new feature: military

[Duckman404 37]

This could work, if NPC AI wasn't hopelessly bad.

I've played through plenty of ARMA 2 domination games online, and a convoy of five or six enemy AI in humvees can easily be taken out by anyone with decent aim and the element of surprise.

[crazyshadowdami 1]

What about this? No ground force, too risky. What about periodic sweeps from NPC gunships over heavily populated areas? They'll clear the streets of zeds for a while but finding hard cover to avoid them is a must because they will engage any and all targets.

DIS i aggre with. u know shit gets real when you are looting a town, and a mi-28 appears over your head, with 2 minigun gunners on each side....

[RunningScared 4]

The premise is simple, somewhere in this world there is still a structured social organization, and they decide to do something about the situation in chernarus.

but instead of trying to save the people there, they have a simple mission: wipe out and purge of any single trace of life on the area, shoot ANYTHING on sight and kill everyone, doesn't matter if they are infected or survivors.

and so, a gigantic military encampment is set on the lopatino airfield in chernarus, deploying all kinds of war machines and military equipment, with the sole objective to exterminate the locals in the area.

They move in patrols all over the wasteland, they do indeed harness a lot of valuable equipment but they're organized, they have more information and better weapons.

So as a survivor, now you also have to worry not only about zombies, bandits and high altitudes, but also deadly military patrols all over the place, and if you dare go against them, they will track you down and assassinate you.

technical aspects:

- introduce a military npc only faction, shouldn't be too hard considering arma 2.

- they patrol all over chernarus in quite big groups, and will engage anyone on sight, they will stay away from coast areas.

- they have the rarest equipment available in large quantities (gps, rare guns)

- anyone who kills a soldier gets a bounty on them and are more propense to face patrols.

there are so many more possibilities to add depth to the game...

Day Z is about making your own story.

Not following one that you conjured up in your head, to be dictated to the entire populace.

It is an organic game, the highest level of RPG, and if they did things like you are saying, it would ruin the game in every way, shape, and form.

P.S. why use artificial intelligence for our main opponents instead of real intelligence for our main opponents?

An AI military force of 100 marines is not as scary as one single human intelligence sitting in the shadows of your next turn.

Edited July 27, 2012 by RunningScared

[RapturJesus 90]

I like the idea. I would like for them to make weapons more rare before doing this though. To make the feeling of "OH GOD THEY HAVE GUNS" more common. If they did squads now it would be more like "They have guns? Who cares. *pew pew pew*"

[S3V3N 1402]

Running Scared - you sound like you are growing vegetables, not like your playing the same game I do (organic, etc). There is no story, there are random encounters which produce short episodes of memorable moments. Story is something that has a beginning, a peak and an ending - which is absent in dayz.

I agree that there should be story driven by players, but just like supermarkets are a tool to encourage exploration, there has to be a solid ground that allows for player-driven story to develop. That is something only a professional writer can bring to the game, because every good story adheres to a couple of ground principles. There are only the foundations for story in Dayz at the moment, but it needs more tools to write truly great and epic tales. This will also make the scope of experience wider and make every experience truly unique.

How it can be done? Read here:

http://dayzmod.com/f...matter-of-time/

Edited July 27, 2012 by S3V3N

[RunningScared 4]

Running Scared - you sound like you are growing vegetables, not like your playing the same game I do (organic, etc). There is no story, there are random encounters which produce short episodes of memorable moments. Story is something that has a beginning, a peak and an ending - which is absent in dayz.

I agree that there should be story driven by players, but just like supermarkets are a tool to encourage exploration, there has to be a solid ground that allows for player-driven story to develop. That is something only a professional writer can bring to the game, because every good story adheres to a couple of ground principles. There are only the foundations for story in Dayz at the moment, but it needs more tools to write truly great and epic tales. This will also make the scope of experience wider and make every experience truly unique.

How it can be done? Read here:

http://dayzmod.com/f...matter-of-time/

Yes, growing vegetables is what it is like.

Completely natural!

When you throw in some human dictated factions/stories you lose the organic nature of the game, it impedes the ability for people to create there own story or for player made faction to develop, if some writer sets up the faction, they steal the ability for the players to creatre their own, if some writer draws the line in the sand, it steals from the players to decide how the game develops.

