The Bandit Dilemma: An Inner Look at the Economics and Psychology of Banditry and the Inevitable Collapse of Day Z

[Road Dogg 0]

Honestly one thing I think would help keep rampant banditry down a little bit is locking gear to servers much the way you do tents because this way friendly players could band together and create a "police" force one that reacts to reports of bandit camps and moves to clear them out. Because are you going to log into a server where you are the noob or the server where you are the predator if you have the choice? Also perhaps log out position as well so "ghosting" into a defended area to surpise the defenders isn't a viable tactic.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Road Dogg

[Valtiel (DayZ) 6]

I kill other players because I'm bored and there is nothing wrong with that.

However, I do agree that things need to changed or added to not only give incentive to team up but as well as just add more content to the game, more things to do.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Valtiel

[rome 58]

I kill other players because I'm bored and there is nothing wrong with that.

Unfortunately thats exactly what my group does as soon as we are geared up.

The pattern here could be summed up as follow :

1/ From the beach. Get back to your friend, or make youself some new one if you don't have any.

INTENSE and very exciting moments.

2/Get some gear. Loot dangerous places with your friends. Try to survive Tcherno/any town, and get to the woods.

VERY INTENSE. To me it is the core of the game.

3/You now can survive in the woods. Your group go look for Airfields/Barracks/HeliCrash/Vehicule.

Late Game. Interesting and pretty intense as you dont want to lose your gear.

But unfortunately it is often just a matter of "Avoid the Snipers Bullets/server hoppers".

4/Your group survived and you managed to make a Camp.

From now on you will get BORED.

Your group will organize some operations in hospitals. You will search for vehicule parts.

BUT THEN IT WILL STRIKE YOU. ONE MEMBER OF YOUR GROUP WILL SAY " Lets go have some fun in Tcherno?" And you will go get some Pvp excitements.

Your group will kill anyone and anything in Tcherno because you just need the STRESS and INTENSITY you all once experimented. Usually this ends up with you dying and going back to point 1/ .

Rinse and repeat.

Edited July 22, 2012 by RastaKoueR

[morimasa 3]

I think OP's got the right idea here. I agree on that banditry will only escalate and become uncontrollable. I don't see any incentive to be good in this game at all.

When I first started I tried to be friendly to everyone and had a lot of ideas about friendly team play and bigger goals in game. But due to many reasons be it hack, exploits, bug, and nevertheless banditry there just seems to be no reason to play nice with anyone you don't know in real life. There is the huge issue of trust in this game. In other games it is simplified by guaranteed protection such as a default team/alliance, trade screens, flags for PvP, friendly fire regulations, and even simply the ability to fled or not die so easily. Here in DayZ, you have so much to lose but so little to gain when you cooperate with strangers.

For example like your story of Bob working with that stranger to fix a car, what do you think would happen next? They won't be satisfied to just roam around inside a car. Are they going to take turns driving? Would the stranger not mind Bob suck at driving and crashing the car? The outcome of their cooperation only leads to conflict and ultimately the death of the two players. They'd also have one other thing in common in the end - they would cease to trust others in the future. As for Bob not being able to fix the car himself; he could just wait until someone fixed the car and kill those who fixed it with bonus loot. Now Bob has a brand new car he can ride around town - or he could use it as a trap and... You see where I'm going though.

It's the system that needs to improve before we would stop the mindless killing.

I also agree on your prediction of ultimate collapse of DayZ, but it felt unnecessary. All games rise and fall, once a game cease to be fun for someone they'd quit, the hype don't last forever. I had a lot more to say about shooting players for thrill but I'm scared that people might not take it lightly... But I will say this, there is always the ultimate reason behind each action - and it is 'pleasure/joy', which is the pushing force of everything in life lol.

[propain666 7]

Honestly one thing I think would help keep rampant banditry down a little bit is locking gear to servers much the way you do tents because this way friendly players could band together and create a "police" force one that reacts to reports of bandit camps and moves to clear them out.

A private hive instead of the normal one seems to be the solution to the murdering "problem". No serverhopping for gear and kills = Less "pointless" murders while people still kill eachother just like they should be doing.

