Why I host a non-hive server

[M O N S T E R 599]

OP has my beans - entire thread would too, if I had enough to give out. Good read, thanks boys.

-MONSTER

[disorder 344]

Remember all great games get hacked. See Wow Lol

I will wait until standalone before I say it is a problem.

Also try not to hijack the thread to talk about random crap.

Edited August 14, 2012 by disorder

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

HEY COOL!

It's MY THREAD all over again!

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/58602-why-the-hive-wont-work-until-we-have-some-stability/

~Sol

Edited August 14, 2012 by Sol

[Legacy (DayZ) 1091]

I'd like more input on this thread.

[Mrdk 50]

I'd like more input on this thread.

I would as well.

I will state that the biggest benefit of a private hive right now is security. Simply put, our ability to readily kick and ban users, control the environment and so on. besides that there are other reasons that users would want the option to play on a private hive. Isolated saves are a big thing. People like having the option.

It seems as though support of some kind will be offered for private hives in the standalone version. I do hope this is true, I do also hope that private hives get just as much support as hive servers.

Clearly, more power needs to be delegated to the admins of hive servers again. There needs to be a better way of running things besides taking all power away from server admins.

Hive admins would need to be policed differently in their actions compared to admins of non hives. If anything, I would think the non hive admins would not require policing at all. Any policing would probably be best suited to the hive itself.

Though to be fair, all hive servers do is share a main character database. Everything else is isolated to the server. They should have some form of control over that environment. They ought to have the right to ban users from their servers. If a player gets banned from a single server and makes a complaint, I think admins should only receive some form of punishment if a series of complaints has been made. One user should not be able to get a server shut down because he claims he was "unfairly banned". It needs to take multiple users.

Non hives were born out of the problems with the hive. But they are now established and will be around so long as DayZ is here. They were born out of necessity but will remain because of player demand.

We need to all work together and find a common ground here. When support for non hives is enacted, non hive admins will need full access to all server files so they are able to run their own server environment. Any restriction of access to anything will simply drive them to use server emulators.

A suggestion for DayZ standalone that is already possible with some server emulators: Create an admin spectate mode. You will never have all of the hacking removed from this game, but if Admins can enter a spectate mode and check on players in realtime in the game they will be able to perform their jobs much easier. Spectate mode for admins exist in virtually every online game you can think of. A few bad apples will abuse this, sure. Thats not the point. The point is that the majority of admins will use such a feature to stop hackers. You could try to restrict the spectate mode, maybe prevent the admin from entering playmode for X amount of time - but again any such restriction will simply be bypassed by those earlier mentioned bad apples and just be a waste of your time. I would like a spectate mode in the standalone though. That would be a very useful and rather essential thing.

Edited September 2, 2012 by Mrdk

[boneboys 7988]

Moved.

[disorder 344]

Got shot again on public before I could even get high level gear, still prefer to play private in my very limited time. PVP should be optional and I'm not the only one who thinks that. Who was it that said "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"? Some famous guy I guess..

Edited September 2, 2012 by disorder

[Jeroen128 0]

There won't be better anticheats progs because of the way arma is coded. It just makes it so easy for hackers.

We started a private passworded hive which you can join trough our forum so we are almost completely in control.

No hackers, no server hoppers etc etc.

It is the only way to make it playable again.

[RapturJesus 90]

Private hives are the only way to play. I finally decided to start playing on one the other day.

A lot less lag. No hackers. No glitchiness.

Its amazing. If public admins had a lot more power to ban people I would still play on the public servers. Nearly everyone I see running around on a public server has an ASfifty or some other bullshit. Oh and forget playing on a server with more than 30 people. Youll either get killed by a guy with a wallhack silenced thermal one shot one kill sniper or get spawned into the middle of the ocean.

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

...

"I'm a control freak and i cannot stand to get the rights i take for granted as a game server admin away from me"

Game server admin rights are more or less a tradition of online video gaming, but it's starting to change, because games are becoming more and more a "service" rather than a piece of code treated as "goods".

The strict definition of a server administrator is that he administrate, aka ensure that the system he is in charge of is running smoothly. He is entrusted with full power because his line of work may require them, but his role isn't to take decisions that affect the system, they are essentially the maintenance guy.

You can imagine if the DayZ team could ship the server application in such a way that it is completely tamper proof, they probably would as it would be much less of a hassle.

