The PvP Discussion Thread

[DinkyDogg 1]

"

You're going to get killed by players either way it seems' date=' having a different outfit doesn't really factor when 60-90% of the server is hell bent on slaughtering people for small shit like spawn beans. "

Forgot to quote that little tid-bit, the most important part of my post I do believe.

[/quote']

Its only important if you assume everyones friendly. I have no delusions that everyone i see is friendly... when it comes to survival, assume everyones hostile

It's all part of the learning experience, and the charm of the mod, the tension of the environment. The skin is merely a flag to a player saying "this guys killed someone, hes a threat". Thats all i addressed, and thought everyone already knew that people can kill you for no reason.

[midhaven 0]

It does however feel like the pvp has increesed alot just in a few days. But there is still alot of friendly people around who you can team up with.

But the worst of the worst has to be the pvpers who ask if you are friendly when they are not.

But to people who complain about geting murderd you have to realize killing someone is a huge gamble. You might miss, then youll have alot of zombies on your ass aswell as a pissed off player. You might also hit the player, but unless its a headshot he will probably survive.

[rocket 16567]

Some kind of variance in zombie spawning, similar to the proposed rage system was put forward at one point a while ago. There are a number of technical issues that prevent screwing around with zombie spawning. I even did a small technical exploration of the concept - but we found it had the unintended consequence of actually hurting those around the "raged" player more than them-self. The mechanic was abandoned. Indeed, we've been talking about abandoning the bandit/humanity system because its proving to create a number of technical issues for little benefit.

To summarize the whole thread (hopefully). I think everyone can agree theres room for some exploration. The likely solution is not going to be too strong, for reasons of both motivation behind the mod and technical limitations (remember: this is a MOD not a GAME, there are significant limits on what can realistically be done).

[Metiphis 4]

Let the carebears have their carebear servers like in any MMO. I for one have been waiting for a hardcore game like this to come along where it is all or nothing, darting from tree to tree and scouting towns with my binoculars for 20 minutes before I even consider moving an inch out of cover.

If you loud mouth complainers get this game dumbed down like every other unique game I have ever played, because it doesn't make you feel like some unique little flower and molly coddle you. I am going to just absolutely lose it.

Wander up into the goddamn Northern wilderness if you are tired of getting killed every 5 minutes. Up there you only get killed every 10. Face it, most of you suck at low profile travel and scouting. So instead of bawling us all a river, GET BETTER WITH PRACTICE.

Christ almighty.

"but... but... but, the mans shoot me in the back when I spawn." So!? You spawn again and sprint your ass up into the forest. You run perpendicular to the roads, not ON the roads. You stay at least 100 miles from the coastal cities at all times.

You all have feline leukemia.

[rocket 16567]

Currently I am the only one working on the in-game code.

That means, whatever work I did on coding in a PVE/Coop server, would come directly out of the development of the current system. It would also mean balancing of existing/new mechanics would need to be considered from this new standpoint.

As I have said before, I'm working on consequences across the board to all actions. But we're unlikely to "punish" people who shoot other players, because that's out of scope of the project.

[Metiphis 4]

Currently I am the only one working on the in-game code.

That means' date=' whatever work I did on coding in a PVE/Coop server, would come directly out of the development of the current system. It would also mean balancing of existing/new mechanics would need to be considered from this new standpoint.

As I have said before, I'm working on consequences across the board to all actions. But we're unlikely to "punish" people who shoot other players, because that's out of scope of the project.

[/quote']

Ah yes, the creator of this masterwork. You have created a dangerous world to live in and I love it. As you balance the mechanics of the game more and more, I hope you are always mindful not to dull the edge of the deadly blade that is the survival experience we get with this mod. Otherwise the stories I tell my friends, after each session of play, would become terribly dull.

[b00ce 5]

I honestly think that the bandit model should be removed because it promotes random murdering.

"Oh, shit, there's a bandit! Kill him, quick!" This makes all of the regular survivors just as bad, or even worse than the bandits! It takes away from the atmosphere of not knowing the intentions of another individual, which is a big part of the mod. Not only that, but why on EARTH would someone who relies on subterfuge and deceit to practice his trade of banditry identify himself, and his intentions, with a particular uniform that makes him a target?

What I'd rather see is being able to choose your model/skin for that character play though. With hidden selections and the right scripting it shouldn't be too hard to implement. If I were better at scripting, I'd give it a whack, but I don't even know where to begin.

[Freyar 8]

You mean you lack any knowledge of simple biological chemical functions such as sweat' date=' body ordor and pheromones? And that the scent of all three can be affected by emotions and general lifestyle?

