A serious question for the PvP-phobes

[Andrej Dudev 50]

If you got shot, you were careless. If you weren't careless, you wouldn't have gotten shot. You made a mistake, learn that fast. You've got a chip on your shoulder if you don't think you fucked up somehow. Maybe this is why you're on the forum whining? "I shouldn't have died I'm awesome" -- You fucked up.

If a sniper with NVG kills you in the middle of a forest during night then what? Should I crawl every inch of the map because I have to be afraid that someone is hiding behind every tree waiting to kill me?

[dallas 5195]

Without humanity DayZ is just another shooter.

I wonder if humanity will be removed entirely, since it's already rendered obsolete.

[Refried 14]

If a sniper with NVG kills you in the middle of a forest during night then what? Should I crawl every inch of the map because I have to be afraid that someone is hiding behind every tree waiting to kill me?

pretty much yes

you are going to die in this game.

period.

the circumstances surrounding it barely matters (and that goes double for your super-contrived scenario above)

Edited July 19, 2012 by Refried

[evulclown@gmail.com 191]

If a sniper with NVG kills you in the middle of a forest during night then what? Should I crawl every inch of the map because I have to be afraid that someone is hiding behind every tree waiting to kill me?

Yes.

If I knew there were people roaming the wild IRL with sniper rifles and night vision -- Maybe I wouldn't go gather supplies at night, ya know? Maybe i'd hunker down and call it a night. Or go to safer locations. I probably wouldn't run carefree into a military complex or a city with a flare and be all "ohhh noooees I got shot, DIS GAMMMEEE!".

Use your fucking head

[Bribase 251]

The more I think about it, the more I think the persistence of a character across servers was a misstep in game design. Character persistence may allow you to feel more connected to your character, but boy does it make you feel like the lives of others is cheap.

I personally like the danger of PvP, what with the infected being less of a risk now as I've become more proficient. But what I like is a mixture of playstyles. I look forward to seeing lone wolves that keep to themselves and are generally passive, small groups that seek to achieve objectives and build bases, bandit groups that seek to dominate the map and horde goods, and yes, ruthless players that are out to kill. Private hives on servers that forge their own communities and identities do that better than a public server list, filled with seemingly expendable players.

Day Z is in a state of flux. It's a game with little to do beyond PK at a certain point. COD kiddies will get bored of the mod eventually, lone wolves will get lonely and realise that some thnigs can't be done without backup, people will begin to assume roles as the complexity of the game deepens. I don't think that PvP will be the only playstyle out there for long.

[Humbabwe 16]

My two cents: I think something which will solve this quite quickly is to bring back the idea of bandits/ survivors (if you kill 3 people who've never killed anyone, you become a bandit) and/or from that point on (as a bandit or without banditry) the more innocents you kill, the greater range of zombie pullage.

[Refried 14]

Day Z is in a state of flux. It's a game with little to do beyond PK at a certain point. COD kiddies will get bored of the mod eventually, lone wolves will get lonely and realise that some thnigs can't be done without backup, people will begin to assume roles as the complexity of the game deepens. I don't think that PvP will be the only playstyle out there for long.

there is no other possible play style

zombies are trivial

killing players in this game is fun because you are killing someone that may have spent weeks* gathering his kit (the same as you)

it is not even remotely similar to cod/halo/whatever other dumb fucking comparison you want to make where you instantly respawn fully kitted on a tiny map

i would love to hear you explain what 'complexity' the game would magically have by becoming a ghost town since all other mechanics like wandering medics, anti-bandit groups, and safe zones revolve around the danger of players, not some AI zombies

*note: this does not actually exist anymore because rampant duping issues have failed to be fixed

Edited July 19, 2012 by Refried

[Andrej Dudev 50]

Use your fucking head

Barely neuron user detected, I understand.

I know I can die, I died because of glitches, bugs, other players and never complained.

What I can't stand is this kind of retard-elitarism of those supposed "pro-snipers" with every legit justification about their behavior.

You are using your own view and moral to do whatever you want (I never said that you shouldn't) but if anyone disagree you just call names and tell everyone to shut up because they don't agree with your ideals.

It's like telling "killing for the lulz-sport is wrong" and you say "shut up" and you see only your opinion with a perfect tunnel vision of the entire discussion.

