Full Character Progression - Compilation Thread

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

This thread will try to compile all sorts of character progression ideas that could fit DayZ, character progression is largely an early/mid-game deal which leads towards end-game. Some of the progression topics will be just mentioned and provided with a link to an already excisting thread that deals with the topic specifically.

Not everybody seems to like progression, but lets face it, progression is already in the game in relation to the excisting gear you find, all sorts of counters (days alive, miles walked, zeds killed, players killed already show the progression you make). I personally think progression is one of THE things missing from the game, and could help to keep that innitial tension the player experiences in the game, even for longer survivors, and provide a higher penalty for death for those longer living people, as they will be reset upon death...

The following topics COULD enhance the progression a character makes all areas so loot progression is not excluded from this compilation:

Clothing:

Clothing is an area where a character could progress in. Each character could spawn in truely civilian clothing and find various clothing items through their lifetime. Besides looks clothes could also provide progress in other areas related to clothingstats. Check out the discussion about 'Full Clothing' here: http://dayzmod.com/f...ad-compilation/

Progression would come from finding garments in the game, if the trade-offs/diversity are good each player could look different but also dress to their needs:

- Each garment (headgear, bodywear, pants, shoes) could come with it's own space to store things, or could add volume/slots to the general inventory.

- Each garment could have it's own insulating properties/stats, from net-stockings to ski-suit.

- Each garment could have it's own 'water tightness' value

- Each garment may have it's own sound signature (most easily exampled by rain clothings)

- Each garment could provide the player with some sort of 'armor value', from protecting against cuts/bruses/stabs/bullits

*!* TL&DR Clothing would have trade'offs between space and insulation, water tightness, sound signature, and 'bullit proofness'

Gear:

Gear in my views would be bags/tools, basically anything that is neither clothing, nor weapon, nor consumable. Players could obviously progress in the gear they find. I am a firm advocate of spawning us with-out a backpack so we can find them, and with it make the Czech Pouch usefull. And reducing the amount of toolbelt slots, so people have to choose what they take with them.

- Backpacks should spawn from commen to ultra-rare in relation to their size, Backpacks could come in broken states as well. Check this thread for a full list of possible backpacks: http://dayzmod.com/f...nventory-space/

- Special tool-belt-pouches could spawn that connect to the toolbelt and give some additional space: http://dayzmod.com/f...sions-teamwork/ reducing gear and adding in these pouches could also facilitate specialisation and with it teamplay (or a good reason to shoot somebody)

- Tools, the thread linked for tool-belt-pouches also gives a mixed in overview of all the various tools that are either in the game or could be added. I am contemplating on whether i should make a tool-compilation thread instead.

Weapons:

Each character obviously progresses in the weapons they find and carry with them. I will not list all sorts of weapons here, but i will simply refer to this thread: http://dayzmod.com/f...k-18-20-21-etc/ which has pretty much any weapon you can think off.

Another weapon related area of progress are the additions that can be added to various weapons, flashguards, scopes, etc. Apparently ArmA3 supports these as single entities and combining them with the suitable weapon. So it's likely we will see these appear in DayZ.

Weapon handeling ?

This is a controversial topic in relation to character progression, I personally think that learning how to shoot should be integrated in the actual game. I personally had to get used to the way guns shoot in Arma, as opposed to other shooter games i play. So there is no real sense in having some sort of penalty on accuracy as one starts out, i mean, the gun is as accurate as it is, it's upto the player to learn how to aim!

There is just one area where some sort of progression, in relation to weapon handling, may make sense:

- Reloading speed could increase as players reload a specific weapon more often.

The progression would be small, but fumbling with bullits is likely the thing a gun owner progresses most in, besides learning how to aim. And reload speeds for a type of weapon you are used to are likely way shorter than a gun you are not used to, simply because you develope your own 'routine' in reloading.

Strength:

A player could start with a base strength of say 10kg, and depending on their activities progress in strength through-out the game. The strength of a player would influence the amount of weight they can carry without suffering a penalty to their maximum speed (walking, sprinting or jogging). Strength would not limit the things you can pick up, just whether you can actually move with them (meaning you can pick up a rotor assembly to put it in a car, but you would not be able to drag it around in your backpack).

- A player could progress in strength from 10kg to 30kg

- Progress could be related to 'time alive'

- Progress could be related to 'distance traveled with more than Xkg'

- Progress could be related to 'heavy lifting', counting lifting items over Xkg.

*numbers arbitrairy; more info on strength: http://dayzmod.com/f...eight-on-items/

Stamina:

Stamina would be your ability to sprint short distances, a player would start out with an average sprinting ability of say 100m in 20sec (5m/s), which should be enough to outrun infected over 100m. Obviously the maximum speed or distance would be effected by the amount of weight that is carried, depending on the character's strength (see above). As the player progresses in the game (s)he could develope more stamina:

- The distance that can be sprinted could increase from 100 to 150 (or even 200) meter

- The maximum speed they run at could increase from 5m/s to about 8m/s.