I belive this will be how DayZ develops, more private servers and hives where people can customize the experince of the game to their liking without the micromanagement from the DayZ devs.

[Arseassin 10]

Heres my 2c.

I play with an avoidance policy. I avoid anyone I see unless certain criteria come into play.

If I am in cherno, looting up, and I hear gunfire, I am attracted to it, like all players. I like to investigate whats going on. Whenever I find the source of the gunfire, I do my best to observe from a safe distance, several things about my subject. I take note of their pack, weapon loadout, and most importantly, how they are playing. If I see someone camping in an apartment block just watching the door for more than 2-3 minutes, I presume them to be hostile, and eliminate them. If I see someone sitting on a rooftop for more than a minute or two, I presume them hostile, and eliminate them. Basically, if anyone appears to be hunting other players, or if they are in any position that makes them an immediate threat to me, I shoot first and ask questions later.

However I do quite often let people go, either A because they appear to be going on their way, not hunting players, or B I am within extremely close proximity to them, have an advantageous position/weaponry, and I can talk to them on comms and let them know I'm there and not to f*** with me. The B option has, in many instances, made the other players respond asking for help/companionship, to which I happily oblige. However when there are more than 1 player in any given situation, if I myself am playing solo, I make very sure I am in an extremely safe position, and wait for them to pass. If I am with other players I will approach them and attempt friendly interaction, however it is almost always a bad idea to do so.

Late game it comes down to this, if you are well geared and someone gets the drop on you, you deserve to be killed. It would seem most logical to me that the people who would actually survive an extinction event such as a zombie apocalypse, would do so because of their ability to adapt. So if the problem of bandits arises, these survivors become ghosts, assassins, and members of skilled groups of individuals.

The only threat I see to the game right now is hackers, they can absolutely ruin an entire server in a matter of seconds. I would be happy trying to sneak through a cherno with 40 bandits if the alternative was dealing with 1 hacker.

Bandits are a part of the game, just like criminals and thugs are a part of everyday life. In real life, thugs and criminals gather in the trashier areas of the city, and proceed to waste their lives being nobodies until they manage to get caught doing something stupid, and go to jail.

In the game, bandits will ultimately be out-manned and out-gunned by survivors, because survivors, and by survivors I mean the people who ACTUALLY survive more than 2 hours at a time, know how to deal with bandits quickly and efficiently.

Look at it from a bandits perspective: A bandit, or group of bandits, may decide to open fire on a lone survivor or group of survivors. If it is a lone bandit, he will usually be killed by any other bandits in the area, or any survivors in the targets group. If it is a group of bandits, they will eventually be eradicated by another group of bandits, die to a group of survivors, or ultimately get bored and head to cherno, thus leaving the survivors room to survive.

I can tell you with full confidence that I have no fear of a single bandit, or group of bandits. No one is going to be able to hunt me effectively because I am always on the lookout, always doing things to throw any would-be tails off, and more importantly, I am always hunting anyone who appears to be hunting anyone else. Banditry has its perks, and so does pacifism, the people who actually survive are those who manage to kill players who are threatening, and avoid those who are not. In the end, bandits do not win, and pacifists dont win, survivors do.

[asbrazier@gmail.com 9]

"The Bandit Dilemma"

"the Inevitable collapse of Day Z"

Hyperbolic garbage.

DayZ is a PvP game. Anyone who thinks this game has sold the hundreds of thousands of copies it has recently because people want to crawl on their bellies scavenging from zombies is wrong, wrong, wrong.

DayZ has some of the most exhilarating PvP ever created. There is only one other game you can look at to measure success when it comes to this open PvP ruleset and that's Eve and that's doing just fine..

The overwhelming population want to shoot each other, almost all the time. If the game went back to the bandit skin now, people would still be shooting everyone.

Edited July 22, 2012 by omfgitsfrag

[A Bush killed me 189]

nerf zombies not bandits. If i get my leg broken and killed one more time with 9500 health ima snap. I can deal with ppl shooting me , not super zombies.

[gizm0 96]

"The Bandit Dilemma"

"the Inevitable collapse of Day Z"

Hyperbolic garbage.

