a tough woman is just as tough as a tough man. Overcoming adversity is just as much about your mental resilience as physical.

Anyway, as I've said before, I'm striving for authenticity (the suspension of disbelief) rather than realism. I admit we're not at that point yet, but I think we're well on the way.

[/quote']

During my time in the Polish Army Officer training I saw the complete opposite, females where weaker and of course they had much lower goals to pass on tests than the male cadets. Females also had first priority to get in to courses and they always had spots reserved for them even though their results where much worse. All this in the name of gender equality.

I guess that the approach to women serving in the NZ Armed Forces is a little bit more sane than the one in the Polish military. But anyways let's leave our military backgrounds out of this because I am sure that there are tons of stuff to write about. :)

What I am aiming at is that if DayZ is supposed to depict average citizens trying to survive in a zombie apocalypse then some parts of the female characters should be limited.

But, since you are the developer I am sure that you have a mental picture of how you want DayZ to be in the future, I am also sure that you have some ideas to a background story for DayZ. If that includes the survivors being ex-soldiers, both male and female trained to the standards of NZ Officers then my arguments become invalid.

I would like the background story to portray the struggle for survival of average civilians, but that is just my humble hope for the background story.

[Rico (DayZ) 99]

I like to see femele characters in DayZ

[Razor (DayZ) 0]

During my time in the Polish Army Officer training I saw the complete opposite' date=' females where weaker and of course [b']they had much lower goals to pass on tests than the male cadets. Females also had first priority to get in to courses and they always had spots reserved for them even though their results where much worse.

All this in the name of gender equality.

I don't understand this gibberish.

[brandt 0]

I like to see femele characters in DayZ

Well good for you that you like boys playing as girls in DayZ...

Please avoid offtopic posts like this one. Discuss and come with arguments regarding the topic or don't write at all.

---

During my time in the Polish Army Officer training I saw the complete opposite' date=' females where weaker and of course [b']they had much lower goals to pass on tests than the male cadets. Females also had first priority to get in to courses and they always had spots reserved for them even though their results where much worse.

All this in the name of gender equality.

I don't understand this gibberish.

Maybe because there is no logic behind it? In many countries the armed forces are forced to take in women because the politicians believe that it's popular with "gender equality", many times the women don't meet current standards so the solution is to lower them, but only for women...

But again, this is going offtopic. Women are in DayZ now and I am not advocating for a removal from the mod, only some nerfing to carrying and shooting capacity.

[Rico (DayZ) 99]

I like to see femele characters in DayZ

Well good for you that you like boys playing as girls in DayZ...

Please avoid offtopic posts like this one. Discuss and come with arguments regarding the topic or don't write at all.

There is no need to respond as you did' date=' if one went off topic, it does not to get dirty your nice…thread :P

I accidentally deleted the text that followed my intervent, i wanted to say that:

"I like to see femele characters in DayZ

do not see why should be weakened? for example who play with a femel skin, in the video, play as all the other, but is a guy, he choose a different skin, why should give him handicap???"

Like you said, someone even if man could play with a female skin

without necessarily having to be gay, but just because he likes the look

so…no to nerf who chois a skin, bandit, femele, goat etc :D

During my time in the Polish Army Officer training I saw the complete opposite, females where weaker and of course they had much lower goals to pass on tests than the male cadets. Females also had first priority to get in to courses and they always had spots reserved for them even though their results where much worse.

Maybe because there is no logic behind it? In many countries the armed forces are forced to take in women because the politicians believe that it's popular with "gender equality", many times the women don't meet current standards so the solution is to lower them, but only for women...

And about Man vs Femele…

I can assure you that there are women, Policewomen in my country

that have nothing to envy to some men, who serve in their same position.

[Razor (DayZ) 0]

I don't see a reason to talk about this anymore after rocket's post.

You can continue this discussion with him in PMs if you wish.

[paecmaker 0]

If the female skin would be "weaker" I dont think anyone would actually play as a female, and if we are going to be completely realistic then we must have different body types for everyone. Lets randomize how good you character are in terms of strength and (blah blah blah blah) that some players can lift massive things and run around with machine guns while others can barely have a gun.

These guys arent your average people, they need to be fit to have survived this long.

[brandt 0]

I don't see a reason to talk about this anymore after rocket's post.

You can continue this discussion with him in PMs if you wish.

Then why do you continue writing in this thread? And Rocket did not give a definite answer' date=' he even mentioned that DayZ is striving for authenticity so there is absolutely room for further discussion.

[hr']

If the female skin would be "weaker" I dont think anyone would actually play as a female' date=' and if we are going to be completely realistic then we must have different body types for everyone. Lets randomize how good you character are in terms of strength and (blah blah blah blah) that some players can lift massive things and run around with machine guns while others can barely have a gun.

