Thermal, Night Vision and Flashlights.

[SimplySublime 2]

for you it is easier to read dark green on black than white on black o.O? Where do you come from? lol

He comes from the days of DOS, probably well beyond your time young padawon.

[kebman 213]

Great post about thermal.

Your post about thermal vision has made me re-consider my view upon it. I'm now for thermal.

Thank you!

I'm still against NVG as it is implemented now. I'm only for NVG in bino-mode.

[notdahangoverguy 19]

Very well written, logical and reasonable post. I 100% agree with this. There is nothing here I can complain about and nothing to correct as you have said it all. Take away the night vision and especially the thermal AWS scope on the L85A2. Natural, and artificial lighting is the direction this should go in terms of night-time combat and survival. Even being able to see in the dark should have consequences whether it's a flashlight or an M203 Flare as you suggested.

[Psychobob 155]

Very well written, logical and reasonable post. I 100% agree with this. There is nothing here I can complain about and nothing to correct as you have said it all. Take away the night vision and especially the thermal AWS scope on the L85A2. Natural, and artificial lighting is the direction this should go in terms of night-time combat and survival. Even being able to see in the dark should have consequences whether it's a flashlight or an M203 Flare as you suggested.

I agree. There should be some sort of consequence for every action. Nightvision and Thermal have no consequences. You shouldn't be able to see in the dark with no fear of being seen while doing so.

My friends and I have all been playing without using our nightvision and every one of them agrees that it's a much more exciting experience. If nobody had nightvision or thermal it would be even more enjoyable, knowing nobody had such an advantage over us.

They simply need to improve the flashlight system then remove Thermal and Nightvision goggles/scopes. I think it would be a major improvement to the game, especially when playing at night.

[El3utherios 5]

Once the combat started the gunshots would attract players anyway. Nightvision makes all of the flashlights, flares and chemlights almost completely useless and at the same time takes a lot of the fear out of playing at night, once you have it.

On the contrary, anyone who has ever used NVG's in real life knows you can't look at bright light sources with it. If you tried looking at the kind of light output the flashlight or Road Flare produces with a NVG you'd see nothing but a huge blob of light (depending on range ofc). There are different types of NVG's, the one I used had this problem at least. If someone had NVG's and was exposed to that kind of light they'd have no option but to remove the NVG's or turn around and escape. Also realistically, since our survivors are using both eyes in the NVG's their natural night vision hasn't adapted to how dark it really is, so when taking the NVG's off they'd only be able to see the light sources properly at first, everything else would be pitch black for valuable seconds. So the NVG's would be useful for the first few seconds of an ambush, but a burden later on.

[Psychobob 155]

On the contrary, anyone who has ever used NVG's in real life knows you can't look at bright light sources with it. If you tried looking at the kind of light output the flashlight or Road Flare produces with a NVG you'd see nothing but a huge blob of light (depending on range ofc). There are different types of NVG's, the one I used had this problem at least. If someone had NVG's and was exposed to that kind of light they'd have no option but to remove the NVG's or turn around and escape. Also realistically, since our survivors are using both eyes in the NVG's their natural night vision hasn't adapted to how dark it really is, so when taking the NVG's off they'd only be able to see the light sources properly at first, everything else would be pitch black for valuable seconds. So the NVG's would be useful for the first few seconds of an ambush, but a burden later on.

That's how it works in real life but not in the game. The only light in-game that is bright enough to be effective in combating NVGS/Scopes from a distance is the Sun. Some times that doesn't even work, I was wearing mien during the day once and I didn't even realize it. Up close flashlights/flares can cause your NVGs to dim a bit but that doesn't help much when you've already been killed from 50m+. You will be seen/dead WAY before you even have a chance of seeing them, especially true when it comes to snipers.

This is just one of many reasons they need to be removed.

[TheJackal_112 3]

Awesome post by the way - I would agree with others who have posted saying that allowing night vision but having a battery life system is the ideal way forward

[Psychobob 155]

Awesome post by the way - I would agree with others who have posted saying that allowing night vision but having a battery life system is the ideal way forward

I don't agree with this because NVG/Scopes, even if they do require batteries, still defeat the purpose of playing at night. They remove all of the challenge and fear, giving them batteries is a step in the right direction but it's not enough that it would change anything.

The game is supposed to be challenging and scary, NVGs and scopes remove far too much of those aspects.

[Psychobob 155]

He comes from the days of DOS, probably well beyond your time young padawon.

My eyes are just hipsters, seeing in perfect color is too mainstream for them.

[ruffriderz_01@tiscali.co.uk 7]

well TBh they should not be removed from game i yet to find a L85 they should add more shit in we in russia so SAM be a good start

And i play on night time servers sometimes for the thrill with or without NVGs

never get attached to your gear

But to use the L85 in daylight is a bit OP Maybe do what they do with NVGs mess your eyes up as i say not found L85

also a clamp for main guns for option for your flashlight and use millitry one for more stealth option

[Psychobob 155]

well TBh they should not be removed from game i yet to find a L85 they should add more shit in we in russia so SAM be a good start

And i play on night time servers sometimes for the thrill with or without NVGs

never get attached to your gear

But to use the L85 in daylight is a bit OP Maybe do what they do with NVGs mess your eyes up as i say not found L85

also a clamp for main guns for option for your flashlight and use millitry one for more stealth option

I think the L85 is pretty OP no matter when you use it. Thermal is just way to easy then on top of that it also has Nightvision. The biggest issue I have is how much NVGs and Thermal take away from the theme of the game. They make it WAY too easy to survive, especially at night. Playing without nightvision is a lot more fun, even with the shit flashlight system we have now, but you can't fully enjoy it because you know other people will have nightvision and will kill you before you even know what happened.

