Banned from Eu8 for russian language

[jayroe 3]

Rocket, I respect that and especially your decision to leave the thread open for people to discuss. I'm a strong advocate of free speech, even if it serves no other purpose than to be heard. Should you later review this debate, I hope you'll consider the following analogy:

You have three fields at your disposal and 66 players.

22 Players are asking if they can get the first field for soccer.

22 players are asking if they can have the second field for football.

The remaining 22 don't care what they play on the third field.

Designating a field for soccer is discriminatory against football and vice versa, so naturally the open minded thing to do is having a mix of everything on every field. But the truth is there's no intolerance in wanting to play a specific sport or speak a specific language, especially if it's all you know. Allowing people to have a place where they can play a specific sport or speak a specific language, that's actual tolerance.

[beginner 4]

Russians have no etiquette' date=' basically talking in russian while EVERYONE ELSE (no matter if swedish, german, french, polish, spanish) speaks english is insulting by nature.[/quote']

Etiquette? Russia just haven't age rating on games and because of this in mature games playing kids from 7 y.o.

And keep in mind that on russian servers all other nations are not talking on russian at all.

And even if the other nation guys say something in their languages' date=' it's nowhere near as bad as the russians, which literally spam walls of cyrilic text, its just ridiculous, annoying, and makes you feel stupid (like someone talking behind your back or insulting you without even knowing, which actually happened once when some russian dude called every non-russian on the server "european cocksuckers" but had bad luck since some czech guy knew russian and translated it for us).[/quote']

If you see a lot of cyrillic text in chat it doesnt meant that its a spam. Just DayZ have a LOT (a HALF?) of russian players. Thats it.

All in all' date=' speak english or go to your own servers, and if you get a bullet in the head for talking in morse code, then don't even ask why.[/quote']

Another guy telling us where we need to go. Nice job folks. Nothing to say.

[Mojo (DayZ) 66]

I hope you'll consider the following analogy:

You have three fields at your disposal and 66 players.

22 Players are asking if they can get the first field for soccer.

22 players are asking if they can have the second field for football.

The remaining 22 don't care what they play on the third field.

Designating a field for soccer is discriminatory against football and vice versa' date=' so naturally the open minded thing to do is having a mix of everything on every field. But the truth is there's no intolerance in wanting to play a specific sport or speak a specific language, especially if it's all you know. Allowing people to have a place where they can play a specific sport or speak a specific language, that's actual tolerance.

[/quote']

Your analogy literally makes no sense. First, comparing sports to the languages people speak is absurd, since sports are composed of agreed-upon rules that are in no way contingent on the languages people speak. In fact, both language and sports rules (and DayZ rules, for that matter,) represent the same thing: a codified set of commonly-understood paradigms that can be expressed symbolically.

A Brazilian, Portuguese-speaking soccer team can play soccer against an Argentinian, Spanish-speaking soccer team, for example, because they all play soccer using standardized rules, just like any speaker of any language can play DayZ with any other player of any other language, because the rules are standardized.

A more apt example (using a valid analogy) is holding an international Soccer tournament and not restricting it to making the Brazilian players speak Spanish or the Argentinian players speak Portuguese. And, well, that's actually how things work.

[gerryn 2]

This is a role playing game, the servers are named for their location. It is expected to find dutch players in the NL, Swedish players in the SE, and ENGLISH SPEAKING players in the EU, I expect to find Russian speaking individuals on RU-servers - likewise. What the fuck is so difficult to understand about this?

Why would you want to play on a server where the people don't speak your language? This goes BOTH WAYS!

I won't be banning anyone for this on my servers, I have only had to ban on repeated side-channel voip abuse and I dont swing the hammer often - but I WILL be telling people that the language on my servers are Dutch/English - this game is extremely dependent on communication.

/G

[beginner 4]

You have three fields at your disposal and 66 players.