Personally i fail to understand why dayz is now tolerating private hive servers, it's their mod, they decide of everything about it, doesn't matter what you or I decide.

If it was me, those hive servers would receive good old "cease and desist" letters from their server provider, most game server providers will pull the plug for less than that.

But i can also understand that the dayZ team has better things to do at the moment, hence the presence of this forum section, rather than police something annoying and devote manpower to it, just ensure it's not polluting the main forum section.

[servebotfrank 14]

"I'm a control freak and i cannot stand to get the rights i take for granted as a game server admin away from me"

Game server admin rights are more or less a tradition of online video gaming, but it's starting to change, because games are becoming more and more a "service" rather than a piece of code treated as "goods".

The strict definition of a server administrator is that he administrate, aka ensure that the system he is in charge of is running smoothly. He is entrusted with full power because his line of work may require them, but his role isn't to take decisions that affect the system, they are essentially the maintenance guy.

You can imagine if the DayZ team could ship the server application in such a way that it is completely tamper proof, they probably would as it would be much less of a hassle.

Personally i fail to understand why dayz is now tolerating private hive servers, it's their mod, they decide of everything about it, doesn't matter what you or I decide.

If it was me, those hive servers would receive good old "cease and desist" letters from their server provider, most game server providers will pull the plug for less than that.

But i can also understand that the dayZ team has better things to do at the moment, hence the presence of this forum section, rather than police something annoying and devote manpower to it, just ensure it's not polluting the main forum section.

Why is it whenever there is someone making a level headed argument about Private hives you come in and essentially label them as entitled control freaks and dismiss their entire argument? You have done this in ever single argument I have seen you in and never even bother to address the other guy's points. Quit kissing the ass of the devs of this game it's all I ever see you do.

"The strict definition of a server administrator is that he administrate, aka ensure that the system he is in charge of is running smoothly. He is entrusted with full power because his line of work may require them, but his role isn't to take decisions that affect the system, they are essentially the maintenance guy"

This is not a good argument. Here's some personal experience for you from me.

A some-what well known Youtube channel decided to make a Minecraft server after many fans asked for them to. They did, it was great for a while because the fans just discovered Minecraft and were able to meet because of similar interests. Then hacking became rampant. You could build a 4x4 room without a hacker destroying it. We whitelisted the server, hacking decreased exponentially and our moderators could ban any that managed to get whitelisted still. If we followed your advice the server would've been shut down a long time ago.

Your logic is like if the Government would be to pass a law saying Shop owners can't kick asshole customers out of their store because the shop owners are just people running a store, nothing more. If that happened we would have so few stores because jerks would come in and steal shit because they can't be kicked out or anything. If they are kicked out then the store gets shut down because of one complaint.

Hacking is too rampant and server admins have no control over a server that they paid for. You want to run a server and not do anything to administrate it, fine by us. Just don't try to make other people follow the same rules you set on yourself.

[fabrix7777 14]

I have to say that perhaps your anger is blinding you to the underlying work Rocket has done. You are quiet ignorant if you think he has stolen 80% of the game from zombie sandbox or only created a few weapons. Perhaps you should go for a walk and maybe drink a nice cool glass of milk.

Perhaps you don't know what you are talking about, perhaps you should wipe your mouth clean, cause only shit is coming out of it.

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

Why is it whenever there is someone making a level headed argument about Private hives you come in and essentially label them as entitled control freaks and dismiss their entire argument? You have done this in ever single argument I have seen you in and never even bother to address the other guy's points. Quit kissing the ass of the devs of this game it's all I ever see you do.

"The strict definition of a server administrator is that he administrate, aka ensure that the system he is in charge of is running smoothly. He is entrusted with full power because his line of work may require them, but his role isn't to take decisions that affect the system, they are essentially the maintenance guy"

This is not a good argument. Here's some personal experience for you from me.

A some-what well known Youtube channel decided to make a Minecraft server after many fans asked for them to. They did, it was great for a while because the fans just discovered Minecraft and were able to meet because of similar interests. Then hacking became rampant. You could build a 4x4 room without a hacker destroying it. We whitelisted the server, hacking decreased exponentially and our moderators could ban any that managed to get whitelisted still. If we followed your advice the server would've been shut down a long time ago.

