Please, DONT add a bandit-indicator in this patch

[JulieMeyers 78]

I just saw Rocket on Machinima where he says they will introduce a bandit-indicator in this next patch.

39:30 in this video:

This is really bad for a number of reasons. Right now, you are scared of other people and you dont really know who to trust. That's good, since you will have to build that trust. Peoples agendas are not visible to you like a TF2-hat. It has a nice psychological impact on you as a player.

The bandit-indicator is moving the gameplay away from the realism-aspect of the game and suddenly you magically get a hat from heaven when you kill somebody. Things like this will ruin the immersion and while some players might think this is "cool" it's moving the game towards not feeling like a real thing anymore.

People tend to say "Duh, realism? ITS A ZOMBIE GAME".

Just as an aside, I prefer the term "authentic". It's more relevant to talk about what is authentic, than what is real. Because you end up in this crazy philosophical loop talking about what is real or not when playing a computer game.

So perhaps, it might be best to consider replacing "realistic" with "authentic" whenever someone uses the term, because I think - generally speaking - that's what they mean. I.e. "I can't suspend my disbelief on this point because its not authentic enough." Everyone has a different tolerance for varying levels of authenticity.

A classic example, the Winchester is a shotgun in game. Which, of course, is complete bollocks. I haven't had the time to change and 99% of people don't give a shit. Those that notice don't seem to mind its lack of "authenticity" because it doesn't effect their suspension of disbelief.

src:http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/597-ai-death-squads-bullet-lethality-and-delayed-disconnect/#entry7140

Rocket spoke of an idea he had a while back - that you would get bloody if you looted a players corpse. That's a much better idea since that doesnt really HAVE to mean that a player is a bandit. Maybe he just found a corpse along the beach and looted it? When another player meets him he might have to explain himself. Why is he bloody like that? Is he bandit?

Stuff like that is the really fun part of the game and it adds to the immersion and builds tension.

Please, please, please dont add any achievement-style cosmetic changes to the game!

Edit: People need to understand that this has nothing to do with "cod kids" or only bandits. This costmetic change applies to everybody and while some people might not think that immersion is an important part of the game, I do.

I am not against the indicator in general. I simply just want a realistic change/addition and not an achievement-style change (item appears from nowhere)

This costmetic change can be made in different and more realistic ways that will not remove anything from the immersion and at the same time the guys that just want the indicator gets their piece of the cake too. Both parties happy.

tl;dr: Dont want achievement-style modelchange. More "realistic" indicator wanted. (Increasing amount of) blood on clothes when looting corpses suggested.

Edited August 7, 2012 by JulieMeyers

[Jeppzore 19]

It's not a game, it's a mod and he's testing new stuff all the time because it's an ALPHA! Don't be afraid of the changes here, if they're really bad (the changes) they will get fixed.

So just play with it, or don't. That's your choices.

[SmashT 10907]

I can't wait for the indicators, the should have never removed them

[Xianyu 820]

So you prefer the current way where absolutely everyone considers everyone else a bandit and just shoots them on sight anyway? An indicator of banditry is needed. Why? To get rid of SOME of the bullshit KOS mentality. The players that play the game like CoD will quickly become visible. And they'll get killed. Repeatedly.

Getting bloody is a good idea, but guess what? The majority of greifers don't check your body for loot. They just sit on the hillside with a sniper rifle. You don't really come across true bandits. Because they kill you BEFORE they see you. Bandit identifiers mainly curb the 'up close' banditry. You know, where someone comes up to you asking for a blood transfusion, and then kills you two seconds afterwards.

The sterling silver point I shall make is that, since the removal of bandit identifies, there gameplay has gone downhill. Everyone has seen it. You don't 'guess' at someone's motives. You shoot them first, because there's no way to know if they're a bandit or not.

[Chopzzay 4]

Nah i think bringing this back is a good idea. Cus theres way too much cod kiddies atm. Sure its less realistic but you know, its annoying to always die to someone that just kills for fun.

