Humans are built for Information exchange - solution to Excessive PKing

[combatcomm1 234]

IT IS ALL ABOUT MAKING SURVIVAL DEPENDENT ON INFORMATION EXCHANGE

I will reiterate that a few times in this post. Its the most important aspect of the success of this amazing mod/social experiment. And unfortunately something Rocket should have addressed from the start. The damage can still be undone with a quick update. Every day that goes by with global chat on, breeds new players who have already learned the game mechanics from a distance and will see no need in socialization. The culture of the game has been damaged with global chat and youtube videos.

Humans are social and cultural animals. We are designed to get information from each other. A dog gets his information from the world. His sense of smell, his ears. Humans have large brains that allow us to get information from other humans.

Crafting, medical, environmental dynamics should SOLEY be discovered and learned from other players. YOU ARE NOT BORN KNOWING HOW TO APPLY A TOURNIQUET OR GIVE CPR. You must learn from other players in game. Its how humans interact and learn from one another. This is essential. In order to solve the delima of player kills you have to give the person who is afraid of death so much he shoots on sight, something to gain from interacting with other players. Other humans. Information! Stop with the global chat! Stop with developer given tutorials and help. This must be removed and removed soon. Stop hand feeding new players with information on how to do ANYTHING. The only prompt they need is at the beggining of their spawn - "The only way to gain information is to communicate with other players".

What about veterans who know the game or people who look on youtube or google? Introduce game mechanics that require veteran players the need to know information of the current state of the world around them on that day at that time. Ever changing dynamics, and the only way of knowing and adapting is to talk to and interact with other players.

For example

-introduce migrating zombie routes that change.

-Allow players to train as meterologist and give them access to forcasts so they may tell others.

- Change the weather system to only rain in some areas so that a player trekking south can tell the players trekking north that it is training and he should prepare himself.

-Daily or monthly spawning locations of certain edible plants for medicine or energy boosts. Player A tells player B where he has seen a few.

- Random assignment of dirty water ponds (algae bloom for realism) so that players can communicate that information and dont waste time going to a pond that requires more effort to drink from

ETC ETC. The ideas are countless----IT IS ALL ABOUT MAKING SURVIVAL DEPENDENT ON INFORMATION EXCHANGE

Intense and deep character custimization can help as well. If bandit A has a specific skin color, shirt, hat, glasses, shoes and is on a rampage in city B, than player C can tell everyone else about him. Describe him and where he was last seen. It creates a culture of information exchanging friendlies that over time will spread. People will value people for their information exchange. If a bandit kills someone and gets all his loot. As more immersive loot comes about, he may not know how to use said loot because he has been shunned by this society that will be created. He knows nothing of the current state of the world or how to survive in the world.

Its so simple. Global chat is a scourge. It defeats any purpose of requiring another human being from being physically alive or conscious in front of you to tell you things. The forums will always be here and people will always make tutorials. Some sad souls will get some information and than kill you. That's inevitable. But I guarantee you that if we embrace the very reason that humans dont go around killing other humans, information and culture, this game will take on a whole new level. Over time the information exchange concept will breed a new thought into the heads of would be PKers. Global chat removal should be on rockets A priority list. Creating the variable and dynamic game mechanics that require persistent information exchange are than second .

IT IS ALL ABOUT MAKING SURVIVAL DEPENDENT ON INFORMATION EXCHANGE

Iv seen other ideas that are great (Making the player value his life so they value theirs, INTENSE character customization so that blatant PKers are made to value their life, that with information exchange could much more easily be destroyed) and in conjunction with this idea will do absolute wonders for this game.

I will offer one more idea, somewhat inline with information exchange and human social dynamics. Rocket, take a psychological approach to this game. We want it realistic and we must all realize a game must have certain mechanics to simulate human emotion. Humans who go without genuine social contact for too long will lose their sanity in one way or another. Whether is depression, PTSD, mania, inability to socialize effectively. A survivor in post apocalytic wold is not a gamer. So while it is easy to be shunned by the world and not talk to anyone and kill and collect beans in a game, in RL this would have serious implications on an animal meant to socialize and be around its own kind.

