The PvP Discussion Thread

[Cootter 4]

Dear Rocket

Is this it? The great dickhead bandit rampage ARMA2 MOD? PLEASE for fucks sake, just say so. That way SOME of us can just MOVE ALONG.

[The Killing Joke 43]

Dear Rocket

Is this it? The great dickhead bandit rampage ARMA2 MOD? PLEASE for fucks sake' date=' just say so. That way SOME of us can just MOVE ALONG.[/quote']

Dear Mikkal. Yes' date=' this is all. Now, kindly fuck off if you're going to.[/quote']

[Cootter 4]

Dear The Kiling Joke

You'll notice I addressed this note, to one of the dickheads.

:)

[The Killing Joke 43]

You'll notice I addressed this note' date=' to one of the dickheads.[/quote']

Well, then! My mistake, good sir.

*SMOKE BOMB!!!*

[callousdisregard 2]

Dear The Kiling Joke

You'll notice I addressed this note' date=' to one of the dickheads.

:)

[/quote']

http://dollardays.com/wholesale-facial-tissue.html

[Erik (DayZ) 61]

I wouldn't know what I'd think of this mod if it didn't have PVP. Simply only killing zombies is not enough for me. PVP fits in this game perfectly.

[phienyx 14]

I do not think that anyone is advocating the REMOVAL of PvP, but the focus of PvP.

[dedbodiez 0]

Don't want to get blasted in the face? Get on Teamspeak/Vent/Mumble.

I played more or less solo or only with Steam / In-Game chatting. I got nowhere.

Now I play solo rarely and normally find myself on TeamSpeak in, at the very least, a group of 2, but often 4 or more

Everything about the zombie apocalypse is more fun with friends, including PvP

What does this have to do with PvP overall?

I wouldn't call myself a bandit, but if I see you, and you arn't in my group, I will kill you. Does that make me a bandit then? I suppose. But all you gotta do is join the teamspeak server I'm on and hey hey, you are instantly my new best friend.

[jajunior 1]

Don't want to get blasted in the face? Get on Teamspeak/Vent/Mumble.

I played more or less solo or only with Steam / In-Game chatting. I got nowhere.

Now I play solo rarely and normally find myself on TeamSpeak in' date=' at the very least, a group of 2, but often 4 or more

Everything about the zombie apocalypse is more fun with friends, including PvP

What does this have to do with PvP overall?

I wouldn't call myself a bandit, but if I see you, and you arn't in my group, I will kill you. Does that make me a bandit then? I suppose. But all you gotta do is join the teamspeak server I'm on and hey hey, you are instantly my new best friend.

[/quote']

Sure, world is collapsing, there are zombies everywhere, resources are running out but... hey, let's kill somebody else without questions.

Makes a lot of sense.

[Jex =TE= (DayZ) 218]

I started playing DayZ and hated bandits, now I still hate them but without them, the game wouldn't be as much fun.

That being said, the last 5 or 6 guys I have ran into (Which I had more than ample opprtunity to kill first) have shot me dead (even pretending to be friendly then shooting me in the back).

Is this what this game is becoming? Because it's turning into DM with zombie added for inconvenience.

So now I'm left with, instead of trying to talk or work with people to simply just kill them outright if I see them close by me and thus becoming part of the problem. At least with the bandit skins we all knew where we stood (and before people start going on how unrealistic that is, the game is unrealistic ok - granted the most realistic of the unrealistic games out there but still, when U can't even lower ur pistol, or even holster it (Add that in, it works in Takistani Life - EDIT: Can u still crouch without a gun, could never do it in arma 1) then that is just dumb. Also in RL you can tell a persons demeanor, in fact there are so many indicators in RL to tell what character a person is the bandit skin compensated for that.

It's retarded, people are not going to just walk around a corner and blow ur head off - ADD IN some custom animations maybe and the ability to lower a weapon or holster it?

[reuben5150 83]

Is this what this game is becoming? Because it's turning into DM with zombie added for inconvenience.

Yup, its gone from great to shit in a few weeks.

[The Killing Joke 43]

Yup' date=' its gone from great to shit in a few weeks.[/quote']

The Killing Joke: Knock, knock!

Mutagen_7B4: Who's there?

The Killing Joke: Yorra!

Mutagen_7B4: Yorra who?

The Killing Joke: Yorra moron.

Seriously. I have run out of ways to tell you people that if it's turning into Deathmatch that's because you play like a Deathmatch. I'm not seeing it, and neither are many others here. So, if you need more proof, read the "It's Your Fault" link in my sig.

Geez. What the fuck next? Do I need to do shadow puppets? Interpretive Dance?!