- Progress could be related to time alive

- Progress could be related to distance sprinted.

- Progress could be related to distance sprinted with more than Xkg

- Progress could be related to distance Jogged.

More details about sprinting and fatique, can be found in this thread: http://dayzmod.com/f...-full-physical/

Endurance:

Endurance would be your ability to jog long distances, a player would start out with being able to jog for 7km in one go at a speed of say 3m/s, which would be slower than the running speed of infected. Obviously the maximum speed or distance would be effected by the amount of weight that is carried, depending on the character's (see above). As the player progresses in the game (s)he could develope more endurance:

- The distance that can be jogged could increase from 7 to 20km (or more)

- The maximum speed the character runs at could increase from 3m/s to about 6m/s.

- Progress could be related to time alive

- Progress could be related to distance jogged.

- Progress could be related to distance jogged with more than Xkg

- Progress could be related to distance sprinted.

More details about Endurance and Exhaustion can be found in this thread: http://dayzmod.com/f...-full-physical/

Battle hardness:

Battle hardness could be an indicater of how 'tough/coldblooded' your character is, it would relate to how easily (s)he is shocked, and how easily they would experience pain, or the amount of pain experienced, or for how long the time lasts (aka. needs to be repressed). In a sense the usefullness of this as a progression area is related to how pain works in DayZ (aka. if it is time related and has severities). A player would obviously start at some arbitrairy 'wussy' level of battle hardness:

- The things that cause pain could be related to battle hardness, or the chance on pain could be related to this indicator, and be reduced as the player get more battle hardened

- The amount of pain, or the chance on the amount of pain could be reduced.

- The time the pain lasts could be reduced, which would effect the amount of painkillers/methadon/alcohol needs to be consumed over time to deal with the pain.

- The chance on being shocked could reduce.

Progress could be related to:

- The amount of times shocked, if there are multiple ways to get shocked than each could have it's own counter.

- The amount of times a character is hit

- The amount of HP lost during the playtime

- The amount of times bleeding

- The amount of times bones are broken

- The amount of times pain is experienced due to pain causing things (burning f/e)

- The amount of times Hit by a bullit

- etc, you get the picture...

More about pain can be found in this thread: http://dayzmod.com/f...ical-first-aid/

Bit tired of typing more will come on these topics:

General Toughness

relates to progression in 'tiredness', see http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/44341-full-physical/ for this topic.

Body Mass Index

A bit far fetched perhaps, but this is a compilation thread, and i seen it suggested before.

Could work if food & activities are expressed in callories, and 'hunger' would also be time related. Any callories not burned, when 'hungry' due to time, would convert into 'fat' or a higher BMI. Your BMI then determains somewhat how long you can do without food in the dark orange/red icon (flashing would still indicate danger!), if you excert yourself after you burned up all the calories of your last meal, you will start to use your bodyfat and you BMI would reduce. A low BMI would obviously mean that the time you can 'spend' in dark orange/red food icon would reduce.

Holding Breath

Unsure if holding one's breath is part of the sniping in DayZ, and whether swimming underwater is possible. Obviously a character could improve the time they can hold their breath.

Skillsets:

See next post below \/

Edited August 10, 2012 by L0G!N

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

reserved space

This post will eventually hold the content of the OP from this thread: http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/32582-learning-by-doing-the-alternative-to-classes-professions/ Though it could do with a lot more feedback b4 i include it, so head over there and read the OP and give your opinion(s). If you think you already read it, then be adviced that i updated the OP on 9th aug. '12 with a lot more details!

Edited August 9, 2012 by L0G!N

[nihilisst 43]

My concept for a basic Skill/stat system: http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/65224-skillstat-system-reduced-and-adapted-to-fit-dayz/

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

Tnx Nihilisst, you will find various things you mentioned to return here :) ... I linked my learning-by-doing thread in that conversation as well, as i thought i was clearly related, but i noticed that in the learning by doing thread i could not include other kinds of progression a character could 'undergo' during their lifetime, some of which are clearly related to the 'full physical' thread. If you are interested, the please read it: http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/44341-full-physical/ various aspect in that thread will return here, in a more 'progress related' fashion. :)

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

Ok done typing for now, pffieww that's quite a list, hope people have some feedback :) ... also wonder if i should use a spoiler (to hide the text beneath each topic) to not scare off people that fear 'wallz of text' ?

