The PvP Discussion Thread

[Toll 1]

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind getting shot. I had a great time the other night after an epic run the ended in my death, shot from some guy after a tense game of hide and seek. Loved it.

I was just adding to the discussion, something of which are not.

[Sarise 1]

I'm sure this has been pointed out at some point in this thread, but I'm going to go ahead and say it regardless. Other players (People) are competition for your supplies. People look at this whole "working together" thing as if people are stupid enough to run around as a solo person all guns blazing. Some people are doing this and they're the easy people to deal with. They've got no real tactics in mind and no survival skills. However, some of us play with a group. This group is our family, all other players are merely road blocks on our path to survival. Taking someones life removes another mouth to feed, that is the truth. Let's be honest with ourselves, if we were in a survival situation we wouldn't be trying to make friends with everyone we see unless our group dynamic required an addition. You would keep your numbers to the bare minimum possible and often times removing another person from the world is your best bet at survival. That guy going into the market, is he there to steal all the food? Is he a potential ally or will he be hostile? Perhaps this individual is merely going to ruin most of the supplies as he is delirious and unaware? Unless you are in need of someone who knows first aid this person is a threat to your survival. He rushes through the market looting, knocking over supplies in his haste. Your group comes in shortly after he departs to find little more than scraps remaining.

Point here is that roaming around as a pack of people and taking out the competition for supplies isn't something that should be punished or removed. If you're getting wiped out, make friends. Build a trusting relationship with a group of players. If you think people randomly killing others is "unrealistic" you need a reality check. When the shit hits the fan, most people aren't going to love their neighbor. You get the people you trust together and you survive. You don't go out of your way to attempt some sort of heroics. Being a hero gets people killed. This is a survival game, learning to deal with your environment is key. This means zombies, weather, and people.

tl;dr Player killing needs no penalties. Make friends and protect your group. Above all else, survive.

[Toll 1]

"Above all else, survive"

The problem is it is too easy to survive. Grab some beans, couple of canteens and AFK in the deep forest. Go get some food/water every few hours. That gets boring real fast though. The game world needs to be much much harsher. Hopefully disease and other factors will increase in that area, hopefully these additions will be more then enough to change the balance of coopertivity.

[Sarise 1]

I think that's a quality idea. I'd almost dare to say having various skills could also go a long way as well. I don't know if there is a way to get that into the game. Maybe if players could pick a class at the start that locks them into a certain set of skills. Most fools can pick up a gun and shoot it. How many of us can pick a fly off a camels back though? Most fools can put on a band-aid with some ointment. How many of us know how to stop serious bleeding? Alas, this has little to do with PvP itself. It's an interesting idea though, to make it so not everyone can perform everything the same as another player. As it stands you don't exactly need someone for anything other than blood packs. You could just go hunt wild game to get your health back.

Let's be honest here though. PvP is what truly makes this mod exciting. L4D is a great example of how PvP enhances your experience. Playing against the AI only varies things up so much. Increasing the difficulty doesn't make the AI do new tricks, it just increases the damage you take. Real people introduce a spice to the game that the AI just can't bring. AI is static, is only searches for certain variables. You can learn the AI, you can master it's methods and abuse it. Dealing with zombies in Dayz is usually no more difficult than running into a house to get them to slowly walk toward you. Even if zombies would sprint into houses, it would take no more than one person per entrance to maintain the security of the house. The spice comes from knowing that if you squeeze off a shot, you're alerting other players to your whereabouts.

[callousdisregard 2]

I wouldn't be so quick to write off the Zeds as a danger. This is very early in the mod and AI behaviour can be changed.

[The Killing Joke 43]

Let's be honest here though. PvP is what truly makes this mod exciting. L4D is a great example of how PvP enhances your experience. Playing against the AI only varies things up so much. Increasing the difficulty doesn't make the AI do new tricks' date=' it just increases the damage you take. Real people introduce a spice to the game that the AI just can't bring. AI is static, is only searches for certain variables. You can learn the AI, you can master it's methods and abuse it. Dealing with zombies in Dayz is usually no more difficult than running into a house to get them to slowly walk toward you. Even if zombies would sprint into houses, it would take no more than one person per entrance to maintain the security of the house. The spice comes from knowing that if you squeeze off a shot, you're alerting other players to your whereabouts.[/quote']

This is incredibly true.

