A serious question for the PvP-phobes

[TheMachine 803]

I expect to meet other survivors from the hell that has occured to the land, assist each other in achieving our goals of survival and rebuilding civilisation (in a RP sense of course) and defend our group from Bandits and outlaws.

I believe it is unacceptable to be shot for no reason but accept if we are pointing guns at each other and screaming that it may occur.

I would propose mechanics implemented that give players (strangers in this case) more reason not to shoot everyone they see, primarly in more Co-op play and things to do Other then shoot people.

Finally we're getting somewhere, these are great idea's.

It'd be fantastic if you could build a settlement of some kind and use it as a 'safe zone' with people protecting it from would be bandits and rouges.

[Virfortis 111]

You have the same chance to get a sniper rifle and survive in the woods and kill people if you so choose as that guy did.

You also have the power to evade players like that.

DayZ is popular precisely because it's NOT left4dead or some other boring zombie killing simulator, of which there are thousands.

Without the constant risk of death at any time what is it?

A game with clunky controls on an old engine that has very poor cheat detection, sub par netcode and poorly optimised graphics.

However this is NOT a 'what is acceptable PvP' or 'what's dayz about' thread.

This is a simple question, what do YOU expect the interaction with other players in DayZ to be?

Do you believe it's unacceptable for another player to kill you in a given situation, and if so, how do you propose that the other player is stopped from doing so?

I'd really like if these questions could be addressed directly.

There's a misconception here that everyone has an equal chance. People that kill on sight and camp for fun have an exponentially better gameplay experience than players who want to survive. The fact is, you're ignoring the only answer to your question, you're denying that the bandit glass ceiling exists. In short, there is nothing but killing, ergo there is nothing but banditry. Survivors die because they think, bandits win because they don't think, just click the mouse. Yes, there's nothing stopping you, but then you're just playing Modern Warfare with a much larger map. It cheapens the gameplay, something we're TRYING to avoid.

There is no answer to PvP EXCEPT to enforce complex rules, rules that force people to think like rational human beings, instead of falsely presumptuious paranoid, unbound murders with a god-complex. That involves changing the games mentality and feel, two things which do not simply change.

The simple answer to your simple question it this: There IS NO ANSWER. DayZ is a game, and a game will always be a fantasy. DayZ is the uncanny valley of gameplay, plain and simple. It has too much attempted realism for there to be a respawning feature. Obviously, taking away the respawn feature is not an option, and one cannot force people into talking things out like a normal human being would, because that's not gung-ho actiony and doesn't leave you fooling yourself into thinking you're a man.

So you either take away the respawning, or take away the concept of realism, but having both in a persistent world where players can do what they want causes the uncanny valley, a place where there's no real question except "why do I bother?"

With no co-operative mechanics, no way to keep people from "pushing the big red button" as it were, and no fantasy mechanic to counter the fantasy respawning, morality and calculation fail. EVERYONE is going to push the "game over" button because they have no reason not to, so your only option is to push it before they do. So in the end, it's not about mechanics, or planning, or hell even incentive, it's about the misconstrued, false, fantasy driven mentality of the gamer playing it.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Virfortis

[sambody 44]

We also see this kinda threads much as the whiney threads. It's nothing wrong killing people when they are being a threat to you somehow. But the real "problem" is that people are killing others just for fun and no other reasons.

[TheMachine 803]

stuff

So you're proposing there be rules stopping players from engaging other players in combat?

[CptSpank 19]

This is a simple question, what do YOU expect the interaction with other players in DayZ to be?

Do you believe it's unacceptable for another player to kill you in a given situation, and if so, how do you propose that the other player is stopped from doing so?

To put it simply I think the interaction is fine. It's the choice of each person on how they interact let alone the situation.

However some players see the murder count as a goal, so having this encourages banditry in this sense. To counter that a reward system of equal merit is needed, such as a counter for transfusion/1st aid for everyone you help. This in turn will encourage players to choose one of two paths more openly instead of the one path a number of players tend to go down, some more voluntarily than others.

[TheMachine 803]

We also see this kinda threads much as the whiney threads. It's nothing wrong killing people when they are being a threat to you somehow. But the real "problem" is that people are killing others just for fun and no other reasons.

