Death needs penalties. Suggestions welcome

[Rising (DayZ) 99]

The game is getting a little boring for some people who have played it for some time, ie a couple of weeks/months. I've been thinking about why, and perhaps the game is a little too easy. Dont get me wrong, DayZ is still pretty hardcore with perma death and full loot pvp, etc, but after you die 200+ times, you already know exactly what to do to get back on your feet, and some people even have a shitload of tents to restock themselves with.

Players hunting other players out of boredom is also a problem, despite what others suggest. The game allows you to pvp freely, but I have never read anything nor heard rocket claim that DayZ is a pvp simulator, or that pvp = endgame. Pvp is a choice, but right now it is the only thing to do left for many people. By restricting respawns and adding a death timer, maybe then people might start taking their lives a bit more seriously. Think about it. In a real apocalypse, no doubt there will be murderers and bandits, but not EVERYONE becomes a senseless killer because, well, in real life you only get one shot. People will then be more willing to work together instead of killing for fun. I don't think it is normal for a large percentage of the player base to kill others for fun. and the only thing that can make people think twice before pulling the trigger is if DEATH ACTUALLY MATTERED. Let's say, for the sake of raising a point, there is a respawn restriction of 1 hour after your first death. It would be annoying as hell, I can see that, but the point is not to annoy the player upon death, but to force the player to think twice before putting his own life at risk. I'm not trying to penalize bandits or restrict PvP, I am looking for ways to make DayZ even more realistic and gritty, where people would actually face consequences for their actions.

tl;dr - Death needs to be harsher still. On one hand it might turn away a handful of casuals, but it's a gamble, because it might actually satisfy the majority of players who want a more realistic experience than just point,click,shoot, find another player, point,click,shoot. You can still do that, but once radios are implemented and the players in the server have a more effective means of communication , the killers will probably want to think twice before murdering a stranger, lest he wants to be hunted by the server.

A wanted/bounty system would also be amazing, especially if it can be scripted somehow.

[Ashnik 113]

Personally losing all your stuff is pretty bad. Most people don't have tents stocked with stuff, like me. I got all the best stuff in the game really and I don't have a base at all. Dying would be dramatic, but I would get over it

[Nubz_Unite 8]

this doesn't decrease the amount of pvp in anyway people will still kill people the only thing your preventing is people from playing.

[ODoyleRulez 195]

PVP isn't the only thing to do. Again.. sandbox game.. do what ever you can think of. consequences will be more harsh when they get the duping and ammo bugs fixed. Don't you think?

I don't like your idea for locking me out of my game when I die. That is just poop.

Why don't we go even harsher? Electrodes taped to players balls, when you die ..ZAP.

[Quaby 93]

There is perma-death. Most people don't have tent supply caches. The death penalty is already at its highest without being gratuitously annoying.

[Rising (DayZ) 99]

PVP isn't the only thing to do. Again.. sandbox game.. do what ever you can think of. consequences will be more harsh when they get the duping and ammo bugs fixed. Don't you think?

That would only slow the clannies and powergamers down a bit. Actually I think they might even hunt players even more aggressively to fill their stashes.

I'm not trying to limit PvP, instead im thinking of ways to discourage it without implementing restrictions. I brought up the idea of NPC guards but they don't seem to fit the DayZ world, and most people weren't too thrilled about it either.

[bazbake 456]

Throw out tents and vehicle storage. Make everyone either start from the beginning or have their friends guard their dead bodies until they come back.

I keep hearing these stories of people PVPing and committing banditry and then hoarding all of these weapons and equipment in camps. Then they run off and grief newspawns all day until they're killed. Then they run back to camp, pick up another gun, and then run out and start killing again.

If you removed tents and vehicle storage, it would cut down on PVP, cut down on hoarding, and increase the difficulty level all at once. But it would have absolutely no negative effects on new players in the process. This is the easiest and simplest solution I've heard from anyone so far so I think it needs repeating. Everyone who dies should start from the beginning -- period. Otherwise it's not really permadeath...it's kinda-sorta-death-maybe-I-guess.

