Probably wouldnt hurt if Rocket communicated a little bit more...

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

Its not supposed to be a working game. And its not supposed to be particularly enjoyable.

Its a proof of concept alpha mod, of a possibly standalone game. 98% of the time, what we play now would never be released, it would be for internal testing. Rocket, released it instead and keeps releasing as he progresses. We are just lucky to play it really. Its a testing phase for him and his team.

Removing the hive, removes the ability to test backend systems that somewhat compares to a tranquility server, which Rocket stated he would think would be cool for DayZ. So if he removed the hive, sure you might be able to play a little better now. But the final release will be much more rocky, because development and testing capabilities were limited due to users complaining about an alpha, thats NOT supposed to be playable at all.

Then why is he so upset in the post about half way down page 1... if the game is supposed to be broken, then what's the fucking point?

Simple, it's not SUPPOSED to be broken at all. It just is, and stubborness is stopping it from having at the very least, a workaround, for the majority of the community. IE Private servers.

I'm about to download the server files now, because I've had enough of being blown up, teleported, and generally made miserable because a few Rocket fanboys think his words are like the Holy Bible, and when he said "it's meant to be broken" they take it literally, and seem to WANT it to remain completely fucked up and un-usable by anyone with half a working brain or more.

Anyone who disagrees, can essentially be thrown in the pile of hackers and trouble makers, since clearly they are the only sort of people that would even consider defending this utter madness.

~Sol

Edited August 3, 2012 by Sol

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

If I was Rocket I wouldn't come near the forums. He makes a simple post about an update and get's hammered by literally thousands of shitty questions about Bandit skins and lost NVG's, There's no way he could keep up if he wanted to.

I'd prefer it if he just locked himself in a room, churned out code and kept us all guessing.

[jordy@sigux.com 44]

Then why is he so upset in the post about half way down page 1... if the game is supposed to be broken, then what's the fucking point?

Simple, it's not SUPPOSED to be broken at all. It just is, and stubborness is stopping it from having at the very least, a workaround, for the majority of the community. IE Private servers.

I'm about to download the server files now, because I've had enough of being blown up, teleported, and generally made miserable because a few Rocket fanboys think his words are like the Holy Bible, and when he said "it's meant to be broken" they take it literally, and seem to WANT it to remain completely fucked up and un-usable by anyone with half a working brain or more.

Anyone who disagrees, can essentially be thrown in the pile of hackers and trouble makers, since clearly they are the only sort of people that would even consider defending this utter madness.

~Sol

You cant even call it a game yet. It's just in the TESTING PHASE, he released it for people to play it, have fun, get annoyed by bugs and then report them, so he could fix that for the final game, or beta.

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

You cant even call it a game yet. It's just in the TESTING PHASE, he released it for people to play it, have fun, get annoyed by bugs and then report them, so he could fix that for the final game, or beta.

So again, why is he so upset, saying how "we" killed it... etc... when the problem could easily be fixed or alleviated by allowing the server content to be made available for anyone to download and use?

He's so protective over this HIVE thing, when it's a waste of fucking time under the current circumstances. It would be like having your heart set on a 2012 Lambo Aventador , when you live in the Australian bush 150km from nowhere and need a troop carrier to traverse the terrain... how long is that Lambo gonna last? Get a fucking troop carrier until you can pave the road, it's not really that hard of a decision to make.

~Sol

Edited August 3, 2012 by Sol

[suspense 210]

So again, why is he so upset, saying how "we" killed it... etc... when the problem could easily be fixed or alleviated by allowing the server content to be made available for anyone to download and use?

He's so protective over this HIVE thing, when it's a waste of fucking time under the current circumstances. It would be like having your heart set on a 2012 Lambo Aventador , when you live in the Australian bush 150km from nowhere and need a troop carrier to traverse the terrain... how long is that Lambo gonna last? Get a fucking troop carrier until you can pave the road, it's not really that hard of a decision to make.

~Sol

He was talking to a group of hackers that went mental one week and completely rendered the mod unplayable. He attempted to fix it, which took more of his time, and it resulted in nothing more then innocents being punished.

You keep saying the hive is useless, yet you are oblivious to what the hive means, what it does, and how it helps rocket and his team in having better understanding on centralized servers that can help them in the future like he already stated. If you are experienced enough to call it useless, why dont you offer your expertise to him and help, instead of sit here and call shit useless...

I already told you, that allowing people to use their own hives reduces input on the hive structure, which is crucial to have a better understand on how to run "MMO" like servers, yet you seem to not care.

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

He was talking to a group of hackers that went mental one week and completely rendered the mod unplayable. He attempted to fix it, which took more of his time, and it resulted in nothing more then innocents being punished.