[Chopzzay 4]

So you prefer the current way where absolutely everyone considers everyone else a bandit and just shoots them on sight anyway? An indicator of banditry is needed. Why? To get rid of SOME of the bullshit KOS mentality. The players that play the game like CoD will quickly become visible. And they'll get killed. Repeatedly.

Getting bloody is a good idea, but guess what? The majority of greifers don't check your body for loot. They just sit on the hillside with a sniper rifle. You don't really come across true bandits. Because they kill you BEFORE they see you. Bandit identifiers mainly curb the 'up close' banditry. You know, where someone comes up to you asking for a blood transfusion, and then kills you two seconds afterwards.

The sterling silver point I shall make is that, since the removal of bandit identifies, there gameplay has gone downhill. Everyone has seen it. You don't 'guess' at someone's motives. You shoot them first, because there's no way to know if they're a bandit or not.

Completely agree with you

[MrMudd 14]

Just so that you all know. I will still shoot anyone on sight.

[Xianyu 820]

Oh, and I might point out that one of the only ways to tell a bandit from the rest of the crowd right now is their outfit and weaponry. I'm part of the Regulators, and I don't shoot people without provocation. Call friendly, etc etc etc.

Oh, and I'm also found prone a lot, covering my team mates with an M107 and a ghillie suit.

People see me and assume I'm a bandit. I have all the bandit equipment.

[JulieMeyers 78]

Nah i think bringing this back is a good idea. Cus theres way too much cod kiddies atm. Sure its less realistic but you know, its annoying to always die to someone that just kills for fun.

You will always die. It's just a question of how. Bandits will still be there, and will still kill you for fun. This "indicator" could be made in a more reaslistic manner and you can read about that in my first post.

[ProB'en 1]

Having good karma ( high humanity ) doesn't mean that he can't kill you :D

[Seanyboy360 39]

Man, if the game was fully realistic the zombies would be able to kick your ass (since there infected) in there rage type mode. Why don't we have when you break your bones you gotta spend like x amount in some prone position or something to heal, who knows ;p. And "Right now, you are scared of other people and you dont really know who to trust. YOU should NEVER trust ANYONE unless there your friends simple as that. Even with this new patch, I'm still going to shoot that "nice guy" because. What if hes just saving his bandit kill for a geared player? Mostly everyone shoots on sight and I'm pretty sure its still going to happen :/. Noone likes the idea of getting bstted for a mistake you could of prevented.

If a zombie apocalypse happened in real life, I'm pretty sure in the local area, people would have to have some way to identify them from others, think of it as that way I guess. But who knows, Im going to enjoy my "scarf" I think lol :)

[Chopzzay 4]

You will always die. It's just a question of how. Bandits will still be there, and will still kill you for fun. This "indicator" could be made in a more reaslistic manner and you can read about that in my first post.

Yeah i know, but then at least i can know hes a bandit and shoot him BEFORE he kills me.

[Xianyu 820]

Man, if the game was fully realistic the zombies would be able to kick your ass (since there infected) in there rage type mode. Why don't we have when you break your bones you gotta spend like x amount in some prone position or something to heal, who knows ;p. And "Right now, you are scared of other people and you dont really know who to trust. YOU should NEVER trust ANYONE unless there your friends simple as that. Even with this new patch, I'm still going to shoot that "nice guy" because. What if hes just saving his bandit kill for a geared player? Mostly everyone shoots on sight and I'm pretty sure its still going to happen :/. Noone likes the idea of getting bstted for a mistake you could of prevented.

If a zombie apocalypse happened in real life, I'm pretty sure in the local area, people would have to have some way to identify them from others, think of it as that way I guess. But who knows, Im going to enjoy my "scarf" I think lol :)

Oh, the caveat the OP forgot to mention is that there's HERO identifiers coming, too. So you can see people who don't end up shooting survivors, and actively kill bandits or whatever.

[Sinvex 38]

Oh, and I might point out that one of the only ways to tell a bandit from the rest of the crowd right now is their outfit and weaponry. I'm part of the Regulators, and I don't shoot people without provocation. Call friendly, etc etc etc.

Oh, and I'm also found prone a lot, covering my team mates with an M107 and a ghillie suit.

People see me and assume I'm a bandit. I have all the bandit equipment.

