Third person vs First person view

[herd 69]

maybe as a compromise when in 3rd person view you shouldn't be able to have your gun out and when you switch back to 1st person it re-equips it. this way it cant be used for any pvp gain but also you can still use it to get from A to B.

Just hide the CH. Problem solved

[tulkor 9]

BIS made a statement somewhere about how they put in 3rd person because it allowed for situational awareness. Your vision isn't restricted to what you see in front of you in real life, and the only way BIS could give you the same situational awareness that 3rd person gives you.

I prefer to know what's going on around me, so I use 3rd person. Others may prefer 1st person, and that's their choice. Don't take mine away from me.

Very good point. Situational awareness is down heavily in 1st person mode. Sure you can look around but if you are not looking you are often clueless to what is going on outside of your vision. Trust me...I would love to play in 1st person more and I do sometimes. However, I tend to notice framerate drops more so when in 1st person than 3rd.

Luckily on servers that only allow 1st person...everyone is at the same disadvantage.

[Lukio (DayZ) 24]

OP check link in my sig

/close or /merge or /dowhateveryouwantmods

[chickenfeed 17]

No. Sorry but in real life my vision isn't restricted to a small box in front of my eyes, so no, first person in this game isn't very realistic imo.

I agree there are problems with exploiting of 3DP, but I enjoy the game more in 3DP and I don't want to get a headache whenever I play, because I'm restricted to viewing a little square box that bounces up and down all the time.

Turn off head bob, no more bouncing up and down. Also you can zoom out for a more realistic FOV without resorting to seeing around corners/over walls, which is the issue with 3rd person.

[ytman18@gmail.com 9]

Fellas,just play on veteran servers.Leave the 3rd person for people that like it.Simple really. ;)

Of the 500+ servers only a handful advertise that they have 3dp off. There are no more than 100 3dp off servers, veteran or not.

3rd Person is a crutch and I will prove it. I will actively and indiscriminately murder anyone I find on a 3rd person server. I'm not a regular player killer but the bs of 3rd person needs to be dealt with. One bullet at a time.

=====

There could be a theoretical solution. 3rd person is disabled when prone and inside/near buildings. Still I feel that I have great situational awareness in 1st person and that people who don't have it and must use 3rd person are weak persons on crutches that need to be kicked from under them.

Edited August 1, 2012 by ytman

[WiFiN 55]

Okay, so I can see now that half of the community still want to have third person, no matter it lets you to cheat by looking over the walls and around the corners. This is wrong int the game where stealth is critical.

1. So a simple solution would be to fix it in elevation - this way you still have full situational awareness, but you can't UAV over fences and other obstacles. It can be either fixed in elevation or can folow terrain, so if you go uphill, it will look up a bit and when you descend it will follow you down. The crosshair should be free in movement though (but I wouldn't shoot from third person if I were you anyway).

2. Second way might be quite resource-intensive. You know, if you use a flashlight it lights up only the area it spills it's light on. What if everything that is not in your First person LOS would be blurred out while you're in third person? This way looking around the corners would be highly ineffective. I don't know how hard is that to implement such shader into the game.

Even a way to do it technically is suggested below. (I'im not very competent when it comes to rendering, but it sounds plausible)

Just render 3rd person view from the object occlusion data of the 1st person view frustum :D

EDIT:

3. If the question is about FOV - it can be done by changing the format of the screen - say, when you press "extended view" button, it adds cinematic black stripes on the top and the bottom of your screen and thus changes format from 3:4 to 16:9 or even more, so you could have wider view angle. It was done in Assassin's creed if I recall correct.

EDIT2:

Key or control to peek up bit when in prone to be able to see over grass or low obstacles.

- Binary type: press or hold one key character will raise his body bit with his arms and with Q and E you can peek also bit left and right.

- "Analog type": press or hold one key and adjust the amount of peeking with your mouse.

That can help with with prone third person exploit and fix the problems with tall grass.

Thoughts? Ideas?

Edited January 14, 2013 by WiFiN

[#Sleepy 572]

I've played games when your player is close to a wall or is against it the third person would zoom closer in on your player so you could see less.

[dekartz 315]

Interesting way of going about it. I could deal with this moreso than flat-out removing third person.

[Very Ape 748]

So a simple solution would be to fix it in elevation - this way you still have full situational awareness, but you can't UAV over fences and other obstacles. It can be either fixed in elevation or can folow terrain, so if you go uphill, it will look up a bit and when you descend it will follow you down. The crosshair should be free in movement though (but I wouldn't shoot from third person if I were you anyway).

Second way might be quite resource-intensive. You know, if you use a flashlight it lights up only the area it spills it's light on. What if everything that is not in your First person LOS would be blurred out while you're in third person? This way looking around the corners would be highly ineffective. I don't know how hard is that to implement such shader into the game.

First one's a no-brainer! I dearly hope we do see this, as it would make urban combat that much more intense. The one thing I really enjoy about third-person view is seeing your character, and being reminded of all the cool gear and clothing he's managed to acquire. It'd be nice if we could keep it, without affecting gameplay negatively like it does now.