Please, address the questions directly.

What do you propose is done to limit player PvP interaction, or do you believe that player PvP interaction needs to be limited?

[Virfortis 111]

In what way? I'm all for firefights, but sniper griefing is something that requires a case by case basis. So no, arbitrary mechanics would just cause whining, it's the player mentality that has to change. We all know that's not changing, kids have to look skilled or else they're picked on right?

[TheMachine 803]

In what way? I'm all for firefights, but sniper griefing is something that requires a case by case basis. So no, arbitrary mechanics would just cause whining, it's the player mentality that has to change. We all know that's not changing, kids have to look skilled or else they're picked on right?

So what you're saying is that a PvP firefight with automatic weapons is permissible, but someone using a sniper rifle is not?

Are you proposing sniper rifles be removed from the game?

[Stridsbulten 9]

PvP is a necessary part of this experience.

Sniper killing you with .50 cal rifles from 700 meters away is NOT.

Server hopping douchebags who pop out of no where in already secured rooms are NOT.

I love PvP when it results in an interesting experience. The above arent interesting, they are annoying and frustrating. And they also account for about 80% of my player related deaths at this point.

[Stridsbulten 9]

So what you're saying is that a PvP firefight with automatic weapons is permissible, but someone using a sniper rifle is not?

Are you proposing sniper rifles be removed from the game?

High power military rifles should be removed or so extremely rare it's comparable to helicopters. Same with rangefinders.

Keep regular hunting and sniper rifles, but get rid of the heaviest stuff.

As it is now, this is more a sniper simulator than a zombie apocalypse simulator.

When was the last time you saw sniper camping, human killing people in 28 days later, Dawn of the dead, the Walking Dead or any other zombie movie?

When was the last time you saw sniper camping, human killing people in ANY post-apocalyptic movie or book?

It is just not part of the formula.

[Virfortis 111]

So what you're saying is that a PvP firefight with automatic weapons is permissible, but someone using a sniper rifle is not?

Are you proposing sniper rifles be removed from the game?

That might actually artificially help, but to change the mentality of players is not so simple.

My main, underlying idea, is to scatter the zombies out, make bulets worth something (increase rarity) and add in "chill" factors for snipers. It's cold up there ya know? Also, do we really need the AS50? What purpose does it really serve? Why are scopes not damaged by weather? Why are perfectly working guns coming out of totally wrecked helicopters? Why aren't the guns in bad shape so that they need repair? It's the little things.

If a sniper wants to kill, fine, but he should have to weigh the facts out such as are zombies nearby? Can I make that shot? There's also that problem, people aren't as accurate as they are in a game. These are all little things, but at the end of the day, they won't change the murders = points mentality.

[sambody 44]

Please, address the questions directly.

What do you propose is done to limit player PvP interaction, or do you believe that player PvP interaction needs to be limited?

If I did understand anything with my bad english and headache. The PvP should not be changed, but the people who kills other for fun should be stopped, somehow.

And just to add, only available method for stopping people is to ban them ingame. But theres no banning people just like that? is there?

Edited July 19, 2012 by sambody

[TheMachine 803]

That might actually artificially help, but to change the mentality of players is not so simple.

My main, underlying idea, is to scatter the zombies out, make bulets worth something (increase rarity) and add in "chill" factors for snipers. It's cold up there ya know? Also, do we really need the AS50? What purpose does it really serve? Why are scopes not damaged by weather? Why are perfectly working guns coming out of totally wrecked helicopters? Why aren't the guns in bad shape so that they need repair? It's the little things.

If a sniper wants to kill, fine, but he should have to weigh the facts out such as are zombies nearby? Can I make that shot? There's also that problem, people aren't as accurate as they are in a game. These are all little things, but at the end of the day, they won't change the murders = points mentality.

I'm for a large majority of the space age weapons to be taken out of game.

AS50, m107, NVG, thermal scopes, basically all the 'high tech' stuff seems out of place and a bit silly.

If I did understand anything with my bad english and headache. The PvP should not be changed, but the people who kills other for fun should be stopped, somehow.

