unreasonable murders -> lack of identity

[Sturmgeist 21]

read the post. if you dont read it, dont fucking post a comment. i will not reply to any stupid comments. i hate that i have to write this: i am not against banditry, the features described could add some more reality, and still allowing every players playing style.

TO THE MODS: PLEASE (!!!!!) keep the topics (not only this) clean. i dont really know why this forum is still running, since almost every thread gets raided with comments of people, that did not even read the opening post.

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There are a lot of ideas out there already, to handly the lack of cooperation and the huge amount of unreasonable killings in the game. so far i did not see any idea, that can be really considered.

one thing first: i dont know that much about the mod mechanics etc, so i dont know (actually i dont think) that those changes can be done in the mod, they could be part of the standalone.

in my opinion, the main reason for killings is not the mostly pretended 'survival' but pure boredome and/or immaturity. i think this could be helped, if you give the player's character an identity.

in the moment a player got nothing to do, once he has an advanced gear. this and the fact, that he is totally anonymus in the dayz environment encourages the so called death-match gameplay. in reality one would not murder someone out of pure boredom, especially not in a situation like the one shown in dayz. the consequences of such an act would be psychological and social. the psychological issue is hard to simulate, but the social aspect could be implemented.

thats what i mean by 'give the player an identity':

A---- no total anonymity: this could be achieved by statistics. give every player a statistics page, where life time, zombie killings, murders, murders on unarmed, blood transfusions, and what not are listed. DELETE (open to discussion) this with every death (enables change of playstyle). those statistics could be based on a single server (only one or a group of servers of the players choice, or chosen by the playing time, are recognized by the statistics) or for all servers (note: there will be only ONE statistic, not one for every server you play on). btw: achievments/badges could be implemented here (no silly ones pls, just some more content for the game, to make it playable even in the endphase)

along with this: one game accout, that is traceble, but not necessarily has the ingame name.

B ---- give the players character a memory. the statistic mentioned above (A) could take a lot of the tension out of the game (unwanted), when implemented wrong ingame. thats why the ingame name should not directly lead to the statistics page. BUT: vip players, such as well known medics or bandits, zombiekillers of the year, etc etc, should be somehow recognized. in reality one would recognize a face. in a game this is difficult, but one vip players name could maybe be shown ingame, when approaching his character closely.

My idea is not thought trough completely, i just wanted to write it down before i forget it again, and see, if it is worth thinking about it more. you be the judge of that.

To make it clear. there will always be killings in the game, there is no way around that, and it is good like that. the only thing we CAN do, is to give a option not to kill on sight. this idea shall be one.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Sturmgeist

[Flambo (DayZ) 50]

Identities: good.

Suggested Implementation: meh, could use more work.

Other thoughts: I think this idea is going in the right direction. Would be nice to have identities that can be easily noticed by a player, without needing special mechanics or forum features.

[BrettHarrenton 29]

No this is not DayZ play another game if this is that big of an issue to you.

[XentriX 15]

I'm not sure giving a statistics page would improve anything. It'll probably have the reverse effect to be honest. Players who kill for the fun of it can now more accurately measure their e-peen.

As for recognising the face of people... if you die, you start a fresh 'new' survivor with no knowledge of what has transpired beforehand. Maybe people witnessing another players actions would be able to recognise them again, but not the victims.

[Sturmgeist 21]

No this is not DayZ play another game if this is that big of an issue to you.

why is this not dayz anymore? which part?

I'm not sure giving a statistics page would improve anything. It'll probably have the reverse effect to be honest. Players who kill for the fun of it can now more accurately measure their e-peen.

As for recognising the face of people... if you die, you start a fresh 'new' survivor with no knowledge of what has transpired beforehand. Maybe people witnessing another players actions would be able to recognise them again, but not the victims.

true, but the other direction is possible too. there would be new tasks, or new ways to 'show skill' like zombie hunter, etc.

to your second point: of course, new people dont have anything to remember. but we have to make compromises somewhere, to handle this issue.

btw: im out of the door, but keep it coming, ill read every post later.

[[email protected] 68]

I think this idea focuses too much on how you (or a group of players) feels the game should be played. Personally, I enjoy gearing up and going on the hunt for other players. I still enjoy the survival aspect of the game because it takes time and effort to gear up, and the threat of zombies, starvation, temp, etc. are always a factor.

I think you could create positive and negative incentives like this, but ultimately if I pay $30 for a game to survive long enough to go play some PvP that's what I plan to do. It seems the real dilemma is creating a sandbox game that offers a perfectly balanced scheme of options.

[[email protected] 4]

I like the idea of statistics, but just to see what I've achieved so far.

Maybe with a custom saving option onto your pc, so you can track your progress.

But I don't see how this would reduce unreasonable murders. Maybe even increase them (as XentriX said).