[redfield-77 315]

That is a chunk to read but it sounds good. I saw a screen shot from ARMA 3's inventory system and it looked way better than the current one. I think these things could find a home in Dayz if its done right.

[nihilisst 43]

I love you.

No game has ever come closer to being the "perfect" game for me, than DayZ.

The only things I missed are exactly these explained in your OP.

But you don't mention Custom Starting Skill Sets. What is your opinion on that?

I think it would add another Level of authenticity.

Like I already explained in my original thread, not everyone is the same in Real Life either.

If the Zombie Apocalypse would happen right now, let's compare two Cliché Characters:

The douchy, rather dumb Fitness-obsessed Football-Player.

and the nerdy, rather weak, technics-obsessed informatics student.

The first could easily outrun Zeds or kill them with his bare hands.

But he couldn't fix anything.

He could already sprint for 150m from the beginning, but has an 80% chance to fail fixing a broken engine.

The second one could construct an alarm system to be sure no Zed can near him undetected.

Or he could construct a makeshift telescope-Taser to Fry Zed Brains from a (safe) distance.

But he could never free himself if a Zed grabs him.

He can only sprint for 50m, but has a 80% success chance when fixing/crafting things.

All factors would be either compiled to different classes, or one can create custom skill sets;

Every Skill has starting values from very low to very high (or -2 to +2)

Players can then change their Skills according to their preferences or their real life abilities, but have to stay at 0 in total, so for every high, there has to be one low, for every very high one very low (or two low), etc.

(Of course starting levels can still be improved, so noone can star with a maxed value, I suggest Skill levels from 0 to 100 %. very low = 20%, low =35 %, medium=50% high=65%, very high=80%)

"medium" would be the average, standard value, like you suggested (100m sprint at 5m/s, 10kg carry weight, ... )

What I'm not sure about, but could motivate players to use this feature, is if the Maximum Value should change according to your starting value. So if you start at 65%, you can improve until 115%, at 20% only to 70% etc. (Max Improvement 50%)

This would also sustain squad play. Like Classes/Professions, but more personal and adapted to each one.

[nihilisst 43]

I'v been thinking, what about making a difference between basic and advanced abilities/skills ?

This could be implemented with or without the character progression concept.

basic abilities are things that every normal person is (should be) able to do. like taking/giving painkillers, light a fire, sharpen blades ...

advanced are those that need special training or education. Like giving Blood transfusions, applying splints, gutting animals, ...

At Character Creation, you choose a few advanced skills, "tag skills", that you are able to do from the beginning.

All other advanced Skills can be learned from other Players. (Rocket mentioned that he would like to see this in the game)

If you want to learn how to gut an animal, you need 3 things:

- a (dead) animal

- another player that can gut animals

- a hunting knife/the tools needed to gut an animal

Then the other player can choose the option "teach skill" or you can "learn skill" (gotta see how the standalone interface works)

If you haven't learned the skill yet, you can still try, but have a 95-99% chance of failure.

Plus, if it's considered together with the character progression system, the skill will not improve until it's learned, no matter how often you try and maybe even succeed.

Considering my suggestion of different starting skill values, These "tag skills" are those that you start with at high/very high.

But they aren't bound to skill level; you can learn to give transfusions at a low skill level, but you won't be good at it, unless you exercise and get better.

[terrvik 2409]

I thought about a system where a character looked different depending on how much time it has been played. Since all characters will be even more connected to a database tracking different stuff this should not be too hard.

What I mean is that if you have been playing DayZ for a long time your character will spawn with dirtier clothes, beards and other things to make your character look experienced. A new player will start with clean clothes. This would remain even between deaths, since you as a player still keep your knowledge of the game. So if I see two guys running along looking very clean I would know that they are probably new, scared and confused and won't know very much about the world. When I apporach with my respectable beard and dirty clothes they know I have experience from playing the game longer and it would (maybe) be more natural for me to help new guys out or reason that they are no threat to me (or maybe they are because they are scared and will attack everything :) ). Should not be that easy to abuse since it would sync with the database.

Thoughts?

[nihilisst 43]

I think the fact that you start as a completely new Character is a huge and important feature of the game.

I don't like the idea of taking progress (of whatever kind) from one character to another.

Even now, Humanity is persistent through all your Characters, I don't think that fits DayZ very well.

The Humanity feature is cool, but I think getting a new skin *pop* like this; just for killing other players takes away a lot of the authenticity that Rocket praises so much.

The feature with dirty clothes, Beard, Scars, etc... Is planned I think, but always bound to the Character and not to the Player Profile. (which is the better variant for me)

For me, The Core of the game, the only thing that should not change at all is that you start with almost nothing, and when you die, you lose everything.

[wraylir 1]

I agree with stamina bar that should be added to game when you run for 3 kilometers max and then you walk slow to regenerate.