Edited August 6, 2012 by BazBake

[mansa 5]

I don't think this is the right solution. They should implement features that benefit group playing instead of further punishing people who die, even if they added this I doubt it would stop PVPing at all. I have pretty much gotten to the end-game right now and I must admit that I have nothing fun to do anymore, a few days ago I went to the coast just to shoot some people from the hills. Its a dick move but I don't trust anyone besides my group so this is the only thing I can think of doing right now.

tl;dr Need more end-game content and features that benefit group-playing

[Grodenn 53]

I think this is a very interesting idea not the first time this have been suggested though but still very interesting. I would love to see how it would play out, maybe it wont work at all maybe it will? There have been other suggestions hinting at more like a 12h respawn timer which is a pretty devastating long time. But question is would it inflict some sense of a moral behaviour with players? Would killing feel like a morally wrong thing to do? In the end it might just be a very annoying feature but I really believe we need to try this out when we are in the alpha stage.

I also think that your stored items need to be affected when you die, like deleted or what not (this is probably not the best solution though). Actually I just got an idea what if your tents get marked on the in game map for everyone too see (when you are killed). Even if this is not the most realistic thing it would punish you rather hard for dying, (maybe unfair for a group base to get relieved if one member fucks up?) it would also make the in game map useful.

[Rising (DayZ) 99]

two terms i keep hearing in the replies... "stop PVP" and "annoying"

stop PVP - im not trying to stop it, but to discourage it subtly. Does harsher laws stop crime?? Nope, it merely discourages would-be criminals to do it, unless they were truly desperate (or evil).

annoying - well, that's one of the main points of my post... Death should be annoying, it shouldn't just be 'routine' like it is now for many experienced players.

This is a very tricky issue and I admit I still don't have a perfect solution. If I did, i would be in rocket's team as an advisor or something. HOwever I am also against the idea of visual indicators like bandit skins. I understand rocket wants to put it back in next patch as a test. But i would prefer that players govern themselves and exhibit a bit of self control.

[stripes 92]

Rocket has already stated that he is against any sort of 'punishment' system.

He is however looking at ways to give players more 'options' and incentives NOT to kill other players & I believe is open to suggestions along these lines.

[DemonGroover 8836]

1 purchased copy of Arma 2 = 1 life of Day Z.

You die = Goodbye

There you, go real life.

[Rising (DayZ) 99]

Rocket has already stated that he is against any sort of 'punishment' system.

If that is true (against ANY form of punishment), then he must be a friggin anarchist.

[Grodenn 53]

Rocket has already stated that he is against any sort of 'punishment' system.

He is however looking at ways to give players more 'options' and incentives NOT to kill other players & I believe is open to suggestions along these lines.

He have also said he want to make death more devastating, I don't think he was talking about death punishment when he said he didn't want a punishment system in the game. Rather he don't want to punish any type of game play style (like bandit/survivor for example).

[CerebralZombie (DayZ) 151]

I'm all for finding a solution, and this is a good start to broaden the options and help players brainstorm. I will take some time to think up a solution too.

[miket 92]

If you put a one hour respawn timer on death people would be more likely to kill on sight. I'm not going to wait to see if someone is friendly if that means the possibility of dieing and having to wait an hour to respawn. If I kill someone, it doesn't matter to me how long they have to wait.

[Recom 6]

just some general thoughts on how to make the game more "achieving"

reduce the amount of tents per person and the overall storage room.

=> people are more aware of what they have.

reduce all kind of spawn, especially ammunition, tents and bags.

=> people need to measure more: is it worth?

add stamina.

=> sprinting through the world all the time isn't too realistic. arriving somewhere is more of an achievement

Edited August 12, 2012 by Recom

[wolfstriked 143]

This is just suggestion so don't rage hate me.I would love to see a system where its a 25% chance you will hit the target where you aim when you first spawn.The shots that miss will hit in a circle around your target and this circle will gain diameter with range.The reason is that its incentive to go out and get good at fighting with weapons and also a major boost to the death penalty trauma that the OP is looking for.Now for every 10 bandits or survivors you kill or every 100 infected you will gain 25% shooting accuracy.Say you kill 30 players in PVP,you will then be firing at a weapons trained level.

