Why this mod is failing

[septuscap 42]

No one tries to help others, and avoids all contacts with others, because 4 out of every 5 people play the game as a bandit and will kill you. If not for your loot, then just to be a cunt.

First off, there is a lot to do in the way of PvP, from stalking players and having them lead you back to their camp, to defending your own; fighting over territory, vehicles, and loot. There is a huge "game of thrones" being played in that regard on many servers, usually until the losing side breaks and changes servers. It's pretty fucking exciting.

But you're right, as a PvE player, there's nothing to do once you're kitted out. You can't make a player city, or secure one of the actual cities from zombies and "take it back," or craft in-game items (with perma-death, you'd get a lot of players skilling up just one skill and trading their product with others), etc. But I think rocket is working on those facets as we speak (starting with base building), so your argument is really moot in that regard. Obviously the game's still in development.

Regarding "friendly" play, it's your fault. You're too stupid to figure out how to approach a stranger, simply put. You've probably never even had overwatch as you wander through a city like an idiot. But you're right, you can't just wander up to some random with a gun and go "HI THERE IM FRIENDLY, U?"

[Cooperal 16]

Would've read a good long read except... starting your thread with a false statement, told as fact is a giant red flag.

In your opinion the mod is failing. On the otherhand, it's only every once in a while that a mod makes as many ripples with gaming news as DayZ has, let alone gain recognition from the vanilla games developers. Figures hitting over 800,000 unique players. Therfore it is my opinion that DayZ is not failing.

In otherwords, too long, didn't read. Bullet points would've been nice.

[griffinz 2816]

PVP will remain, forever. All the complaints in the world won't change that.

Edited July 31, 2012 by Griff

[cyanyde 165]

The mod isn't failing. People are failing to play the mod properly. ;)

[internetTAB (DayZ) 76]

you fucking bandits. Killing a bandit doesn't stop their banditry. So just please stop with the "survivors aren't winning because qq" BS.

They cannot win.

Edited July 31, 2012 by internetTAB

[Sloi 6]

The mod isn't failing. People are failing to play the mod properly. ;)

There's no right or wrong way to play the mod, since it doesn't have a hardcoded goal built in... but being a bandit or simply shooting first and asking questions later will help with overall survival.

That doesn't change the fact that the DayZ universe is largely inhabited by assholes and trolls.

[MR DELICIOUS 297]

The thread older than time itself. It has been said since day one equally that this mod is dying and that bandits are ruining it.

This entire concept is new. Nobody has been in this territory before, so it's rough. The front end of the survival aspects have been built. We're in the nicely populated first movie of a multipart zombie apocalypse trilogy. Now, like films like 28 days/weeks the developers have to work out actionable ways players can begin to create within the game. This can only be sorted out once engine capabilities are understood and innovated.

Obviously there's also the question of what's possible and what isn't. Suggesting anti bandit unnatural in game mechanic nerfs are never going to take flight. Like always, it's going to be a question of building and adding, not being tempted to play the OCD stat balancing game seen elsewhere.

[Charlizard 18]

You all keep parotting that number. DayZ doesn't have a million players. It has a million different ID's that have connected to it, at LEAST ONCE. The actual number of players daily is closer to 50,000.

Did you know that 95% of statistics and numbers are pulled out of someones ass?

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, isn't 50,000 players daily good for a mod?

[septuscap 42]

You all keep parotting that number. DayZ doesn't have a million players. It has a million different ID's that have connected to it, at LEAST ONCE. The actual number of players daily is closer to 50,000.

Actually the players in the last 24h is ~200k. Whether that's the same 200k playing every day, or different portions of the ~1million "unique ID's" playing every so often, who knows.

Sure, that's respectable. But the numbers game isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about what the gameplay has degenerated into. There's nothing to do once you get that loot. You just go shoot the noobs. And make the noobs more likely to do the same thing once they get the good loot. They become bandits. Ergo. Game is bandits, bandits, bandits.

