Pure Sandbox? Pure Schmandbox!

[fish911503 136]

Even in the basest forms of carbon based life there are rules and orders and hierarchies. When these "phenomenon of order" cease to exist the host organisms self destruct. It's naive to think even a virtual world could survive for any extended period without some semblance of class, hierarchy and rules. No known organic system has ever subsisted without these things. They quickly devolve into chaos and self destruct. I'm just sayin' ;).

[Louis13245 29]

Even in the basest forms of carbon based life there are rules and orders and hierarchies. When these "phenomenon of order" cease to exist the host organisms self destruct. It's naive to think even a virtual world could survive for any extended period without some semblance of class, hierarchy and rules. No known organic system has ever subsisted without these things. They quickly devolve into chaos and self destruct. I'm just sayin' ;).

0_0

The universe is the largest sandbox. Apart from the laws of physics, we are products of such a system. The fact that we created law and order means that it can occur from a sandbox enviroment.

We've yet to self-destruct and destroy ourselves.

[ThatGuyCalledReptile 314]

What if. Stay with me here..

We're all tiny carbon life forms, on a rock, floating in space, that's inside a galaxy, inside a universe, inside the black void of visible space.

How does that sound?

[fish911503 136]

0_0

The universe is the largest sandbox. Apart from the laws of physics, we are products of such a system. The fact that we created law and order means that it can occur from a sandbox enviroment.

We've yet to self-destruct and destroy ourselves.

Yes yes! And I offer that not only CAN order come from chaos, but order MUST come from chaos. Order can't NOT come from chaos! You see what I'm getting at?

What if. Stay with me here..

We're all tiny carbon life forms, on a rock, floating in space, that's inside a galaxy, inside a universe, inside the black void of visible space.

How does that sound?

What is the black void inside of?

[ThatGuyCalledReptile 314]

What is the black void inside of?

Who knows man.

Maybe we'll find out some day.

[dsi24 227]

Yes yes! And I offer that not only CAN order come from chaos, but order MUST come from chaos. Order can't NOT come from chaos! You see what I'm getting at?

What is the black void inside of?

Order is already arising from chaos. :)

[fish911503 136]

Order is already arising from chaos. :)

Awesome!!! Edited August 6, 2012 by playZ

[fish911503 136]

0_0

The universe is the largest sandbox. Apart from the laws of physics, we are products of such a system. The fact that we created law and order means that it can occur from a sandbox enviroment.

We've yet to self-destruct and destroy ourselves.

And not only are we products of such a system...we ARE such a system....and we Produce such systems....Hah!!!

One thing though....you said

..... "Apart from the laws of physics...."

please explain :)

Edited August 6, 2012 by playZ

[Jswah 7]

The only reason DayZ hasn't self destructed is ((Because when we die we re spawn)) Without respawning after death Chern would be an empty, desolate place with nothing but zombies. ((As we would have all killed each other.))

[Rick Grimer 29]

Actually there can be life without rules, orders and hierarchies. Life based on Moral and common sense. Yes, in some way those are "orders" but not as strict. How it works just depends on the people.

[fish911503 136]

Actually there can be life without rules, orders and hierarchies. Life based on Moral and common sense. Yes, in some way those are "orders" but not as strict. How it works just depends on the people.

ton tuohtiw. emoS redro si yrassecen. sdrawkcaB si na redro etisoppo fo drawrof. :)

seriously though what do you mean when you say "common"sense?

14c., originally the power of uniting mentally the impressions conveyed by the five physical senses, thus "ordinary understanding, without which one is foolish or insane" (L. sensus communis, Gk. koine aisthesis); meaning "good sense" is from 1726. Also, as an adjective, commonsense.

Ordinary "belonging to the usual order or course," from O.Fr. ordinarie, from L. ordinarius "customary, regular, usual, orderly," from ordo (gen. ordinis) "order" (see order). ;)

Also check the origins of morality and dependency.

You say these things are orders "in a way". They are orders by their very definition. Give me one example of life existing without rules, order, hierarchy....please?? :)

Edited August 6, 2012 by playZ

[euryale 72]

sorry op, your point is bulshit. There is hierarchy in the game, just find a clan and you'll see.

[fish911503 136]

sorry op, your point is bulshit. There is hierarchy in the game, just find a clan and you'll see.

What point?

[JESUSARIUS REX (DayZ) 163]

We were made by aliens and the government. Solved.

[fish911503 136]

We were made by aliens and the government. Solved.

Finally the truth!!!! :)

[indominator 95]

theres no order, we create it from what we perceive is needed, for each new society a different one is needed, dont implement democracy in dayz we are all nomads, we will first start with a totalitarian state and maybe go to a more military democratic one that will conquer all who opose. just like ancient greece

[fish911503 136]

theres no order, we create it from what we perceive is needed, for each new society a different one is needed, dont implement democracy in dayz we are all nomads, we will first start with a totalitarian state and maybe go to a more military democratic one that will conquer all who opose. just like ancient greece

Well there IS order. It sounds like what you're saying is there isn't one singular order that dictates over everything. If there were I suppose we would/could call that order God?

[Rick Grimer 29]

Give me one example of life existing without rules, order, hierarchy....please?? :)

You really want me to give you examples? Anarchy. Derived from ancient greece "Anarchia" (means no reign). Thats as simple as it is. Life in DayZ right now is total Anomy, which is, other than Anarchy, a life without rules, order and hierarchy BUT also without moral and common sense, by which I mean knowing whats objectively right or wrong. But we still play and exist, so life can exist without that, but it would be much cooler if everyone would use some of it.