Only your opinion is the law and everyone else is wrong. That's what i think is dumb.

I understand your point of view but YOU HAVE to understand my point of view, that's how it should work and if you disagree then you are like every carebear whining because they died after two steps out of the beach.

I probably wouldn't run carefree into a military complex or a city with a flare and be all "ohhh noooees I got shot, DIS GAMMMEEE!".

I really don't know where I wrote that I was running carefree in the middle of an airfield.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Andrej Dudev

[Mourek 40]

Encountering other players in DayZ is what keeps me going.

[Dramatic Exit 62]

For quite a long time I was an admin on a freelancer server. It was the official server for a mod called Discovery Freelancer. The mod is set up for a roleplayed environment. People would take a specific role, talk in character and so on... There used to be a lot of complaining about "pvp-whores" and "people not thinking in roleplay about who they were killing". arguments raged, people got pissed off,

People get precious over their own fiction, and their own experience of the game. That's understandable I suppose, in that essentially everyone plays games or writes fiction for their own benefit above all else. To a certain extent DayZ is the same. People are playing to create their own story, to generate their own experience in an environment which is handily made by someone else, and they become strangely protective over how they think it should be.

When things happen to that player which do not fit into their view of how their experience should be, they get hurt. They find it hard to deal with stuff which isn't on their terms. This comes across as butthurt when people bitch endlessly about it on the forums, because that's exactly what it is. But at it's root, it's only people trying to protect their way and their view. 'Tis that wonderful human nature they talk about.

Tackling it has to be a two-pronged thing.

- Being more considerate of other people's playstyle and wishes. Now that doesn't mean being passive and bending over backwards to accomodate people's totally arbitrary whims. But just not doing stuff like dick-killing random freshly spawned dudes on the coast with a sniper rifle from some place they can't even see, for no gain of your own.

- Not being so damned precious about your own playstyle. You may not want to get shot, but hey... The environment created facilitates shooting as a choice players can make, and not shooting as another. Given that choice in a multiplayer game environment, a large number of folks are gonna take the shooting option. That's fair enough by my book.

[evulclown@gmail.com 191]

You are using your own view and moral to do whatever you want (I never said that you shouldn't) but if anyone disagree you just call names and tell everyone to shut up because they don't agree with your ideals.

The irony here is, this is you NOT me.

I am not imposing my ideals onto you, I am not calling you a moron for wanting to play carebear. Do what you damn well want in this sandbox PvP survival horror game -- that's exactly the point of it, YOU make your rules.

• Want to set up a shop and trade with players? Awesome.
  
• Want to go around helping people? Awesome.
  
• Wanna be a merc for hire? Awesome.
  
• Want to be a highway robber? Awesome.
  
• Want to be a psycho and kill people then collect trophies? Well okay awesome...
  
• Want to meet people ingame and join with them? Swell!
  
• Wanna go clean out zombies genocide style? Knock yourself out.
  
• Wanna kill people for whatever reason? Go ahead.
  
• Wanna be some behind enemy lines sniper? up to you son.
  
• Wanna be part of some bandit Viking style crew that pillages others and has battles? sweet man
  
• Wanna live off the land and hide in the forest like bear grylles? No one's stopping you
  
• Wanna be some batman law maker taking down bandits? Kickass.
  

It is you people however that are going "OMG YOU SHOULD ONLY KILL FOR X REASON OTHERWISE WE NEED SOME GAME FEATURE TO STOP THIS PLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ" -- This is why you're a dumbass. You want some artificial feature in the game to impose your skewed and naive sense of ethics and morality which would not actually be realistic.

What's funny is this game gives a pretty true to life creation of what it would turn into if people had weapons and there were no laws. Why do you think we have laws and rules in countries / religions? None of our rules or laws are just "oh hey guyz maybe follow this please". No, they're backed up with punishments / damnation in hell if you don't follow them. There is a reason behind that, because when people think they can get away with things "humanity" disappears mighty fast. Look at what happens during unregulated wars, riots, in countries where laws are lax or not upheld, all through history when there were no laws over an area or a group of individuals / people were not accountable for their actions. Take a look at what happens with group mentality -- The fucking very anonymity of the internet and what people do when they feel they can get away with it? Even with all our laws and rules, how many criminals are there in the world? How many murderers? And that's people who know there's repercussions in the form of prisons / police and still do it. Now take away those repercussions in a post apocalyptic world...