The flashlight system just needs to be improved then all thermal and Nightvision needs to be removed, except for that of the Rangefinder. More weapons with flashlights need to be added or we need to be able to get some sort of Headlamp item. We also should be able to use our starting flashlight with every secondary weapon. I also think flashlights should require batteries which could be found pretty much everywhere, as common as food.

[freeman83 51]

Like everybody else has already said, thermals should be removed or be extremley rare, NVG is ok but should have batteries and also be rare and maybe have a weight penalty on movement speed. More emphasis on torch's, flares etc. Duping items is a problem.

I really enjoy stalking players in gullie suits who like to sit in those christmas trees and shoot noobs. It's funny when they run past me at night and i hatchet them in the back. Addressing the issues caused by the thermal and nvg will really put the fear in to these creeps.

Edited August 28, 2012 by freeman83

[Psychobob 155]

Like everybody else has already said, thermals should be removed or be extremley rare, NVG is ok but should have batteries and also be rare and maybe have a weight penalty on movement speed. More emphasis on torch's, flares etc. Duping items is a problem.

I really enjoy stalking players in gullie suits who like to sit in those christmas trees and shoot noobs. It's funny when they run past me at night and i hatchet them in the back. Addressing the issues caused by the thermal and nvg will really put the fear in to these creeps.

They're supposed to be rare but duping makes them common. Making them really rare doesn't fix the fact that they make it far to easy to survive. We just need to have the flashlight system improved and remove them completely.

[Zeppa 562]

Headlamp: Why not..

NVG: extreme rare with battery, so rare that you would pee your pants from joy of finding one.

Thermal: Huge nerf(detect thermalsigns from 0m-> and start fading darker with distance)

EX: bright "yellow" at 0m and gets darker further you go, max range to detect around 500m(extremely dark figure) and uses rare battery. So rare that you would shit and pee your pants from joy and excitement when you find one.

Thermal is brainless gadget atm, you can see a damn rabbit from 1000m away like miniature sun.

And makes enviroment useless, like blending with gilly...

NVG:s are OK, you loose fov when you use them and they dont make object glow out from the surroundings. Rare so they are luxury..

Edited August 30, 2012 by Zeppa

[BobDole (DayZ) 129]

Headlamp: Why not..

NVG: extreme rare with battery, so rare that you would pee your pants from joy of finding one.

Thermal: Huge nerf(detect thermalsigns from 0m-> and start fading darker with distance)

EX: bright "yellow" at 0m and gets darker further you go, max range to detect around 500m(extremely dark figure) and uses rare battery. So rare that you would shit and pee your pants from joy and excitement when you find one.

Thermal is brainless gadget atm, you can see a damn rabbit from 1000m away like miniature sun.

And makes enviroment useless, like blending with gilly...

NVG:s are OK, you loose fov when you use them and they dont make object glow out from the surroundings. Rare so they are luxury..

environment may be useless if l85s were as common as lees but they arent, its a super rare gun and the thermal doesnt see through trees or even a bush its not that op you guys just need to stop crying. and dont come back with that duping bullshit, cry about that instead of the super rare gun itself. just because people dupe rare gear doesnt mean it should be removed...this is a survival game and what would be the point of it if it didnt have items that increase your chance of surviving?

[RobbL (DayZ) 26]

Just make them rarer. I don't want variety taken away from the game

[Psychobob 155]

Headlamp: Why not..

NVG: extreme rare with battery, so rare that you would pee your pants from joy of finding one.

Thermal: Huge nerf(detect thermalsigns from 0m-> and start fading darker with distance)

EX: bright "yellow" at 0m and gets darker further you go, max range to detect around 500m(extremely dark figure) and uses rare battery. So rare that you would shit and pee your pants from joy and excitement when you find one.

Thermal is brainless gadget atm, you can see a damn rabbit from 1000m away like miniature sun.

And makes enviroment useless, like blending with gilly...

NVG:s are OK, you loose fov when you use them and they dont make object glow out from the surroundings. Rare so they are luxury..

environment may be useless if l85s were as common as lees but they arent, its a super rare gun and the thermal doesnt see through trees or even a bush its not that op you guys just need to stop crying. and dont come back with that duping bullshit, cry about that instead of the super rare gun itself. just because people dupe rare gear doesnt mean it should be removed...this is a survival game and what would be the point of it if it didnt have items that increase your chance of surviving?

Just make them rarer. I don't want variety taken away from the game

You guys are only focusing on one issue at a time. There are several reason why they need to be removed.