22 Players are asking if they can get the first field for soccer.

22 players are asking if they can have the second field for football.

The remaining 22 don't care what they play on the third field.

Actually this is not right analogy. What should the soccer players do if they spot that their field are peace of sh*t?

[jockbhoy@blueyonder.co.uk 3]

my crazy hippie-commie-feminist arguments aside...

There is no room or scope for us to allow customization of servers. We're going to be creating a standardized server experience.

Maybe there will be in future, but now its just not going to happen. Even the current level of customization of servers is beyond what we will have. So you will have less of this, not more.

I am not racist, I have no truck with people speaking other languages or from another country, but Teamspeak, skype, mumble, are all free, we use teamspeak and everyone including others from other countries use English as its a common language for everyone. For me one of the key aspects of the game is communication, ive been shot loads of time typing are you friendly in english, then you get something else typed back in cyrilic... or another language, by not keeping servers to a specific language all that happens is people shoot on sight and its turning the game into a deathmatch and spoiling it for everyone. Also how do we know someone typing in cyrilic are not saying something racist or malicious if we dont speak russian??, we have a swear filter on our server, but that does not include cyrilic only ascii and in english, so in reality english speaking players are being penalised only. So in order to enforce a no racisist or malicious remarks policy everyone needs to speak the same language...I support you 100% in all you asked for DayZ, but your logic is flawed.

[Rauten 0]

A more apt example (using a valid analogy) is holding an international Soccer tournament and not restricting it to making the Brazilian players speak Spanish or the Argentinian players speak Portuguese. And' date=' well, that's actually how things work.

[/quote']

Your apt example is a mess, is wrong, and you've basically just set yourself up a trap then tripped the wire yourself. Much appreciated.

In an international tournament of soccer, football, or "kick the bloody thing until you score", call it whatever the F you want, if you're playing in the Brazilian team, you automatically know, with a certainty, that your entire team speaks the same language.

The other guys? well, let's go with the Argentinian guys. Sure, you may not understand a word they're saying, but it's not that necessary either. Why? Because due to how football is, you also automatically know, with a certainty, that they are all your enemies, now and until the game ends.

In DayZ however, not only do those rules rarely, if ever, apply, but even if you do manage to determine someone as friendly, he may at any moment turn tail and abandon you, or put a bullet in your head.

TL;DR: No, that's NOT how things actually bloody work.

[beginner 4]

I expect to find Russian speaking individuals on RU-servers - likewise. What the fuck is so difficult to understand about this?

So u think that is on RU-servers players only talk on russian? lol

Why would you want to play on a server where the people don't speak your language?

Why not? I dont get it.

this game is extremely dependent on communication.

Exactly! But why all want to stop communication between Russian players?

[Mojo (DayZ) 66]

A more apt example (using a valid analogy) is holding an international Soccer tournament and not restricting it to making the Brazilian players speak Spanish or the Argentinian players speak Portuguese. And' date=' well, that's actually how things work.

[/quote']

Your apt example is a mess, is wrong, and you've basically just set yourself up a trap then tripped the wire yourself. Much appreciated.

In an international tournament of soccer, football, or "kick the bloody thing until you score", call it whatever the F you want, if you're playing in the Brazilian team, you automatically know, with a certainty, that your entire team speaks the same language.

WOW QUITE THE LOGICAL TRAP YOU SPRUNG ON ME I CAN'T ACTUALLY REFUTE THAT...

...unless, of course, I point out that a DayZ server isn't slotted with people who are all on the same "team" and is, in fact, full competitive PvP.

Whoops, forgot that bit, didn't you?

[Dfekt 1]

Again, to reiterate. Joining the DayZ network you are joining as a clone. Not as a node that can be customized. Our aim is to standardize everything, so that you can get essentially a "McDonalds" experience from all the servers."

