Player Revival

[sgtsnug 26]

I for one have been that guy who heads out with his group and ends up being the one who gets shot, or knocked out by a single zombie and eaten while the others try and find me only for me to die.

Would it be unbalanced to offer a player the chance with a rare set of Defibulators and a blood bag (blood bag needed) to revive that fallen player for the next 5 minutes?

This would make someone with a healing role in the group MUCH more valuable, a protected asset cause if stocks allow it you can bring a recently deceased player back.

Defibs would be as rare as NVG's so it won't be common, and you can't use it on yourself so not a benefit to lone bandits only those who work together a counter to the bandits current ability to shoot n loot.

It would also take some time to do and make a bit of noise so your vulnerable while your performing this revival, much like when you bandage yourself.

[b00ce 5]

Isn't that what the Epinephrine is for? Then again, once you re-spawn there's not much you can do to bring the person back.

[sgtsnug 26]

Isn't that what the Epinephrine is for? Then again' date=' once you re-spawn there's not much you can do to bring the person back.

[/quote']

Epi-pen revive unconcious players who've just been knocked out, what I mean is offer players 5 minutes after death to be revived, if you quit out to the character select screen you surrender this chance.

[b00ce 5]

Makes sense, this would only be useful for organized groups, though. Not to say it isn't a good idea.

[sgtsnug 26]

Makes sense' date=' this would only be useful for organized groups, though. Not to say it isn't a good idea.

[/quote']

Exactly, it encourages people away from going lone gunman and into groups.

[Blitzy 12]

I like the idea. It gives people a reason to group up and co-operate (since you'll need a medic to help you, and medics always need protection/assistance carrying supplies since they've had to sacrifice food/water/ammo for their medical supplies' carrying space), doesn't alter the game enough to make groups invincible (since blood bags are required) and even then, it doesn't prevent your body from being looted while you're down (so it doesn't stop bandits looting their kills).

[benneh1 1]

Definitely a good idea - if this could be implemented, as you say, it would certainly increase the probability of people grouping together again!

[Snipes12 (DayZ) 3]

I would like to see the defibrillator be semi-rare, but also take up a gun slot (preferably the rifle so that not every group of 2 people is willing to have a medic).

Blood bags being needed sounds reasonable, but I think I would want something more along the lines of some sort of charger for the defibrillator. (Batteries Perhaps?) Then after the person is back up, he has to receive the medical treatment (i.e. blood bags, morphine, painkillers).

Being able to revive people is a useful tool, but it shouldn't be considered easy to do.

Edit: Maybe the defibrillator is static, but it needs new pads for each use. Going off of the type that are found in common public areas. Since these type usually have easy to follow instructions, the realism factor would still be preserved that anyone would be able to do this. If you have to though, I suppose you could have a say, 50% chance that you save there life, and a 50% chance you shock them to death. Adjust those odds however.

[sgtsnug 26]

I would like to see the defibrillator be semi-rare' date=' but also take up a gun slot (preferably the rifle so that not every group of 2 people is willing to have a medic).

Blood bags being needed sounds reasonable, but I think I would want something more along the lines of some sort of charger for the defibrillator. (Batteries Perhaps?) Then after the person is back up, he has to receive the medical treatment (i.e. blood bags, morphine, painkillers).

Being able to revive people is a useful tool, but it shouldn't be considered easy to do.

[/quote']

If it's to take up any slot how about it becomes instead like the entrenching tools requires a medic pack to work, meaning the carrier has a limited bag size and no longer capable of carrying alot of loot and made to focus on carrying med supplies.

[redundant 1]

I'm all for this. There is nothing worse than a group member dying to a glitch or a sniper and you can't do anything. He has to start at the coast again and he has the 1-2 hour trek back up north. As people have said it encourages people grouping together. Also will make Blitzy useful :P

[eroglik 4]

Would be good if this was added.

Basically an option to wait to be revived or not (with a max timer) perhaps the timer could decrease if zombies are eating the player, thereby making priority to kill zombies and clear the area so his team can revive.

but also an option to chose to respawn for those who are on their own.

[Hesher (DayZ) 2]

Maybe need to find defibrilator and some battaries for it x charges each battery, should be found in hospitals and can only revive players who died within x amout of minuts. also would give a natural way to have medics in game. Maybe make a medics outfit that you turn into same way bandit works after doing x amount of revives, transfusions, adrenaline or epi pens on others. i think it would be interesting to have a sort of three way between bandits medics and survivor groups. Might be that sometimes it would be better for a bandit to interact with medic instead of killing him for some mutual agreement like you heal me and i dont shoot you or something, which would also add a natural aspect to the game.