You keep saying the hive is useless, yet you are oblivious to what the hive means, what it does, and how it helps rocket and his team in having better understanding on centralized servers that can help them in the future like he already stated. If you are experienced enough to call it useless, why dont you offer your expertise to him and help, instead of sit here and call shit useless...

I already told you, that allowing people to use their own hives reduces input on the hive structure, which is crucial to have a better understand on how to run "MMO" like servers, yet you seem to not care.

So case and point, clearly it's not "supposed to be" broken.

Just because I can see it's useless, doesn't mean that he's going to listen. He doesn't know me, or have any form of value of my knowledge, so that's simply not going to happen. He will do what he's going to do and that's that... mistake or otherwise.

The reason I don't care is because you can have this very same game, working perfectly fine in a private server situation... it doesn't have to be MMO to work... look at Minecraft... easily the most successful indie game ever made, played by millions and millions of people HAPPILY on their private servers. I'm suggesting he dumps this shitty waste of space idea, and goes with a more flexible and proven network model. If he REALLY wants to make a central server, do it once the engine isn't so full of holes that every single time I've tried to play in the last 24 hours I get aimbotted, wallhacked, teleported, fist fucked, or turned into a goat.

So let's pretend this MMO thing is even a good idea... I guess that only 50-60 people will be able to play at once since the map isn't big enough to have more than that really, so this "central" HIVE server is a waste of fucking time unless he plans on making a MUCH larger map... like 50x the current size (even if it had "loading" zones).

~Sol

Edited August 3, 2012 by Sol

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

I'd rather he do what he's doing than waste his time in this forum.

[daze23 549]

So again, why is he so upset, saying how "we" killed it... etc... when the problem could easily be fixed or alleviated by allowing the server content to be made available for anyone to download and use?

those posts were on a hacking site

[suspense 210]

So case and point, clearly it's not "supposed to be" broken.

Just because I can see it's useless, doesn't mean that he's going to listen. He doesn't know me, or have any form of value of my knowledge, so that's simply not going to happen. He will do what he's going to do and that's that... mistake or otherwise.

The reason I don't care is because you can have this very same game, working perfectly fine in a private server situation... it doesn't have to be MMO to work... look at Minecraft... easily the most successful indie game ever made, played by millions and millions of people HAPPILY on their private servers. I'm suggesting he dumps this shitty waste of space idea, and goes with a more flexible and proven network model. If he REALLY wants to make a central server, do it once the engine isn't so full of holes that every single time I've tried to play in the last 24 hours I get aimbotted, wallhacked, teleported, fist fucked, or turned into a goat.

So let's pretend this MMO thing is even a good idea... I guess that only 50-60 people will be able to play at once since the map isn't big enough to have more than that really, so this "central" HIVE server is a waste of fucking time unless he plans on making a MUCH larger map... like 50x the current size (even if it had "loading" zones).

~Sol

You just dont get it. The hive helps gathering data on the backend. He said he would love to see a tranquility server model for the standalone game, you know what this means? It means 50-60k people easily on one server at a time. You see why the hives is there now? If you dont, you simply just dont get it.

This is what happens when someone decides to publicly release an alpha model of a possible game, you have hundreds of people that has absolutely ZERO clue of game development, come and dictate how shit should be done. This is why you hire QA teams instead, which is 80% less effective in terms of feedback, and end up releasing a half broken product. Honestly, its disgusting to read what you are saying.

You complain and whine because the "product" dont work how you want it, yet its not even up to you to decide. Its his mod, its his platform to test on, so he can hopefully in the future, release a better standalone product. If he says the core gameplay needs to feel like an MMO(which he did) then who are you to tell him he shouldnt, he wants the game this way, he creates the game this way.

[sausagekingofchicago 4711]

hacking cunts.

Whitelists, here we come!

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

You just dont get it.

I more than "get it". It's a shitty idea to have at this time. It's nothard to grasp what he wants to do, but when the whole fucking internet is against you and tries to make it impossible, why continue?

The hive helps gathering data on the backend. He said he would love to see a tranquility server model for the standalone game, you know what this means? It means 50-60k people easily on one server at a time.

50-60k people on a single server? HAHAHAHAH wow... I don't think YOU get it.

1. The map is WAY TOO SMALL

2. No game has THAT many players at once, there are server instances, in which case my point of private servers would remedy this.

You see why the hives is there now? If you dont, you simply just dont get it.

I see it's there because Rocket thinks it would be "cool", but it's simply not going to work no matter how many "cool points" you want to slap on it.

The game beeds major re-structuring to even work with an idea like this HIVE server.

Stop telling me "I don't get it" when I know exactly what I'm talking about. I'm not an idiot, thanks.

This is what happens when someone decides to publicly release an alpha model of a possible game, you have hundreds of people that has absolutely ZERO clue of game development, come and dictate how shit should be done.

I guess this doesn't include me, since I am a game developer.

This is why you hire QA teams instead, which is 80% less effective in terms of feedback, and end up releasing a half broken product. Honestly, its disgusting to read what you are saying.

It's disgusting why?

I disagree that this HIVE is a good idea for multiple reasons, and you cannot DENY that having a private server available would stop 99% of the community issues right now with hackers and griefers.

You complain and whine because the "product" dont work how you want it,

Really? Where do I complain and whine? Please show me. I simply state facts of affair.

yet its not even up to you to decide.

Absolute fucking hypocrite. Tell me it's not my decision yet you're here telling me how wrong I am. Good job.

Its his mod, its his platform to test on, so he can hopefully in the future, release a better standalone product. If he says the core gameplay needs to feel like an MMO(which he did) then who are you to tell him he shouldnt, he wants the game this way, he creates the game this way.

It will feel like an MMO with a private server that has 25 of my mates playing on it... I still don't follow your logic or your blind obsession with something that countless other players have an issue with.

Whatever man, I'm sure you will just reply with more OH BUT YOU'RE JUST CRAP AND YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND ME!

I don't give a fuck... this game is ultimately my competition, so I have no idea why I'm even saying this shit to try and help... I hope it falls on it's face and leaves more market share for me. There, now I sound lie afuckhead, just like you.

Oh and, I've noticed you tend to make these comments against me regularly... you got some kind of bone to pick, boy?

~Sol

Edited August 3, 2012 by Sol

[zyfer.nyholm@gmail.com 131]

You cant even call it a game yet. It's just in the TESTING PHASE, he released it for people to play it, have fun, get annoyed by bugs and then report them, so he could fix that for the final game, or beta.

he cant fix stuff for a game thats not gonna run on the same engine -.- i am pretty sure dayz wont be on the arma 3 engine but i could be wrong so yeah

[Max Planck 7174]

50-60k people on a single server? HAHAHAHAH wow... I don't think YOU get it.

1. The map is WAY TOO SMALL

2. No game has THAT many players at once, there are server instances, in which case my point of private servers would remedy this.

1. Larger map

2. Eve Online

[suspense 210]

1. Larger map

2. Eve Online

He dont understand, nothing you tell him will make him realise. He believes that DayZ standalone, is actually gonna be on chernarus, arma 2 engine, with 50 players per server.

He is, just not very smart.

[joebandit 23]

I wouldnt be surprised if the mod development was ceased and all efforts put into the standalone very soon.

[daze23 549]

I don't see how private servers will stop hackers in the long-run. either the hackers will get the password, or it'll be locked down so tight the majority of people won't be able to play

"run your own server" is not a realistic solution. it might work for you and a few of your friends, but that's not gonna be enough to support the game in the long run

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

He dont understand, nothing you tell him will make him realise. He believes that DayZ standalone, is actually gonna be on chernarus, arma 2 engine, with 50 players per server.

He is, just not very smart.

- So where has Rocket said anything about maps large enough to cope with that many players?

- Where has Rocket said that's the number of players?

- What about the rest of the players... since 60k players is a few less than the 800k GUIDS currently in circulation?

You do realise how long that shit takes to make right? YEARS and YEARS with dev teams of 100+ people. The APB Reloaded district Waterfront, took 80+ designers 3 years to build... and it's nowhere NEAR the size of Chernarus. It's a heavily detailed but rather tiny part of a city district. I believe you might be under the assumption that there is some kind of "make map" button you can press.

Still think I don't get it, and that I'm stupid? I know more about making games and computer software than you know about the birds and the bees mate.

Unless the standalone game is going to come out in 5 years time, or he has been secretly working on it already for 5 years, there is no fucking way known to man that the map will be much, if any bigger then Chernarus,or htat this HIVE thing is even going to work.

Go ahead, prove me wrong. I'd love to see this.

~Sol

[Oddzball 70]

Suspense, speaking of Dayz, why are you not playing anymore? Like nobody in the clan is playing anymore, its weird.

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

I don't see how private servers will stop hackers in the long-run. either the hackers will get the password, or it'll be locked down so tight the majority of people won't be able to play

"run your own server" is not a realistic solution. it might work for you and a few of your friends, but that's not gonna be enough to support the game in the long run

Works just fine for Minecraft, and Notch and Co. has made over 130 million dollars from it.

Your argument is invalid.

~Sol

[orb917@hotmail.com 117]

You do realise how long that shit takes to make right? YEARS and YEARS with dev teams of 100+ people. The APB Reloaded district Waterfront, took 80+ designers 3 years to build... and it's nowhere NEAR the size of Chernarus. It's a heavily detailed but rather tiny part of a city district. I believe you might be under the assumption that there is some kind of "make map" button you can press.

the tools for map making already exist in the arma toolkit, and i am by no means any sort of expert here, but i did look into it a bit and it takes "several months" to edit terrain, not years and years. from what i saw when looking into it, you can also snag satellite data and import that and then polish it off. would be better if an experienced mapper addressed this but that's the input i can give on this topic.

source: http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Terrain_Editing

edit: below quote says that it takes about an hour to get dayz up and running on what i assume is any arma 2 map:

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/739-dayz-update-154/page__st__80#entry9184

so several months + about an hour.

Edited August 3, 2012 by p1n34l

[daze23 549]

Works just fine for Minecraft, and Notch and Co. has made over 130 million dollars from it.

Your argument is invalid.

~Sol

I really don't know enough about Minecraft to comment on that, but it seems like a different type of game

how does it's success invalidate my argument?

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

I really don't know enough about Minecraft to comment on that, but it seems like a different type of game

how does it's success invalidate my argument?

The fact the game is different doesn't impact on the way the people that play the game can interact.

It doesn't matter if it's multiplayer PONG, Minecraft, DayZ or the latest rubbish from PopCap... the release model is proven, and can work with any game design.

the tools for map making already exist in the arma toolkit, and i am by no means any sort of expert here, but i did look into it a bit and it takes "several months" to edit terrain, not years and years. from what i saw when looking into it, you can also snag satellite data and import that and then polish it off. would be better if an experienced mapper addressed this but that's the input i can give on this topic.

source: http://community.bis...Terrain_Editing

edit: below quote says that it takes about an hour to get dayz up and running on what i assume is any arma 2 map:

http://dayzmod.com/f...t__80#entry9184

so several months + about an hour.

Even with mapping tools... and satellite importing... a map big enough to cope with 50,000 players... hell let's just do even 500 players...

- Currently at 225km^2 with 50 people, you tend to run into one person every 4.5km^2 (so in a straight line, that's one person every 300m)

- For 500 people, we would need effectively 10x the area, or 22,500km^2 to have the same player to terrain density.

- For 50,000, we would need 1000x the area, or an impossible 22,500,000km^2 or roughly 1/4 of the size of the land mass on Earth, again for the same player density.

Now I don't know about you, but in an apocalypse I would expect to only see a handful of people still alive... otherwise it's not really an apocalypse, is it?

I'm sorry but making a map that size is impossible with using instance breakdowns with much lower pop caps (eliminating the usefulness of a HIVE server in the first place), unless you use procedural techniques to generate the world map... which will take months though more likely, years to write something complex enough to make a convincing city or town.

I have written several procedural terrain generation algorithms with my meager programming skills, using L systems and cellular automata... the shit isn't exactly a breeze.

~Sol

Edited August 3, 2012 by Sol

[Oddzball 70]

The fact the game is different doesn't impact on the way the people that play the game can interact.

It doesn't matter if it's multiplayer PONG, Minecraft, DayZ or the latest rubbish from PopCap... the release model is proven, and can work with any game design.

~Sol

You said you were a game developer? For what?

[daze23 549]

The fact the game is different doesn't impact on the way the people that play the game can interact.

It doesn't matter if it's multiplayer PONG, Minecraft, DayZ or the latest rubbish from PopCap... the release model is proven, and can work with any game design.

~Sol

again, I really don't know much about Minecraft, or how it works with servers and shared data

is it an MMO with private servers? are there no public severs?

[Sol (DayZ) 132]

You said you were a game developer? For what?

I am a small independent developer who has a team of 4 guys... we are making a game and have been doing so for the last 7 months.

I have roughly 20 years of experience with game design, and games in general. I have qualifications both in general industry design (artwork, logos, websites, etc etc) and systems management.

Also, this point is really moot... since it shouldn't matter.

again, I really don't know much about Minecraft, or how it works with servers and shared data

is it an MMO with private servers? are there no public severs?

It's a game that anyone can make a server for. You can have as many or few players are you want, and can make it public/private/whitelisted, etc.

It's not much different to how MOST other games work... one person hosts a server, everyone else joins... they have fun playing the game the way they like it without being over-run by a bunch of kids that find it fun to ruin everyone elses (fun).

~Sol