The team work philosophy (Shoot on sight / group play)

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

Disclaimer.

- For those who have read this already, it use to be "The Vaccine for Shoot one sight tactics is teamwork" But i'm rewording cause it's not really about shoot on sight tactics, though it is a factor.

- Every thing here should be optional. I'm not forcing you to play a certain way/feel a certain way

- This is not a "hard" suggestion. It is more of a idea, a point of view that I personally suggest the game should go towards. It is a endorsement for a way of thinking.

- If you have a hard suggestion that promotes team work and doesn't force you to do anything. Post it and I'll add it to the main post.

__________________________________________________________

The main point of this is group play. I also think this will ease up on aimlessly killing people.

I was watching people post idea's like:

A) Players run towns

http://www.dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=6976

B) Humans are built for Information exchange - solution to Excessive PKing

http://www.dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=6986

C) Player Revival

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=706&highlight=defibrillator

and my posts:

D) Power Plants, electric grid, and Generators V 1.5

http://www.dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=6791

E) More Items that take up the backpack slot.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=10471

I suggest you read these, I will not be going in great detail about any of these post specifically.

If there where more Team based objectives, also taking away side/global/command/group chat, adding more things to nudge people towards socializing face to face instead of being a hermit. talking to someone miles away and shooting on sight cause they are scared to loose anything. The players will be giving more incentive to pull out of these tactics because of a slight push for group play.

Giving at the start of the game you will be dealing with 50+/- other players who don't belong to a group so then there will be 50 lone wolfs who can't communicate, people will be compiled to find each other. It's only human nature to socialize

But as the game progresses, 50 players will unite in small groups to have better survivability, those groups will shrink or gain in size... ending up with 1-3 huge groups, a couple small groups, and some lone wolfs. The huge groups will be attempting to seize very powerful elements that are in-play i.e. Power plants, Towns that spec in certain type of loot. etc.

If they abuse these powerful elements, smaller groups will unite to over throw them.

Maybe the Power plant fraction aren't doing the job so the Town Fraction tries to take the power plant from them to get a more efficient power source then generators or maybe the town that is occupied has meds, and that's what the power plant fraction needs.

-Towns will have supplies and a low level power supply. (See Power Plants, electric grid, and Generators V 1.5)

-Power plants will have control over the lights in half of the map and have no supplies but are located near Chenera and Elektra (two really hostile towns)

Brings the game in to a whole new dept.

Now you may be saying. Once all these societies are built what else will there be. I believe since food/water/sickness/blood-loss is a factor, it will require fractions to keep evolving to adapt to the situation.

I personally believe and suggest that if this was the philosophy for this game, it would ease up on shoot on sight tactics, or "death match mentality", The bean wars would ease up. I believe coming to gather as a group, or rebuilding society is a part of survival in a post apocalyptic world. Currently people group up, but kill each other at the same time. The Objectives I suggested will be the glue to hold groups together.

[wolfmat 2]

You're excused, we're all super-tired, GUESS WHY haha.

I'm down with coop objectives. Actually, one kind is already in the game - vehicle fixing.

I would also like to mention my idea of wandering megahordes of zombies again.

The power plant mechanics were already built by someone, as you might know, so they could actually work out.

Player-run towns was something I tried to establish once also, so I'm down with that, too.

I'm ambivalent about the information exchange idea though.

[TeaLeaf 5]

I agree that making teamwork more prevalent would resolve a lot of issues. Just make extra manpower more important than an extra can of beans and people will be less likely to shoot each other.

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

You're excused' date=' we're all super-tired, GUESS WHY haha.

I'm down with coop objectives. Actually, one kind is already in the game - vehicle fixing.

I would also like to mention my idea of wandering megahordes of zombies again.

The power plant mechanics were already built by someone, as you might know, so they could actually work out.

Player-run towns was something I tried to establish once also, so I'm down with that, too.

I'm ambivalent about the information exchange idea though.

[/quote']

Yeah the information exchange was scratchy, their are parts in it i don't like either but i love the cutting chat part.

Also mate, if you have an idea that promotes teamwork that's already in a thread. post it here and i'll add it to the 1st post.