Does it completely escape you then, that an animalistic ex-human with a heightened sense of smell could just maybe detect the same things other animals do when they smell your sweat and fear before they even see you? Or even that us scent-handicapped humans can detect these same things to a lesser (often unconscious) degree?

Knowing that emotions like habitual rage, and other antisocial lifestyles affects our body ordor isn't some "magic balance factor", [u']it's real life. So whether you want to approach this from a realism standpoint or game-balancing standpoint, it blends either way.

Of course, the only game element here is making that humongous leap of faith where we have to assume just maybe animalistic scent-enhanced Zombies might find something unique that stands out above the usual smell of fear- that a lifestyle of constant rage and antisocial behaviour towards others might increase levels of sweat and affect the ordor.

But yeah, such a leap must be completely unfathomable given everything we know about Zombies... how they have that remarkable sense of smell and hearing, minor details at best! Yes, it must be quite a stretch...

or perhaps it's more likely you're already too-far entrenched in having a deathmatch arena that you feign objection to a legitimate suggestion that appeals to both realism and gameplay?

Man are you sounding more and more hostile regarding ANY negative criticism of your ideas.

Sounds like a bad movie, really.

Gene Talmon turns to Bill Everette, "Calm down mate.. you see those zombies? They can smell your fear."

My assumption was that the zombies were completely dumb. They don't smell, they detect based on sight and sound. If Rocket's interested in fleshing out his zombie concept, that's all fine and dandy and would probably allow me to accept and piece together some biological and physiological changes that happens to these zombies to begin with.

How do you turn this into a deterrent rather than a punishment? One only changes after the fact, one will make that decision to pull the trigger a massive problem for the shooter. Increased auditory detection is certainly one option. Better yet, maybe better visual detection with higher heartrates as a result of combat in combination with the sights and sounds of gunfire that lasts for a small while after shots are fired.

You dismiss my aversion as "You like deathmatch" without giving my considerations a second thought. "You're a dumbass for not knowing about pheromones and sweat and things!"

[AllDayZSimon 75]

Add infection, you get scratched/bit once and you're dead no matter what - Sixty second timer tops until you fall to the floor dead and change.

Is that REAL enough for you? Stop with the "___ is real while ___ is just stupid".

You think that we'd find working ACOGs and other technology?

You think that humanity collapses onto itself as soon as authority is gone - Sorry it doesn't, the fact that we're still around and..You know, -Civilized- can attest to that.

You have fucking PMC "Survivors" in kevlar, Yeah that's totally realistic guys, we have Baseball caps and M4s but we lack the brain and communication skills to not murder anyone we see on sight.

Long story short, video games aren't supposed to be "Real". You want the real thing, throw on a helmet and go get shot at in the bum fuck desert. I'm pretty sure no one will care about how "Real" it is when you're draining blood and your "Uber-Real videogame skills" don't come in handy at all.

[jacobite 1]

But I don't see any defined game mechanics or specific balancing suggestions in here.

Game mechanics.

Because communication is a feature of the game and can help dictate players decisions could you trial a server were-by there is no Global communication and direct chat via IRC/VOIP is the only method of communication present within the world.

Yes this can be broken via players using 3d party communication software but for those of us who may want a deeper experience it would be nice to see a test preformed were players contact with other players is dictated by their vicinity and not by raising a question in a global channel or by being influenced by those global channels.

"Such and such just killed me in X" Would directly affect the decision of the player. Without that information that player would still wander into the town and possibly meet that hostile force and possibly learn something from that encounter that he may never had been able to experience because someone is global chat was whining.

A thought occurs to me. Radios.

What if you limit global chat to finding a radio/receiver in game.

What implications would this have?

Players who desire contact and information could have a way to receive that information via finding an item in game. Information might actually be seen as a resource then. At the moment all I see in the bottom right of my screen is blue chat of people never using direct chat when they are clearly in a group together.

In terms of the direct chat mechanic I love the idea and it applies so deeply to this game. You and another group see each other from a far and are out of communication distance because for the sake of this example global chat is turned off. How would people signal FoF using the items they have in-game?

Would you want to risk getting closer because you don't have binoculars to see what weaponry they have. It would be interesting to see parties that actually get into direct communication range and what could come from it. Negotiations taking place while both parties are on guard.

It would add I feel, crazy amounts of tension to meeting other players in game and considering that the game runs on that for a lot of people. I would strongly like to see this at least tested or hear your thoughts on the matter Rocket.