DayZ is a PvP game. Anyone who thinks this game has sold the hundreds of thousands of copies it has recently because people want to crawl on their bellies scavenging from zombies is wrong, wrong, wrong.

DayZ has some of the most exhilarating PvP ever created. There is only one other game you can look at to measure success when it comes to this open PvP ruleset and that's Eve and that's doing just fine..

The overwhelming population want to shoot each other, almost all the time. If the game went back to the bandit skin now, people would still be shooting everyone.

is there more to do in eve than just PVP?

[Catalogue 39]

DayZ

"One of the best sniper simulators created"

[A Bush killed me 189]

is there more to do in eve than just PVP?

is there more to do in eve than just PVP?

It would take 5 pages to list them all.

[gizm0 96]

It would take 5 pages to list them all.

exactly compare that to non-pvp aspects of dayz.

[Catalogue 39]

exactly compare that to non-pvp aspects of dayz.

I think you misread, He meant it would take 5 pages to list the things to do in Day Z other than pvp.

[Azrail (DayZ) 211]

tl:dr

players killing other players for whatever reason is the whole core part of this mod. sandbox.

[Divvy 5]

Zis topic ez best read in german accent.

[grrinc 7]

Another point to factor in is that most players do not seem to understand what bandits are.

A small example.....

Me and a buddy were heading for the hospital on the outskirts of Cherno. All the way, a ( lame ) sniper was taking pot shots at us. We get to the hospital, only to find a tent lure on the road outside. We know the sniper must be the flats or on a roof nearby, because he is still taking shots at us. I manage to spot him and we hatch a plan. Whilst I keep him busy and ensure his focus is on me, my buddy takes him out from the roof on the other side. Success - we got him. He is dead.

So. The server has side chat enabled. We get to see the guys reaction. And we are totally shocked to see this guy whinging about 'too many bandits', 'pvp is getting out of hand', 'this game sucks' etc. He spent the whole game camping on a roof with a tent lure, and bitches when it all went tits up. From his point of view, we were the problem with this game. All we wanted to do was sneak in and out with medical supplies.

[Vanchelon 10]

Been keeping track of DayZ stats on a weekly basis since 25th of June (back when we had ~300k unique).

The Survivor/Bandit ratio has remained fairly even, with a decrease coming with the huge wave of new players last week and a further decrease this week.

From the 25th of June to 22nd of July, the ratio has been:

18.15%

18.78%

18.44%

17.91%

17.68%

Edited July 22, 2012 by Vanchelon

[LumberBack 43]

what i find funny/sad is that the "griefers/trolls/bandits" dont realise that its thanks to them that there are so many hackers...

Been keeping track of DayZ stats on a weekly basis since 25th of June (back when we had ~300k unique).

The Survivor/Bandit ratio has remained fairly even, with a decrease coming with the huge wave of new players last week.

From the 25th of June to 22nd of July, the ratio has been:

15.36%

15.81%

15.57%

15.19%

15.22%

stats dont tell anything... ofcourse there are going to be more survivors listed, as bandits die a hell of a lot more(becasue they play deathmatch 24/7)...

Edited July 22, 2012 by LumberBack

[andy_uk15@hotmail.com 70]

Yeah... I physically shake when coming into conflict with another player....

Whether its me doing the shooting or getting shot at - it's one hell of an adrenaline rush! For that reason alone - its one of the most addictive aspects of DayZ. We all love that dash serotonin when scared for our characters lives, and the dopamine rush that comes from getting the kill... That reward sensation is intensified when we loot a players corpse....

You ask why people KoS? You look for the logical reasoning? There is none.... We LOVE IT! In DayZ we're like dogs... We get conditioned into behaviours that have the greatest reward value.

No game has given me such an emotional roller-coaster ride.

Edited July 22, 2012 by ScramUK

[Vanchelon 10]

what i find funny/sad is that the "griefers/trolls/bandits" dont realise that its thanks to them that there are so many hackers...

stats dont tell anything... ofcourse there are going to be more survivors listed, as bandits die a hell of a lot more(becasue they play deathmatch 24/7)...

posted the wrong numbers, fixed it now.