I apologize in advance for the messy orginization of the post, im not an avid forum goer or gamer for that matter. Id love to see others ideas for game mechanics that would require persistent and genuine information exchange. Thanks for reading.

[rukqoa 4]

You're onto some things.

+ Global chat to be removed is good. I don't want to hear about people asking whether there are friendlies in cherno (I'll shoot on sight anyway).

+ Changing loot spawns is good.

+ Weather patterns and meteorology is good, I suggest implementing this in some sort of radio system. If you find a "weather radio", you'll see where hurricanes, tornados, thunderstorms ...etc are coming on your map as notes (dunno if the ARMA mod allows that).

I don't agree with the sanity system though.

[scoffield77@gmail.com 192]

I really agree with this post, I've personally witnessed my self turn in to a player who uses side chat and hides from the world. so I agree with taking away chat (not direct chat)

Through when you say, new players shouldn't have a tutorial. I think that's not right. You know how to drink in real life, it's a basic action that doesn't really require teaching through in DayZ you don't know how to drink so basic tutorial should be required.

With this being said: I agree with almost your whole post

there will always be people who uses TeamSpeak or Skype to cheat Dayz communications. There will always be youtube. no way around that.

+1 vote to this idea

Edited: I don't like the idea of the game forcing a mental state on you. if the game was "realistic" it would make you feel bad for killing, or feel lonely for hiding in the woods IRL.

[Sanctusorium 0]

TOTALLY support this idea! I'd love for info to actually be a useful resource in this game.

[TeaLeaf 5]

Awesome Idea!

[Arhodus 0]

1. Remove Global chat

2. Fix Direct chat.

Agree 100%

[ABORT 5]

This is awesome!

[rocket 16567]

1. Remove Global chat

2. Fix Direct chat.

Both will occur with next ArmA2OA version release (1.61)

[SteamTrout 18]

1. Remove Global chat

2. Fix Direct chat.

Both will occur with next ArmA2OA version release (1.61)

I actually think having global chat access if you have the radio would be an interesting idea.

[sandzibar 1]

1. Remove Global chat

2. Fix Direct chat.

Both will occur with next ArmA2OA version release (1.61)

I actually think having global chat access if you have the radio would be an interesting idea.

if each town/village had a radio transmitter/reciever, and you had to stay near it to "use/hear" the chat.

but then we're back to the "why" question. what is the benefit of communication with people NOT on your TS/Skype?

[masterjts 1]

The only thing that worries me about this is that new players will now be totally lost since they wont even be able to ask questions in game over global. I answer 100 questions every night for new players and now I dont know what I will spend that extra time doing :(

[sandzibar 1]

The only thing that worries me about this is that new players will now be totally lost since they wont even be able to ask questions in game over global. I answer 100 questions every night for new players and now I dont know what I will spend that extra time doing :(

you could wander the coast line screaming "Im here to help you!" in direct chat.

yeah.. cant see that going wrong at all :D

[Katana67 2907]

1. Remove Global chat

2. Fix Direct chat.

Both will occur with next ArmA2OA version release (1.61)

Does that mean just voice chat or text? Both? Because I would really appreciate not seeing a wall of blue/white/green spam in the lower left corner of my screen.

I'd love for Direct Voice/Text chat to be working, that would be fine. I just hate the freakin' wall of text. I think it'd lend to the hardcore/survival/realism aspect of Day Z to get rid of that.

[JohnnyCockroach 5]

A basic tutorial is absolutely necessary. Like Bullfrog said, people know how to eat, drink, use their backpack and shit in real life but they have no idea how to do that in DayZ without some help. Entering the game should be made easy, so that everyone who joins in knows enough to use the interface, otherwise the game is not about survival for them, it's just a complicated piece of software that they need to learn how to use, and the game is filled with newbies shouting "HOW DOES ME DRINK WATER?"