I think this example is rather weird.. the server aswell as the Mcdonalds change their ways to better service the customer, McDonalds in the US sells everything twice the size as in Holland. Ordering something there in Dutch would result in the question "could you speak english please?" If i was to refuse i would not have my order. Now this is no racism but the result of my own dumb decicion to refuse to speak english.

This whole discussion is not about racism at all.. its about manners.

[Rauten 0]

WOW QUITE THE LOGICAL TRAP YOU SPRUNG ON ME I CAN'T ACTUALLY REFUTE THAT...

...unless' date=' of course, I point out that a DayZ server isn't slotted with people who are all on the same "team" and is, in fact, full competitive PvP.

Whoops, forgot that bit, didn't you?

[/quote']

Uhm, okay, so you point that DayZ is a completely different kind of "game". And thus, the same rules don't apply.

So...

You're saying I'm right? Because basically, that's what I'm getting.

So, uhm... thanks? I guess.

Also, I did note it in my own post:

"In DayZ however, not only do those rules rarely, if ever, apply, but even if you do manage to determine someone as friendly, he may at any moment turn tail and abandon you, or put a bullet in your head."

[gerryn 2]

>So u think that is on RU-servers players only talk on russian? lol

Not at all, I'm saying I would expect to find Russian speaking people there.

>>Why would you want to play on a server where the people don't speak your language?

>Why not? I dont get it.

Because a MAJOR part in this game is about communicating with other players.

>>this game is extremely dependent on communication.

>Exactly! But why all want to stop communication between Russian players?

What do you mean? How can you communicate in text without understanding each others languages?

/G

[Mojo (DayZ) 66]

Uhm' date=' okay, so you point that DayZ is a completely different kind of "game". And thus, the same rules don't apply.

[/quote']

Nope. Sorry, it's not a completely different kind of "game".

Games are codified set of rules that are universal. Any game.

DayZ. Soccer. Monopoly. Olympic Track & Field. Any person entering into a single governing rule set for a particular game knows all players are playing by the same rules. You don't need the same language as other players to sit down and play Poker at the same table, or to play Rugby. Or any other game. You just need a set of rules all players know and understand. Most conveniently, it actually obviates the need for a common tongue.

Sorry bucko, that point stands. So what you're 'getting'? Yeah, not quite right.

[Dfekt 1]

aint thinking: "ow those guys speak russian.. i dont understand a single word they say but hey i dont care, i just let them be.. i wont party with them anyway" more racist then asking them to speak english to improve the game experience?

[Rauten 0]

Nope. Sorry' date=' it's not a completely different kind of "game".

Games are codified set of rules that are universal. Any game.

...You just need a set of rules all players know and understand. Most conveniently, it actually obviates the need for a common tongue.

[/quote']

Okay, so, when did I say it's not a game? I said it's a different kind, quotation marks merely because football is considered a sport more than a game, specially at Intl. levels.

Also, well, ok, it obviates the need for a common tongue.

Good luck coaching the Brazilian Intl. team without being able to make them understand a word you're saying. Sounds like an interesting adventure.

[beginner 4]

What do you mean? How can you communicate in text without understanding each others languages?

Its not necessary to understand what other players talk. We discuss situation where Russian players communicate in text on some server and got banned for it. I dont know how to call it... racism obviously.

[jockbhoy@blueyonder.co.uk 3]

aint thinking: "ow those guys speak russian.. i dont understand a single word they say but hey i dont care' date=' i just let them be.. i wont party with them anyway" more racist then asking them to speak english to improve the game experience?

[/quote']

Well since there is a no racist remarks policy, which is expected to be enforced as per DayZ rules... how can it be enforced if someone types something racist in cyrilic?? or another language you don't understand if you are the admin??...ok the "N" word and swear words are universal, but theres plenty of ways to be racist if you are that way inclined...if you type fuck in english everyone knows what your typing, but if you swear or say something racist in cyrilic...no one knows what you are saying except others using a cyrilic keyboard or who understand that language.