[indominator 95]

well i just think that for every server is not good, players like myself never stay in one server the entire time, not hopping, but also not favorite either, i think that maybe if it could be first identify which are the reasons players kill each other: fear, etc and why players form groups: etc. and then we could see into the future, clan functionality and bases implemented with trade, this trade and bases could be related to survivors and bandits, so survivors do not deal with bandits nor trade, but bandits have factions or clans inside themselves that fight between themselves, survivors could too, but they would fight, i think the ultimate weapon to fight banditry is not trading(the future, as rocket said in the interview) with them or selling for higher prices, but i think that the diference and to identify each other must be a visual cue, like scars, or other clothing.

many ideas mashed up, but for now i would go back for the bandit skin stuff with some variation like a blue attire or even a brown one

[decoman 45]

This thread made me come up with this:

1) Any player doing lots of player killing, becomes anxious and depresssed, leading to penalties in game, with greater and greater severity. "Friendlies" will regret making too many careless murders.

2) Any player with this affliction can rid him-/herself of the effect to acknowledge that he/her is a bandit, and then their character will somehow be stamped by their own choosing and will then be easily identified as bandits in-game.

Obvious consequences:

Friendlies might be tempted to keep friendly "bandits" around, but the easiest would be to simply have they sick it out and stop murdering others.

Bandits will have to figure out a way to relate to other bandits if they want so socialize.

Wanna-be-bandits might try exploiting a low daily kill count to avoid severe physical/mental penalties or from being stamped as a bandit, so daily murder counts should not be allowed, and instead an accumulated murder value should be used instead to determined if they are basicly homocidal.

The choice of becoming a bandit might stick forever if the game is designed that way, so anyone growing tired of being a bandit should perhaps be able to opt out at some point.

I guess, it will be tricky in the beginning, where there is no differentiation between a murderer and someone killing in self defence, but perhaps it will all work out, with friendlies on one side and bandits on the other side.

Edit:

I guess a third group could be useful. It would be alot more complicated because this third type of group has to work with the two others, but perhaps having a "military" group could work.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Treehugger

[indominator 95]

i thought maybe a system that could emulate karma could make both sides different, so that could benefit bandits to what they want, like more action, and to survivors to benefit their other playstyle

[unfair 0]

I wouldn't mind knowing who killed me just so I can add them to my own kill list for later - I don't need to know where they were or what weapon, just a simple name.

I don't see heavy player killing as a problem though. Granted I just started playing a week or two ago, but initially I was only sniping equally well geared players. Then I had a guy run up behind me and start wailing on me with a hatchet. Luckily he sucked, but the point had been made - if you let anyone around you survive they can be an equally valid threat no matter how poorly geared they are.

If you could hear footsteps further away that might be a different story - but currently at a run you have a second at most before the person is on top of you. I took out a guy with an AS50 with a remington shotgun + slugs just by running up behind him quickly - game over.

[frankhertz 2]

I would be happy with the old bandit morphing but with more skins ....

I would probably be a bandit.

[Quaby 93]

I don't really give two shits about what someone thinks about me a thousand miles away after I kill him. I do not see why this would deter me from putting rounds into someone's chest.

[indominator 95]

also, just like quabs said, most of the time, people get killed by bandits without even noticing, also the probability of seeing the same guy a second time is small, and encountering other players now is still a very slim chance in this map

[Sturmgeist 21]

I think this idea focuses too much on how you (or a group of players) feels the game should be played. Personally, I enjoy gearing up and going on the hunt for other players. I still enjoy the survival aspect of the game because it takes time and effort to gear up, and the threat of zombies, starvation, temp, etc. are always a factor.

I think you could create positive and negative incentives like this, but ultimately if I pay $30 for a game to survive long enough to go play some PvP that's what I plan to do. It seems the real dilemma is creating a sandbox game that offers a perfectly balanced scheme of options.

i see your point, and im totally fine with that. the good thing about that system is, that it is not giving a penalty to your stlyle, but it makes the 'stupid' excessive murderers and griefers recognizable to players, that want to join up and cooperate. they still would have to be cautious, since only 'vip' players are recognized, but they are relatively save of the 'freaks'.

This thread made me come up with this:

1) Any player doing lots of player killing, becomes anxious and depresssed, leading to penalties in game, with greater and greater severity. "Friendlies" will regret making too many careless murders.

2) Any player with this affliction can rid him-/herself of the effect to acknowledge that he/her is a bandit, and then their character will somehow be stamped by their own choosing and will then be easily identified as bandits in-game.

problem here is the penalty factor. i dont like that. i also thought of the idea (read of it in the forum) that killers need alcohol to forget their sins^^

well i just think that for every server is not good, players like myself never stay in one server the entire time, not hopping, but also not favorite either

you got me wrong. i thought of a statistic, that is based on your actions one server, a group of servers OR all servers. not a thousand statistics for every server you play on.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Sturmgeist

[Sturmgeist 21]

I don't really give two shits about what someone thinks about me a thousand miles away after I kill him. I do not see why this would deter me from putting rounds into someone's chest.

im sorry, but in that case you would fall in my definition of a 'excessive killer'. ;)

there is nothing we can do about you, and you can be sure, it is not my intention to do anything against your style of playing this game.

but i hope you understand and accept that there are players (that also just want to have a little fun) that do not play like you. those should have some options to be able to protect them selves, since they have no opportunity therefore in the moment. the only protection they have right now, is to change their playstyle to the one they want to avoid - shoot on sight.

this is not directed to you,quaby, i just want to say this: i cant count how often i read this "man the fuck up" argument in this forum, and it shows me how inmature and ignorant people here are. it is an invalid argument as soon as you think about it for half a second.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Sturmgeist

[rubtherob 1]

Need more thinking.