Second one is also a very good idea. If you're standing with your nose pressed to a wall, it should blur everything else.

I wonder though, if this would apply to people who lie prone in the grass? It's obviously much less of a problem than people who use third person to hide behind walls.

[Azrail (DayZ) 211]

I wonder though, if this would apply to people who lie prone in the grass? It's obviously much less of a problem than people who use third person to hide behind walls.

people prone in grass are still abusing the same mechanic. they remain low profile, while at the same time can clearly see everything around them.

blurring wouldn't do the trick imo - the point is, with 3rdp you can spot people. and with blur you can still spot movement and guesstimate their location.

3rdp needs to be limited to your actual FOV, or be removed.

[Very Ape 748]

people prone in grass are still abusing the same mechanic. they remain low profile, while at the same time can clearly see everything around them.

blurring wouldn't do the trick imo - the point is, with 3rdp you can spot people. and with blur you can still spot movement and guesstimate their location.

3rdp needs to be limited to your actual FOV, or be removed.

Perhaps a blur that begins, say, thirty meters from you.

But without the option to peak your head up over the grass, it seems like 3rd person mode while prone is just making up for what the game mechanics can't provide.

There's no excuse for using 3rd person behind walls, however.

[MarcDaKind 37]

It's simple, remove third person!

The game will be so much better without it, but I'm forced to play on third person servers because those are the only full ones.

[DemonGroover 8836]

Of course, you could always play No 3rd person servers.

[MarcDaKind 37]

Of course, you could always play No 3rd person servers.

Yeah this guys is right, playing with 5 other people on a 225 square km map is fun!

[Bladez 0f Fury 33]

Don't remove third person. I CAN NOT stand ArmA in FP unless I am shooting in a prone or crouched position. I think third person is fine. Sure people can "Cheat" with it, but you are free to use it aswell. And hell, I've been playing this game (ArmA II) since it first released 3 years ago and I can't remember a single mission I used only FP or that I "cheated" with third person.

Stop bitching and play the game. Its fine how it is.

[DiazWaffleCrabstro 39]

Gaston, Op needs more brains, and some brawn removed. the best fix ever, play on a FPW only server.

[#Sleepy 572]

For all the people that "can't" play DayZ/ArmA in First Person try this.

-First person only server

-Head bob off or barley any

-Higher FOV (90+)

[Venick 6]

Don't remove third person. I CAN NOT stand ArmA in FP unless I am shooting in a prone or crouched position. I think third person is fine. Sure people can "Cheat" with it, but you are free to use it aswell. And hell, I've been playing this game (ArmA II) since it first released 3 years ago and I can't remember a single mission I used only FP or that I "cheated" with third person.

Stop bitching and play the game. Its fine how it is.

Alright, here is my understanding. Through some not-so-clever research, I found that ARMA is a tactical military simulation. It falls into the category of Tactical Shooter. This is defined as to, "simulate realistic combat," capable of first and third person views. Ultimately, tactical shooters are designed for realism.

Dean has shared, "At times I’ve called it an anti-game because when I designed it I felt like I was breaking a lot of the things as a game designer you were told to you need to do.” This lends itself to not making it easy by catering to the player. Dayz was never intended to be about player versus player. Hall has described it more of a social and emotional experiement.

"So really we have an opportunity which no studio in the world's got, which is to test out really radical game mechanics while having a huge audience." - Dean Hall

As radical as only playing in first person may seem, it's in the spirit of the game. I believe it's a game mechanic that needs to at least be tested, regardless of how many people disagree. If, only then, can you tell why first person ruins the idea behind the game.

Regarding No Third Person servers: They are much more difficult. They are not popular. And why I love third person. But we don't need this temptation. It goes beyond "cheating". It breaks the nature of the game; the sense of helplessness, immersive, and difficulty.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Venick

[Skat3rat 1633]

First one's a no-brainer! I dearly hope we do see this, as it would make urban combat that much more intense. The one thing I really enjoy about third-person view is seeing your character, and being reminded of all the cool gear and clothing he's managed to acquire. It'd be nice if we could keep it, without affecting gameplay negatively like it does now.

Second one is also a very good idea. If you're standing with your nose pressed to a wall, it should blur everything else.

I wonder though, if this would apply to people who lie prone in the grass? It's obviously much less of a problem than people who use third person to hide behind walls.

I agree with the being able to see your character. It's nice to be able to look at everything he has, gun, backpack, and if your a hero all the extra things.

Alright, here is my understanding. Through some not-so-clever research, I found that ARMA is a tactical military simulation. It falls into the category of Tactical Shooter. This is defined as to, "simulate realistic combat," capable of first and third person views. Ultimately, tactical shooters are designed for realism.

Dean has shared, "At times I’ve called it an anti-game because when I designed it I felt like I was breaking a lot of the things as a game designer you were told to you need to do.” This lends itself to not making it easy by catering to the player. Dayz was never intended to be about player versus player. Hall has described it more of a social and emotional experiement.