What's the big rule in the 10 commandments?

Thau shalt not kill.

Why is that set there as a rule? With the threat of eternal damnation for failing to abide? Would that need to be there if "people were just nice"? No -- Humans can be cunts, it's in our nature.

The reason people banded together into tribes was for protection / for sex / to be more powerful than the next tribe in order to take their things. When a tribe was so effective it became a country, it still strove for those things. Laws only came into place to keep the tribe / people of a country in line so that they could easily defend / attack other countries and not decend into the anarchy that happens without laws. A lot of people would not just rob someone either. Why leave them alive? They'll want revenge, maybe they'll tell others what you did, maybe they'll track you down.

Not everyone devolves into a murderous psychopath, but you'll see a lot of people doing bad things they otherwise would not.

As it stands, would you walk into a ghetto with everyone having guns with you having $500 in your backpack and think it was a smart idea to start walking up to random people going "hey dude wanna be friends?.

What's the end goal of being "super friends 4ever"? You band together into a large group? Then what? You settle down into a community? Better build some defences just in case? Where to settle down? Well naturally near good resources for getting supplies... Well guess what group number 2 who settled down likes your location better. Now they come and attack you -- You just got a war on your hands. Does that sound familiar? You just swapped "random" killing as you all put it for "organized killing". Look how many wars are going on this very minute in the real world:

http://en.wikipedia....itary_conflicts

Edited July 19, 2012 by itputsthelotion

[Ankhenaten 111]

Thau shalt not kill.

Why is that set there as a rule? With the threat of eternal damnation for failing to abide? Would that need to be there if "people were just nice"? No -- Humans can be cunts, it's in our nature.

If anyone would kill everyone there would be no reproduction. Even Black Widows tend to kill after the act. It's a natural law. Since you keep on quoting a simplistic view of evolution. Your simplistic view of the stronger survives is in so far simplistic as the ones genes survive who manages to shag the most women that then make kids. While you run around playing big macho guy, the one that takes less risks might shag your missus.

But since we have no sex in the game, it can descend into DM. Which is fun, I did it since more than 20 years. Fitness is measured in reproduction and not in the amount you kill. It can be an option, but with other males around you your chances to get children are lowered if you behave in a persistant aggressive manner.

That's the simple and only reason, we have these morals. Coop makes more kids.

Military conflicts are largely coop conflicts between smaller closer related subtribes. We sanction murder for survival so we can have a nice life with loads of sex. We don't sanction murdering peaceful people, as their risk taking would threaten us. If killing is a measure to at least imaginary protect our reproduction, we think it's cool. Otherwise it's a big nono.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Ankhenaten

[evulclown@gmail.com 191]

What are you on about? Who do you think gets women in a tribal scenario? It isn't mr sly, it's the 7 foot guy who will squash you with his club. That's where the term alpha male comes from. And yes, then they thive because they reproduce more. That's why animals fight each other to become the dominant male and thus head of the "pack" and with the first pick for reproduction.

I'm not being macho in the slightest, I'm being realistic.

[NightRipper 284]

Finally we're getting somewhere, these are great idea's.

It'd be fantastic if you could build a settlement of some kind and use it as a 'safe zone' with people protecting it from would be bandits and rouges.

Something along those lines is actually being considered by the dev team for future implementation. See the interview here:

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/pc-games/exclusive-dean-rocket-hall-interview/

[Dramatic Exit 62]

<things>

<stuff>

Videogame. You do realise this videogame will never be an accurate representation of anything aisde from being an accurate representation of a videogame, right?

I mean, it's an online shooter at it's root, with a tough environment and a few realistic bits and peices (and the realism of thsoe is limited in the extreme).

The discussion you're having is totally and utterly irrelevant to this essentially consequence-free environment. Society and community exist in a different state on the internet. It's anonymous. The rest of the world is not. The way people behave in game is in no way related to the way people would behave in reality.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Dramatic Exit

[Ankhenaten 111]

What are you on about? Who do you think gets women in a tribal scenario? It isn't mr sly, it's the 7 foot guy who will squash you with his club. That's where the term alpha male comes from. And yes, then they thive because they reproduce more. That's why animals fight each other to become the dominant male and thus head of the "pack" and with the first pick for reproduction.