The struggle between Anomy and Anarchy is the central point in every post-apocalyptic scenario. We shall not just cut that off by installing some things like votes, parties, representatives because thats a very interesting process to observate. It tells us much about us and our, humanitys, behaviour.

Dont take away the exciting question: How will we, without additions from rocket, organize our selves?

Edited August 6, 2012 by Rick Grimer

[fish911503 136]

You really want me to give you examples? Anarchy. Derived from ancient greece "Anarchia" (means no reign). Thats as simple as it is. Life in DayZ right now is total Anomy, which is, other than Anarchy, a life without rules, order and hierarchy BUT also without moral and common sense, by which I mean knowing whats objectively right or wrong. But we still play and exist, so life can exist without that, but it would be much cooler if everyone would use some of it.

The struggle between Anomy and Anarchy is the central point in every post-apocalyptic scenario. We shall not just cut that off by installing some things like votes, parties, representatives because thats a very interesting process to observate. It tells us much about us and our, humanitys, behaviour.

Dont take away the exciting question: How will we, without additions from rocket, organize our selves?

Thanks....but I think you've mis understood me...tell me. .WHERE has anarchy succeeded\subsisted? Where has anything anywhere subsisted in a state of anarchy? Eventually ORDER (in some form) returns or the thing collapses. Always. Anarchy is Chaos and i addressed it in the OP....Chaos is always temporary...It has to be because LIFE as we know it, from muons to galaxies, by its very nature, IS organized.

And as for your final question...How will WE, without Rocket (leader) organize ourselves? IDK. but we will..because its who we are and what we do by our very nature.....or we\it dies.

Anarchy literally means without a leader . But lack of leader doesn't mean there are no rules, order or hierarchy. At least not for long.

[Rick Grimer 29]

Actually i didn't wanna go into a discussion about Anarchy, I rather wanted to focus on that psychological aspect with Anarchy and Anomy. But if you wanna see examples of life and succeedings of anarchy i highly recommend researching catalonia in the spanish civil war 1936 or the Machnowschtschina(Revolutionary INsurrectionary Army of Ukraine). But that was not my point. I just wanted to consider the difference between Anarchy, which is by far no chaos but a political theory about peace and freedom without any form of reign or hierarchy AND anomy which is the official term for that what is called "Anarchy" in the modern press and by most people. Anomy is Chaos, no moral etc. Anarchy is the opposite. I am just saying how it is and thats how it is known among experts.

But as i said, I just wanted to say that i'd hate seeing such structures as government etc. being brought in because it takes away the freedom of choice of us the players to build whatever society(or else) we want.

[fish911503 136]

Anomy is Chaos, no moral etc. Anarchy is the opposite. I am just saying how it is and thats how it is known among experts.

Thanks again for the thoughtful response and for correcting me. So if Anomy is no morals, rules, order, and Anarchy is the opposite as you say, then Anarchy is NOT an example of life subsisting without rules, order, hierarchy, ect....but Anomy IS.

Honestly I had never heard the word Anomy before and somehow managed to glance over it reading your post.

But as i said, I just wanted to say that i'd hate seeing such structures as government etc. being brought in because it takes away the freedom of choice of us the players to build whatever society(or else) we want.

Ahhhh...finally my suggestion becomes clear to me. I knew I was posting in suggestions for a reason

I too. wouln't want "government" imposed on DayZ by the Developers....But I would love to see some simple (or not so simple) mechanic\tool for US to implement it in the game world.

Maybe a structure or object...that when captured (and while held) grants something to that clan or group. A supply or resource maybe....nothing too powerful but something. Maybe some city building resource....Some sort of SIm City style system within DayZ...that could be fun.....I'm just thinking.

Where as everyone in the game world could easily get resources to build crude bases

The ruling clan could have access to things like cement, smelting, and advanced resource management. And they could do what they wanted still.....they could oppress and hoard....or provide a safe haven for social interaction and trade.

I don't want anything handed over easily....but a tool....something refined....Think of it. Power struggles, rebel assaults, all out war, reigning families...the possibilities are great I think. Really give us controls to shape the game experience in a dynamic way. The description of a massive, persistent, first person sort of Age of Empires. But true to it's current state stylistically and much, much cooler comes to mind.

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

Something much more complicated I feel is necessary is some morality mechanic. The game was after all meant to be about, survival and inducing emotional response. So I feel something needs to be coded in here.

There is no way to make "death" meaningful, it's just a game after all. I go refill my coffee and start again, but we could make murder meaningful. It would be complicated yes. I have some ideas but I wont talk about them now.

Anyway my original post was really about me being afraid in a way. Me being afraid that if the state of Anomy (thanks for that word :)) in the game world currently doesn't shift to AT LEAST a state of Anarchy...then the project may suffer as a result. I think, in a way, it already is.

Edited August 6, 2012 by playZ

[xeaglenec 13]

i agree with the OP. REMOVE COD WEAPONS! (1 HIT KILL)

[fish911503 136]

i agree with the OP. REMOVE COD WEAPONS! (1 HIT KILL)

You sure you're posting in the correct thread? Your comment doesn't seem relevant.

[xDIx Revenge 51]

Did i fail to see the suggestion in this thread?

[fish911503 136]

Did i fail to see the suggestion in this thread?

Maybe...Up until 4:29pm PST today it was merely suggestive. But it has now grown into a full blown suggestion. (see long post above :)) Edited August 6, 2012 by playZ