[rocket 16567]

Good ideas but remember, much of what is suggested requires changing the core game which is not possible, difficult, or fraught with unintended consequences.

DayZ is a modification of ArmA2, this places significant limitations/dangers around what can be done.

[swayzesghost 14]

Murdered in the back of the head again last night...Was more of a tense situation this time though. Could've been prevented, or I could've understood the situation and protected myself better with DC. Any idea when DC might make it back in Rocket?

[Pale_Rider 2]

I agree that DC is pretty important. I don't know what the limitations of the engine are but Jacobite is on the right track.

[Kenya East 0]

I agree that DC is pretty important. I don't know what the limitations of the engine are but Jacobite is on the right track.

What's DC?

[oktyabr 53]

DC = "Direct Communication". The "direct communication" channel of the game's VOIP system and in my opinion, the only one anyone should ever see, hear or use.

[noisegrrrl 8]

Good ideas but remember' date=' much of what is suggested requires changing the core game which is not possible, difficult, or fraught with unintended consequences.

DayZ is a modification of ArmA2, this places significant limitations/dangers around what can be done.

[/quote']

Would having zombies spawn in the wilderness (in less numbers) work, or would that bring too much of a charge to the servers?

[vert 0]

Rocket, would it be possible to make it so when you spawn ingame you are protected for 30 seconds or something(unless you fire your own gun)?

Only reason I ask is because I joined the game yesterday and was presented with a gun pointed at my head, and then died :)

[Kophka 109]

You want to stop the bandits from murdering? You want law and order? IMPOSE IT! Form a militia, a posse, a band of bandit-slayin' brothers. Go hunting for known bandits.

This game has a LOT of potential. It could even end up turning into THE zombie mmo, once bigger (and MUCH more stable) servers come along. Once you can REGULARLY meet up with friends in-game, and servers have a stable population, we'll all be able to recognize names in the game, and be able to associate past actions with those names.

Things that would help :

A way to recognize people. Sometimes peoples names show when you look at them, and other times they don't. Frustratingly random, and having a way to identify other players at a glance (with a name over their head or under your crosshair) is a great thing.

A better way to communicate.

A way to form squads or factions, or clans in-game, and recognize faction members (mouse-over name colors?).

A way report and keep track of known PK's, maybe with an in-game notification system like a BlueFor Pop-Up ("rumor says so and so has turned bandit!").

All little things that would enhance the game, and I look forward to seeing how this all turns out. :)

[David Trebecho 1]

Lets assume that everything you say is true. Lets assume that indeed' date=' food, water, ammo, and weapons literally grow on trees, and said fruits drop into our hands effortlessly.

So what's there left to do?

Survive? What do you mean, survive? Shoot at retarded AI zombies for days on end? Is that all you want the mod to be, overstocked, overstuffed carebear players with not a trouble in the world, aimlessly and mindlessly moving from town to town, shooting zombies who possess the exact same mental capacity as said shooters?

And if it's oh, so easy to gather up supplies in literally minutes, why are people complaining there is literally nothing but towns of empty cans and empty whiskey bottles? Why are people like you enraged at the prospect of another player killing you, when it's so effortless to simply respawn and gather some more loot that's pouring out of every concrete orifice?

Could it perhaps be that you're just a confused contradiction? Could it be that in reality, people are bloody LOVING the mod in it's current, relatively broken, severely bugged, and at times very flawed state? Let me tell you this, though. There is always a customer compaints department, a customer's appreciation department doesn't exist. Similarly, plenty of people will sign up and whine for days on end, for whatever reasons. But the ones who are happy, the ones who are enjoying themselves on the bloody packed servers right this minute, are not on this forum expressing their infinite joy, because they'd rather continue enjoying themselves with the mod.

I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong somewhere. You tell me. You seem to have all the facts, friendo.

[/quote']

We just need more people like you posting on the forums saying how much we currently like and love the game, and that we don't need or much want anything out of it to keep playing it.

[bodycount 83]

I did not murder him.

I DID NOT MURDER HIM!

[Freeborne (DayZ) 7]

I just deathmatched last night and hunted noobs from Cherno to Elektro (on US1), especially those who were typing their locations on Side Chat. Killed 12 players, most with a Lee Enfield, and saw 5 players leave shortly after I killed them. Great way to play a game isn't it? When can I get some game-time with the Devs so I can show them how fun it is to be on the receiving end of someone with nothing to lose who just wants to ruin everyone else's fun?

