Banditry exploded

[noobfun 87]

Trust me, I know history, even proto civilisations have morality. Those tribes who were ruthlessly slaughtering each other had forms of morality. Things that were taboo and would mean being ostrachised or killed by your clan. Fighting between clans is not a sign of amorality but of war

your right, but your not in my clan, what happened to people not in clan A but found by Clan A?

The fact you automatically assume morality = absence of violence shows how into the mindset of our decadent society you are!

no it shows your reading skills arnt all to great,

"Even tribes 3000 years ago had rules like don't kill someone just to take their beans when you've got perfectly good beans in your backpack." yes, dont take the beans from other peoples backpacks in our tribe

what happened to people not in our tribe?

'95% of native american tribes took part in raids against other villages for reasons such as capturing wives, killing large portions of them to weaken them, destroying food stores again to weaken them, revenge for earlier raids yada yada'

it shows both chimps and humans acting almost identically not just in violence but also in caring for others within the group, humans ingroups change on a minute by minute basis can be as small as my family or my friends, could be my city, my team, my country or even the whole world, but the second your in the outgroup your risk of violence actual or threat of goes up significantly

In Ancient Greece is was fine to rape and pillage non-Greeks settlements, but if you did anything remotely harmful to a fellow greek, or even a slave belonging to a greek, it could cost you your life.

ingroup

and how is one of the early civillised societies comparable to tribal hunter gatherer/hunter agriculturalists let alone to a total state of anarchy, this is like watching military exercises and concluding people dont die in wars

Being a psychopath and simply being violent are very different things.

yes one is a matter of brain wirring and the other is somthing peiople do everyday to other people in many ways

Killing a man for another tin of beans when you're not even short on food yourself is something a psychopath would do,

this isnt the 40's the term is socipath, they make up between 1-4% of the worlds population, only fractions of a percent of these become serial killers, a high proportion of buisness Ceo's are socipaths

and no usually if a sociopath kills you its not becasue they want somthing you have, in most cases its becasue of what you represent to them or you are percieved rightly or wrongly of holding them back

he sees two options, get extra beans and not get extra beans, so he kills the guy simply because he'd rather have the beans and doesn't see any downside.

welcome to the world of posative sum gains in the real world by regualr people, if i mug you for your watch even though i have a watch that doesnt make me a sociopath, i may choose to sell your watch for alternate gain, i may do it becasue i like your watch, i may do it becasue i dotn like you and denying you of things is the goal. this is stealing another kids trainers you dont like then throwing them away, this isnt neuronal functionality for a small group of mankind seen as having a mental condition this is people

This is because he lacks empathy with his victim.

your out group and dehumanised in my mind therfore the rules dont apply, you dont need to be a sociopath for this,

this is what happened in rowanda, this is what happened in nazi germany, the outgroup became dehumanised in the minds of the aggressors and so they could be dealt with without remorse, this happens all over the world, from the gang of locker room bullies, right up to govermental levels declaring people X inferior therfore actions can be taken against them that they wouldnt even think of doing to someone in thier ingroup

[noobfun 87]

Sure a zombie apocalypse would probably bring out the psychopath in many people,

you are a sociopath or your not, its that simple

but people don't just start being psychopaths because their lives are in danger, that's not how human beings function.

no they start becoming tribal, and thats worse becasue now it isnt 1 person who is incapable of feeling remorse, its a group of people who dont feel remorse or empathy becasue they have chosen you as an outgroup member

this is a group of jocks bullying a nerd, this is gang violence, this is soldiers laughing and cheering as they fire on the enemy(wether they are actually enemy or civillians), this is mankind operating on instinct this is tribalism

Almost all societies have had taboos against killing without justification.

but this only applies to the ingroup, it was common practice to beat torture rape and even kill slaves to keep them in line and perfectly legal to do so, but killing another slave owner was a criminal offence and got you punished, this is what can happen to out-groupers you live alongside the people you are more likley to empathy with then the out-groupers you dont

and this is just stepping into tribalism, the game steps past that into a total state of anarchy where for many people they dont even have a tribe, where everyone is outgroup, where everyone is a threat real or potential where detroying thier camps weakens them, where outright killing them stops them being a threat at all for a few more hours