These guys arent your average people, they need to be fit to have survived this long.

[/quote']

DayZ is a lot about making decisions, your actions very often have consequences, do I favor food over guns and vice versa, and so on.

Therefore I would like to see some consequences when you choose to play as a female character.

But again, if all the survivors are supposed to be some ex-soldiers with high training standards then we can assume that we are playing with characters that are not average men/women.

Another nice outcome of nerfing female characters would be that less people would play as them with the sole reason of having a female body to look at from behind.

[Guest]

I like to see femele characters in DayZ

Well good for you that you like boys playing as girls in DayZ...

Please avoid offtopic posts like this one. Discuss and come with arguments regarding the topic or don't write at all.

There is no need to respond as you did' date=' if one went off topic, it does not to get dirty your nice…thread :P

I accidentally deleted the text that followed my intervent, i wanted to say that:

"I like to see femele characters in DayZ

do not see why should be weakened? for example who play with a femel skin, in the video, play as all the other, but is a guy, he choose a different skin, why should give him handicap???"

Like you said, someone even if man could play with a female skin

without necessarily having to be gay, but just because he likes the look

so…no to nerf who chois a skin, bandit, femele, goat etc :D

During my time in the Polish Army Officer training I saw the complete opposite, females where weaker and of course they had much lower goals to pass on tests than the male cadets. Females also had first priority to get in to courses and they always had spots reserved for them even though their results where much worse.

Maybe because there is no logic behind it? In many countries the armed forces are forced to take in women because the politicians believe that it's popular with "gender equality", many times the women don't meet current standards so the solution is to lower them, but only for women...

And about Man vs Femele…

I can assure you that there are women, Policewomen in my country

that have nothing to envy to some men, who serve in their same position.

FEMALE

[millie 0]

As a female player of this game, i wouldnt want to play with a male character, nor would i want my female character to be limited on what it could do compared to most other players (who are male)

[SumoS 168]

So the men should have a sex drive bar as well? If that starts flashing you will gradually start losing health until you hide in a bush and whip one off?

That would be the comparison and down sides to what you are suggesting.

I don't see how playing a female character should be a hard mode. Just make it a purely aesthetic choice as it was intended to be.

[RuneNL 0]

*facepalm* @ topic

If this nonsence would go through,

/ give women models infinite lives because they can give birth /sarcasm

[tanker 2]

I trained as both an NZ Army and RNZAF (Air Force) Officer. As part of that training, I did my NZ Army Officer training, RNZAF Officer Training, and I also did the Singaporean Armed Forces Infantry Officer training on exchange.

During that time, I saw the female cadets treated exactly the same as the male cadets and carrying just as much. The NZ Army (and the Israeli Military I might add) makes no distinction between Male and Female.

Whatever my thoughts were before training, after training there was no doubt in me that a tough woman is just as tough as a tough man. Overcoming adversity is just as much about your mental resilience as physical.

Anyway, as I've said before, I'm striving for authenticity (the suspension of disbelief) rather than realism. I admit we're not at that point yet, but I think we're well on the way.

The average man could kill the average woman with his bare hands in a minute. The average woman is not as strong or as fast as the average man. Thats an empirical fact. It's good you are not striving for realism.

[tanker 2]

So the men should have a sex drive bar as well? If that starts flashing you will gradually start losing health until you hide in a bush and whip one off?

That would be the comparison and down sides to what you are suggesting.

I don't see how playing a female character should be a hard mode. Just make it a purely aesthetic choice as it was intended to be.

Are you sayinig women have no libido?

Edited July 23, 2012 by Tanker

[thatcommiekid 57]

YOU SIR ARE A SEXIST

U_NA^CC_EP^TA_BL^E!!!

[Bribase 251]

Despite the rather heavy handed rule of thumb that the OP has mistakenly apprehended as actual knowledge, he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Handling a rifle or handgun, dealing with the recoil and holding it steady enough to aim and fire is not a question of shere physical strength. Dealing with recoil is a matter of technique; assuming a proper firing stance, leaning into the stance and locking your arms into the correct position. Don't think for a moment that the OP's conception of what he thinks of as the average man and woman are in any way connected to their ability to hold and fire a rifle. Assuming that the players are survivors with little or no training with firearms renders the difference in ability to use their weapons to zero.

A burly male with no experience can be much worse of a shot than a woman with a little experience or a simple aptitude for it.

[Bribase 251]

The average man could kill the average woman with his bare hands in a minute. The average woman is not as strong or as fast as the average man. Thats an empirical fact. It's good you are not striving for realism.

Beating a person to death ≠ Firing a gun at them

If they employ an unarmed combat mechanic your thread might apply. Not before then.

[chhopsky 25]

I believe that DayZ is striving to be a relatively realistic mod. Since DayZ build 1.6.0 female characters have been added to the game.