Defibrillator might need to be equipped as main weapon so approaching bandit can shoot in case medic tries to pull out a gun, but still gives medic a chance, just an idea.

Edit: seems bandit mechanic is a bother and might get scrapped. so the medic thing might not be worth it anymore or at least not atm.

[sgtsnug 26]

Edit: seems bandit mechanic is a bother and might get scrapped. so the medic thing might not be worth it anymore or at least not atm.

The idea behind player revival isn't just a counter to their being bandits, it's to avoid people travelling in groups losing a buddy to an incident, friendly fire, enemy sniper, a 1 hit KO from a zombie, etc... and offering a chance to bring him back without that 1 guy spending hours getting lost in the effort to return to the group only to have missed out on everything.

Aside, just cause they remove bandit skins doesn't mean their wont be bandits.

[ssential 0]

+1. I'd love to see a player revival system implemented. Promotes teamwork and keeps groups together. IMO it balances itself pretty well.

-Needs a lot of medical supplies (epipen, morphine, bandages, painkillers and especially lots of blood)

-Fallen guy dies completely in 5 minutes

-Environment needs to be cleared by zombies/bandits/enemy survivors, else the danger is too high as the reviver is an easy target

[mooncabbage 2]

Dead is dead. If you get torn to shreds by zombies or bleed out from a gunshot wound, there isn't much anyone in the post-apocalypse world can do about it. There is already quite a bit of pre-death stuff in the game, compared to standard arma. If you get shot, there is the chance to bandage you and nurse you back to health. Also your vision etc degrade with your health. I dont think this mechanic is necessary.

[FrIEND (DayZ) 9]

STRONG +1

[kablet121 4]

Along with that why don't we change the respawning system completely so that when you die you just respawn at the coast instead of having to reconnect to the game and getting the waiting for server response issue.

[Land Squid 22]

I would like to see the defibrillator be semi-rare' date=' but also take up a gun slot (preferably the rifle so that not every group of 2 people is willing to have a medic).

Blood bags being needed sounds reasonable, but I think I would want something more along the lines of some sort of charger for the defibrillator. (Batteries Perhaps?) Then after the person is back up, he has to receive the medical treatment (i.e. blood bags, morphine, painkillers).

Being able to revive people is a useful tool, but it shouldn't be considered easy to do.

Edit: Maybe the defibrillator is static, but it needs new pads for each use. Going off of the type that are found in common public areas. Since these type usually have easy to follow instructions, the realism factor would still be preserved that anyone would be able to do this. If you have to though, I suppose you could have a say, 50% chance that you save there life, and a 50% chance you shock them to death. Adjust those odds however.

[/quote']

As SgtSnug suggested, I was also thinking the defib should be part of a backpack in the game. A Crash Bag if you will (looks like the coyote backpack but is either black or khaki with a giant red cross on a white field slapped on it's sides). Reduced number of slots (because there's presumably a defibrilator and other medical gear in there) as compared to the Alice or Coyote Backpack, and a revival should take a bloodbag, bandage and two epi-pens to work (hey, it aint easy to bring someone back from the dead).

[HardTarget 27]

Dead is dead. If you get torn to shreds by zombies or bleed out from a gunshot wound' date=' there isn't much anyone in the post-apocalypse world can do about it. There is already quite a bit of pre-death stuff in the game, compared to standard arma. If you get shot, there is the chance to bandage you and nurse you back to health. Also your vision etc degrade with your health. I dont think this mechanic is necessary[/size'].

While true, there are bloodbags about, so a bleedout is managable in terms of treatment (so long as it doesn't last longer than 5m in which cells would begin to die off), while vital organ damage... not so much, I give you that in this discussion.

I think this is the major part that needs consideration, in terms of certain things. I would hate to have ended up in a scenario where I know I downed someone (likely out of fear of being shot myself/in a high-stakes area such as the NWAF) with a clean headshot only for their buddy to prop them up moments later. Certain factors, such as a killing head wound/being currently eaten by zombies should prohibit this from being abused (if implimented) as a way to just "up" a player, as well as consistantly up a player (who has been downed multiple times).

I do love some of the suggestions regarding it, such as batteries and whatnot, so if you want to avoid the Wall of Text incoming, I'll make a TL: DR section or somesuch.

First point - The suggestion of making a "timer" regarding how long a person can be recussitated (SP) is the first thing this would need. Typical bloodloss is, what, 5m before vital cells die if memory serves correctly? Obviously a bloodbag would need to be on hand, and the person would need to be revived in time before allowed to perk up from a shock. Also, being actively eaten by zombies should lower the timer each time the zombies eat the player, until it hits zero and revival is impossible. Also possibly have the "downed" animation to one of the current Arma II animations, where they fall down and are unable to move anything but their head.