Also going to add that Steve Pinker is just a political puppet who trys to bend science to invalidate ideaology, just putting that out there xD

congratulation, however you do realise storng ideology especially incases where it designates what good and bad are, are a driving factor in increased violence

ideology is just that an idea thats widley accepted regardless of how true it is or not, if the ideology concludes that certain people are good and certain people are bad and that the bad must be punished by the good then this grants the 'good people' immunity of concionse, becasue they are the 'good guys' no matter how bad the actions they commit get they are doing them for the purpose of 'good' therfore they are 'good'

hence jihad, the crusades, Stalinism, the holocaust,

and thats the thing with tribalism, its not hey lets go raid the next encampment kill a bunch of them and steal their food it will be epic lulz, it they are going to attack us sooner or later becasue they are bad so we should take actions to stop them, if we kill a bunch of them and take thier food it will be a long time before they are strong enough to come attack us

they are doing what is neccessary to protect them selves, and that involves doing to others what they fear will be done to them, but becasue they are doing to to pretect them selves its excusable actions, where if its done to them its an attack by bad people

they do the same to others as others do to them but they reframe it so its not a naughty thing they are doing, they rationalise it to them selves so the others actions are bad but thiers are not

how many forum posts do you see 'ive been killed so many times by people that they are forcing me to act the same way, but im doing it becasue i have to while they do it becasue they want to' or words to that effect, its the same thing in action, alot of the people shot them becasue they felt the same way as the poster but the poster has to tweek it so they can do the same thing but not seem/feel like the bad guy

this is the inner ape talking, better to do unto others before others do unto you we can rationalise it later

[noobfun 87]

Un-egoistic sharing makes use different from animals.

you mean a sense of fairness?

like cappuchins? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8mynrRd7Ak

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAFQ5kUHPkY

yeah we are deffiantley different then animals becasue they dont understand sharing or fairness ..try again

Edited July 28, 2012 by stuffnthings

[zython (DayZ) 196]

I think all the "It's alpha don't QQ" and "Adapt, noob" is counter productive.

In all honesty the rampant deathmatching is a negative aspect of the game.

[sm00tje 88]

Guys, guns & zombies. Trapped on a coast. What the hell you think was gonna happen? Wall all gather round a bus and sing Kumbaya together?

This would be great! Don't tell me you wouldn't enjoy it either.

To all those who still want to keep faith and help people: You have my respect, for me this ideal died today and my heart cries, it really does.

you should stop actin' like a child doin' the same shit. where is your honor, where is the brave? This is why banditry explodes 'cause guys gettin' shot at a few times, even after spawn, change to the darkside of dayz.

Edited July 28, 2012 by sm00tje

[noobfun 87]

I think all the "It's alpha don't QQ" and "Adapt, noob" is counter productive.

In all honesty the rampant deathmatching is a negative aspect of the game.

the negative death matching is a natural response to the situation, the game places us in setting and our natural response is to horde and anyone who is a threat gets taken out, its even better if the add to our horde

right now we are essentially hunter/gatherers in our small tribes running around the servers, until we reach the civillisation stage this will remani the norm, the beginings of the civilisation we can already see, the number of proposed trading companies, medic corps, and other ideas for player controlled and ruled safe(ish) zones are on the increase and they are starting to appear ingame

its gonan be a transisitional period many will pop up and implode but others will start and stay and the more that make it the more will form and it ill begin to snowball, although there will always be bandits, the bandits will atatck them, the bandits will try to increase thier own strength by taking the toys of others

[shagohad 124]

I really don't get the attitude of these posts

"im sick to death of being killed by other players on the coast - SO IM GONNA KILL EVERYONE ON THE COAST"

the great thing about this game is that the community or players drives every cool part of it, therefore this mindset of murdering survivors is a system that has developed for whatever reason within this community

therefore THE ONLY WAY to stop this is to act as a member in the community in a way which you would like to see others behave

you really have nothing to lose on the coast (nothing you can't get back in 15 minutes)

so try diplomacy, try to help survivors

banditry is only really fun inland anyways, its no fun playing low stakes poker

cheers

[n3burgener 0]

The greatest thing about Day Z is that you can't trust other players because you don't know what their intentions are -- it's the tension of not knowing if someone will be friendly or not, and trying to decide how you should handle the situation. With people shooting on sight, you don't have time to feel any tension because the moment of conflict goes by in a flash without any sort of build-up. With everyone taking a "shoot on sight" stance for self-defense, assuming that everyone is a bandit and would do the same to you, you lose out on the psychological dilemma and the game essentially becomes a simple, straightforward PVP shooter, when it has the potential to be so much more nuanced than that if people didn't simply shoot on sight.