1. They are constantly duped and no longer rare at all: Duping obviously needs to be fixed. Someone will always find a way to cheat the system. Making them rare always won't fix this.

2. They make it far to easy to survive at night which goes completely against the theme of the game: The game is supposed to be difficult and frightening, give players NVGs takes away much of the fear and difficulty of playing at night. Thermal Removes almost all of the threat from other players, the exception being players who also have thermal. Making them more rare also won't fix this either.

3. They are completely unneeded: The game has plenty of other systems for seeing at night and the flashlight mechanic can be immensely improved to make for a fluent and balanced Nighttime gameplay.

4. The final, which is mostly my opinion, is that Thermal and Nightvision remove a lot of the fun from the game. Thermal takes away all of the challenge and fear of other player during the Day and Night. Nightvision removes the eerie atmosphere from the game as well as giving a major advantage over players using Flashlights, Flares, etc. It also removes any challenge of playing at night by making it nearly as easy to see as during the day. I personally find it much more fun to play without Thermal or Nightvision but I can't do-so because other players will have such an advantage over me, challenging to a level that it is an unwinnable situation. Making them more rare won't fix this effect either.

The Flashlight system could be easily improved to a standard that would allow for new player to not be discouraged about playing at night. It would still be difficult but much more possible than it is now. Allowing players to find some sort of Headlamp or Hands-Free Flashlight is just one solution. Allowing players to use their starting flashlight with ALL secondary weapons is another. Players should be able to walk and Jog without the flashlight flailing all over the screen, sprinting should still cause this effect. Flashlights should also be regulated by requiring that your find fresh batteries to keep them working.

The Rangefinder Binoculars should be the only item that has nightvision. This should be the case because; You can't attack with the rangefinder, You can't travel efficiently at night using the Rangefinder's nightvision and the purpose of the device is to be used for scouting. This being the case, you are not given such an advantage over other players that you are near invincible. At most you would only be able to see other players until you stopped using the rangefinder once you stopped, your only advantage would be knowing for sure that someone else is nearby. The Rangefinder should also use a rare battery that regulates the use of the nightvision as well as the range display. Obviously the battery would hardly drain at all without the nightvision active, when the nightvision was active it would drain at a much more rapid rate.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Psychobob

[ididi9 (DayZ) 53]

Thermal maybe, NVGs are rare enough to make them balanced

[Zeppa 562]

environment may be useless if l85s were as common as lees but they arent, its a super rare gun and the thermal doesnt see through trees or even a bush its not that op you guys just need to stop crying. and dont come back with that duping bullshit, cry about that instead of the super rare gun itself. just because people dupe rare gear doesnt mean it should be removed...this is a survival game and what would be the point of it if it didnt have items that increase your chance of surviving?

We have found 2 l85 from heli within a few days of playing, even if they stay the nerf is needed.

-Sure it doesnt see through bush or trees, but its even if.. lets say I am behind a tree or a bush other side of the valley 800m, you scan it from the other side.. it is still easy to spot when you glow like shit behind the tree or of a side/behind the bush.

I think you are just so keen to your thermal that you dont want it taken away or nerfed, because you loose your superiority and wont "survive". I dont mind if it stays but make it more authentic.

1. Make weather/air temp affect it (rain, day/sun, night etc)

2. Have counter measure for peopple, like the gilly makes your signature smaller etc. That you really have to USE the thing and look, not only pop it up for 1 second and it gives almost the cordinates for you.

There are differend types of these in RL, Only tried one tho in the army, it was quite loud with a fan. Maybe this could be implemented to the game also, few kinds of thermals..

3. civilian grade that are more silent but effective range is not huge. Military grade that has more range but is much louder(cooling fan).

Tarbs that that can be thrown over vehicle to make layer of air between, which makes them less visible and so on.

- There are plenty of other items that help you surviving, it shouldnt be that easy as it is with the thermal atm... if your group has l85 you are almost invincible when you see and snipe ppl from 800m away easy. Surviving should be most about playstyle and thinking, not all about gear you got on.. its only small part that makes it "easyer". Wanna have full bodyarmor that zombies and bullets cannot penetrate, its makes surviving easyer yes?

Edited August 31, 2012 by Zeppa

[Psychobob 155]

Surviving should be most about playstyle and thinking, not all about gear you got on.

This is exactly right and it's what Rocket wants. He wants the players to be responsible for their own survival and not have the game do things for you. Nightvision and Thermal are pretty much the game doing all of the work for you. This is why I say it goes against the theme of the game and it's a major reason why they need to be removed.

[Psychobob 155]

Thermal maybe, NVGs are rare enough to make them balanced

Balance is only one small piece of the bigger picture. There are many reasons why they need to be removed. The biggest concern I have with them is that they don't fit with the theme of the game, they take away the fear and difficulty of playing during the nighttime.

Thermal is just plain easymode, I don't understand why it's even in-game. I really hope the standalone doesn't have any type of thermal or nightvision unless it's only on the rangefinder.

It's easy enough to play at night even with the garbage flashlight system we have now, implementing headlamps or some sort of hands-free flashlight would make NVGs completely unneeded. I believe it would also make the game much more fun and balanced for everyone.