Call friendly? That's EXACTLY what a bandit trying to kill me would do!

[JulieMeyers 78]

Oh, the caveat the OP forgot to mention is that there's HERO identifiers coming, too. So you can see people who don't end up shooting survivors, and actively kill bandits or whatever.

The point of the thread was that I dislike the achievement-style cosmetic changes. That does involve the magic "hero"-skin that you suddenly get. There shouldnt be any 100% sure way of telling peoples agenda.

[Xianyu 820]

The point of the thread was that I dislike the achievement-style cosmetic changes. That does involve the magic "hero"-skin that you suddenly get. There shouldnt be any 100% sure way of telling peoples agenda.

Hey, even if I get the hero skin, you're not going to be walking towards me calling 'friendly'. But you will be about 50% less likely to shoot me. Unless you're one of those bullshit CoD kiddies that have flooded the game.

And, given the current state of things...I'll get the bandit skin before I get the hero skin, why? because I'm overwatch. A survivor shoots at my bro, I take them down. And around northern airfield, or Starry, we don't take any chances whatsoever. All player encounters so far have ended in a shoot-out.

Simple point is, the bandit skins were pretty much universally liked. It was mainly the bandits who couldn't get easy kills any more that were complaining. You say it's an 'acheivement', and that players will TRY to get the bandit skin....and what has that changed about them? They ALREADY Shoot people will-nilly trying to get a 'high score'. I think you'll find there's a VERY low population of people who are going to say 'OH FUCK, I CAN GET A SCARF!' and suddenly go from helping people to being an utter cunt and hunting down noobs on the beach.

Bandit skins do so much more good than damage.

[JulieMeyers 78]

Bandit skins do so much more good than damage.

Yeah, but why make it an achievement-style thing instead of that blood-thing I mentioned in my first post. Wouldnt that be a much better change? That way you never really know peoples agenda but there's a pretty high chance they're a bandit.

Edited August 4, 2012 by JulieMeyers

[MrMudd 14]

Hey, even if I get the hero skin, you're not going to be walking towards me calling 'friendly'. But you will be about 50% less likely to shoot me. Unless you're one of those bullshit CoD kiddies that have flooded the game.

And, given the current state of things...I'll get the bandit skin before I get the hero skin, why? because I'm overwatch. A survivor shoots at my bro, I take them down. And around northern airfield, or Starry, we don't take any chances whatsoever. All player encounters so far have ended in a shoot-out.

Simple point is, the bandit skins were pretty much universally liked. It was mainly the bandits who couldn't get easy kills any more that were complaining. You say it's an 'acheivement', and that players will TRY to get the bandit skin....and what has that changed about them? They ALREADY Shoot people will-nilly trying to get a 'high score'. I think you'll find there's a VERY low population of people who are going to say 'OH FUCK, I CAN GET A SCARF!' and suddenly go from helping people to being an utter cunt and hunting down noobs on the beach.

Bandit skins do so much more good than damage.

Im gonna shoot you regardless. I want your items.

Edited August 4, 2012 by MrMudd

[Sinvex 38]

So you prefer the current way where absolutely everyone considers everyone else a bandit and just shoots them on sight anyway? An indicator of banditry is needed. Why? To get rid of SOME of the bullshit KOS mentality. The players that play the game like CoD will quickly become visible. And they'll get killed. Repeatedly.

Getting bloody is a good idea, but guess what? The majority of greifers don't check your body for loot. They just sit on the hillside with a sniper rifle. You don't really come across true bandits. Because they kill you BEFORE they see you. Bandit identifiers mainly curb the 'up close' banditry. You know, where someone comes up to you asking for a blood transfusion, and then kills you two seconds afterwards.

The sterling silver point I shall make is that, since the removal of bandit identifies, there gameplay has gone downhill. Everyone has seen it. You don't 'guess' at someone's motives. You shoot them first, because there's no way to know if they're a bandit or not.

Isn't that pretty much how it would be in real life? You think in a real zombie apocalypse I'm going to have an indicator that pops up if I'm a killer? No, you're going to assume everyone you come across is dangerous and not to be trusted...