[lovetocamp 1]

My policy is shoot anything with a gun or axe on their back. You never know when an axe maniac will try to sneak up on you. I don't shoot unarmed though even though I took out a freshly spawn team of 4 unarmed once because they could have been a problem later.

[internetTAB (DayZ) 76]

i love how accurately dayZ reveals humanity's douchebaggery.

I understand the wanting to shoot on sight because you got fucked over, I've been killed many times for no good reason. But never goto the dark side. The hardest game to play in DayZ is the nice guy game :)

[sm00tje 88]

I understand the wanting to shoot on sight because you got fucked over, I've been killed many times for no good reason. But never goto the dark side. The hardest game to play in DayZ is the nice guy game :)

This

[TheKozmonaut 0]

I'm not going to shoot anyone unprovoked, but I'm not going to offer my help either.

KoS unprovoked is just unnatural for me as a human being, it's not something I would do IRL, so I don't do it ingame. There are other, more immersive ways of surviving, for me.

Agreed. I would honestly rather get shot and killed 100 times by the cowards before I turn into one.

[BlksnshN 127]

I just spent the better part of three hours purposely running around unarmed or with a hatchet only trying to be friendly with people. I was shot and killed six times. All while trying to talk to people on the mic. I wish I could walk around giving the salute. I've only heard one person speak in this game so far and and all he said was, "See ya niggah!" as he ran away.

So I went back to camp, grabbed a gun and joined the murderous masses.

[:VADER: 88]

no one calls out anymore, not even to say fuck off im looting this building if you enter i will shoot you. I've ran into buildings and bumped into guys in full gear and get dropped on the spot, the fact they know i can't even defend myself is kinda disturbing at times. players are so gutless so its like a breath of fresh air when someone you see does not engage in conflict. I warn players of snipers and offer to do transfusions all the time.

[DirtyDuckling 13]

In my opinion. As stated by internetTAB. 90% of humanity is douschebags.. They achieve their supposed fame by taming that side of themselves. Though you give them ability to let that portion speak wildly. Then you get the resulted "CoD" gamers. Or 90% of xbox live. When you provide no consequence to your actions. You will act how your inner thoughts portray you to be as a person. Very very few hold on to mortality along with the common respect that is due to a living creature existing. It is the same concept as most hunters that don't make use of what they kill. They kill because they can or for social notoriety. You ultimately decide who you want to be. If you tried to be friendly and then decided to be non-friendly. That is more so because you didn't want to be friendly in the first place. You decide your approach to other player interaction. Same goes with the current day military. The military lets all kinds of people in. Though few actually earned the right to be in. Douschebags are everywhere. You just have to do the rest of a favor and not lower yourself to their level.

[Sonblade (DayZ) 11]

Until ammunition, food, and medical supplies actually become rare, 9/10 players will keep playing DM. It's just too easy to reach 'end game' equipment currently. One trek up north will net you at the minimum one high-end military weapon with more than a little ammo to spare, either by the Barracks or by a crashed helicopter. If/When the drop rate for non-replenishable resources is made very low, I'd expect people who try to play DM to run out of ammo, then keel over and die in the woods from starvation since they have no one to help them. I'm at least hoping that the high drop rates for everything is just to test them (see: Ghillie/Camo breaking all the time, L85 disappearing) and isn't permanent.

[noobfun 87]

Until ammunition, food, and medical supplies actually become rare, 9/10 players will keep playing DM. It's just too easy to reach 'end game' equipment currently.

god i love people and how they say stuff, the complete opposite is true but they run with it anyway

right now ill kill you becasue your a threat, take away 1/2 my weaponry and ammo and now im gonan kill ya A) becasue your still a threat and B) becasue now i deffinatley need what your carrying

your average death matcher is happy sat on a roof top in churno with a lee enfield, how is this top end gear?

also by upping the scarcety the chances of someone grouping then killing you when your backs turned will increase significantly (you use less ammo with a 5 meter head shot and an axe costs no ammo) or grouping and stealing crap from others backpacks

i joined the game realised that the start gear was crap (this was when we had starting gear) so soon as i found somthing running the death match that was churno/electro i really really wanted to keep itso killed anyone that moved in my direction, the game maximises the fear of loss of gear, even more so now you start with nothing, but the starting with nothing means your not getting attacked by EVERYONE from the second you spawn. this game maximises fear of loss

what your actually talkign about is 3 distinct groups but trying to treat them as 1 problem with 1 solution