Last night, I was searching desperately for a server that had a shred of daylight left. It was midnight in my area, and the only servers I could find in 'dusk' were playing as hardcore, and withe the new equipment I was carrying, I was afraid to try. (I had a nice 1911 and a Winchester, both stocked with a lot of ammo, and enough food and water for three days.)

Then, I logged on to one, and noticed the entire sky was ablaze in front of me. I was in Cherno, and read a lot of people complaining about the dark. I thought, "what the hell?" and wondered why people were complaining when it was so bright. Then it hit me. I waited and read chat for a few minutes, and my thoughts were confirmed.

Black Hawk down! (Or some such.) Yes, there was supposedly a downed heli, and it was close to Cherno. (Actually, it was about 1000' from my spawn-in position.) I ran to it, keeping tabs on my rapidly rising temperature, and took up a position as close to it as I could. From there, I slowly approached, wondering if I was supposed to wait for the flames to die down, or look around for anything that could be scavenged. It was then that I found it.

The survivor carrying the ALICE pack.

I quickly fired five or ten shots into him, and he went down hard. My 1911 was pretty loud, and I figured it would probably alert others, so I scurried over to the body, and tried to loot. Nada. I couldn't even get the menu up for what he was carrying. I circled the body, trying to figure it out, when the motherfucker stood up in front of me.

I cried out "holy shit!!!" (yes, IRL) as he raised his gun and I raised mine. I pumped in another 10 shots and hear the tell-tale sound of flies buzzing.

"AHA!" I thought! I learned something new - you may not be able to loot a body if it's not dead yet! I hunkered down over my prize, opened the menu to see the goodies.

"POW!" My screen went grey, my character dropped to her knees, and fell to the side, dead. I had just enough time to see another survivor run in, carrying their rifle, towards my limp, lifeless body before the end screen took me.

It was midnight. My house was dark. My heart was pounding. My character was dead. My loot was lost.

This game is AMAZING. I wouldn't change a damn thing.

[Mokretsy 15]

It was midnight. My house was dark. My heart was pounding. My character was dead. My loot was lost.

This game is AMAZING. I wouldn't change a damn thing.

Spot on! +1

[officer2008 8]

I like the pvp point of the game it makes it intense and exciting. I understand you guys say it's survival but it's like some are fearless and irrlogical. A lot of people play the im w killer and ruthless for no reason, like in the movies of the people who are crazy in zombie movies, they do this usually to end there life, be killed instead of committing sucide.

The actually demand and need of supplies like bullets get removed some because they respawn. Bullets would be like gold in a world like that.

[Dynami 18]

I was on such a roll today. It ended with me dumping 2 clips into a guy. I sneak up to him to finish the job and shoot him 2 times in the head while he as bandaging himself or something..

He then turns around, shoots me once and I'm dead.

:(

[worst2first 71]

Camping on the Bean Coast and PK'ing newly spawned players is bullshit. I have no problem with the people who have taken me out deep in the woods or in the far north though.

[The Killing Joke 43]

Camping on the Bean Coast and PK'ing newly spawned players is bullshit. I have no problem with the people who have taken me out deep in the woods or in the far north though.

Agreed.

Interesting side note! The last two times I've spawned have been within a stone's throw of Elektro and then Cherno. I was like, "WHHHHAAAATTTT?????!!!" It was awesome.

[kaffaljidhma 1]

MasterCaution' pid='78821' dateline='1338200103']

Another player that can't hack it wants to change the game completely.

What a fucking surprise.

Let me give you a clue .....people who shoot you aren't assholes or douches' date=' they are players in DayZ.

In DayZ we get to shoot whoever we want and if that is you, tough shit.

If you want to play without PvP, go to another game.

What is so fucking hard to understand about that ?

24 hours to get your gear back ?

The mod would die in week or less.

If you can't stand the heat, do us all a favor and get the fuck out of the kitchen !