Second - I do like some of the ideas regarding how the defib should take up slots, by why not take this a possible step further? While having the defib as a toolkit and/or replacing the backpack, why not also add a Medkit backpack replacement as an opportunity (Rare drop at hospitals)? It will hold (due to most medical materials being smaller than other items) a larger quantity than most backpacks of medical supplies only or a bare minimum amount of slots for other items. While this may seem counter-intuitive due to the necessity to hold items, the default inventory would still work with holding a selective amount of ammo, food and water (Not to mention pistol ammo/bandages already have their own designated slots in Arma). Still, this is moot in comparison to the defib addition, which the exact mechanic of how it takes up slots should be anything short of replacing the entire backpack (It wouldn't be worth it to me to drop a 20slot ALICE or 24 Coyote Backpack for a meager chance of revival), and maybe batteries should be counted amongst industrial loot as a semi-rare chance.

Three - This should be a bit of a lengthy process, and should take a good deal of medical supplies (as a few others have listed, such as Ssential). Instead of just propping over, scrolling and pressing a button to perk them up, perhaps the already default Arma II "healing" animations can be used (The person putting their hands on the other's chest already can be inferred as defib pad placement). This could create intensive moments of groups laying suppressive fire for their medic to drag their fallen comrade over to cover and THEN revitalize their friend. Obvious items would be - Bloodbag (due to bloodloss), defib, bandage and epi-pen just for basic revival. The bloodbag should ONLY revive to a bare-minimum amount of blood to avoid the player consistantly passing-out (instead of full blood) while consuming the bloodpack. The player will still suffer the "shakes" from being hit, and (if shot in the legs, persay) any broken bones that were associated pre-death, meaning additional supplies of painkillers/morphine if needed.

Fourth - Finally, this shouldn't be something that can be consistantly re-used without end. I would hate to keep taking out the same player in a group (or being taken out only to be revived, taken out again, repeat ad infinium) with them perking back up over and over because their medic managed to stockpile enough supplies for five/six revives. If someone has recently been revitalized, there should be some sort of down timer before their body can physically withstand being shocked back to life. How long? I have absolutely no idea, but I'm certain that can be fleshed out over time (Perhaps 10m?).

TL: DR - 5m max of being "down", batteries for it in industrial zones, should take some time to revive, and no constant revival (timer of maybe 10m to prevent reviving consistantly)

---------------------------------------------

I do think it will promote a lot of cooperative gameplay and I'm really in favor of this mechanic, but I want to make sure it gets proper restrictions that prevent it from being abused, while preventing those mechanics from making it non-viable. Where that balance lies is to be determined, but I do hope to see it in the future of DayZ.

+1 for Defibrillator addition

[mooncabbage 2]

Thanks for your considered reply HardTarget.

As it is, the idea behind the blood system does everything people in this thread seem to want, without allowing magical resurrection. If you do die in game, it's because you've taken a lethal gunshot wound, or been torn apart and eaten by zombies. Anything more than 0 blood, and you are not dead. Your friends can bandage you, they can give you blood packs, etc, and nurse you back to health. Defibrillators and other tools are not required for the system to work.

What you could add, is the ability to carry a severely wounded friend to safety, or drag him while holding a pistol. I believe all the animations are already there in ArmA2.

Also I don't think gunshots are integrated into the blood system, which could be causing some of the problems. If a gunshot did a certain amount of instant blood loss, + x bleeding per second, it would work better with the existing health system. I don't know, maybe it does that, I've never been shot and lived long enough to find out.

I believe that's the correct direction to move in, not this. Not resurrecting the dead. Even if it's possible in the arma engine, it's so.... BF2. It's not realistic that a pair of paddles are going to heal your gunshot wounds and trauma. So not just no, HELL no.

[Frito Pendejo ☠ 4]

+1, but you still keep broken bones/etc and like 1000 blood after res. It should be a 2nd chance, not a purple potion

[HardTarget 27]

Quick Edit: Post directed to Moon for clarity

I get what you're saying, but perhaps I've ended on the wrong side of the stick where a single shot in the side took me from 12k Blood to -364 or some arbitrary negative number from a non-powerful rifle shot (like the Lee/DMR/M24/etc). Perhaps my thoughts may be a bit slanted, but I do understand what you're saying. "Lethal" is a vaguish term however, due to the multitude of re-iterations it's gotten. Lethal in medical terms is indeed terms of "no return", but there are many sorts of treatable wounds from gunshots. I will not claim to be some sort of soldier medic expert, but I doubt that a person cannot be revived if they lost blood (in a single shot, or maybe 2) in the side with proper administration of additional blood, treatment of the wound area (stitching as well), and with a good zap if their heart has indeed given out. Now, headshots/lethal heart/lung wounds I can absolutely understand.