I'm not being macho in the slightest, I'm being realistic.

LOL but we are not apes. Otherwise we would live like apes. Some people are ape like. It's a complicated interplay of many factors. We are intelligent people, we invent guns so 7 foot tall means shit if I sneak up on you and blow a dart in your neck. Hence we go for the equality thing.

That's our species, technological advancement overrides physical domination. We build guns that make us equal, the threat that an arrow|dart|bullet can kill one.

In our non killing society psychopaths that can mimic emotions win. They sit in banks. The loosers that shoot each other sit in South Central and the slums.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Ankhenaten

[evulclown@gmail.com 191]

Videogame. You do realise this videogame

herp derp, you can't have it both ways. You can't come in and go this isn't realistic guys random killing wouldn't happen IRL!!!! And then when that's proven wrong, turn around and go LOLZ VIDEO GAME.

It's a video game that's trying to be gritty and realistic. It's a sandbox PvP multiplayer survival horror sim. It's not even deemed a "game" by its creator.

If you're after a co-op survival killing game, you've come to the wrong place -- They aren't even zombies if you want to get that pedantic.

LOL but we are not apes. Otherwise would live like apes. Some people are ape like. It's a complicated interplay of many factors. We are intelligent people, we invent guns so 7 foot tall means shit if I sneak up on you and blow a dart in your neck. Hence we go for the equality thing.

That's our species, technological advancement overrides physical domination. We build guns that make us equal, the threat that 20 can kill one.

In our non killing society psychopaths that can mimic emotions win. They sit in banks. The loosers that shoot each other sit in South Central and the slums.

You'd be the first to go in the great purge -- Jesus christ. Read a history book and get a clue. This is such an irrelevant tangent compared to the issues being discussed but:

Humans as we "know" them have been around for approx 200,000 years. "practical" guns have been around for approx 6 - 700 years. Being smart goes in hand with being strong, it's all a moot point.

You go sit your ass in a football field sized compound with 30 other guys with limited resources and we'll see who ends up "on top".

Edited July 22, 2012 by itputsthelotion

[Dramatic Exit 62]

you can't have it both ways.

... Are you retarded?

Don't answer that.

Anyway... Have a little look around, and see if I said at any point that it's anything other than a videogame.

[Ankhenaten 111]

Videogame. You do realise this videogame will never be an accurate representation of anything aisde from being an accurate representation of a videogame, right?

I mean, it's an online shooter at it's root, with a tough environment and a few realistic bits and peices (and the realism of thsoe is limited in the extreme).

The discussion you're having is totally and utterly irrelevant to this essentially consequence-free environment. Society and community exist in a different state on the internet. It's anonymous. The rest of the world is not. The way people behave in game is in no way related to the way people would behave in reality.

I was adressing that guys illusionary basic understanding of evolution. In the game shoot on sight is the best strategy, I use it. I also avoid contact.

But the game is a model system, so differences need to be cleared up, between real life and the model sandbox.

[Ankhenaten 111]

dp

Edited July 19, 2012 by Ankhenaten

[evulclown@gmail.com 191]

... Are you retarded?

Don't answer that.

Anyway... Have a little look around, and see if I said at any point that it's anything other than a videogame.

You're hopping into the thread and retorting me after I retort other people. I'm not replying that you said it was anything other than a video game -- But you're retorting an argument made against people saying "this isn't realistic". I'm talking to everyone arguing that PvP needs some carebear mechanic to make it into their view of "what's right" morally. Hence the 2 coin tosses of arguments can't be fucking pulled out against me as a retort: "this isn't realistic it wouldnt happen in real life" then after he's proven wrong some other clown goes "it's a game man this isn't real life".

Fact is though, this mod is built on an engine designed for millitary simulation. Rocket has aimed for this to be a more realistic simulation than a "game", he's stated it is not a game.

It's like we're discussing a cartoon of a car driving down the road

and person x goes "omg wheels dont go round in real life this cartoon is silly and needs to be changed"

and I go "wheels totally go round in real life"

and then you walk in and go "dude it's a cartoon why are you talking about real life!"

Then you have the gall to call me retarded?