I think rocket is adding the first real step forward for social players in base building. You can set up a legitimate defense that bandits can't ghost behind, and use it as a safe ground for friendlies to meet up, socialize, pick up groups, etc.

As for bandits bandits bandits, most people I kill AREN'T bandits, I get very few bandit kills (and this is up north). Even when I was on the coast, most kills weren't bandits except for the occasional sniper in cherno that actually gave me a bandit kill.

It is true though that most non-bandits AVOID other players, as opposed to be sociable, because it's not worth the risk. Player cities and the like will probably give them that outlet.

[septuscap 42]

you fucking bandits. Killing a bandit doesn't stop their banditry. So just please stop with the "survivors aren't winning because qq" BS.

They cannot win.

Of course it doesn't stop their banditry. But you won the encounter. If you don't like that bandits are coming for you, then this just isn't the game for you, PERIOD.

[L0G!N (DayZ) 149]

I do NOT agree, and this mod is not failing ... what is happening is that there is content lacking that is being stalled by people wanting minor issues to be fixed first ... minor things like: server hoppers, hackers, unlimited ammo, respawners ( <- though that one may have been helpfull in data collection as well), exploiters, dupers, gfx glitches, bugs etc and so on ... if it doesn't crash the game it's not an alpha bug!

Once more content gets added, or the game truely experimented with (f/e cutting down on the large amount of inventory people have), more spawning items so loottables are pressured for items people want, and items they need to be pushed to the edge) so that people are presured to work together, the game will change, and bandit should be kept in mind trough most of it, because they add a lot to the game!

Edited July 31, 2012 by L0GIN

[cyanyde 165]

There's no right or wrong way to play the mod, since it doesn't have a hardcoded goal built in... but being a bandit or simply shooting first and asking questions later will help with overall survival.

That doesn't change the fact that the DayZ universe is largely inhabited by assholes and trolls.

Yeah I totally agree.. actually that was a simple attempt at some "intelligent trolling" ;)

The cool thing about this mod is that one may choose to play it however they want.

That said, what I meant by what I said was that instead of testing an alpha build of a potential framework for a standalone game, some people play it as if it was already the standalone game that we all want to play.

I'm pretty sick of people complaining that "this mod is dying" when it hasn't even really started to "live" yet.

Cool thing is, I don't think Rocket really cares about how big the player base is, because he knows that no matter what he does to make the mod more difficult to survive in, or how hard he makes it for new players to get involved with, or even how hard it is to install, he knows that he will still have a highly passionate and dedicated group of players who *do* understand how it's meant to be *tested*, and will provide him with the feedback he needs to properly improve the basis that he has.

The thing is, the players who quit now are the ones that we really don't need quite yet anyway. The only major mistake that Rocket has made so far was to give it such a cool and catchy name. Some of the people who try it now and hate it because it's not finished, will avoid it like the plague when it's finally been released as a retail game, because they played it before it was really meant to be played in the way that they want to play it.

Edited July 31, 2012 by Cyanyde

[j_riddell@live.com 32]

so that people are presured to work together

Pressuring people to work together is as bad as removing bandits.

This mod will never have a feature that forces or pressures people to play a certain way. The fact that it doesn't is why the majority of current players love the mod, and to change that formula risks loosing way more players than you lose by not giving in to the demands of people who don't like bandits.

[Bombadil 16]

We're finding something better to do: http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/3910-need-medical-assistance-we-can-help/page__st__3720#entry508054

[zyromkiru 1]

Not knowing who is good nor bad makes this game intense and fun and when you see someone you think to yourself "Imma blow his fucking brains out if he tries anything!" and you have your hand on the trigger or buttons ready to take fire if necessary.

What kills this game:

Spawning and being shot by some fuck head that is spawn killing

or

by being chased by a bunch of zombies (it's not your fault they see you through walls 200 feet away) and someone shoots you at that time

The second problem has been fixed i believe. I haven't been on due to internet down time but spawn killers need to go play another shooting game.