[reuben5150 83]

Seriously. I have run out of ways to tell you people that if it's turning into Deathmatch that's because you play like a Deathmatch

Still dont get it do you.

I read your bandit skin defence thread, what a pile of shit just like this pile of shit mod.

Oh hey everyone ! don't play dayz like a DM cause this guy on the forum says not to, really its ok, nothing to do with the fucked up game mechanics at all.

[The Killing Joke 43]

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah

[reuben5150 83]

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah

I think you've proved who the retard is boy.

[The Killing Joke 43]

I think you've proved who the retard is boy.

Who are you calling boy, son?

[dystopeon 46]

I play solo (because I'm not scared/don't care). having 2 characters (2 copies) is the only true meta-gaming 'counter' to the circle-jerk vent guys. I play this game like Hidden & Dangerous, because I am :) please don't remove/nerf this somehow.

[reuben5150 83]

I think you've proved who the retard is boy.

Who are you calling boy' date=' son?

[/quote']

I'm glad you have the time to waste your breath on these posts, i expect you'll be a great influence on the final game, can't wait to see dayz sitting there on the shelf in PC world.

LOLOL fucking right.

[catgut 3]

Seriously. I have run out of ways to tell you people that if it's turning into Deathmatch that's because you play like a Deathmatch.

What alternative do you suggest? Because since the update I've yet to run into anyone who didn't shoot first.

Right now there is very little to be gained by cooperation, a lot to be gained by killing and looting, and a lot to be lost by getting shot first instead. Trusting people you don't know is taking a huge risk for minimal reward. The problem isn't solely player attitude, it's game mechanics that directly reward deathmatch behavior to an unrealistic degree and make cooperation pointless. The only way deathmatching will stop is if the game mechanics provide a reason to think having another person along is just as valuable as killing them and taking their stuff.

[The Killing Joke 43]

The problem isn't solely player attitude' date=' it's game mechanics that directly reward deathmatch behavior to an unrealistic degree and make cooperation pointless.[/quote']

Really? You think a single player has any real advantage over a co-operative team? There's no reward, here, certainly. If you shoot first, you are severely hampering your abilities. I don't know of a single lone wolf player that doesn't agree. Some just choose to play that way.

The key, here, is adaptation.

All players need to adapt to the game/mod. Always getting shot in the face is definitely not fun. What happened when it happened to me? Well, I don't play with anyone I don't know. I now know to be sneaky, be cautious, and to avoid other players.

People like to say, "Well, you shouldn't be forced to play that way." Well, you're not forced to play that way. Make friends. Join others. FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO IT. It is not impossible. (Key point: I've been shot in the face by teams than more than just single players.)

People also like to say, "The game should foster team play." BULL. SHIT.

People like to say, "Those who shoot first are rewarded." Sorry, but that's a cop out. Those who are prepared, and who are aware of their environment, and who expect death from others, can learn to survive.

Everybody needs to realize that anyone, anywhere can turn on them at any time. It's all part of the game.

[catgut 3]

Really? You think a single player has any real advantage over a co-operative team? There's no reward' date=' here, certainly. If you shoot first, you are severely hampering your abilities. I don't know of a single lone wolf player that doesn't agree. Some just choose to play that way.[/quote']

The reward is everything they're carrying plus a significantly reduced forecast of incoming gunfire for the afternoon.

I never said that I think the game should foster team play or that players are forced to shoot on sight. But you can't really complain that player mentality is the problem when the game rewards that player mentality more than any other. You can try to buck the trend, but the most likely result is getting shot repeatedly.

As it stands, if you try to group up with someone you don't know, you're taking a serious risk- for what? The zombies aren't enough of a threat to need backup. You can't move around the game world any faster, so you're only going to keep half of the supplies you run across. The only advantage is that you're more of a threat to other players, and that isn't very useful if you get shot in the back of the head first.

What you suggest is to simply avoid other players, so you don't run into that sort of conflict at all. That strikes me as a cop-out. I am not saying killing other players is an absolute necessity, or that it's impossible to avoid people. I'm saying, right now, if two people should run into each other out of the blue, the game greatly encourages them to try to kill each other, and condemning either of them for not trying to make peace knowing that it's in the other guy's interest to shoot, loot, and scoot is downright ridiculous.

If teamwork were as viable as killing and looting, the deathmatching problem would disappear overnight without needing holier-than-thou value judgments about who is and who isn't part of the problem or ignoring a huge part of the gameplay by avoiding players altogether. If zombies were a real threat, not just when going for supplies but all the time, players would have a direct interest in working together. If communication were improved and the ability to holster a weapon added, players would be able to indicate peaceable intentions much more easily.

Banditry doesn't need to be punished and it can still be a legitimate playstyle, but if the survivor playstyle is made equally viable then there will be an alternative, and it doesn't have to be done in any artificial manner that destroys the game's tension or realism.