Perhaps the overall issue isn't that we need a "revival" system but that we seem to lose a lot of blood from arbitrary things/too much from certain things? I know I was at 12k recently and was shot (by a winchester) on a server, ran around a corner, and proceeded to die with -6k hp. I have no clue if he headshotted me, but it was somewhat laggy as it took a moment before the hit fully registered to me (despite the fact I swear I was around the corner by the time he shot, but that's another issue), so perhaps he did. But that's quite a lot of blood to lose in a single shell of slug ammunition.

I understand it's meant as Military Sim, that's what drew me to the game before I played, and I've been playing a good deal of the single player recently. And I swear I die LESS to the Arma II bots on Veteran (I fall down and can be revived by squad mates) than DayZ. Perhaps it's been my luck, perhaps I've been headshotted and my views are slanted, I don't know. But I have yet to see a side where I actually "Bleed" out, rather than just die from a shot or two immediately. If you can point me/explain different situations where that's been the opposite, then I may just side with you. As I said before, I'd hate for this to end up an abused mechanic of different squads which will allow them to consistantly pop up their members so they never lose their gear.

[mooncabbage 2]

I don't disagree with you, it's probably too easy to die from gunshots at the moment. I'd say that's a holdover from ArmA proper, where the second shot will kill you, if the first one didn't.

My point is, the correct way to fix it is to adapt the wound/blood mechanic, NOT to add resurrection. Gunshot wounds should be debilitating, life threatening, but not instantly lethal. The reason they probably are is because being wounded isn't really a useful mechanic in core arma.

It comes down to a balance between too low a chance of saving yourself, or being saved, and shooting being ineffective. I'd be annoyed if I shot someone, and they shot me back. Perhaps if when taking a large amount of blood loss, you became blinded by your pain (screen whites out and fades back to colour), then it might be acceptable to have guns be less lethal. Perhaps a large calibre gun like an AK or an Enfield could do 6000 blood from a body shot, plus some bleeding.

A lot of stuff was stripped out of the ArmA2 medical system deliberately by rocket, including the ability to revive players who were seriously wounded. You could also pick up wounded players, or drag them. I would suggest that some of that stuff could be added back in, like the ability to carry and drag players, and the wounded animation (seriously wounded troups would lie on their back and writhe around a bit), could be added back for players with blood <2000.

And if you're dead, you're still dead.

[HardTarget 27]

Have to take a moment and prod fun: That "shooting someone only for them to shoot back" happens wayyyy too often with certain latencies and whatnot on my end, but I get what you're saying in all seriousness.

Now on topic: After reading through, I'm finding myself agreeing more with you. Gunshots seem to be the overall end-all within a very miniscule amount of hits. People are at least a bit more resilient to it than the current blood-system works out (imo, although I've never been shot IRL so feel free to prove me incorrect on this).

I recognize the default Arma II wounded animations/carry and drag ones from before, had to help a stupid NPC squad mate one too many times already. So perhaps far less immediate blood loss, but replaced by the continual bleeding (As it is we can already bleed out from a single hit from a zombie unless we bandage, kind of odd to me) already implimented? It'd be more fun to play medic if more people were, well, alive to medic, so to speak. So yeah, I'm thinking you may be in the right ball-park here, the fact isn't we need a revival, but we tend to die so easily from player-inflicted wounds/gunshots far too quickly. Granted nothing stops the person from shooting whoever is knockdown into death, but it will allow at least some sort of chance to revive a person if possible.

For the prevention of being shot back, perhaps the knockdown mechanic should be a bit higher for certain types of ammo? I have never been knocked down with a gunshot aside if I instantly died, so maybe the higher caliber NATO rounds or AK/AKM's should give a high chance of kicking your butt onto the ground as well if the overall blood loss from a shot is reduced and changed to more bleeding? Would also promote teamwork if it meant you could be knockdown, but potentially SAVED as well, the team scrambling to get you before you bleed out (like I said before, laying suppressive fire while someone/a medic drags your poor butt out of the field).

[GENDERS 3]

I think a head shot should be dead, dead...and being ripped to pieces by Zombies.

Everything else should be revivable so teams / groups can actually help their teams mates from not dying and having to re-spawn miles away.

Or, you can choose to spawn on a friend?