With a percentage chance to hit it will feel real since you could have a miss/miss/hit/miss/hit/hit/hit with the misses getting greater with range.This prolongs gun fights and that makes for a fun world while at same time....if you are a hardened survivor then you will be deadly to deal with.This way snipers will or rather must be highly trained with firing weapons but noobs can defend themself at very close range with ease as it is in real life.

Edited August 7, 2012 by wolfstriked

[xximrtwoixx 104]

I think skills would be a better solution to introducing content that reduces KOS, they would also be a way of increasing the death penalty. If players know that other players will beg for their life and surrender rather than hopelessly fighting back or running (I'm assuming ALTF4 is patched out) then they will also be less inclined to KOS for gear. This would also discourage the DM mentality of spawn/kill/die rinse repeat, but players could of course still take these actions if they wanted to without a punishment.

@Wolfstiked

I don't think a "spread" type of system should be included as it introduces randomness and luck over skill even under ideal conditions. I think the shaking hands used for pain/exhaustion could be expanded on though via skills so they last a longer/shorter time, dependent on your skill.

Endurance- 0-100% recover breath faster and extend time to go into winded mode

[bazbake 456]

Get rid of tents and vehicle storage.

[wolfstriked 143]

Thought of that but the problem with the shaking is its super annoying as its not done right.In real life we have a multitude of things to account for when firing a weapon.People who shoot rifles actually have to learn breathing techniques and how to counter wind etc.And iron sights in game are so easy its ridiculous.In real life you raise weapon and then have to point the tip up or down so that the front post centers in the rear post and then you need to keep this centered and move weapon to hit target.Modern sights like red dots take away this part of shooting but do not take away the breathing and the pull of trigger not disrupting the aim part.

We are supposed to be normal people in an apocalypse and seeing bullets firing around where your aiming would add to my game and even more so when that circle slowly starts to close in.Then there is the possibilities where your highly trained in AKM but suck with the SVD etc etc.You could train with various weapons and "if" Rocket ever makes it so that ammo is super rare and you fight with what you find.....then imagine losing this highly trained character.This idea is to add more risk feel to storming or even hunting players when your character is highly trained and capable to hunt and kill effectively.

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

If you put a one hour respawn timer on death people would be more likely to kill on sight. I'm not going to wait to see if someone is friendly if that means the possibility of dieing and having to wait an hour to respawn. If I kill someone, it doesn't matter to me how long they have to wait.

exactly..

punishment for dieing, would only further drive away new players, or even casuals.. perma-death and losing your gear is def. ENUF punishment already..

sounds to me like some people just played throu teh MOD to fast and dont truely understand a sandbox game model.. you have to provide your own reasons to play/enjoy your login time..

this isnt a WoW theme park game, were theres tons of premade content you go run throu..

[fish911503 136]

I think it's not possible to give death any more meaning than it has...I mean you lose everything..what else can be done? I think murder should be made more meaningful.....this would make getting geared up much more difficult for alot of players and curb the KOS a little..

[xximrtwoixx 104]

Punishment for death can be made much more severe, currently you lose things, these things can be easily replaced hell you can even go back and loot your own corpse.

If you lose things that can not be replaced except through time/play then the suck factor is greatly increased, that what a skill system would do. It would also allow players to specialize and thus increase their value beyond the items they carry and I think this is the only thing that would curb KOS. Even then though KOS will still exhist, especially when players are already in large groups they have no need of anyone else.

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

The simplest way of making death harsher is adding in more kinds of character progression(s) that are lost when a player dies, and can't be retrieved...

- Make part of the items in the inventory break upon death.

- Make clothes unretrievable

- Add learning-by-doing skillsets that get reset on death

- Add other kinds of character progression (stamina, strength, endurance) that get reset on death

Then there is also the general game, which are bound to come!

- Fixing hacking (so items can't just be spawned)

- Fixing Duping so items can't simply be reproduced

- Add more presure on loot tables by adding in more items to spawn, which causes 'needed' items to spawn less (aka. more garbage, and low tier items, less high tier).