[hr']

There's a new PVP game in town' date=' and it's called Zombie Training. What you do is get a really loud gun and fire it in a crowded town, then start the running of the bulls to the next town and watch for sightings of juicy survivors, bandits, whatever. Once you spot them, and they of course start shooting at you, zigzag towards them with your zombie army and watch as the AI priority falls straight on the unlucky predator. After the zombies have finished eating, throw a flare to distract, loot the body or don't, who cares, you don't need anything but the occasional food and bandage, then pick up the horde and move on to the next town.

Only people sure of their aim will try to snipe you, and if they miss, all you need to do is go within hearing range of their obviously loud weapon to let the zombies do their work. If they duck inside a building, it's a guaranteed death sentence, as you can run in circles around the place firing a Lee Enfield into the air and the zombies will still prefer to shamble into the building to get at the desperate meat grinder within. Force a disconnect and you'll guarantee that person won't be back anytime soon.

Zombies can run through walls and aren't fooled by cover, they'll wait patiently while you eat and drink in a barn before resuming your run, and they're never out of ammunition. All you need to master this army is a good middle finger - stay on the roads, dodge and weave just a little to throw off snipers, and watch as you wreak carnage on groups of six coordinated players without ever firing a shot or losing humanity. According to the game, I'm a saint, even though I cause 5 or so deaths every time I run through Cherno.

[/quote']

What server please ?

You see, I am not a sniper. I am a rifleman and I will keep firing until I hit you and your army devours you. So you go ahead and zig-zag all you want, but I will still hit at least once and that's all it takes.

The benefit there is while sniper rifles spawn everywhere, automatic rifles only spawn at military locations, guaranteeing you'll probably be killed by a bandit before I ever get to see you. Believe it or not, firing a rifle at sniper range does not take down a person in one hit, and unfortunately for the rifleman, the loudness of the rifle and its rate of fire makes firing on a mob of zombies midrange especially perilous.

[The Killing Joke 43]

Whenever anybody asks me if I'm going to turn on them and shoot them in-game, I always answer them

.

[Dinnj 4]

I was not sarcastic at all. With such respawn' date=' people would stick together for safety, like in real life.

It would reduce the playerbase ofcourse. The kids would fly off in an instant, true players would stay.

Avg time of life would increase, everyone would want to stay alive, again like in real life.

See, if this shit happened IRL, you, me, pretty much everybody would go cry in a corner waiting for it to stop. Behind a screen, in a game, with no punishment whatsoever, everybody is a brave hero or mass murderer.

[/quote']

Posts like this make me really depressed about the player base.

Bandits tend to actually live longer than survivors, it's still the logical choice to stay alive for longer. If the people who hate getting ganked now are whining, they'll leave if they have to wait 12/24 hours to respawn again after getting bandit sniped. It makes the game less attractive to EVERYONE involved. Such a retarded idea, honestly. I can't really remember the last successful game I played with this kind of rule. This mod is the right balance of apocalyptic conditions and entertainment. You cannot simulate fear of death without hooking up a rig to kill the player when they die in game.

[necee 0]

Since this is THE PvP Discussion thread, I'll post this here, feel free to ignore it.

Bandits, and that type of gameplay make this mod exhilarating, without them it would get boring very fast. Running around grabbing guns and other supplies, just to run around getting more supplies and guns with the occasional zombie massacre? No that would be horrible. Banditry is essential to DayZ, and trying to penalize players for banditry, or reward others for humanity is a horrible idea.

Knowing that there are people out there that will kill me on sight makes every encounter I have with another player exhilarating...whether I see someone across town, or run into them inside a building it gets my heart beating very fast. When I have equipment I'm attached to these encounters get even more tense.

Knowing that there are people out there that will kill me on sight forces me to be aware of my surroundings; it forces me to think about how I approach a town or move in the field; it forces me to think about who might be in that building ahead of me or overlooking town from a building top, or hill; it forces me to be very weary of using light at night (actually I don't play at night because of the whole gamma thing, which I refuse to do).

Zombie AI is predictable and not something gameplay should rely on, only be enhanced by. Human behavior is less predictable and I believe is what a "Sand Box" game like dayZ should revolve around.