Your logic is like if the Government would be to pass a law saying Shop owners can't kick asshole customers out of their store because the shop owners are just people running a store, nothing more. If that happened we would have so few stores because jerks would come in and steal shit because they can't be kicked out or anything. If they are kicked out then the store gets shut down because of one complaint.

Hacking is too rampant and server admins have no control over a server that they paid for. You want to run a server and not do anything to administrate it, fine by us. Just don't try to make other people follow the same rules you set on yourself.

A system admin in a banking firm doesn't get to change account balance, even if he has the ability to do so.

[fabrix7777 14]

A system admin in a banking firm doesn't get to change account balance, even if he has the ability to do so.

If by mistake they accredit your account the wrong amount they better change their mistake, and they are doing it. So what are you talking about?

[Mrdk 50]

A system admin in a banking firm doesn't get to change account balance, even if he has the ability to do so.

We're not a bank. We're server admins of a server that hosts a video game. We require full control in order to maintain a secure environment. Your arguments are invalid. Go look at virtually any other game and look at admin rights. A few people will always abuse power, that does not mean we should all be punished.

Like the other guy said, I do wonder if you even read my actual post. You failed to respond to any of the points that were really made.

By the way, if the bank messes up your balance, which can and does happen they do have the ability to change it back or modify it and they will if you report a problem.

Edited September 3, 2012 by Mrdk

[wisteria 0]

Why don't you go ahead and read the post?

Welcome to view my blog -- blog.ezparity.com

Edited September 4, 2012 by wisteria

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

We're not a bank. We're server admins of a server that hosts a video game. We require full control in order to maintain a secure environment. Your arguments are invalid. Go look at virtually any other game and look at admin rights. A few people will always abuse power, that does not mean we should all be punished.

Like the other guy said, I do wonder if you even read my actual post. You failed to respond to any of the points that were really made.

By the way, if the bank messes up your balance, which can and does happen they do have the ability to change it back or modify it and they will if you report a problem.

No, YOUR argument is invalid, you claim that because traditionally admin enjoyed full power that it should remain so.

"Maintaining a secure environment" that's the same bullshit argument that is dished out IRL to justify unacceptable security measures.

The hacker problem is BE and the dev team's job. not mine, not yours. This game is a broken in progress project, it isn't a stable polished game that is ready for production but i sincerely doubt even half of the players are busy reporting bugs.

The problem with you guys is that you never stop, you always need more power to deal with this and that, (or so you say) i now see non hive servers running PVE, or having new "rules" to steer the game in a different direction.

This is not your game project, taking it, and claiming it as your own by modifying it or changing the rules is literally a spit in the face of the devs.

"Oh yeah we like your thing, but we are going to take over from now because our vision is better than yours."

Admin is a misnomers, the only dayZ admins are part of the dev team, "server host" is probably a better term.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Lady Kyrah

[mrsherenai 64]

No, YOUR argument is invalid, you claim that because traditionally admin enjoyed full power that it should remain so.

"Maintaining a secure environment" that's the same bullshit argument that is dished out IRL to justify unacceptable security measures.

The hacker problem is BE and the dev team's job. not mine, not yours. This game is a broken in progress project, it isn't a stable polished game that is ready for production but i sincerely doubt even half of the players are busy reporting bugs.

The problem with you guys is that you never stop, you always need more power to deal with this and that, (or so you say) i now see non hive servers running PVE, or having new "rules" to steer the game in a different direction.

This is not your game project, taking it, and claiming it as your own by modifying it or changing the rules is literally a spit in the face of the devs.

"Oh yeah we like your thing, but we are going to take over from now because our vision is better than yours."

Admin is a misnomers, the only dayZ admins are part of the dev team, "server host" is probably a better term.

Right its not our game project at all. Its a mod for a game, nothing more nothing less, this is not a standalone game that got ripped apart and rewirtten, its one of 1000 mods. I understand that Dean wants to keep hand on this, of all with standalone coming in the future as it is his baby, but in fact BIS is not abled to find suitable solutions for the hacking problem and on the other side the DayZ staff is not abled to fix his bugs who can be mad about server owners that payed to host his project go and find their own solutions for the existing problems. The last "Hotfix" was released 1 Month ago, leaving bigger holes behind that make the game unplayable, what is the point of having a server with like 15 ppl on it? The player count is decreasing because official DayZ server are not fun at all. You have the fucking artifacts, tents and vehicles not saving and rampant hackers. All of these problems can be hotfixed when you run your local database. You can make a whitelist, edit your server.pbo to advabnced logging and hacking protection and even fix the fucking save bugs as long as they are not client side. Some server owners even managed to fix the artifacts without editing dayz itself. But all of this stuff is not possible when you want to stick to the holy ruleset of an official DayZ server. There is just no advantage of the Hive as the local database support multiple servers too. You can create your own server network with a small amount of servers, whitelist, modified files to fix the major problem and test this game better than it can be tested on any official server.