1)highend gear users, with the duping exploits so prevelent (you can do them by accident not just on purpose) once youve farmed up enough gear once you can potentially dupe up the same gear over and over so you need to spend zero time rebuilding your gear so doign random crap like sniping noobs becasue a passtime

2)score board warriors, they have adopted the name bandit and wear it with pride although all they really care about is kill scores, they are just as happy sitting in electro hills with a lee enfield as sprinting around NWAF trying to increase thier kill count

3)average player, dosent want to loose thier gear, realsies shooting you for yours is almost totally a posative sum game

ill leave out hackers even though they make up a high percentage of the sniper overwatch on churno electro

saying x will fix all 3 problems in one easy go is the same as saying 'ok need to sort my car, the battery is flat, its missing a tire and the clutch is shot, therfore if i change the oil it will all be perfect'

creating a geater fear of loss of gear will just drive more people to kill on sight just in more imaginative ways that use less ammo, so a sharp rise in hatchett men and cuckoo bandits is all you will achieve with this

1.reducing duping(i know its ongoing) will increase the time people have to spend getting geared

2.removing scores may help with the scoreboard warriors but rocket likes his stats so that may not happen

3. there really is no solution to this, when we started with guns we used them from the second we hit the beach, now we dont have guns theres a delay bewtenn us turning into murderous bastards which actually gives you a chance to find someone freshly spawned to team up with. but make weapons and other stuff to hard to find and the one guy with an axe is king and will kill everyone for the gear becaasue it becomes just that valuable

[The True Nova 22]

I think enough discussion on this topic. No matter how much you talk about bandits and the mindset of people, until the vast majority of the community can agree not to SoS (shoot on sight) you have no way of limiting it. End of story, accept the facts and these are it.

Edited July 29, 2012 by The True Nova

[markevens 15]

You don't think it is unrelated to the huge influx of players from the Steam Sale?

[The True Nova 22]

Well, actually I believe the existing playerbase was already like this and when the new fountain of players came in, it was adopted by them through example.

[Elo 44]

People ran out of stuff to do, so they start DM'ing

[noobfun 87]

People ran out of stuff to do, so they start DM'ing

we were death matching on the beachs with spawn issued macarovs back in 1.6.1.x ...

my first ever life i was getting shot at on the beach, and in town by people with nothing but starting equipment, not sure your conclussions are in anyway accurate or portray what the game has been like for a very very long time

[Colditz 54]

You know it's true, I'm sorry for your experience with DayZ lately. Problem is, they way I see it Dean Hall doesn't give a shit about the deathmatching going on, he thinks it's realistic and even goes as far as to insulting people that think otherwise. *clapclap* I remember back when DayZ was "fresh" that people used to help out each other, I even made a few friends that I still play with from time to time, but for now... I hold my guns tightly to my body and I usually kill people I think are a danger to me/my group. But I'm not a dick that kills freshly spawned players with nothing but a damn hatchet, I get absolutely nothing from killing them either... just the remorse of killing a helpless individual that is going to get pissed at the community even more and turn into a bloodlusty chernarussian serial-killer like all the others.

TL;DR

[Obsolescence 129]

Killing a man for another tin of beans when you're not even short on food yourself is something a psychopath would do, he sees two options, get extra beans and not get extra beans, so he kills the guy simply because he'd rather have the beans and doesn't see any downside. This is because he lacks empathy with his victim. Sure a zombie apocalypse would probably bring out the psychopath in many people, but people don't just start being psychopaths because their lives are in danger, that's not how human beings function.

Almost all societies have had taboos against killing without justification.

I don't see the problem. In the scenario you describe you do have a justification. The victim has a tin of beans! For all you know you will round the next corner and take a bullet to the chest and need every scrap of food you can find to recover blood. Thankfully you murdered that innocent nooblet who only had a can of beans cause that means +200 blood for you. I shoot anytime I meet someone in close quarters or with a gun at any threatening range. If you don't want me to shoot you, great! Please stay out of my visual area and I promise I won't shoot you.

[FrankFisher 46]

Today I came across 3 players that saw me, they all walked on. Shows you there are some people that arn't in it for the PVP.