---

Its Admirable by Rocket to enforce a No Racism or Malicious Remark policy, but in order for that to be enforced the Admin needs to know what is being said!!!! ..use a bit of common sense please Rocket.

[Mojo (DayZ) 66]

Good luck coaching the Brazilian Intl. team without being able to make them understand a word you're saying. Sounds like an interesting adventure.

Yeah coaches are part of the team' date=' aren't they? So they form teams around commonalities without feeling the need to restrict inter-team competition to those same commonalities. I mean they can feel free to make a team entirely of people who can't understand each other. That's a thing they can do. They'll probably really fucking suck, but they can do it.

Just like all players, regardless of language, can play DayZ according to a unified rule set, and they can form their teams around commonalities (Clan, language, location), or they can just spend the entire game trying to figure out what the other one is saying. And all without trying to put artificial limits on what languages each team must speak before heading up against the other.

Huh, fancy that.

[hr']

Well since there is a no racist remarks policy' date=' which is expected to be enforced as per DayZ rules... how can it be enforced if someone types something racist in cyrilic?? or another language you don't understand if you are the admin??

[/quote']

And so if no one knows what you are saying, the intended target of it probably cannot take offense.

You want to talk common sense? Ok, here's common sense.

Common sense says that the no racism/abuse policy is not there to morally reform the world, it is there to protect the players who would be targets of those remarks. If those targets cannot parse the remarks into meaningful information, they cannot be subjected to intended offense. And therefore do not need intervention to protect against it.

That is common sense.

[jockbhoy@blueyonder.co.uk 3]

And so if no one knows what you are saying, the intended target of it probably cannot take offense.

You want to talk common sense? Ok, here's common sense.

Common sense says that the no racism/abuse policy is not there to morally reform the world, it is there to protect the players who would be targets of those remarks. If those targets cannot parse the remarks into meaningful information, they cannot be subjected to intended offense. And therefore do not need intervention to protect against it.

That is common sense.

OK...and so its fine for someone to insult you and be racist to you in their language so long as you dont understand it....?? thats probably the dumbest thing ive read on this post ... but if you use english or a non cyrilic keyboard you are punished for saying something racist because everyone understands it because English is used on a lot of servers.... that is RACIST

[Rauten 0]

Yeah coaches are part of the team' date=' aren't they? So they form teams around commonalities without feeling the need to restrict inter-team competition to those same commonalities. I mean they can feel free to make a team entirely of people who can't understand each other. That's a thing they can do. They'll probably really fucking suck, but they can do it.

[/quote']

They can do and they do it. Know Real Madrid and Barcelona/Barsa? They're some of the most "international" teams in the world, as in, they hire players from anywhere in the world.

Know what they do when they can't communicate properly with their players, because they speak like 7 different languages? They hire translators. And mid game? They use Body Language. Which is almost completely missing from ArmA2, other than the salute or the "friendly shake".

So yeah, teams with all sorts of players happen. And then they seek ways to keep communication open.

[SRTie4k 1]

Is there no way to put a language filter in place on all servers? Seems to me that doing so and using a universal obscene language dictionary would solve most of the problems listed in this thread (save for potential talk of hacking).

[Mojo (DayZ) 66]

OK...and so its fine for someone to insult you and be racist to you in their language so long as you dont understand it....?? thats probably the dumbest thing ive read on this post ... but if you use english or a non cyrilic keyboard you are punished for saying something racist because everyone understands it because English is used on a lot of servers.... that is RACIST

If somebody insults me in a language I can't speak' date=' I can't be insulted, can I? Try as they might, the insult will never get through to me. No need to solve a problem that doesn't exist, is there?

They can do and they do it. Know Real Madrid and Barcelona/Barsa? They're some of the most "international" teams in the world, as in, they hire players from anywhere in the world.

Know what they do when they can't communicate properly with their players, because they speak like 7 different languages? They hire translators. And mid game? They use Body Language. Which is almost completely missing from ArmA2, other than the salute or the "friendly shake".