And just to add, only available method for stopping people is to ban them ingame. But theres no banning people just like that? is there?

Banning people for PvPing is a stupid idea and would damage the game base, the 'open' factor is what's interesting.

At least it's a suggestion though.

[DemonGroover 8836]

I have no problem with PvP

I have a problem with soft cocks who Alt-F4 when someone fights back.

You want to fight - fair enough, but do me the courtesy of staying in the fight.

[Ankhenaten 111]

If there would be zombie population that could be killed forever, the guns would make more sense and one could clear out areas and make them safe.

The villages could be occupied and made safe in team work. Survivors with starting pistols or hatchets would need to group together to get any loot from other people.

This would be more realistic and would give an incentive to team up. Severs could maybe be persistent for a month so that a kinda development from day 0 to day 30 could take place.

Like in real life teams could use passwords to identify friend from foe, with the odd leaked password for some betrayal.

Let clans take villages, that would give incentives for new players to team up. Sniping would make sense to clear zombies and to attack villages or to defend them.

Essentially the hold an area variant ... Witn ctf or capture the loot thrown in.

[EndEffeKt 87]

The PvP is what makes this game so intense and fun, but every playerkill should matter. It should give you reward (equipment), but on the other side deny you options (teamwork?), so you have to weight it against each other.

Atm there is a minor group of people who like to kill players for the lulz and justify this with "In an postapocalyptic world i would kill your for food"

WHEN ACTUALLY DID YOU KILL A SURVIVOR IN THIS GAME BECAUSE YOU WERE STARVING TO DEATH? (hilarious argument)

The problem is, that this group pushed the normal paranoia of a dayz-player over the top, so now average players shoot people on sight cos they think anybody else would. If i get no reward for not killing you, why should i take the risk of you shooting me in the back? The only thing that stops some players from doing so is their moral and their empathy in the poor guy that just lost all his stuff without any reason.

[TheMachine 803]

If there would be zombie population that could be killed forever, the guns would make more sense and one could clear out areas and make them safe.

The villages could be occupied and made safe in team work. Survivors with starting pistols or hatchets would need to group together to get any loot from other people.

This would be more realistic and would give an incentive to team up. Severs could maybe be persistent for a month so that a kinda development from day 0 to day 30 could take place.

Like in real life teams could use passwords to identify friend from foe, with the odd leaked password for some betrayal.

Let clans take villages, that would give incentives for new players to team up. Sniping would make sense to clear zombies and to attack villages or to defend them.

Essentially the hold an area variant ... Witn ctf or capture the loot thrown in.

These are really great ideas, capturing various area's and clearing them out of zombies that don't respawn while there's people are there sounds awesome.

Be great when zombies are more of a challenge and there's more of them too, that'll make defensible areas that people have 'secured' high value and players will actually WANT to team up to get into them.

Maybe cherno will be taken over by 'good' people who keep roving bandits out, or maybe it'll be taken over by bandits that lure survivors in?

All sounds like things we've seen in zombie movies and it sounds awesome. :D

[edonovan 15]

Should I be worried by the fact that if I was actually in a zombie apocalypse, I wouldn't have any qualms about killing other non-zeds for no reason whatsoever?

I mean, really, what else have I been stockpiling 30-06 rounds for?

[Omebius 1]

of course the simple answer is alot of this would stop if the mentality was changed by removing the murder stat. no score, no points i think you would find that one simple liytle change would change the behaviour of a large proportion of sit on the hill snipers, pressing a button to see a number go up

[Draz3n 7]

I have gone from playing on any server to just play on a low population server and by myself there is no joy in dieing. and there is no joy or fun to be had in ruining peoples experiences.

I have a great time when playing but its not going to last forever because there is nothing in this game once you have gear and unless rocket and his team figure something out this game is not going to be around long.

And we also have to deal with the hackers ruining everyones experiences in this game.

Props on the game but I guess i need to remember its just in alpha.

First post Woot :P

[P5ykoOHD 63]

The shoot first mentality is fairly fustrating to those whom are new.

The whole Bandit thing is fun and all but since theres so little ingame mechanics for co-operation, the game has become nothing more then a Deathmatch featuring zombies. There is a strong need for something to be added so the shoot-first setup is only used by those who come here for that purpose and not by your average survivor.