And teamwork with cars is the 1st step but There isn't enough team work required objectives to keep a group together after they have the car ;) They could just end up shooting each other. but if these idea's where implemented. then they could use it to get the fuel to run the stations. causing them to stick together longer with out any revolts

[combatcomm1 234]

+1 all the way man.

Edit- I guess I should try to clear up or defend my information exchange concept. The ultimate goal is the addition of game mechanics that reward or rather give the upper hand to those who seek to gain information from others.

Varying loot location in different servers = This example mechanic would allow people to exchange information about where things have been spotted lately as opposed to once u know where to find loot a, its always generally in the same spot.

Varying Location of edible plants and animals - Are deer in season in the north this month or the south? East West? Are penicillin mushrooms growing better on the outskirts of stary or pusta this week? If these things change it allows people who conversate ask questions the ability to get a one up on survival.

Ponds with algae blooms or bacteria = this can change so that water sources are more desirable than others. The socially savy player who learns from others what ponds are dirty that day wont waste time, energy, temperature loss, and food to get to a water source that he can only drink from if he boils.

Recipes for food or medicine & crafting= All medicines, foods, instructions for crafting skins, items etc should all be soley found or taught to you from other players. Sure all humans know how to drink, open backpacks, eat from the start or whatever. But you have to learn how to make medicine, which plants are poisonous and which help, how to build an effective fire, first aid etc. Humans are not all bestowed with first aid or CPR training. This should all be things learned from other players expiriences only.

Again, the reason humans have come together throughout history to form cultural groups and dont kill each other on sight like many other animals, is we survive, and survive better than any animal because of information exchange.

[Shag 90]

I don't like much of what you say, but you have hit one nail right on the head with regards reducing player killing. Removal of global comms will really sort out rampant hunting.

If you bascially spend the entire game time wandering around on your own with no global chat, people may naturally start to feel a little isolated.

If the only way people can interact is by proximaty, then naturally people will group.

My God it is so simple it is brilliant. There is no need for side objectives etc etc.

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

I don't like much of what you say' date=' but you have hit one nail right on the head with regards reducing player killing. Removal of global comms will really sort out rampant hunting.

If you bascially spend the entire game time wandering around on your own with no global chat, people may naturally start to feel a little isolated.

If the only way people can interact is by proximaty, then naturally people will group.

My God it is so simple it is brilliant. There is no need for side objectives etc etc.

[/quote']

I disagree with side objectives. the point of side objectives is to keep teams together, they may cure loneliness by grouping up.. but if they don't have anything to do they may also get bored, and this may lead to people in the same group to start shooting each other.

the side objectives will be the glue that keeps the groups together.

[combatcomm1 234]

I agree with bullfrog. The need to talk and learn from people will be the initial draw to talk to one another long enough to get to know each other. The prospect of making the world (server) a better and more survival place for themselves or human kind as a whole will lead them to stay together. Objectives and game mechanics that can only be completed with multiple people.

And why is that noones agrees that crafting, medical, environmental dynamics should SOLEY be discovered and learned from other players? YOU ARE NOT BORN KNOWING HOW TO APPLY A TOURNIQUET OR GIVE CPR. You must learn from other players in game. Its how humans interact and learn from one another. This is essential.

[dremux 0]

I'd love to see this stuff implemented. I'd totally be up for more teamwork, I'm tired of being shot and killed when I try and help someone just because they are scared of me betraying them. Even though I've said I would help them, I know saying "friendly" in chat doesn't really work, that's because you can't tell someones meaning very well through text as you could through actually hearing their voice.

But I digress, all in all I'm totally in support of this! =D

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

And why is that noones agrees that crafting' date=' medical, environmental dynamics should SOLEY be discovered and learned from other players? YOU ARE NOT BORN KNOWING HOW TO APPLY A TOURNIQUET OR GIVE CPR. You must learn from other players in game. Its how humans interact and learn from one another. This is essential.

[/quote']

For the record Victor, the only part I didn't really like was the part you talked about people's mental state.

I really liked your book idea (I.e. http://www.dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=7434 )

I think improving knowledge is as equally impotent to improving gear.