Edit: btw this mod isn't really dying considering i saw this game being the #1 sold game during the summer sale on steam and I know they all bought it for dayz... (dunno how long it was #1 but it was at some point i know that)

Edited July 31, 2012 by Zyromkiru

[hgilbert@iswest.com 5]

things to do other than kill players you say?

http://dayzmod.com/f...ce-we-can-help/

http://dayzmod.com/f...eeside +trading

http://dayzmod.com/f...e__hl__freeside

and they don't want realism and have explicitly stated that, they want authenticity.

OK, color me stupid, but what exactly does authenticity mean in this instance?

Is it:

"Authenticity is a technical term used in psychology as well as existentialist philosophy and aesthetics. In existentialism, authenticity is the degree to which one is true to one's own personality, spirit, or character, despite external pressures; the consciousself is seen as coming to terms with being in a material world and with encountering external forces, pressures and influences which are very different from, and other than, itself. A lack of authenticity is considered in existentialism to be bad faith."

Edited July 31, 2012 by Schmoopie

[Cummins 15]

Hey I've been keeping busy hoarding steak and water bottles. There IS something to do other than kill 'noobs'. Well... I did kill a rather unlucky fella today but only because he was getting too close to my steaks. I'm friendly most of the time, as long as you aren't sneaking around my camp trying to take my steak.

[Cummins 15]

Steak.

[grizzle 21]

The "game" is failing because it isn't a game no matter how many people call it one. The attempt to make it a game is failing because the people that made the mod never intended it to be a "game" and now have no idea (or don't have the ability, or both) how to make it a game (i.e., with replayabiity, long term goals to keep people interested, a way to fix all the game-breaking bugs and hacks, etc...).

Bullshit. It's a game. I don't care what rocket says about it. It's still a game.

Hey... I know... let's create an "experimental anti-game" where we throw a bunch of people on the same server, give them guns and food and tell them to survive with no rules... NO RULES MAN!!!. Wouldn't that be cool? It'll all be about emotions and fear and shit. It will be so unpredictable man, unlike anything anyone has ever seen.

Lo and behold we have a very large world death match that pretty much plays like any other FPS out there except it's a lot slower. Wow. Who would have guessed that?

For crying out loud all you have to do is load up ARMA2 without DayZ and play with a group of people with no rules. BAM! you have the same exact thing as the "anti-game" that rocket tried to create.

It's nothing new but it sure sounded cool to a lot of people who can't see it for what it really is.

DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE.

[cyanyde 165]

water bottles

[Charlizard 18]

Bullshit. It's a game. I don't care what rocket says about it. It's still a game.

Hey... I know... let's create an "experimental anti-game" where we throw a bunch of people on the same server, give them guns and food and tell them to survive with no rules... NO RULES MAN!!!. Wouldn't that be cool? It'll all be about emotions and fear and shit. It will be so unpredictable man, unlike anything anyone has ever seen.

Lo and behold we have a very large world death match that pretty much plays like any other FPS out there except it's a lot slower. Wow. Who would have guessed that?

For crying out loud all you have to do is load up ARMA2 without DayZ and play with a group of people with no rules. BAM! you have the same exact thing as the "anti-game" that rocket tried to create.

It's nothing new but it sure sounded cool to a lot of people who can't see it for what it really is.

DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE.

I like it.

It hasn't been deathmatch central for me. Hell, when I play deathmatch games I sometimes group up with members of the other team for some shenanigans.

Edited July 31, 2012 by Charlizard

[`Orum 17]

When someone starts a thread with "Don't QQ about me QQing," you know it's going to be good.

On a side note, I love the banditry in the game. Just today I was in a group of five when two other members in my group decided to kill the other two. The other two raged over side chat (thankfully some servers still have that) and gave our position to other bandits who promptly mowed us down. All of it was fun though.

p.s. - If you really want to play a game with lots of player killing, go play L4D or L4D2 on expert.

Edited July 31, 2012 by `Orum

[Xianyu 820]

I like DayZ. I'm not going to stop playing it. I will make threads here every now and again and watch you all blindly defend this mod with 'It's an ALPHA!' or 'QQ more!' because I find it amusing.