Edited September 4, 2012 by MrSherenai

[Mrdk 50]

If anyone is curious, we've applied a server side artifact fix over at Atomic servers. It removes over 90% of artifacts before you even see them. Also working inventories.@Lady Kyrah, you have no idea what your talking about. Go run a few servers for a few different games and take a look at your level of administrative control. This type of control is required in such an environment. We need the ability to control our own servers and if you want to come play with us, your more than welcome to it. Taking the powers of all admins away because of a few bad apples is not fair to the majority of server admins nor is it fair to you guys the community as a whole. It is a blatantly unfair system. You cannot justify taking administrative power away because of a few bad admins. Those bad admins ought to be blacklisted or punished. Most of us are decent people just trying to provide a secure and fun environment for those to play the game in. It is not about "hunger for power" at all as you try to make it out to be. But I can see there is no getting through to you. Good day.

Edited September 6, 2012 by Mrdk

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

If anyone is curious, we've applied a server side artifact fix over at Atomic servers. It removes over 90% of artifacts before you even see them. Also working inventories.@Lady Kyrah, you have no idea what your talking about. Go run a few servers for a few different games and take a look at your level of administrative control. This type of control is required in such an environment. We need the ability to control our own servers and if you want to come play with us, your more than welcome to it. Taking the powers of all admins away because of a few bad apples is not fair to the majority of server admins nor is it fair to you guys the community as a whole. It is a blatantly unfair system. You cannot justify taking administrative power away because of a few bad admins. Those bad admins ought to be blacklisted or punished. Most of us are decent people just trying to provide a secure and fun environment for those to play the game in. It is not about "hunger for power" at all as you try to make it out to be. But I can see there is no getting through to you. Good day.

Push back those fixes to the "real" dayZ team then, that's the least you can do. I know about the level of administrative control generally encountered in games. Let me give you a counter example: BF3, you will never ever get access to the server files from any of the official providers. As much as i dislike this idea, it is the only way DayZ can offer a level playing field.

I just have to glance in thos forum section to see a lot of servers do more than just policing, they are turning dayZ into what THEY think it should be.

As for not getting through me, i can say the same for you, there is no way i can make you see reason, we each have an opinion that we believe to be right and true.

@MrSherenai A mod creator deserve the same rights as a standalone game developper, they are not second class programmers. If you where to create your own mod, even if it's a free mod, you get to write the license terms everyone has to accept to use it.

To me, the problem is that this is the internet and that everyone think that as long as you cannot send a lawyer to their door, they get to have their cake and eat it too.

Edited September 6, 2012 by Lady Kyrah

[Mrdk 50]

Push back those fixes to the "real" dayZ team then, that's the least you can do. I know about the level of administrative control generally encountered in games. Let me give you a counter example: BF3, you will never ever get access to the server files from any of the official providers. As much as i dislike this idea, it is the only way DayZ can offer a level playing field.

I just have to glance in thos forum section to see a lot of servers do more than just policing, they are turning dayZ into what THEY think it should be.

As for not getting through me, i can say the same for you, there is no way i can make you see reason, we each have an opinion that we believe to be right and true.

@MrSherenai A mod creator deserve the same rights as a standalone game developper, they are not second class programmers. If you where to create your own mod, even if it's a free mod, you get to write the license terms everyone has to accept to use it.

To me, the problem is that this is the internet and that everyone think that as long as you cannot send a lawyer to their door, they get to have their cake and eat it too.

They already know how to fix it and have the fix. See notes on new dayz version. They've known how to fix it for over a month now, they just didn't release it until enough people complained.

I didn't want to complain, so I just applied the fix server-side.

The fix in the new version is client and server side. Seems they only fixed it for dead bodies though. They are aware that it can happen (client side only) with barbed wire. Don't know why they aren't fixing that as well...