Yeah, so? Players who want to group up with internationals can use the salute or friendly shake. Or they can hire translators.

Look, you want to compare this to a sport, so here's how it works. There's a governing body, like FIFA or the DayZ DevTeam. Then there's the individual matches, which are the servers. And then there's the teams, which are the players.

Now, the players want to do things how they want to do them, that's fine. You want to only group up with people who speak English? Great, do that. Want to hire a translator to sit on TeamSpeak with you so you can roll with some internationals? Cool, go fucking nuts.

But what you can't do is say that particular matches are outside the purview of the governing body. Sorry, that shit doesn't fly.

[jockbhoy@blueyonder.co.uk 3]

If somebody insults me in a language I can't speak, I can't be insulted, can I? Try as they might, the insult will never get through to me. No need to solve a problem that doesn't exist, is there?

You are missing the whole point.... if you are being racist to someone then your being racist....just because YOU dont understand it doesnt mean others dont and are not offended by it, the rules are no racist comments....not no racist comments in english. its the comment thats racist not who its aimed at....if you speak racist comments in any language its racist, because YOU dont understand it doesnt mean others are not being offended by it

[Mojo (DayZ) 66]

You are missing the whole point.... if you are being racist to someone then your being racist....

I think you're the one missing the point here, skippy. As I've explained to you several times now, rocket isn't trying to turn DayZ into the world morality thoughtpolice trying to cure racist thoughts with server bans, he's trying to prevent players from being insulted or abused by other players.

Maybe we should require all players to have open mics that are constantly broadcasting on side chat so if they scream racial slurs at their monitor during a temper tantrum, we can ban them for that too.

After all, just because nobody would hear them if their mics weren't open and broadcasting doesn't mean they aren't being racist, right? I mean, they're still saying racist things in a way that nobody can understand, but COULD understand if they had open mics, and we absolutely must catch that behaviour, because it's not a matter of protecting players from abuse, it's a matter of thoughtpolicing racist scum.

[jockbhoy@blueyonder.co.uk 3]

I think you're the one missing the point here, skippy. As I've explained to you several times now, rocket isn't trying to turn DayZ into the world morality thoughtpolice trying to cure racist thoughts with server bans, he's trying to prevent players from being insulted or abused by other players.

Maybe we should require all players to have open mics that are constantly broadcasting on side chat so if they scream racial slurs at their monitor during a temper tantrum, we can ban them for that too.

After all, just because nobody would hear them if their mics weren't open and broadcasting doesn't mean they aren't being racist, right? I mean, they're still saying racist things in a way that nobody can understand, but COULD understand if they had open mics, and we absolutely must catch that behaviour, because it's not a matter of protecting players from abuse, it's a matter of thoughtpolicing racist scum.

Dont be stupid...and stop moving the goal posts.... Rocket said no Racist or malicious comments, everyone made a big issue out of you cant kick someone for a clan member or reserve slots because it was "THE RULES" ...i just think you are trolling now, because you keep changing you point.... its simple...if we all have to obey the rules that Rocket set, then we obey the rules...just because YOU dont seem to think that its not racist if YOU dont understand someone racially abusing someone else or someone types it in a different language you dont understand, then its ok..its not, especially if you are an admin....racism, and bigotry is not ok....in any shape or form whether that be typed, spoken or put up in a 30 foot banner in the middle of Red Square...its racism, and the rules are no racism...if i, as an admin dont know that someone is typing racist comments in cyrilic that doesnt mean its ok for them to abuse someone else... I dont see whats so hard to understand and you can always disbale voip anyway on the server so your point about someone screaming racist comments in the mic is null....its about typing racist comments in cyrilic that dont get picked up by filters. But anyway i am done replying to you as you are either just trolling or trying to be a clever dick debating small points...racism is racism. end of.