But the point I'm trying to make is:

1. After you know how to get your loot, there is little to do.

2. You've already been killed by bandits

3. There are no penalties to being a murderer.

Bandits will always be a part of the game. There will always be someone who kills someone else for their beans rather than gets it themselves. These people will never leave this game, and I wouldn't want them to.

But riddle me this: when was the last time you actually sought to team up with someone on a server? When was the last time you trusted someone enough to even allow them within range of direct chat? And have these instances DECREASED, or INCREASED the more you play the game?

The current modelling of DayZ pushes you towards banditry. The current community qithout question pushes you towards banditry.

I mean, fuck, after being on the forums for a little while, I want to kill people in Cherno myself just on the off chance that one of them is a snot-nosed little prick who posts these retarded bullshit things on the forums.

I haven't been killed by a bandit for ages. I am currently on a character that has the largest backpack available, a FAL, plenty of ammo, food, water, NVG's, the lot. I don't die to bandits.

But I still see bandits murderers as a problem. And I can see WHY they exist in the first place. Because there is no end mid-game content beyond looting and this game is so HARD already that they get a kick out of killing noobs for no reason. If you believe, in your heart, that this mod is about zombie survival, then please, by all means, set up a stream. Give me the link. And go wandering through cherno on a populated server. I'll get some good laughs.

People resort to murdering in this game for fun. Not for food. Not for survival. Just for fun. And after the noobs die to random snipers more than once, or get backstabbed by someone who's just doing it be a cunt, they stop being survivors. They become bandits. There basically aren't any survivors any more. It's bandit HQ, Chernarus. The only survivors left are the ones too naive and new to realise the grim fact that 90% of all players will kill them on sight. And a good 60% of those KOS wouldn't be because 'I'm protecting myself'. It's because 'hey, another player! KILL IT!'

The real reason the bandits are winning is because everyone who plays this game, as a product of the game itself, and the community, becomes a bandit. Like someone in this very thread tried to tell me 'If you can't beat em, join em'. And that's what everyone does.

Maybe I titled the thread wrong. But that's how I see it. I see DayZ as failing. Maybe not in sales figures, but as a game. Sure, scream 'IT'S A MOD AND AN ALPHA!' all you bloody want. But one truth remains. Even if you've broken your leg, have no weapon, and pose no threat, the average player will STILL shoot you.

Until that changes, then DayZ has problems. That isn't killing for protection, or survival. That's killing another player just for 'fun'. And it degenerates the game into deathmatch with zombies, when it could be so much more.

This person didn't think 'hey, I could patch this guy up and he could help me!' that thought didn't cross his mind. Why? Because the community in this game are assholes, through and through. Give a gun to a new guy, and he's as likely to shoot you with it as he is to thank you humbly. This is a product of the already jaded, asshole community, and the fact that mid game content of his mod involves shooting other players.

[Zexis 127]

Bandits are essential for the game to be exciting. BUT. I do think Rocket, once the buggies have been beaten down, needs to look at more "end-game" content. Because, as you said, what more is there to do once you have a .50 cal and a Ghillie? Sure, you can help people, but help them with what? Get more loot? What about once they're geared up?

And frankly, my biggest adrenaline rushes come from the firefights, especially when I have decent gear (or at least it used to be that way, before I decided I didn't care). That's OK, but there should be more of an incentive to NOT just wanton gun down every non-zed in sight.

And as to what that incentive could be? I don't know. But I hope Rocket gets an idea sooner or later, because the current game mechanics just aren't *quite* solid enough yet for this mod to achieve its fullest potential.

Edited July 31, 2012 by Zexis

[septuscap 42]

Lo and behold we have a very large world death match that pretty much plays like any other FPS out there except it's a lot slower. Wow. Who would have guessed that?

If that's your experience, you're a scrub, plain and simple. If you're playing this more like an MMO, your main concerns should be who is locking down which parts of the map, what any player you spot is doing, where he might lead you, finding a niche for yourself on your given server, etc.