In any case, it all depends on how they classify bandits in the stats on the main page... Is it anyone with 1 murder? 2? etc, we don't know :)

The actual ratio should be mostly isolated when it comes to who dies the most tho, as it's based on current alive characters.

If you go by attempts vs murders, the rates end up around 15% aswell, but those are even harder to interpret.

Considering how woefully inaccurate the "murder" stat is to begin with... It makes it even harder to judge banditry on stats. By that I mean, it doesn't take into regard the circumstances. Most of my murders in DayZ come from shooting people who shot at me first, but nonetheless it counts as a murder and probably makes the game consider me a bandit ^^

But going by angry forum posts is by no means a better judge of the extent of banditry...

Edited July 22, 2012 by Vanchelon

[derailed000 20]

It doesnt matter how many threads are created about this topic. The options are that some people come together and host their own password protected server with ban on players killing other players. The other option is if a game update will be released so that one that host a server can enable pvp areas and the rest is pve zones (not likely to happen). Trying to reach out to people that likes to snipe, shoot and put an axe in someones face is like telling MS to convert to open source.

Edited July 22, 2012 by derailed000

[Neek (DayZ) 53]

I enjoyed reading that. I'd give you my beans but tapatalk doesn't have beans.

[hombrecz 832]

Very nic thread, thanks.

I do hope that Rocket will add more and more features & stuff to do.

What might also help a bit if EVE online gets some expansion and so many of these KOS lunatics go back to where they came from ie. griefing people in "secure" sectors because they get enjoyment only if it ruins someone else's day.

[Demonize 15]

Military equipment is ruining this game. I've played this game _a lot_ and the zombie survival is just too easy. Zombies aren't even remotely dangerous, even if you haven't got any weapons.. The problem really is how much of an advantage snipers and military equipment give you. You are forced to get those items in order to survive PvP encounters.

I don't care about the realism with military equipment, remove it.

Remove most military equipment.

Fix the zombies. Make them TWD style.

Weapons should be rare and ammunition even more rare. Shotguns and hunting rifles should be the ultimate weapons, and they should be very inaccurate on longer distances.

Wasting lead on a survival should have major consequences. The gunshot should attract a horde of zombies and force you on the move.

Make survival harder.

Make cooperation more beneficial.

[Vipeax 318]

I was very surprised by the statistics. It is definitely worth having a look at. I do feel that the influx of new players would contribute to an atypical sample, but it is still solid evidence against my theory.

The stats aren't entirely bashing your theory ;). I think many people see someone who kills another player as a bandit. They're not.

I've said this before:

Please keep in mind that in order to become a bandit you have to get a low humanity. Your humanity rises both from time and giving blood bags. The fact that people don't trust each other is something that both the community and the game can work on. Going by all the latest Q&A interviews I think it's fair to say that some system to make it easier to communicate with friends is likely to happen, at the same time 2 people not trusting each other is an entirely different issue and situation over people who only play to murder. If you are a person who plays this game to kill people, you WILL become a bandit as you will hit way beyond the minimum # of kills required in a certain time frame if you try to hunt people down.

The low bandit numbers don't indicate that you can roam around freely and have an ~80% chance of not being shot, what they do indicate is that over 75% isn't in the game to hunt and murder everyone they see 1 to 2 miles ahead, which I think is a fair indication that banditry is not an issue, trust is.

The problem is that the options are limited in the mod-phase of the game. Once extra features come in, like tunneling (and you can start setting up a Metro2033-like underground city), I'm sure you can start working on coming to agreements with other settlements and only become really threatened moving from underground hub X to underground hub Y, as the bandits are likely to hide in the tunnels somewhere. There are other features, like power generators and all that, which will likely end up with similar situations making being friendly and cooperating worth it over killing the other person for his gear. In essence some private hive servers will already have this future, saying they are really awesome that they got it working before the real DayZ servers, while all they did was go to this link --> http://forums.bistud...-Pack-and-Addon ;).

In the current stage of the mod there aren't many reasons on why you'd want to friend up, but over time that will change, without nerfing bandits, but by giving the survivors a good reason to survive, by teamwork.