Some people are saying the mod is turning into a "TDM/CoD map etc" aka -shoot on sight- I think a lot of that is being caused by, and being greatly exacerbated by bad/lacking communications. Saluting and typing can get you killed too easily. Direct chat VOIP, or something like ACRE would drastically reduce the cases of "shoot first, don't bother asking questions" mentality (IMO). Also I believe that holding voice conversations with a person will form a kind of "bond" making players less likely to backstab, along with making it easier to pick up on cues of un-trustworthy behavior. There will still be bandits, but this will cut down on panic murders.

The first and only time I have murdered someone was walking into a room with an AKS and coming upon a survivor exchanging gear, he looked up at me and I panicked and held the trigger for 2 seconds. I wasn't going to take the time to type "Friendly?" in side channel, or salute. He died because I didn't want to risk losing my AKS and 4 magazines. If there was a way of communicating I would have told him to "freeze etc" but there is no option for it, so he died. I feel bad about it, but hey 'tis the way it goes.

[phienyx 14]

...and this is the type of bullshit I'm talking about. I haven't recently seen any thread that suggests removing PvP. Instead of playing Internet tough guy, maybe work on your comprehension skills.

Given your line of thinking, if someone just rolls up on you on the street and busts you two to the head, they're not an asshole or a douche, they're just another human being who just happens to get off on causing other humans grief. If you can't stand the heat, get the fuck out of the fire, huh? I'm sure this is not what your thoughts would be as you're lying there on the ground with your brains all over the pavement. Now given that is an extreme example, but its exactly that line of thinking that is attributed to murderers, assholes, douches....etc...etc. I don't care if it was the apocalypse, this behavior would not be excused by ANYONE except those asshole douches that participate.

With that said, player on player violence should not be removed from the game, but it should not be THE way to play. I may be way off the mark, but I doubt the developers intended for this game to be a glorified sandbox DM/TDM with zombies as an afterthought. Also, being that this is in alpha state, you can be pretty sure that this mod will gain new features which modify how it is played and how people interact with each other on a regular basis.

Most people who are douches in game are either douche bitches in real life also or closet douche bitches and only do it in environments where there are no possible significant consequences.

There should be and will be more to this mod in the future and I dare say that some of it will address the issue of how player killing is handled.

[callousdisregard 2]

It was midnight. My house was dark. My heart was pounding. My character was dead. My loot was lost.

This game is AMAZING. I wouldn't change a damn thing.

Spot on! +1

+1 cubed !

---

...and this is the type of bullshit I'm talking about. I haven't recently seen any thread that suggests removing PvP. Instead of playing Internet tough guy' date=' maybe work on your comprehension skills.

Given your line of thinking, if someone just rolls up on you on the street and busts you two to the head, they're not an asshole or a douche, they're just another human being who just happens to get off on causing other humans grief. If you can't stand the heat, get the fuck out of the fire, huh? I'm sure this is not what your thoughts would be as you're lying there on the ground with your brains all over the pavement. Now given that is an extreme example, but its exactly that line of thinking that is attributed to murderers, assholes, douches....etc...etc. I don't care if it was the apocalypse, this behavior would not be excused by ANYONE except those asshole douches that participate.

With that said, player on player violence should not be removed from the game, but it should not be THE way to play. I may be way off the mark, but I doubt the developers intended for this game to be a glorified sandbox DM/TDM with zombies as an afterthought. Also, being that this is in alpha state, you can be pretty sure that this mod will gain new features which modify how it is played and how people interact with each other on a regular basis.

Most people who are douches in game are either douche bitches in real life also or closet douche bitches and only do it in environments where there are no possible significant consequences.

There should be and will be more to this mod in the future and I dare say that some of it will address the issue of how player killing is handled.

[/quote']

I can translate this post for those of you who don't speak fluent whinge.

"Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!" and "booooooohooooo for me cuz i sux @ multiplayer" ->" most of the time i die because I'm incompetent but i blame others for my lack of skill" and then some more "waaaaaaaaaaaaah".... and then ..." oh yeah, I'm as tough as you are !"

[ihucus@gmail.com 3]

I'm really upset with players DCing. 3 times yesterday our group had the jump on another group and they just lay down and DC. They should get an hourglass at DC screen if they have taken damage recently.