The game should be accessible to the point where people who come to the servers will be immediately sucked in to the world rather than to deal with a complicated interface and a shitload of different buttons they don't know how to use. THAT is what's ruining the immersion. A complete and simple tutorial that explains the basics of the game, the controls and the interface is absolutely necessary.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

You mean... like the one that is PART OF THE BASE GAME?

[alexkidd 0]

Hi VictorM :)

You got some really good idea's there.

-introduce migrating zombie routes that change.

-remove global chat

-weather forecast? Brilliant!

I'd love to see these implemented.

But I don't think these are enough to "MAKE SURVIVAL DEPENDENT ON INFORMATION EXCHANGE". And if I can access information via forum, wiki... why would I approach a total stranger risking my life?

I have to know that this "stranger" won't kill me.

The only way I see this happening is with a "non-pk building". Not a whole city or area but a few small buildings(For example a bar in the wild west) spread through the map.

exp)

Let's say I have a high tier weapon but low on ammo. I don't want to go to the NW Airfield "too dangerous".

Also the weather looks bad it might rain. So I go to this town, walk close to the street

where the bar is. There could be a sniper around so I shout "Clear?"

Somebody in the bar shouts back "Clear!"

So I cross the street. I go in meet some total stranger, but hey I don't need to be afraid.

The bar is safe.

I get in start to greet people, and start to do business

*Trade: Ask for a certain kind of ammo I need

*Info: Listen to the weather forecast (Radio in the bar maybe?)

: Check the wanted list for "excessive" killers.

*Group: Team up.

*Chat: Talk about anything make friends, or eavesdrop while sitting in the corner.

Information exchange as you said is important, but I don't think it will be enough to lower the PK rate. If I'm a bandit, what stops me from asking information then killing and looting a guy? Nothing.

There needs to be a place where I can safely talk/trade.

As I said, I like your ideas but I say it's still too dangerous.

[aragos 1]

Interesting ideas.

Global Chat: Only available to people with radios. Large FM radios. The kind that take up as many slots as a tent (e.g, the old US Army backpack PRC-77 radio). Requires batteries that are heavy and run out, or a generator kit, which is even heavier.

Direct/Local Chat: Good stuff. Latter represents "me talking to you" the other "me yelling in the neighborhood."

TS, et al: Love me some TS3. As it is, the world is filled with mutes who have to write everything on notes. TS helps with immersion.

+on more variety and items in the world (from medicial plants to varying water supplies)

-psychological impact issues. First, everyone who was terminally traumatized by the Zed are probably Zeds at this point. They broke down, went to pieces and tried to make nice with Mommy, who promptly bit them. The survivors are people who adapted to that reality and thrived enough to get a pistol, a couple of cans of beans, and some bitchin sunglasses. The issues of group interaction, et al, happen in the mod itself; that is the real lab for human interaction, without any gamey overlay needed. Bandits kill, you don't know who to trust, etc. is counterbalanced by the Batman shooting down the bandit who is tracking you because he wants to, or the guy who gave you a water bottle when you needed it, or the team that forms to clear out a town or rebuild a bus.

+Migrating Zed routes. Brilliant. Also, players who die have a % chance (based on how many hits they take from Zed) on being infected themselves and reanimating. Will cut back a lot on the "ah, kill me and I'll respawn and get my stuff" gamey play.

---

Hi VictorM :)

You got some really good idea's there.

-introduce migrating zombie routes that change.

-remove global chat

-weather forecast? Brilliant!

I'd love to see these implemented.

But I don't think these are enough to "MAKE SURVIVAL DEPENDENT ON INFORMATION EXCHANGE". And if I can access information via forum' date=' wiki... why would I approach a total stranger risking my life?

I have to know that this "stranger" won't kill me.