With reality in focus I would like to suggest that female characters have less inventory space than male characters to simulate their inferior average strength.

Another suggestion is that the effects of recoil could also be bigger on female characters because of the lower body mass(look at the female model ingame).

Again, this mod is aiming at being relatively realistic. In case of an apocalypse things like gender equality and political correctness go straight out the window. The strong survive and the weak meet their demise or team up with the strong.

Make female characters stand out more in static environments, like in base camps. Give them skills that can be used in a base camp environment. Male characters should also be able to do the same things but not as efficiently as the female characters.

Basically add some consequences/bonuses when choosing to play as a female character!

I've seen a lot of terrible suggestions today but this one is the most irrelevant and definitely the worst. Women may have a technically greater total capacity but up until olympic level, ie pushing the limits of human physiology, those limits don't come into play. We can assume that most women who've survived an apocalypse who are already living in a post-soviet state are pretty tough. I'm all for character development that can benefit or hinder certain play styles but this is offensive, pointless, and serves no gameplay purpose.

You need to take a long hard think about what you've actually suggested, and realise that you are being an asshole.

[Epsilon 349 33]

the sexism is strong with this one

[Veniathan 9]

the sexism is strong with this one

Get out, please. And never return.

You're like a feminist, except worse.

This suggestion is serious, although dumb because of his way to not see it's mostly about technique and not strenght. It is still nowhere near sexism.

Why are you using words you do not know the meaning of at all?

[LeOverlord 150]

Yea...

Give them less invintory space...

Also give them the option to make better cooked meat...

Then add the nag emote...

Which forces other players to cover their ears...

-.-

Really come on now...

[Flying Mathias 18]

Even if the average man is more powerful, physically, than the average woman, it's easily possible for women to become just as powerful with training. Earlier in the thread you said that these are average citizens. That's clearly false. It's survival of the fittest, we can assume that most of these survivors have had military training, are hunters, or are in some other way trained to be adept at running, firing guns, and a plethora of other things.

After all, I doubt that the average person can fire a rifle, or run a kilometre.

[chhopsky 25]

Get out, please. And never return.

You're like a feminist, except worse.

This suggestion is serious, although dumb because of his way to not see it's mostly about technique and not strenght. It is still nowhere near sexism.

Why are you using words you do not know the meaning of at all?

You clearly don't know the meaning of the word 'feminist' so perhaps you should wear pants in your glass house.

Let's go through this line by line:

With reality in focus I would like to suggest that female characters have less inventory space than male characters to simulate their inferior average strength.

Right, but we're clearly not talking about 'average' people. We're talking about obviously skilled, incredibly fit survival/military types. So why is it so important to try to bring physical inferiority into it? Rocket himself talked of no performance gap between men & women in a number of military training environments, so this is bunk.

Another suggestion is that the effects of recoil could also be bigger on female characters because of the lower body mass(look at the female model ingame)

So this is partially ignorance, he doesn't know that recoil compensation is mostly good technique. That's kind of a bold assumption to make either way - women are going to be shitter at guns than men because they're inferior......physically.

Again, this mod is aiming at being relatively realistic. In case of an apocalypse things like gender equality and political correctness go straight out the window. The strong survive and the weak meet their demise or team up with the strong.

"Women are weak and need to team up with men or die because men are stronger."

Make female characters stand out more in static environments, like in base camps. Give them skills that can be used in a base camp environment. Male characters should also be able to do the same things but not as efficiently as the female characters.

"Women should stay in the kitchen, that's where they excel."

Basically add some consequences/bonuses when choosing to play as a female character!

Literally the only bonus mentioned was being better at cooking. If you can't see why this might upset some people, then perhaps you might need a lesson in Privilege and gender role stereotypes.

Edited July 24, 2012 by chhopsky

[Grodenn 53]

Yep these people clearly are average citizens with no training, I could just walk down the street pick up a dmr and shoot someone at 600m no sweat. The characters are far from average people. They can run the length of Chernarus without stopping which is like 15Km and fire a wide variety of weapons accurately and proficiently as well as showing the ability to survive off the land. If this is what you consider average...

Yeah because it is VERY hard to run 15 Km without stopping :rolleyes:. And this idea is just stupid noone would ever play a female character if they where weaker than male ones. I actually wont make a new female character again simply because they cannot wear a ghillie suit (jet).

Edited July 24, 2012 by Grodenn

[tarquinbb 28]

furthermore to the OP, if it's going for realism over gameplay then the fat nerds who make up the majority of the dayz playerbase should require 10 times more food, otherwise their character begins to cry (attracting zombies and players). they also have to stop to catch breath after running for 10 seconds.

they're also too weak to carry two heanded weapons, and can only fire sidearms from the hip.

(joking of course)

Edited July 24, 2012 by tarquinbb