[xximrtwoixx 104]

Its complete bs that people are saying team work or a co-operative team play isn't viable or more desirable than playing solo. Greater numbers equals greater success in any endevour in the game. Your survival time at least doubles for every member in your group, even if they are complete noobs, they can still catch a bullet or be spotted instead of you. Another huge aspect of group play is extra eyes, you are much more likley to spot other players as group, and because initiative outways any other advantage in combat your much more likely to walk away.

This dynamic gets dicey because even a small group of decent players soon becomes overpowered compared to the world around them. Zombies, even hordes are no challenge and because playing as a lone wolf is so prevelent lone survivors/bandits are easy pray to a even a small group. The group is empowered and soon turns into the monster that caused them to group up in the first place. If a group member dies they can guard the spot and wait for their buddy to return, thus they mitigate the weak period after initial spawn.

I don't think the system needs to be nerfed in anyway to mitigate any of this gameplay. Any and all of these scenarios are exactly what you should expect from the apocolypse. I think the pvp could be reduced by adding activities for fully kitted players, giving them something to do rather than killing other players. Builidng safehavens, clearing towns, operational vehicles etc. That would take care of the power groups, but I don't think there is a way to turn the southern cities into anything other than killing fields.

I think that because players don't really value their lives after initial spawn, because they have no gear, the entire south is a shoot first get loot get out zone. I'm not sure that this could be fixed it could be addressed but there will always be people that would rather shoot you for your beans than share them.

I'm not sure how you could force players to value their characters life when they initialy spawn or ever for that matter. Some people want to survive others want to play an fps with zombies. You could encourage early grouping by making the cities harder to crack but really you just shift the murdering to more remote locations. You could remove a starting fire-arm, players then would not fear each other and be more likely to group up before finding a weapon, though I don't think the community would like this solution.

[dedbodiez 0]

resources are running out ... kill somebody else

Fixed that for you.

[catgut 3]

Its complete bs that people are saying team work or a co-operative team play isn't viable or more desirable than playing solo. Greater numbers equals greater success in any endevour in the game. Your survival time at least doubles for every member in your group' date=' even if they are complete noobs, they can still catch a bullet or be spotted instead of you. Another huge aspect of group play is extra eyes, you are much more likley to spot other players as group, and because initiative outways any other advantage in combat your much more likely to walk away.[/quote']

As it is, zombies are not much of a threat, whether you have ten people or just yourself. The main advantage gained by teamwork is that you are better able to kill and survive at PvP, but you're much more likely to get shot by the guy you're trying to befriend than to actually befriend him and have him take a bullet for you later. Your chances are better in the long run if you don't take that risk to begin with, and most people are worth less than the gear they're carrying, and those, IMO, are the main problems.

And have you tried working in a group of four or more? Unless you split up constantly to search multiple places it's hard to find enough food and water to keep everyone going. You don't find four times as many supplies by virtue of having four times as many people.

Like I said, all I think the game needs is for zombies to actually be a threat, no matter where you are. If zombies are only an obstacle to gathering supplies, then players will kill each other for supplies. But if they're an omnipresent threat and are dangerous enough and sufficiently numerous to kill you if you screw up even a bit, then there's a strong reason to try to group up.

I'm not sure how you could force players to value their characters life when they initialy spawn or ever for that matter. Some people want to survive others want to play an fps with zombies. You could encourage early grouping by making the cities harder to crack but really you just shift the murdering to more remote locations. You could remove a starting fire-arm' date=' players then would not fear each other and be more likely to group up before finding a weapon, though I don't think the community would like this solution.[/quote']

I don't see how denying people guns would help. If you see someone running in the distance and you're unarmed, you're not going to go up to him and try to be friends, and it would only encourage people to camp Cherno and kill the newly-spawned players.

[qfan 1]

Increasing zombie threat would be good. For those that might not have seen this or played the actual mission

Great video of the potential that Dayz could have in certain areas (including quests). Some of the higher risk places on the map could play like this, say the NW airfield for example. I like the creepy old lady in the woods too. Great atmosphere, as good as Dayz itself, if not even more disturbing.

"This is a zombie coop mission with specific objectives and one life per character. Equipment and munitions are scarce and the enemy is dangerous and numerous, which promotes tactics, teamwork and good shooting." http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=15372

I'm not sure if it would curb deathmatch play styles entirely though and by that I don't mean removing pvp. I mean the developing trend toward shoot first tactics. It would benefit to make pvp more difficult for bandits.

Catgut's right. There are few incentives if you like the idea of teaming up with people you don't know (if you don't have mates that like this sort of game). Too much to gain by shooting first.