Edit:

Seriously, if this is the calibre of moron that's picketing for some carebear PVP system, it's no wonder they get shot in the face all the time. I'm surprised you haven't all licked plug sockets yet, because "there isn't a guide telling me that plug sockets are not good to be licked" or "the game doesn't have a bandit outfit on plug sockets that show me its OK to lick them or not.

Edited July 19, 2012 by itputsthelotion

[Ankhenaten 111]

Humans as we "know" them have been around for approx 200,000 years. "practical" guns have been around for approx 6 - 700 years. Being smart goes in hand with being strong, it's all a moot point.

You go sit your ass in a football field sized compound with 30 other guys with limited resources and we'll see who ends up "on top".

lol ... I can play subdued and will kill you when I can .. and I will .. or one of the 300 other guys that can team up after me. Ape style behaviour might work in a small environment, the bigger the scenario gets the more likely you will loose. Your stupidity and ego will kill you.

People complain about snipers in this game. All their mega gear, hoarding wank alpha cr@p and they get taken out by a lonely sniper. :D

Edited July 19, 2012 by Ankhenaten

[Dramatic Exit 62]

You're hopping into the thread and retorting me after I retort other people.

The post I made was my second post in the thread. I chose to respond to both you and the guy you're engaged in a dickwaving contest with, because as I see if you're failing to notice the fact that this is not anything like an accurate model for anything at all.

Whether Rocket wishes to call it a game or not is an irrelevance. It always will be a game. It's a fictional environment designed to be immersive, puts the player within it, and the player is there for their own enjoyment. It's competative. Hell, it has difficulty settings. No simulation would have difficulty settings.

But even that is mindblowingly superfluous to the fact you're talking about real humans in real situations and waving your gargantuan e-schlong about, in a situation in which none of this, not even the interaction between you and me, would be happening were we to meet in reality. We wouldn't even approach this subject.

The reason you're so keen to jump on the hostility wagon and ride it all the way to argumentville, is because you know that there is no consequence in societal terms for arguing with people. You're shielded by a wall of anonymity. The game is the same. As a result it can't possibly be a simulation of reality with regards to human behaviour, because for that to happen it would somehow have to crack through the internet distance. Ain't gonna happen.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Dramatic Exit

[Ankhenaten 111]

in a dickwaving contest with

Maybe some self reflection would be good at this point.. :D

Models are models, they are not realistic by definition my dear dickwaving friend. ;)

Edited July 19, 2012 by Ankhenaten

[evulclown@gmail.com 191]

The post I made was my second post in the thread. I chose to respond to both you and the guy you're engaged in a dickwaving contest with, because as I see if you're failing to notice the fact that this is not anything like an accurate model for anything at all.

Whether Rocket wishes to call it a game or not is an irrelevance. It always will be a game. It's a fictional environment designed to be immersive, puts the player within it, and the player is there for their own enjoyment. It's competative. Hell, it has difficulty settings. No simulation would have difficulty settings.

But even that is mindblowingly superfluous to the fact you're talking about real humans in real situations and waving your gargantuan e-schlong about, in a situation in which none of this, not even the interaction between you and me, would be happening were we to meet in reality. We wouldn't even approach this subject.

The reason you're so keen to jump on the hostility wagon and ride it all the way to argumentville, is because you know that there is no consequence in societal terms for arguing with people. You're shielded by a wall of anonymity. The game is the same. As a result it can't possibly be a simulation of reality with regards to human behaviour, because for that to happen it would somehow have to crack through the internet distance. Ain't gonna happen.

The sweet sweet irony of your entire circle of argument there comes out to "there's anonymity in this game and the internet which means you can do what you want" In a real world situation with no laws there would be anonymity too. What exactly are you arguing against here? People would do whatever the fuck they wanted with no repercussions in the real world and that's exactly what's happening in this "game" "simulation" "collection of pixels" whatever other semantic you want to start an argument over (which is a complete irrelevance in and of itself).

lol ... I can play subdued and will kill you when I can .. and I will .. or one of the 300 other guys that can team up after me. Ape style behaviour might work in a small environment, the bigger the scenario gets the more likely you will loose. Your stupidity and ego will kill you.

People complain about snipers in this game. All their mega gear, hoarding wank alpha cr@p and they get taken out by a lonely sniper. :D

And as to you, I don't even know what you're argument is trying to achieve at this stage. What? Okay you'd kill me or something and be mighty.

Edited July 19, 2012 by itputsthelotion