I could have died at any time and honestly it wouldn't have phased me. I wasn't playing seriously, and had little interaction with other players (except for gunning them down). It was boring, and made me feel cheap and dirty the whole time, but I was on a foreign server and couldn't be bothered wasting time determining who I could trust when I would rarely see the same people ever again. I just can't be bothered trying to team up and enjoy the mod most days when I know there's several players out there just hunting other players, and almost everyone else will shoot you 50% of the time anyway rather than risk determining if you're friendly.

Go on any server and pay attention to chat text. You'll see there's a lot of new players trying to learn the game as well as the mod, and want to play cooperatively. They don't appreciate people DM'ing them for no reason, and killing them in cold blood. Engage them in a firefight and they might not be so annoyed if they lose and get killed, but the instant shot in the back from the shadows.... that really irks people, and makes them rage quit.

We need more bandits like RL-Warrior, who enjoy nothing more than ruining other people's games. Clone a few hundred of them so the Devs hate their own mod enough to bother fixing it. At the rate the bandits are breeding, and paranoia is spreading, it won't be long anyway.

Why all this bother having persistant servers, when the average life of 4hours on this website is a joke? With all the dead bodies on the beaches, that stat must be including players who are disconnected, because very few players stay alive for 8 hours in a game. So it's gone up from 2 hours to 4 hours. I don't think players are living longer, but spending less time in the game.

[Survivalist_MacLaren 1]

Currently I am the only one working on the in-game code.

That means' date=' whatever work I did on coding in a PVE/Coop server, would come directly out of the development of the current system. It would also mean balancing of existing/new mechanics would need to be considered from this new standpoint.

As I have said before, I'm working on consequences across the board to all actions. But we're unlikely to "punish" people who shoot other players, because that's out of scope of the project.

[/quote']

Thanks for not caving to the vocal minority. Love you.

[Jrod (DayZ) 3]

Yes, feedback is great and using it to shape your mod is a mark of good a developer, but also keeping to your own vision is just as important. The direction you seem to be going is very unique and I applaud you.

[MR DELICIOUS 297]

The way to deal with this problem isn't to remove PvP, or punish people for using it, but to give players more options in how to play the game. I've written a huge thread of suggestions, and most of - if not all of them - will lessen wreckless PvP.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=729

These suggestions will draw more experienced bandits away from the coast, as right now I can see that the majority of PvP occurs due to boredom and the fact that the CZ/enfield/winchester are the only weapons you can get any realistic amount of ammo for.

Similarly, the same thing applies. If you're in the coastal area - expect to die. Everybody is fair game on the coast.

[alienfreak 6]

I just deathmatched last night and hunted noobs from Cherno to Elektro (on US1)' date=' especially those who were typing their locations on Side Chat. Killed 12 players, most with a Lee Enfield, and saw 5 players leave shortly after I killed them. Great way to play a game isn't it? When can I get some game-time with the Devs so I can show them how fun it is to be on the receiving end of someone with nothing to lose who just wants to ruin everyone else's fun?

I could have died at any time and honestly it wouldn't have phased me. I wasn't playing seriously, and had little interaction with other players (except for gunning them down). It was boring, and made me feel cheap and dirty the whole time, but I was on a foreign server and couldn't be bothered wasting time determining who I could trust when I would rarely see the same people ever again. I just can't be bothered trying to team up and enjoy the mod most days when I know there's several players out there just hunting other players, and almost everyone else will shoot you 50% of the time anyway rather than risk determining if you're friendly.

Go on any server and pay attention to chat text. You'll see there's a lot of new players trying to learn the game as well as the mod, and want to play cooperatively. They don't appreciate people DM'ing them for no reason, and killing them in cold blood. Engage them in a firefight and they might not be so annoyed if they lose and get killed, but the instant shot in the back from the shadows.... that really irks people, and makes them rage quit.

We need more bandits like RL-Warrior, who enjoy nothing more than ruining other people's games. Clone a few hundred of them so the Devs hate their own mod enough to bother fixing it. At the rate the bandits are breeding, and paranoia is spreading, it won't be long anyway.

Why all this bother having persistant servers, when the average life of 4hours on this website is a joke? With all the dead bodies on the beaches, that stat must be including players who are disconnected, because very few players stay alive for 8 hours in a game. So it's gone up from 2 hours to 4 hours. I don't think players are living longer, but spending less time in the game.

[/quote']

I call bullsh1t on your story.

You are not in the leaderboards with 12 kills.

Also 12 kills on normal people should net you an average of -20000 humanity. Good luck stopping killing people.