[harken (DayZ) 57]

KOS is just the safest and most practical way to stay alive and this will be the defacto state until they add some kind of negative aspect to being a player killer. I met a random player in the cherno grocery store yesterday. I had the drop on em with an enflield, but like the idealistic spaz I am, I asked if they were friendly before opening fire.

"yeah buddy, just here for food!" he replied. He didn't aim at me and I moved on past him. 10 seconds later I took a rifle blast in the back. My fault of course, I should have killed him or not revealed myself. Fact remains though, there is no benifit to being a good guy and no drawback to being a bandit.

Until they change that, it's KOS.

[MrMudd 14]

Isn't that pretty much how it would be in real life? You think in a real zombie apocalypse I'm going to have an indicator that pops up if I'm a killer? No, you're going to assume everyone you come across is dangerous and not to be trusted...

Exactly this is what sets this game apaert form most other games. It adds a lot of tension to the game and make it THAT more exciting to play.

IF I know your agenda right away it removes that tension and turns the game into TEAM BLUE VS TEAM RED...welcome to Teamfortress/Counter Strike/COD

Edited August 4, 2012 by MrMudd

[MrMudd 14]

KOS is just the safest and most practical way to stay alive and this will be the defacto state until they add some kind of negative aspect to being a player killer. I met a random player in the cherno grocery store yesterday. I had the drop on em with an enflield, but like the idealistic spaz I am, I asked if they were friendly before opening fire.

"yeah buddy, just here for food!" he replied. He didn't aim at me and I moved on past him. 10 seconds later I took a rifle blast in the back. My fault of course, I should have killed him or not revealed myself. Fact remains though, there is no benifit to being a good guy and no drawback to being a bandit.

Until they change that, it's KOS.

WHY do you need an indicator? Because you want to stay alive longer? How about you are more careful instead? Yes he shoot you supirse welcome to the major fun/psycholgical aspect of this game. Trust and distrust adds tension to the game. If you get a visual cue that tells you a gamers agenda taht entire aspect is gone and all that is left is team A vs team B. Basically it tturns the game into a shoot liker CSS, COD, BF3 etc.

[Xianyu 820]

Yeah, but why make it an achievement-style thing instead of that blood-thing I mentioned in my first post. Wouldnt that be a much better change? That way you never really know peoples agenda but there's a pretty high chance they're a bandit.

Because the 'blood' idea doesn't stop the greifers. You know, the people who kill you and then move on without even bother to check for loot.

Isn't that pretty much how it would be in real life? You think in a real zombie apocalypse I'm going to have an indicator that pops up if I'm a killer? No, you're going to assume everyone you come across is dangerous and not to be trusted...

If you kill a ton of people, it kinda shows. It's a sixth sense thing that most humans have. If you come across someone who's killed a lot of people it just shows somehow. Like you can tell with a lot of vets, too. They've seen some shit. Serial killers don't really apply because they're already fucking mental to begin with.

But first and foremost, it's a game. And removal of bandit identifiers caused the current state of the game. It's not 'guess the other guys motives' it's 'shoot the other guy first'. Everyone's seen it happen. There's a difference between 'don't trust them' and 'okay, just fucking shoot them'. And with the removal of bandit identifiers, 99% of players are now 'just fucking shoot them'.

*Edit* Are you guys playing the same game? It's ALREADY COD. It might as well be Red Vs Blue teams, because everyone shoots everyone else on sight already.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Xianyu

[Chopzzay 4]

Isn't that pretty much how it would be in real life? You think in a real zombie apocalypse I'm going to have an indicator that pops up if I'm a killer? No, you're going to assume everyone you come across is dangerous and not to be trusted...

Well thats the poing, its not real life. Its a game soo people can do whatever they want in it. Thats why theres soo many cod kiddies.

[MrMudd 14]

*Edit* Are you guys playing the same game? It's ALREADY COD. It might as well be Red Vs Blue teams, because everyone shoots everyone else on sight already.

No right now its unmakred players vs players and zombies. The way it should be. Giving away poples agenda like that removes a lot of tension. Also, people will shoot on sight regardless of your skin if you have good gear.