Why make this gem of a game like every other game? Let the players control the world in their own way, let police forces form for certain cities, let trading posts be set up, let a totaly organic system develop the idea of a "trader" how they operate and how they trade completely run by people, from security of the goods, to transport of the goods.

The less they add to this game as it is the better, as it is already super fun to play, why do you think so many people are playing? Because what we have right here is awesome!

Edited July 27, 2012 by RunningScared

[TheGantoo 25]

+1, and they should have a change to drop loot or give humvee's. ^^

[Maeert 0]

If the Arma AI is so bad, is there any way to improve it?

Where did the infected AI came from?

Could an improved AI be implemented in a mod?

Anyone knows about stuff like that?

[enforcer1975 1111]

I'd never send a squad of soldiers on foot to deal with a threat on the ground, i'd just send some russian bombers and nuke the place. End of story, suggestion is just bad and a lame excuse to get your hands on military equipment. Go play vanilla if you want to have military stuff.

[CHOSENMARINE 43]

I'm already paranoid enough with other people... Adding highly trained groups of well armed men trying to hunt me down at all times is too much. And it would be totally unfair, they would easily kill anyone they found. Plus, it makes absolutely no sense that they would do that, what do they hope to accomplish sending groups of guys out there? Not only that, but I could see other problems emerging, what if they went into the middle of a large town? Zombies would kill them all very quickly, and you would be left with that amazing equipment just lying there for the taking.

I think some kind of small scale military involvement would be really cool, but not like this.

[S3V3N 1402]

actually, forget it... there simply won't be more NPCs. If you ever played Arma II you know the AI feels quite mechanic. It fits well with zombies, which is why DayZ is so good. What is not so good about it is the lack of discussion for new features. Game Developers must love this situation. They spawn a few items and everyone says: go make your own game. It's like giving scissors to babies and telling them to run.

Edited July 27, 2012 by S3V3N

[duddbudda 33]

If you ever played Arma II you know the AI feels quite mechanic

so you've never seen Zeus mod? with a couple simple fixes (basically the AI pay more attention to their surroundings) ARMA's AI is free to show itself off, and it's superb

They spawn a few items and everyone says: go make your own game. It's like giving scissors to babies and telling them to run

I've seen you offering your services as a dev, but you clearly don't understand DayZ's design philosophy and in your ignorance you hate the game

if you loathe it so much, just leave

[S3V3N 1402]

Sandy, you're funny.You just argue against anything I have to say, right? Now you are even pro AI, lol. Change your mind often? No, i have not seen or ever heard of Zeus mod, but if you have any idea of game design you will know that the AI is always one of the biggest problems. The true question is does Dayz need more AI, not if it is possible to make it slightly better. AI will always suck, unless it is a zombie or flies a plane.

If Rocket and the developers of this game thought it would be enough to hand you guns and beans, they would surely have stopped thinking about further developments half a year ago. Believe it or not, but I am learning with every mistake I make, and I admit I made quite a few in judgement of the game. I still have to play more, since I'm only one week old, in total. However, my mind and imagination is wildly at work and I will never dismiss an idea, until it is utterly destroyed and made pointless by a number of valid arguments. I like to hear both sides of an argument, but so far, I have seen zero thought going into discussion from players like you and all those "you just want another COD" babies. I'd like you to make better suggestions than to say "leave everything as it is" and rain shit on everyone, who actually does care about the future of the game.

It is in Alpha and due to change. Whatever it is you care about now, will most likely not make up the entire experience when the game goes gold. Be prepared for change, whether you like it or not.

Edited July 28, 2012 by S3V3N

[duddbudda 33]

What I care about now, Seven, is that DayZ is, as Rocket put it, a 'player defined world'.