[bdizzle_8x 6]

I'm really upset with players DCing. 3 times yesterday our group had the jump on another group and they just lay down and DC. They should get an hourglass at DC screen if they have taken damage recently.

summed up perfectly DCing is str8 up bitch.

[callousdisregard 2]

The benefit there is while sniper rifles spawn everywhere' date=' automatic rifles only spawn at military locations, guaranteeing you'll probably be killed by a bandit before I ever get to see you. Believe it or not, firing a rifle at sniper range does not take down a person in one hit, and unfortunately for the rifleman, the loudness of the rifle and its rate of fire makes firing on a mob of zombies midrange especially perilous.

[/quote']

Sniper rifles are EXTREMELY rare but i'm guessing you are talking about the CZ550 which seems to spawn less often than it used to but is NOT a sniper rifle but rather a hunting rifle with a scope.

If I hit you with a 5.56 or 7.62 ( both are rifle calibers readily available in the game) you are going down. You may not die but if you have chosen to lead a horde of 10 or more zombies, that wound will result in your death in a short period of time.

The sound of my rifle is only a threat to me if I chose to fire it withindetection range of a Zed and there are many places I can fire that no Zed will aggro on me and yet I will still have a clear line of sight to a main road or important structure.

But I think that guy was full of shit and while he might have pulled off the "zombie army" trick once, it is far from a sure-fire tactic.

[Leodor (DayZ) 0]

I have 0 murders and 0 bandit kills lifetime, HOWEVER I have seen other players, and approach cautiously, or if I have not been spotted, I retreat. I am not expecting this to last forever, but if the only thing to do in this game was collect food and kill zombies I would no longer be playing. I now have an AK-74 and 8 mags. I am about ready to go on the offensive. And it will not be on the newbie beaches. Killing someone with nothing I want, and only a markarov to defend themselves is not even fun.

Getting the drop on someone who is kitted out, is.

PvP (the threat of death) makes this mod, whether you like it or not. Zombies, if you can make it into a building are not even a threat as long as you carry a proper amount of ammo.

[worst2first 71]

I don't disconnect but if everyone is going to be bandit bastards because "I have to do whatever it takes to survive" then I'm going to start disconnecting. After all, I'm just doing "whatever it takes" to keep playing the game the way I want to.

[firecrow 4]

I have 0 murders and 0 bandit kills lifetime' date=' HOWEVER I have seen other players, and approach cautiously, or if I have not been spotted, I retreat. I am not expecting this to last forever, but if the only thing to do in this game was collect food and kill zombies I would no longer be playing. I now have an AK-74 and 8 mags. I am about ready to go on the offensive. And it will not be on the newbie beaches. Killing someone with nothing I want, and only a markarov to defend themselves is not even fun.

Getting the drop on someone who is kitted out, is.

PvP (the threat of death) makes this mod, whether you like it or not. Zombies, if you can make it into a building are not even a threat as long as you carry a proper amount of ammo.

[/quote']

I don't generally kill other players unless I'm under attack but I have to say.. after a couple of incidents the past weekend I'm leaning more and more to shoot on sight unless I know you.

This is Day Z without any accountability for killing people. Name and shame doesn't work since you can just change your profile and keep all your gear under a new name.

Without any way to tell who is who I'm more likely to take a person down and say "Sorry" afterwards. It's just the way it has to be now really.. I already stay the hell away from Elektro and Cherno because the routes in and out are a gank fest for the bean killers lol.

[Menny 116]

I thought about gettng a group of survivors together and invade Cherno to wipe it from bandits and keep the city under control. Probably enforce it as DMZ, where weapons are to be confiscated by guards before entering. Make it into a 'safe haven' where people can come and trade with eachother without having to fear for their lives.

That would be awesome.

[callousdisregard 2]

I thought about gettng a group of survivors together and invade Cherno to wipe it from bandits and keep the city under control. Probably enforce it as DMZ' date=' where weapons are to be confiscated by guards before entering. Make it into a 'safe haven' where people can come and trade with eachother without having to fear for their lives.

That would be awesome.

[/quote']

Please do.

In fact I think a lot of people would love to know what server your futile attempt will conducted on.