Imgine yourself in a Real Life Zapocalypse ...

Now, you are a lone survivor, looting to survive, have a decent weapon ... you fear for your life, as you only got one.

You come across a "squad" of survivors ... what to do ?

- Stalk them, see if thay are friendly or not and risk getting spotted ?

- Run away from them, avoid any risk ?

- Thay have something you want, need ... thay don't seem to be well armed, so you rob them ?

- You just got out of a gun fight with people trying to rob, kill you ... do not wish to take any risk, so take advantage of the surprise and kill them ?

"The Road" is a very good example of what an apocalupe type scenario could be like, where people kill others to survive (!!! Spoiler !!! remember that scene where a groupe of "bandits" kill a girl running thue a field to eat her ?)

This is what's so cool about the game, the amount of possibilities you have at your disposal.

And believe it or not, in real life, a man will kill another just to make sure he survives another day(z) ...

So yeah, I ersonally consider anyone with a gun as a threat, so I kill them ... (Also mainly cause I have this bad habbit of not carring food on me xD)

I am a role player.

And if my lack of steath gets me spotted, I accept my faith and defend my life like a man, I pitty those who Alt+F4, as thay are truly missing the purpous of this game, and therefor missing all the fun it has to offer. Cause there is nothing better than the adrenaline rush. It's a Hardcore drug, that I am a happy slave of. :P

Edited July 19, 2012 by P5ykoOHD

[JKflipflop 40]

I've made it my mission to ruin this game for as many people as I can. Hopefully we'll bring back the bandit skin. That was a brilliant idea.

[P5ykoOHD 63]

I've made it my mission to ruin this game for as many people as I can. Hopefully we'll bring back the bandit skin. That was a brilliant idea.

The bandit skin was not really a "good idea" ... it took away the "immersion" factor.

As when you came across a player with the bandit skin, you knew that he was a clear threat, and therefor engaged him, therefor siding Survivors and Bandits in 2 clear and seperate sides.

As now with no bandit skin, you never know if the other player is a bandit or not, it builds stress, tension ... not knowing if you should engage, and become a bandit yourself or leave him and risk getting killed cause he was a bandit.

It's much better now.

EDIT:

I am a bandit myself ... I roleplay as the "bad guy", cause it is more fun.

But I don't engage unarmed players ...

Edited July 19, 2012 by P5ykoOHD

[sandorski 17]

Imgine yourself in a Real Life Zapocalypse ...

Now, you are a lone survivor, looting to survive, have a decent weapon ... you fear for your life, as you only got one.

You come across a "squad" of survivors ... what to do ?

- Stalk them, see if thay are friendly or not and risk getting spotted ?

- Run away from them, avoid any risk ?

- Thay have something you want, need ... thay don't seem to be well armed, so you rob them ?

- You just got out of a gun fight with people trying to rob, kill you ... do not wish to take any risk, so take advantage of the surprise and kill them ?

"The Road" is a very good example of what an apocalupe type scenario could be like, where people kill others to survive (!!! Spoiler !!! remember that scene where a groupe of "bandits" kill a girl running thue a field to eat her ?)

This is what's so cool about the game, the amount of possibilities you have at your disposal.

And believe it or not, in real life, a man will kill another just to make sure he survives another day(z) ...

So yeah, I ersonally consider anyone with a gun as a threat, so I kill them ... (Also mainly cause I have this bad habbit of not carring food on me xD)

I am a role player.

And if my lack of steath gets me spotted, I accept my faith and defend my life like a man, I pitty those who Alt+F4, as thay are truly missing the purpous of this game, and therefor missing all the fun it has to offer. Cause there is nothing better than the adrenaline rush. It's a Hardcore drug, that I am a happy slave of. :P

All well and good, but you can't eat a dead player so a comparison to The Road doesn't work.

[hawc 63]

1. I was playing dayz and I encountered another player.

2. This other player killed me.

3. I didn't like being killed.

4. Make a thread calling everyone who doesn't play like I do a scumbag in RL.

5. Demand removal of pvp because I don't like it and no one should.

Fixed. :lol: