Why the "HIVE" won't work until we have some stability

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

The reasons the HIVE server is a bad idea:

1. The login/out data recorded is useless... why?

When a hacker starts mass killing the server, I log the fuck out. This now logs me as an ALT+F4 even though I'm sure as shit not going to hang around while some knob-jockey has his merry way with me. The log data has no way of distinguishing the reason someone logged in or out... it's sure as fuck not gonna say "Sol had to go suddenly because he has a sick 3 year old" or "Sol had to go because a client rang and he had to leave for a meeting". After all of that, I have to check my fucking "karma" status to make sure I'm not being flagged for logging out? Fuck me.

2. It's slow

Disabling the respawn button, was to loosen the load on the server. Great lot of help that was now when the hackers from reason #1 teleport you into the middle of the ocean, and the shore is a 3 hour swim away. I'm glad the server load is better, I'd sure hate to waste MY time.

3. Data collection in general

It's not even needed if the game was using a private server system (like Minecraft for example). It slows down server traffic, and generates more latency. Most of the data is going to fucked anyway due to countless bugs, crashes, hackers, and any other erroneous bullshit you want to chuck in the mix. Data collection should also be volountary. If you "want" to "help" then play on a hacker filled public server... if not, then give us the files for private servers.

4. Map size

The map is way too small to have any form of "tranquility" server, where all players exist on the same map/instance. If the game was to be split into smaller instances with a smaller population limit, it would be no different to now, again strengthening the argument for private servers being allowed. Making a large enough map for all or at least most of the current GUID population to play on will take YEARS to build. How long are you going to wait?

5. Cost

To support the current player base of 800k+ players, this HIVE server would need to be semi Google capacity. Last time I checked rocket was doing this shit for free... Dreaming about a central server where everyone plays is a liability from his point of view. It would be far more profitable for him to just release the shit and let us play the way we want.

6. The player base hates it

No brainer. Enough of us hate the idea, so why keep pushing it? It clearly isn't working, so unless you can control the people fucking it up for everyone else, again your data is going to be useless if anyone can just run a script and make any kind of weird and wonderful crap happen.

7. It's good in theory

This is NOT the first priority that the dev team should be focusing on. I know and understand FULLY the benefits of using a HIVE/Tranquility style server. This engine simply isn't up for any "testing".. it's just not. Just leave it alone, and go with a more suitable networking model that the players will actually ENJOY. If the dev team is trying to convince me to buy the standalone game after already buying ARMA2 (long before ARMA3 was ever mentioned, or a standalone game for that matter) then by perusing this bullshit, they are losing at least one customer I know.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Now, I predict the usual flame post, trolls, and whatever. I won't reply to you assholes... you know who you are (and sadly I do too, after a mere week in this place).

Anything I have missed out feel free to add it.

I'm also sure to expect a bunch of "expert opinions" from a bunch of dicks that don't know shit, but ok... I'm open to opinion.

KGO

~Sol

Edited August 3, 2012 by Sol

[Shakakahn 23]

So stop playing.

[Falcrist 119]

So stop playing.

People are already doing this.

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

So stop playing.

I have?

Any other suggestions? I'd love to hear them.

~Sol

[urspider2018@gmail.com 109]

Wait for standalone.

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

Wait for standalone.

This tells me nothing.

Standalone will be plagued with as many if not more problems than now... that's f it even eventuates. This project is likely going to die before we ever see a standalone version if the HIVE situation doesn't change.

I think some of you guys seem to believe that the standalone is going to be like "copy and paste" all of the work Rocket has done so far. It's not. It will be a complete rewrite, from scratch, and with any new content... it will take a LONG TIME.

Stop posting too

Reported for being an asshole

~Sol

Edited August 3, 2012 by Sol

[urspider2018@gmail.com 109]

This is why servers are so easy to hack now.

When the standalone is made Rocket can keep those scripts clamped down, making it much harder to hack into.

So be patient and stop complaining. I'd much rather he works on getting a standalone set up rather than work on stopping hacking in the current mod.

[daze23 549]

"logging out" isn't recorded the same as an alt-f4

[keefehb 17]

I see a lot of issues but no solutions.

So the hive is scrapped, how do you save your weapons, vehicles etc?

I mean technically, in the engine? Explain or suggest it to me.

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

I see a lot of issues but no solutions.

So the hive is scrapped, how do you save your weapons, vehicles etc?

I mean technically, in the engine? Explain or suggest it to me.

The data writes would simply flow to the server IP, instead of the HIVE IP, making data storage local per server.

this would mean your character would be server-bound on private servers.

Never played a multiplayer game before that's NOT an MMO?

~Sol

[evulclown@gmail.com 191]

Reported for being an asshole

~Sol

k

Edited August 3, 2012 by itputsthelotion

[DarkRaven123 602]

Have you tried private hives?

It's a good alternative.

Far less skiddies as well.

Edited August 3, 2012 by DarkRaven123

[Guest]

Do you have any data to support your claim that "enough" of you hate the hive.

The hacker problem is the same as any other game , it only appears worse because the arma engine (which rocket has no control over until a standalone) allows more options.

It's alpha , to complain about the current alt+ f4 and the hive logging system at this stage is just pure nonsense. Obviously a hive supporting 800k+ in one server won't happen overnight , realistically you can expect many servers like it is just now but with higher populations.

All i see here is another butthurt player looking to emulate some kind of EVE online system in a mod which clearly doesn't have the capacity at the moment. Not only do whiney threads like this tarnish the reputation of the mod at such an important stage but it serves no purpose in actually helping it.

p.s ( slightly off topic)

The arma community has a serious problem with stealing other peoples work or assuming that because software is released they can tamper with it how they like. Private hives is not the route i would like the mod to go , use the mod the way it was intended ( connected to the hive) or not at all.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Guest

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

Have you tried private hives?

It's a good alternative.

Far less skiddies as well.

I would if I knew any.

I was considering starting my own... I've done the research into it and I have a system here that can easily cope.

Sure as fuck any skiddies show up and they will be banhammered in 0.2 seconds.

I ran my Minecraft server with an iron fist... we had several griefer attempts which all resulted in them being banned from a prestigious server at the time, and no permanent damage being done.

Do you have any data to support your claim that "enough" of you hate the hive.

The hacker problem is the same as any other game , it only appears worse because the arma engine (which rocket has no control over until a standalone) allows more options.

It's alpha , to complain about the current alt+ f4 and the hive logging system at this stage is just pure nonsense. Obviously a hive supporting 800k+ in one server won't happen overnight , realistically you can expect many servers like it is just now but with higher populations.

All i see here is another butthurt player looking to emulate some kind of EVE online system in a mod which clearly doesn't have the capacity at the moment. Not only do whiney threads like this tarnish the reputation of the mod at such an important stage but it serves no purpose in actually helping it.

Proof? Read the forums lately dude?

Getting rid of the HIVE and going private (or at least having the option to do so!) would reduce if not eliminate the hacker problem.

Hackers cannot exist in private groups (unless your friends are assholes).

Also, I'm not trying to "emulate" anything... Rocket wants the "EVE system" so I think you're slightly confused. I want to opposite.

Also, how am I butthurt? You're just being a sterling example of why I want a private server... a fucking twat asshole.

~Sol

Edited August 3, 2012 by Sol

[Anton17 97]

If you're having problems with the public hives then check out this thread,

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/50870-re-private-hives-and-the-rules-update-from-rocket-inside/

[keefehb 17]

I'm basing my question on the real virtuality engine.

Persistence is something that is relatively new to it, infact other than rockets projects and Arma2PDB I've not seen any other examples of it. I don't think it is as easy as you think it is.

As for me not playing other games? Not quite sure why you felt the need to add a snarky comment.

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

I'm basing my question on the real virtuality engine.

Persistence is something that is relatively new to it, infact other than rockets projects and Arma2PDB I've not seen any other examples of it. I don't think it is as easy as you think it is.

As for me not playing other games? Not quite sure why you felt the need to add a snarky comment.

I have perfect persistence in more than one project.

I don't think it's as difficult as you think it is.

I can't even program very well... I'm the project designer/director and artist for the project I'm working on... world persistence is childs play, and for the most part, easily faked.

*EDIT*

If you are referring to the ARMAII engine specifically, I'm afraid I don't know how it works so I can't comment... but I fail to see why that's even a problem as it has nothing to do with HIVE storage vs. local storage.

If you're having problems with the public hives then check out this thread,

http://dayzmod.com/f...-rocket-inside/

Awesome man, I'll check that out now. Cheers :)

~Sol

Edited August 3, 2012 by Sol

[keefehb 17]

If your talking about projects using Arma 2, running on a dedicated server, I call bullshit.

Unless you want to post a screenshot or video or something? Not that I'm going to lose sleep over it, I'm just interested.

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

If your talking about projects using Arma 2, running on a dedicated server, I call bullshit.

Unless you want to post a screenshot or video or something? Not that I'm going to lose sleep over it, I'm just interested.

I'm talking about my own projects.

Also, I missed your comment about my "snarky comment"... it wasn't intended to be snarky... I was curious since you seemed to have loads of questions related to how most non-MMO style games transfer and store data. If figured you either hadn't played any non-MMO games, or hadn't made the connection between any other game, and how a private server might work.

Also, just read this:

UPDATE FROM ROCKET:"... recommend at the moment to do private servers for the live streams. And that actually brings up a good issue because a lot of people have been asking for the ability to create private servers or separate hives and things like that. And I think that's something we need to seriously think about as well going forward, um... you know I wanted to keep it like it is at the moment to get the message out there, to say: "This is a multiplayer game!", to the people we could use for financing and things like that. If they saw that the idea could be taken as a single-player game then they would have gone for that. So what we've done here is we've, you know the gamers have spoken and said "we wanna see more of this", so... we don't have to worry about that so much. So I think that we can probably come to some solution here and in the short term that would help with the hacking".

Seems like Rocket already knows the HIVE is causing problems... maybe I won't have to quit playing after-all?

~Sol

[Guest]

Proof? Read the forums lately dude?

Getting rid of the HIVE and going private (or at least having the option to do so!) would reduce if not eliminate the hacker problem.

Hackers cannot exist in private groups (unless your friends are assholes).

Also, I'm not trying to "emulate" anything... Rocket wants the "EVE system" so I think you're slightly confused. I want to opposite.

Also, how am I butthurt? You're just being a sterling example of why I want a private server... a fucking twat asshole.

~Sol

You cannot use the forums as a basis , the only posts i see are complaints by children endlessly complaining about some serious hacker problem that apparently exists/lost gear/ getting killed. Those who don't have a problem are mature enough not to make threads.

I have played just under 3 months and i have encountered a genuine hacker ( not the "OMG i died , must have been a hacker" type complaint you see here) just once , but im not sad enough to write up a complaint.

A private hive for every server removes the best thing about dayz. flexibility/The ability to switch between servers to attack different groups. A private hive would completely ruin player interaction which the sensitivity mob seem so obsessed with. Add in some rampant admin abuse and you have a disaster.

I said you were butthurt because you clearly have issues dealing with loss ingame , you have clearly been killed by hackers a few times and think by claiming "everyone" is against the hive that suddenly rocket will suddenly see that it is a bad idea. Then you can your little group of hermits can sit in your cocoon server and play the mod in the way it wasn't intended to be played, small scale , safe and pathetic.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Guest

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

You cannot use the forums as a basis , the only posts i see are complaints by children endlessly complaining about some serious hacker problem that apparently exists/lost gear/ getting killed. Those who don't have a problem are mature enough not to make threads.

I have played just under 3 months and i have encountered a genuine hacker ( not the "OMG i died , must have been a hacker" type complaint you see here) just once , but im not sad enough to write up a complaint.

A private hive for every server removes the best thing about dayz. flexibility/The ability to switch between servers to attack different groups. A private hive would completely ruin player interaction which the sensitivity mob seem so obsessed with. Add in some rampant admin abuse and you have a disaster.

I said you were butthurt because you clearly have issues dealing with loss ingame , you have clearly been killed by hackers a few times and think by claiming "everyone" is against the hive that suddenly rocket will suddenly see that it is a bad idea. Then you can your little group of hermits can sit in your cocoon server and play the mod in the way it wasn't intended to be played, small scale , safe and pathetic.

Hey dickhead, guess you didn't read the post right before that piece of shit you just made eh?

Bet you look like a douchebag now ;)

*EDIT*

Keep pretending you understand my motivation. It destroys any credibility you might have because there is no way known to fuck you can possibly know my thinking pattern, reasoning, or motivation.

~Sol

Edited August 4, 2012 by Sol

[Guest]

i read it but because you wrote it i ignored it , assuming it was rubbish.

All rocket does there is acknowledges there may be issues with a hive and doesn't say there WILL be no hive, its an alpha though and once he has a standalone with proper funding and another anti cheat system it won't matter.

You don't need to sign your name at the end of each post , We can all see it on the left hand side.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Guest

[Virfortis 111]

My advice? Join a passworded server. There are lots of "mini-HIVE" type servers that even have some basic rules and admin rights. It makes the game much more enjoyable for the non-DMer/Hacker. Most of these servers will either have a clan name, or some ID/server name attached to it that will allow for a quick Google search. I don't think this really detracts from DayZ, as it's not related to the main HIVE at all, it simply gives real DayZ players breathing room from that's hurting the open game the most.

Having the option for both means players will choose whether they want flexability, or a decent multiplayer experience. The only people being an ass about it are just crying tears of rage because they'll have less people to shoot.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Virfortis

[Hinaru 96]

Sol,

Why the fa*k are you making such a big thread and write so much down for nothing?

We don't care. It's alpha and as rocket mentioned, it's going to be a standalone. Who cares about the actual HIVE? Get a life and don't care about stuff like this, really! o.O

edit: lol, i ment rocket not rocked. :D

Edited August 4, 2012 by Hinaru

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

i read it but because you wrote it i ignored it , assuming it was rubbish.

Signs of extremely high intelligence and debating skills! Mcdonalds here you come :D

All rocket does there is acknowledges there may be issues with a hive and doesn't say there WILL be no hive, its an alpha though and once he has a standalone with proper funding and another anti cheat system it won't matter.

I never said it wasn't a good idea for the future... it's clearly a fucking massive problem now unless you've been living under a rock for the last several of weeks especially.

You don't need to sign your name at the end of each post , We can all see it on the left hand side.

Cool story bro. You don;t have to come into a thread, not read anything, then post like a troll. We can already see that from your post history.

Sol,

Why the fa*k are you making such a big thread and write so much down for nothing?

We don't care. It's alpha and as rocket mentioned, it's going to be a standalone. Who cares about the actual HIVE? Get a life and don't care about stuff like this, really! o.O

edit: lol, i ment rocket not rocked. :D

It's not for nothing.

If you don't care, then get the fuck out of my thread and stop shitting in it? If you can withstand several more MONTHS of this bullshit happeneing non-fucking stop then bravo to you.... did you want a medal or a chest to pin it on?

~Sol