They already make something similar in game Age of Conan

Also skills and perks should be added to game like after 20 days alive you gain perk like in game Fallout and you gain backpack increase or more stamina.

Trust me there shouldnt be permanent skills that adds to ur profile.

You can have skills only if you stay alive in game.

And please add some female zombies in rags.

This game is really close to become real good or total failure.

[wolfstriked 143]

Maybe have the blurs at screen edge start off blank or turned off.Then as you progress they will slowly start to get bigger and bigger until they look exactly as they are now.As I only eat meat in game they help me to stay alive.Many times I have been blinking red and starving to death to suddenly spot a blur at edge of my screen and hence see the tiny rabbit running parallel to me.Of course fix the seeing blurs thru buildings etc.

[nihilisst 43]

I agree with stamina bar that should be added to game when you run for 3 kilometers max and then you walk slow to regenerate.

They already make something similar in game Age of Conan

Also skills and perks should be added to game like after 20 days alive you gain perk like in game Fallout and you gain backpack increase or more stamina.

Trust me there shouldnt be permanent skills that adds to ur profile.

You can have skills only if you stay alive in game.

And please add some female zombies in rags.

This game is really close to become real good or total failure.

I don't really agree with you.

Stamina - definitely, Stamina Bar - No. I don't want to see my stamina decrease as an emptying bar, I want to feel it.

Skills - yes. Perks "after 20 days of surviving" - no. Everything you gain should be gained by learning it or finding it. Not *pop* a new ability appears.

permanent Skills, bound to Profile - No. here I agree.

Only thing is, your "starting skill set" should be saved with your profile, so if you die, you don't have to go through the complete progress of character creation again.

Maybe have the blurs at screen edge start off blank or turned off.Then as you progress they will slowly start to get bigger and bigger until they look exactly as they are now.As I only eat meat in game they help me to stay alive.Many times I have been blinking red and starving to death to suddenly spot a blur at edge of my screen and hence see the tiny rabbit running parallel to me.Of course fix the seeing blurs thru buildings etc.

these dots are a feature in arma, we'll see what rocket makes out of it for the standalone. They even make the game more realistic in a way. As you have a much smaller Field of view than in reality, these dots imitate your ability to make out movements in the corner of your eyes.

And if you see the dots through buildings and hills, not only on the edge of the screen, it's because you play on recruit difficulty servers....

[DemonGroover 8836]

I think being able to handle and aim a weapon properly should be experience based the more you use the better you get.

[wolfstriked 143]

Yah for the dots being tied to difficulty.So now we just need Rocket to add some earned skills that you lose upon death.

For weapons I think a change to dispersion for each weapon would work rather well.As I modded my own Stalker game yrs back I modded dispersion slightly so that in close quarters the weapons were all highly accurate<<this being the total FAIL of Stalker series IMO.When I first started the Stalker game and found myself shooting at a bandit ten feet away and not one bullet hit I knew it was modding time. ;) I am more talking about just seeing bullets hitting around a target that is at range and a tightening of the dispersion as skill level is achieved.Again slight so that at say 600m and aiming for the head of a bandit and my bullets are hitting his chest or around the head etc.

Stamina....for me I would rather see the animation of running be changed to jogging instead and then this speed allowed for long times=as is right now with the unlimited running.Would make it feel more real.This could be enhanced with coke drinks giving a slight speed boost,just enough to where you feel it but overtime you will notice it on the time to arrival.Sprinting should or rather could be done to have stamina where after a certain time,maybe one minute,you need to walk.And this could be tied in with your ability to lose zeds so that as you gain in skill your time to sprint increases to its final amount of 2 minutes.Plenty of time to lose the infected aggro you incur.I feel Dayz really needs this as the running thru towns knowing not a single infected will touch you is terrible for immersion.I read that Rocket say that eventually the zeds running in buildings will be eliminated and that is just excellent news!!

Edited August 25, 2012 by wolfstriked

[nihilisst 43]

I think being able to handle and aim a weapon properly should be experience based the more you use the better you get.

This will never be implemented. It just doesn't fit with a authentic experience.

The only thing that could be done, is to make the weapons ballistics and recoil as realistic as possible, maybe also taking their weight into account.

Like that, you have to learn how to use them through playing. Already now, you have very realistic weapon handling. You need to take the distance (bullet drop) and movement of enemies into account.

And Arma with the ACE mod even adds Wind and other factors you have to deal with.

@wolfstriked:

Have you read this threads OP, paragraph about "Endurance" ?

[wolfstriked 143]

@wolfstriked:

Have you read this threads OP, paragraph about "Endurance" ?

No,being honest here I just thought it was the usual stamina request.I agree with the OP's new request!!