What I most want for the finished product, is to see DayZ, as Rocket put it, 'not compromise being a player defined world'

use your oh-so active mind to approach 'AI death squads' from that ethos

hopefully you can now see why

this suggestion gets zero support from me, precisely because there are already military death squads and they're played by real people

is a valid rebuttal? incidentally, that's a counter that has not been effectively addressed in this, or any other identical, thread

as for my lack of creative suggestions and tendency to criticise others' suggestions:

I cannot support anything that

+ diminishes DayZ's uniquely unrestrained player agency and self-determinism/'compromises DayZ's player defined world'

+ simplifies or handholds players' interactions with their environment or other players

+ wounds the authenticity of the experience

+ belittles or ad hominems Rocket, his design, ARMA or any of the devs involved in either project***

+ creates a mechannic implying value judgements (sorry, it's late, I've had a couple G&Ts and I don't quite know how to put that, cf my posts on mental illness http://dayzmod.com/f...-mental-health/ and http://dayzmod.com/f..._40#entry326280)

honestly stricture your imagination within such traces - if you're still overflowing with ideas then you're a genius and need to be recruited by Bathesda liek nao omg.

Truth is, you say your mind is 'wildly at work', doubtless a fecund bed of ideas, but, like the rest of every suggestion forum for every game ever, that wildness needs taming; a rabbi once told me that a thing's boundaries define the thing, which is a [word for a phrase that appears profound but is condemned by its circular logic as meaningless, c'mon it's 3am and I'm drinking gin and bitter lemon] worth bearing in mind when designing anything.

But the thing is, Seven, nobody cares for criticism. Yeah, in part that's why I play critic [someone's gotta do it and I don't care if a forum avatar is unpopular] but has unfortunate ramifications: if I lay out each step like an essay, arguing from first principles and collecting evidence at every point, I waste my time - this is a suggestion forum, and someone always comes along and says 'hurr durr either make suggestions or shut up'. In academic circles, that would be regarded as the defense of an imbecile incapable argument, but on the internet it's totally valid.

Which is a shame, but who cares, it's only the internet, and it's easier to shitpost like everyone else.

So I boil my arguments down to the key points, hope anyone reading it has the nouce to assemble the framework themselves, and if I get ignored or condemned for my attitude, well shit, it's no skin off my nose.

Which is why I'm responding to you: you didn't ignore me (even though I was being a douche) and you seem like a genuine chap (even if you were being a douche, cf: ***). And shit, I've been waiting nearly three hours to play some W:EE with a chap stuck on one campaign mission, so I may as well kill some time polishing my tarnished cynic's facade.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Sandy

[S3V3N 1402]

I see. I knew you were just hiding your true genius and waiting to be provoked :) I'm sure, if you actually made the effort you could come up with some better ideas than me. The problem with you is just that you are afraid to try, because it may turn out someone comes along and smart asses you, like you did me.

Do yourself a favor and try. Life will get better and the self-loathing will stop. We both love the game, we can argue all day who loves it more: the guy who dismisses all ideas and conserves his time. Or the guy who has a lot of stupid ideas and tries to learn from being stupid at the onset. Ask that your Rabbi the next time you meet. Shalom.

Edited July 28, 2012 by S3V3N

[Kyle747 2]

love this idea it would add whole new depth to teamwork and just so much more to the game great idea you have my beans

[pieflavor 38]

I keep receiving notifications of people "liking" this thread and I know that cannot be more far from the truth, so I guess I'll need to address this thread again.

I'm in two minds about this idea now, on one hand, I always dreamed of a good PvE experience and seeing how you start with zero stuff and must work your way up I see no reason why not to implement further challenges to the game, on the other hand though, this might interfere with the freedom a player has in the sense of making their own story as pointed out several times already.

The thing is, the entire game doesn't need to revolve around this new feature, see minecraft, there is an optional challenge called "the end" that doesn't interfere the slightest with the sandbox nature of the game (maybe a bit, but not much) the entire game doesn't focus solely on you needing to reach the end, as much as providing you with several different blocks for you to build stuff with.

To the guy suggesting bombing the entirety of Chernarus as a solution to everything, say one of the crashed choppers contains a highly valuable artifact the military are trying to recover, it has a small sensor on it that the soldiers are using to track it down, as a player you might accidentally stumble upon it or acquire one of the trackers from the soldiers and find it, but you have no use for it, therefore all you would do is to attract the attention of the military, this would both give an excuse not to exterminate with nuclear weapons as well as adding a backstory that doesn't necessarily interfere with player freedom.