[Shanefromwalkingdead 4]

The moral effect theory is the dumbest thing ive heard. Look at the worlds most prolific serial killers, they acted like completely normal people in public.

I seriously fucking hate people like you who try to limit player freedom and favor one playstyle over another. You people are the reason we dont have many sandbox titles today.

Go play left for dead or any other zombie game thats watered down and linear.

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

The moral effect theory is the dumbest thing ive heard. Look at the worlds most prolific serial killers' date=' they acted like completely normal people in public.

I seriously fucking hate people like you who try to limit player freedom and favor one playstyle over another. You people are the reason we dont have many sandbox titles today.

Go play left for dead or any other zombie game thats watered down and linear.

[/quote']

did you even read the post.

In the Moral effect theory post, i stated that i was opposed forcing anyone to feel anything. the game will take care of it if the game is done right.

in this post i'm giving people more options, not restricting freedoms. if you want to be a lone wolf bandit who shoots on sight, knock your self out. I do think people do it cause there is nothing else to do though.

[mikyjax 3]

Totally agreed on all you said guys.

I would add : Remove the killing mention "Nickname was killed"

You want to know if someone is killed? man... there is a function called check pulse so walk :p

(we could even add a function "fake dead"^^)

And replace the "salute" by agitating arms in a friendly ways.

Mike

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

Totally agreed on all you said guys.

I would add : Remove the killing mention "Nickname was killed"

You want to know if someone is killed? man... there is a function called check pulse so walk :p

(we could even add a function "fake dead"^^)

And replace the "salute" by agitating arms in a friendly ways.

Mike

some very good suggestions, i'll ad them to the post in a little bit

through since saluting is how people tell if they are friendly or not I think they rather not do that ;) but it would be a nice feature

[dharion@drahl.com 5]

Personally like the idea of global objectives, since those kind of goals would also be present IRL and could make for some amazing plays from all sides.

About the learning system;

How do you decide who knows what?

There is no idea as to what you already knew before you ended up on that beach, so who says that you don't know how to use medical supplies etc?

Don't dislike the idea, but feel it wouldn't really work nor fit in DayZ.

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

Personally like the idea of global objectives' date=' since those kind of goals would also be present IRL and could make for some amazing plays from all sides.

About the learning system;

How do you decide who knows what?

There is no idea as to what you already knew before you ended up on that beach, so who says that you don't know how to use medical supplies etc?

Don't dislike the idea, but feel it wouldn't really work nor fit in DayZ.

[/quote']

Honestly, You can call me a politician on education policies ;)

I don't really care for class systems, I think it's silly. you're right it wouldn't fit in.

If there was going to be a way of learning skills that I approved of. it would be this one:

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=7434

Just say they got knocked in the head while landing on the beach and got amnesia lol

It needs some polishing, but that way of learning I could live with.

I could care less if there was or wasn't a educational system in placed in the game though

P.s. I don't recall me ever saying I wanted a educational system through, it may be in one of the links, if it is, I don't 100% support that part of it. If it is in my post, tell me I'll remove it.

[dharion@drahl.com 5]

[...]

P.s. I don't recall me ever saying I wanted a educational system through' date=' it may be in one of the links, if it is, I don't 100% support that part of it. If it is in my post, tell me I'll remove it.

[/quote']

Actually was aimed @

[...]

And why is that noones agrees that crafting' date=' medical, environmental dynamics should SOLEY be discovered and learned from other players? YOU ARE NOT BORN KNOWING HOW TO APPLY A TOURNIQUET OR GIVE CPR. You must learn from other players in game. Its how humans interact and learn from one another. This is essential.

[/quote']

Sorry, should have quoted him first to avoid confusion.

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

It's alright mate, we're all human

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

1st post edited.

All post from here to the main post where replies to the original version of this thread.

I tried to keep it as similar as I could to keep your opinions the same but I can't speak for you.

Thank you.

[combatcomm1 234]

How bike threads and passwords for tents get more discussion than these great ideas that the devs really need to be looking at is beyong me. Bumping.

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

How bike threads and passwords for tents get more discussion than these great ideas that the devs really need to be looking at is beyong me. Bumping.