As radical as only playing in first person may seem, it's in the spirit of the game. I believe it's a game mechanic that needs to at least be tested, regardless of how many people disagree. If, only then, can you tell why first person ruins the idea behind the game.

DayZ has changed a lot since it first came out. What was once a real goal to survive from zombies and the occasional player, has turned into a large scale PVP battle. It sucks imo because the consept of what DayZ is, is amazing! But you have all those 12 year old kids who think their so boss with their hacked in AS50, ghillie suit, nvgs, etc. and just shoot bambis in Elektro. Half the time the kids can't hit worth a crap but still is scary to have a .50 cal bullet go by.

But on the topic of third person. I don't really have an opinion on it. If it stays I'm just as fine with it as if it was removed.

[Venick 6]

Private hives can keep their setup. I'm speaking of the standalone. Assuming Dean's vision hasn't changed, I hope he'd force me into using first person. Third person is a habit I can't give up on my own.

[enforcer1975 1111]

Okay, so I can see now that half of the community still want to have third person, no matter it lets you to cheat by looking over the walls and around the corners. This is wrong int the game where stealth is critical.

So a simple solution would be to fix it in elevation - this way you still have full situational awareness, but you can't UAV over fences and other obstacles. It can be either fixed in elevation or can folow terrain, so if you go uphill, it will look up a bit and when you descend it will follow you down. The crosshair should be free in movement though (but I wouldn't shoot from third person if I were you anyway).

Second way might be quite resource-intensive. You know, if you use a flashlight it lights up only the area it spills it's light on. What if everything that is not in your First person LOS would be blurred out while you're in third person? This way looking around the corners would be highly ineffective. I don't know how hard is that to implement such shader into the game.

Thoughts? Ideas?

Point of aim and point of impact are not always the same if you look from an angle, that's why shooting while aiming always give the best results. If you are using TrackIR you can see what i mean the best.

[#Sleepy 572]

>No don't remove the debug I can't play without it T_T

>Dean removes debug

>Oh, well this is fine.

You'll fucking adjust.

[WiFiN 55]

Of course, you could always play No 3rd person servers.

Or you can always stop trying to be smartass and think about the suggestion.

Don't remove third person.

Stop bitching and play the game. Its fine how it is.

Gaston, Op needs more brains, and some brawn removed. the best fix ever, play on a FPW only server.

Why don't you two have a nice cup of STFU and read the original post before posting your crap?

It's simple, remove third person!

The game will be so much better without it, but I'm forced to play on third person servers because those are the only full ones.

TL;DR

I see that some people are very attached to TPW, that's why I don't suggest to remove it, but fix the exploit with it.

Why splitting to TPW and noTPW is bad - has been already stated - noTPW servers are empty and what is worse - it splits the community. That's why I want it to be single build without Hardcore and ForDummies.

[Very Ape 748]

I agree with Venick, first person does make the game much scarier.

However, I will miss not seeing my character's clothing. xD

With any luck, you won't be able to zoom out It'll be more of an over-the-shoulder view? And perhaps going prone could force you into 1st person mode.

[Bladez 0f Fury 33]

Or you can always stop trying to be smartass and think about the suggestion.

Why don't you two have a nice cup of STFU and read the original post before posting your crap?

TL;DR

I see that some people are very attached to TPW, that's why I don't suggest to remove it, but fix the exploit with it.

Why splitting to TPW and noTPW is bad - has been already stated - noTPW servers are empty and what is worse - it splits the community. That's why I want it to be single build without Hardcore and ForDummies.

Already had one. It was quite soothing. Thanks for your offer anyhow.

The game is perfect how it is. With every bug it has in the game. The ONLY thing they need to do is fix the bit of lag (with characters) and zombie lag, Make zombies one shot to the head ONLY (no body shots). Make a better map and make it so you can build your own "colonies." The Third Person is fine how it is, FP is too bugged and will ALWAYS be too bugged in ArmA games. Hell ArmA 3 looks to have SOMEWHAT fixed it, but its still buggier than what I would like.

I would hate for you to play R6V2, you can go up onto the side of walls and look into other rooms without ever exposing yourself. I'm sure you would just LOVE to bitch about how that game is "unfair" and "how using it is cheap" and what ever the else you are bitching about.

If FP was fixed I would have no problem playing in FP, but its not, nor can it be. And because of that, I will ALWAYS play in third person. And for those of you who say "It breaks the realism." It really doesn't. I can pretend I'm in FP while playing in third. If you can't, you need to get your imagination fixed. That and the main thing that makes DayZ more immersive than any other game is the adrenaline. I doubt ANY of you start nit picking when you are in a huge firefight. Fuck I doubt any of you have ever been prone behind a small wall thinking "wow this is so game breaking." You don't You focus on the threat and neutralize it. It seems to me like there are plenty of FP players and that there should be enough people to fill 2-3 servers, blame the community for not playing FP servers, not the game.

P.S. Nice Quad post nub.

Edited December 20, 2012 by Bladez 0f Fury