The only way I see this happening is with a "non-pk building". Not a whole city or area but a few small buildings(For example a bar in the wild west) spread through the map.

exp)

Let's say I have a high tier weapon but low on ammo. I don't want to go to the NW Airfield "too dangerous".

Also the weather looks bad it might rain. So I go to this town, walk close to the street

where the bar is. There could be a sniper around so I shout "Clear?"

Somebody in the bar shouts back "Clear!"

So I cross the street. I go in meet some total stranger, but hey I don't need to be afraid.

The bar is safe.

I get in start to greet people, and start to do business

*Trade: Ask for a certain kind of ammo I need

*Info: Listen to the weather forecast (Radio in the bar maybe?)

: Check the wanted list for "excessive" killers.

*Group: Team up.

*Chat: Talk about anything make friends, or eavesdrop while sitting in the corner.

Information exchange as you said is important, but I don't think it will be enough to lower the PK rate. If I'm a bandit, what stops me from asking information then killing and looting a guy? Nothing.

There needs to be a place where I can safely talk/trade.

As I said, I like your ideas but I say it's still too dangerous.

[/quote']

Not a bad compromise, but you end up where the snipers hang out outside of the "safety" range of the bar. So, you trade, walk 10m and get shot--and we all know that the same types who do spawn camping would do it in a heartbeat.

[combatcomm1 234]

Nothing will help those who seek to circumvent the game and make things easier for themselves. If someone chooses to go online for all their info than sucks for them. They want the game easy, they dont want the same immersion expierience I want or that rocket is trying to create for them. Same as players who print out maps to look at on their desk in the real world. I dont do it because it kills immersion and makes the game easy. Rocket said that he would always seek to make the things available for people to play the "hard way" People will always use teamspeak, cant do anything about that.

As for teamspeak, I don't know exactly how it works but if you come across someone who isn't in teamspeak and they have information that is awesome and relevant to u and you than cannot get it than sucks for you. I guarantee that direct chat will create a MAJOR difference in the culture of this game. That is why i suggested the ever changing dynamics that would give the IN GAME communicator an upper hand. You cant go on a forum to get information that changes on the fly in a game server. Its too complex, no one would know everything.

Another thing is a lot of people play this game for a social experience. They will feel lonely if they are not in teamspeak and want to find people to talk to. Server admins should discourage teamspeak and encourage in game chat only. Even bandits will get tired of not being able to boast their kills to someone. It will get old. So they will seek to communicate and talk.

All this no PK area and safe zones stuff though, they are a bad ideas cuz they are unrealistic. Its about allowing us to do what we need or want to do based on a realistic framework. If you want to create an area that's "PK free" you as a survivor should band up with other survivors who all have the same goal in mind and create it within the realistic realm of the game. So enlist people to guard the "PK free trading zone" With enough like minded people guarding/patrolling the area no bandit would survive long even if he killed one person in the trading post/city. Make it so that its PK free because its dangerous for a bandit to act up there. Not because some magical zone that dosent allow bullets to penetrate flesh was created.

[aragos 1]

I think we are in violent agreement. TS really is only a substitute for a working local/direct chat system in game. It allows talking, at least to someone, in what would be a pretty boring PvP game. As to immersion, I agree completely. Ditto on the no-PK zones. Sort of defeats the entire purpose. Somewhat like having a 'no murder zone' in a modern real world city. The 'no murder' part comes in with police, armed citizens, et al--sort of dissuades that from happening.

You want it in game, you make it happen by getting a big team together and enforcing your will, etc.

[combatcomm1 234]

Yes, a lot of it will lay on the server admins to not provide a teamspeak server for the game. Or is this something that individual groups and players can set up themselves?

[Minesplorer 0]

VictorM your ideas are extremely interesting! I’d love to expand your ideas even further, especially the information exchange based survival.

Direct Chat makes the game so much more immersive in many ways. You feel as if the guy speaking to you was right next to you. Now you may even have to stay quiet or whisper if some unknown players show up in the distance.