[Zoltan (DayZ) 1]

Hello everybody,

Thankyou MRDK to have started that thread, and the others that made productive comments.

I fell here because I have been trying that mod for around one month now, and i'd like to comment about it, and I hope bring some sense about that public/private argument.

First I must say the mod is great even while it's in alpha state, it's still full of bugs and get an horrible interface but the ammount of freedom is a fresh breath of air.

Unfortunately it started to get wrong lately; I was planning to describe the exact situations but i'm sure everybody have experienced similar situations with hacks/cheats users, so no need to fill that thread with this.

While public hive servers are stormed by abusers, private servers are surely a way to get a chance to find peace while waiting for a solution.

I'm sure that Bohemia or the mod developpers take seriously the hurt that are done to the community that has grown so fast already

So what else would benefit the game from an administration of private hives beside obvious closer watch at fair play?

Could be a capacity to make variations by bringing unique contents to the players, giving them a more enjoayble experiences, a bit like a rpg master could do.

In the future the independent game may give the administrator to have more control on his own story developpement by changing the "rules" exemples ; should the Z behave more like roaming hoards or stays like now around settelments ?

Should that place or that place have non player character not infected and defending ?

So many ideas have and can come out of a game that give right of edition and adaptation of the play rules

It's a start, if that future game is an engine for imagination and keep that kind of freedom, just don't get stuck on with sterile arguments please

One thing that public hive benefit (or should) is a common set of rules that comfort players that seek equity while going in confrontations, I suppose PvP fans would feel at ease in that situation, they could always battle other groups without too much surprises in the surounding world.

I hope it's not just repporting bugs to the dev that is expected, we may contribute to influence the game decision makers in bringing some wanted features in game, hybrid hives is one.

Have a nice day.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Zoltan

[Mrdk 50]

Very nice post Zoltan, you make a lot of good points.

Private and public servers ought to both be fully supported. I do hope there is support for us there when standalone comes as it has been said there will be.

Admins of public servers clearly need more power. If an admin of a public server abuses his power, global ban his GUID with battleye and blacklist his server. Problem solved. Don't punish all the admins for what a few bad apples will do (I refer again to my comment regarding police in my first post).

Edited September 20, 2012 by Mrdk

[Herr Robert 28]

"I'm a control freak and i cannot stand to get the rights i take for granted as a game server admin away from me"

Game server admin rights are more or less a tradition of online video gaming, but it's starting to change, because games are becoming more and more a "service" rather than a piece of code treated as "goods".

The strict definition of a server administrator is that he administrate, aka ensure that the system he is in charge of is running smoothly. He is entrusted with full power because his line of work may require them, but his role isn't to take decisions that affect the system, they are essentially the maintenance guy.

You can imagine if the DayZ team could ship the server application in such a way that it is completely tamper proof, they probably would as it would be much less of a hassle.

Personally i fail to understand why dayz is now tolerating private hive servers, it's their mod, they decide of everything about it, doesn't matter what you or I decide.

If it was me, those hive servers would receive good old "cease and desist" letters from their server provider, most game server providers will pull the plug for less than that.

But i can also understand that the dayZ team has better things to do at the moment, hence the presence of this forum section, rather than police something annoying and devote manpower to it, just ensure it's not polluting the main forum section.

Control freaks or not, admins of private hive servers actually tend to be responsible with their power and even friendly, unlike the admins on the public hive that only seem to be hosting their servers to use them as gearing up grounds and kicking/banning anyone that gets in their way. The private hive admins actually have a good incentive to administrate their servers well too, because they won't have any use of their servers if there's no one playing on them.

[Waymooter 3]

I agree that private hives and servers should not only be supported but embraced by the dayz staff. It enables people to enjoy the game in a more stable environment and takes some of the pressure off an already struggling public hive system. I would think that if the dayz team had any scence when it comes to the standalone release that they would allow private hive and also password protected private servers to cater to the players that would prefer to play with a small group of friends. I don't see how that hurts anyone. They could even rent out private server slots and take the money from people looking to play privately with only friends and put that money to funding a better more efficient public hive system. That way everyone wins and does their part to support the dayz community as a whole. To limit the way people can enjoy the game is not only asinine but will also ultimately contribute to the decline of the game.