The moral effect theory. It was top post for a good week+ because it is a controversial post. People will keep arguing/defending it saying its was "forcing you to do something, you should be forced to feel" or "There is a PVP problem something must be done" and this argument can go on like a congressional debate

[hoik 415]

If there where more Team based objectives' date=' also taking away side/global/command/group chat, adding more things to nudge people towards socializing face to face instead of being a hermit. talking to someone miles away and shooting on sight cause they are scared to loose anything. The players will be giving more incentive to pull out of these tactics because of a slight push for group play.

Giving at the start of the game you will be dealing with 50+/- other players who don't belong to a group so then there will be 50 lone wolfs who can't communicate, people will be compiled to find each other. It's only human nature to socialize

But as the game progresses, 50 players will unite in small groups to have better survivability, those groups will shrink or gain in size... ending up with 1-3 huge groups, a couple small groups, and some lone wolfs. The huge groups will be attempting to seize very powerful elements that are in-play i.e. Power plants, Towns that spec in certain type of loot. etc.

If they abuse these powerful elements, smaller groups will unite to over throw them.

[/quote']

I think this is an desirable outcome of extended gameplay in DayZ.

This is my "Hard" suggestion. It is designed to encourage teamplay without punishing lone wolfs - with the added benifit of creating an overarching value to the lives of players.

It'll do it like this:

*Each server keeps a log of the no. of deaths (by PvP) that occur. It also logs the total number of players. Dividing No. of Deaths against players gets an average player death count.

(This indicates co-operative behaviour)

*Each server also logs players average lifespan.

(This indicates survivalist behaviour)

*These two data sets then can be assigned to a value on a scale that will determin loot density and value (which, of course, is the difficult part)

See here for a detailed description with some calculations which could make this viable:

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=10295

(I swear its not dull at all :))

Its a simple mechanic that holds a mass of potential (in my opinion) for promoting teamplay without punishing those that choose to lone wolf. In fact, at its most extreme, agressive PVP will become a neccessity for survival.

And, like I said, none of these decisions will be dictated to the players but a natural evolution based on the decisions made by the populace as a whole.

________________________________________

EDIT: To clarify - I was wrong to call this a "hard" idea, infact it is about as far oposite you could get without having total chaos.

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

I think this is an desirable outcome of extended gameplay in DayZ.

This is my "Hard" suggestion. It is designed to encourage teamplay without punishing lone wolfs - with the added benifit of creating an overarching value to the lives of players.

It'll do it like this:

*Each server keeps a log of the no. of deaths (by PvP) that occur. It also logs the total number of players. Dividing No. of Deaths against players gets an average player death count.

(This indicates co-operative behaviour)

*Each server also logs players average lifespan.

(This indicates survivalist behaviour)

*These two data sets then can be assigned to a value on a scale that will determin loot density and value (which' date=' of course, is the difficult part)

See here for a detailed description with some calculations which could make this viable:

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=10295

(I swear its not dull at all :))

Its a simple mechanic that holds a mass of potential (in my opinion) for promoting teamplay without punishing those that choose to lone wolf. In fact, at its most extreme, agressive PVP will become a neccessity for survival.

And, like I said, none of these decisions will be dictated to the players but a natural evolution based on the decisions made by the populace as a whole.

[/quote']

You're post is a tad confusing, I'll have to reread it a couple times before I fully understand it.

[3rdparty 229]

Ai this be school of thought i was thinking of XD I wrote a small thread on group dynamics linking both those controlling threads. The main idea was that by creating these deeper team objectives that have an impact on the server environment you create a situation by which only the largermore organised groups will be able to hold down areas, and so the biggest occupations tend towards more open groups willing to take on people, i.e the ones more likely to have people there 24/7.

You make this game mechanic/play accessible by creating different objectives/occupations to suit different sized groups and loners.

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

these bigger objectives like the one you quoted in your post, as you said require a bigger group and that means those groups would have to be more open volenteers.

Those volunteers could be saboteur or w.e leading to so much more dept to the game, specially then it is now. These little uprisings in groups could cause a entire civil war in a server!

plus it would pull out so much emotions like Rocket wants, Satisfaction or frustration. forum bonds between players that aren't stuck in TS3.

Depth is what this game needs.