This will lead to lots of immature players e-peen enlargement with the amount of murders they get in their statistics. It can make things even worse at some point.

About the Identity. You cant Identify a sniper killing you from a long distance. (yes I do realize all pros and cons of what I've just said).

Edited August 3, 2012 by RubTheRob

[Sturmgeist 21]

This will lead to lots of immature players e-peen enlargement with the amount of murders they get in their statistics. It can make things even worse at some point.

i dont really think so. statistics are normally just for yourself and in that case would give you some opportunities to kill boredom after gearing up AND giving people a glimpse at your POSSIBLE intentions.

there would be certain groups, where a high kill count is something cool, of course, but it would give others the opportunity to organize against it.

as i said: the most critical point is, that we ALREADY have a bad situation for some players. there are players, that kill for fun. period. there is nothing wrong with that. period. there are lots of people (and dont pretend something else) that would enjoy the game a lot more if there were other ways to play the game. now we need a solution to improve the situation without worsen it for the other party.

the good thing about the mod status of this game is, that people can see how it can be when it will be a standalone. the bad thing about the mod status is, that in the current condition, a lot of people wont buy it, because there is no way for them to play the game like they enjoy it most.. so if you make it enjoyable for everyone, the possibility is higher, that you will have a standalone game in the end.

ps: the 'you cant identify snipers'. of course, thats true. but see it as a compromise. someone could have seen it as a witness, or blabla. its a game after all, that needs some mechanics that make it enjoyable.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Sturmgeist

[bazbake 456]

Wouldn't deleting a player's history upon death mean they actually have no identity and can just change their mind and do whatever they want with no consequences?

[Quaby 93]

im sorry, but in that case you would fall in my definition of a 'excessive killer'. ;)

there is nothing we can do about you, and you can be sure, it is not my intention to do anything against your style of playing this game.

but i hope you understand and accept that there are players (that also just want to have a little fun) that do not play like you. those should have some options to be able to protect them selves, since they have no opportunity therefore in the moment. the only protection they have right now, is to change their playstyle to the one they want to avoid - shoot on sight.

this is not directed to you,quaby, i just want to say this: i cant count how often i read this "man the fuck up" argument in this forum, and it shows me how inmature and ignorant people here are. it is an invalid argument as soon as you think about it for half a second.

Hmm...I give my opinion, which disagrees with yours, and you say I am an immature raging manhunter. I am saying that if I kill you because I want your pack, which is a TOTALLY VIABLE way to play this game, I probably am not going to give a thought that this will boost my kill count and make people more hostile towards me. I didn't kill this person because I am an ass, i killed him because I wanted his gear. I am not going to hug everyone I meet. If it is advantageous to me at the time to end someone's life, so be it. If I wish to eliminate someone due to the risk of him thinking that my pack would look better on his back as opposed to mine, so what? If I feel that I could use a partner, I will take the risk of saying "friendly". My decisions will not be influenced by an abstract number, because frankly, I don't give a fuck. I'm pretty sure I am not the only one. I will decide based on the situations presented to me. I have never had greater than three kills in one life since I prefer to stick to the shadows than unnecessarily end life. What if I am at the NW airfield and I come out of a total bloodbath with four self-defense kills. Does this mean I am a raging warmonger? It has the same problem as the bandit skin-there is no way to tell if the kills were defensive or not. Coupled with the not giving a fuck, I am fairly sure people will still kill.

IDK where you pulled the man up thing from, all I said was that people will probably not care about their kill counts.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Quaby

[fish911503 136]

I love how people always write "if you don't read the whole post don't comment" as the last part of really long posts. YOU SHOULD PUT THAT FIRST!!! Because people who don't read the whole post won't get to that part. Duhhhh.

[liquidcactus 719]

hmmmm...

[CHOSENMARINE 43]

How does killing people result in a loss of identity? If anything, it contributes to a persons identity an character.

[fish911503 136]

I read your post a second time..because it is not very clear.

Questions:

1. You didn't say But i'm assuming these "stat pages" are accessible by other players. So other players could see your stats?

2. You say give players an in game name that would not lead directly to their stat page? What does that mean? Would it lead indirectly to their stat page?

3. You say give them a memory...A memory of what? Of other players names?

4. You say the things listed in A could lesson the tension in the game if not implemented "correctly". What would be the correct way to implement them? And also its not totally clear what things from A you were referring to. Im guessing the list of tracked statistics..but still you were not clear about it in your description.

5. Your intentions seem noble but.....overly complicated.

Edited August 4, 2012 by playZ

[libertine 351]

No this is not DayZ play another game if this is that big of an issue to you.

What the f is up with your photo, are you 4 years old? Edited August 4, 2012 by Thane