Migrating Zombie routes sound great. Large amounts of zombies bunching up together and blindly following the zombies at the front. Just imagine travelling the forests and suddenly seeing an army of zombies; now that should get your heart pumping.

I think that when it comes to information exchange we could orient ourselves in humanity’s past. The very thing that allowed humanity to survive was working together. There would always be people who would be good at a certain thing, a skill if you will, that alleviated the burden of survival. In a tribe, one guy could be exceptionally good at tracking animals while another could know natural remedies to a multiple ailments and yet another recognises patterns in the clouds and might be able to predict weather. Now these guys lone-wolfing in the wilderness may survive on their own, but they sure as hell would be having a harder time then if they were to work together and exchange their knowledge.

When you play Dayz there is little incentive to team up with an unknown guy, after all everything he can do, you can do as well. What if something like a skill/class system could be implemented? I do not know whether or not this is a path that Dayz should take but I can’t help but notice this aspect of realistic survival where people actually benefit by helping each other (in contrast to making loot scarce for a group).

In a zombie apocalypse people would survive effectively by networking their skills. The survivors would have had a past history that could help them out (+) or harm them (-) after the collapse of society. These are just ideas, probably even very unbalanced ones that I would be open to discuss.

Survivor (No specialisation, Jack of all trades)

+ Standard kit you spawn with in Alpha

Mechanic

+ Able to repair vehicles (Functional vehicles could brake down after time)

- No weapons at spawn

Paramedic/Nurse

+ Can do blood transfusion without risk of infection

+ Carries extra medical supplies at spawn

+ Can use splint on survivors with broken legs

- No weapons at spawn

Botanist

+ Identifies useful plants in wilderness

+ Starts with extra supply of them

- No weapons at spawn

Hunter

+ Starts with Hunting Rifle

+ Can obtain more meat from an animal

(+ Can spot wildlife easier)

Feel free to add any “class” or to dismiss the whole idea =)

[the musical fruit 1]

I was thinking along similar lines, there are bunch of reasons for pvp, and ultimately no disadvantages to killing a better equipped player and stealing his kit, because every character has the potential to be an unrealistically self sufficient survival machine if they merely discover the correct items.

Introducing rare spawn classes (perhaps just with a single item use skill) would create more incentives to team up and introduce greater tension between the low humanity/high humanity playing styles.

http://www.dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=7256

[combatcomm1 234]

I hate the idea of spawned classes. HOWEVER, if rocket were to implement books as rare loot that gave one player knoledge on how to do something than maybe it could work that way. The mechanic class vs medic class is too console like. I dont know, I like the idea of books as its another cool thing to search chern for and than when you meet someone who has read that book and can repair that specific vehicle or air craft than he can let you know. If you kill him than uv lost that valuable knoledge base.

So implement books, pamphlets, military manuals as knoledge gaining collectable loot. Rare enough books that coming across the player who read the electrician manual is worth not killing and can now can help you turn the powerplant back on. Because you found a read the diesel power generator manual! ;)

[seannybgoode 10]

Rocket is never gonna make zones for trade or non-PK zones.

Further more, if there was a "No PK building" I for one, would sit outside of it and kill people entering/exiting.

[resident emil 1]

I agree with OP, these are good ideas. I also object to all ideas regarding safe zones and "no PK" buildings. What I would like to add to this discussion is: Please remove the kills counter. Pressing "I" ingame shows a kills leaderboard that I guarantee are driving some of the PK's ingame, "Look at me, I haz the 500 kills. I'm The badassest mofo around!!!!". Im not trying to ban kills, just the automatic counting of them. If you kill someone and want to keep track of your kills, you have to remember it yourself or make some mark in your notebook next to your computer. You will never be absolutely sure you got a kill unless you stay around the target until you are absolutely sure. But most important, you have nothing to brag about unless you communicate with other people. If you want to be infamous as the worst murderer, you will have to work on that image. Ofcourse kills should be removed from the debug monitor too.