Help me understand the butthurt over PK'ing, Bandits, PvP, killers, etc.

[zipper 69]

There's a big difference between taking a bag of rice for your kids and stealing a plasma tv.

There's a big difference between being desperate and doing something, because you think you can get away with it.

If you think people were only killing because they thought they could get away with it you are sorely mistaken. Katrina was a disaster, in the most literal sense of the word. You should rewatch some of the news stories surrounding the event.

[The_Man 393]

If you really want a place that has very rarely any "shoot on site" then you must establish a community and provide rules. Currently public servers have barely any rules for interactions and is a free for all. You don't need to enforce them but appeal to certain players. Sure you will have a bandit every once in a while engage in a firefight, it is exciting. However, if most of your players are fine with "roleplaying" then interactions will be more common.

I suggest starting a small community if you whine about lack of interaction in public servers. I can't make the effort to start a large community or abide by asinine rules in place by many clans I see on here. I simply mind my own business and enjoy trying to survive on my own. I might grow tired of this and create a group. Not sure.

[zipper 69]

Completely disagree. You don't fail, you're set back 30 minutes.

There are plenty of reasons to cooperate, but not with strangers, because strangers shoot. If you want to experience the random coopteration we saw in the beginning of DayZ, you have to rely on your childhood buddy dave and your twinbrother and meet up on teamspeak, which is ironic, since we finally got direct channel to work ingame.

You don't understand the point of the game then. The entire objective is to survive. If you are alive for 20 minutes and die, you have failed. If you are alive for 20 days and die, you have failed. The objective is to not die. If that is not your primary goal you are going to get shot and lose everything. That might not matter to someone who has only played for 20 minutes, but it more than likely will piss somebody off who has taken the time to get everything they wanted.

Your second comment is pointless. When DayZ started there is obviously going to be a lot more cooperation. There are less people playing so it is easier to build trust amongst each other. When you move from 600 people to 600,000, it is going to be insanely hard building trust with strangers. The problem you are experiencing has nothing to do with the game, the game hasn't changed. It is trust. And the only way you are going to build trust is playing with people you know, or friends of people you know. You simply cannot trust everybody playing the game, and if anything, the growing population has contributed to making the game even more realistic. Groups will not openly accept every single person they see. While they may be willing to help strangers, doing so poses a huge risk. They will likely help the person, and go their separate ways.

We are not playing Hello Kitty Online Island Adventure where everybody makes friends and holds hands. This is a survival simulator. Failing to survive means you lost the game. Granted DayZ is in an Alpha stage and you aren't supposed to get attached to your gear, but if this was a final release, and you end up dying, you essentially set your character back to level zero(i.e. you lost all your gear). You contradict yourself by saying you disagree and say you are only set back 30 minutes. You failed at surviving in the survival simulator. You lost.

[Addicted (DayZ) 32]

I am not sure what game you've been playing, but the only "people" I see teaming up are IRL friends or gamers resorting to meta-gaming.

This does not count, for obvious reasons.

Metagaming. I don't think you think it means what it means.

[dreman04 18]

Metagaming. I don't think you think it means what it means.

He's probably talking about VOIP. I doubt VOIP is intended gameplay, or else we'd be able to send /whisper to our buddies in-game from anywhere on the map.

[Gmanz (DayZ) 13]

if its was real life apoc, human instincts is to team up into groups, so do most of the animals.

if you will see someone in the street in real life apoc. you will not shoot him.

maybe if you are a rare case of scum-psycho-lonewolf-bandit you will...

People do team up...there are hundreds if not thousands of "teams" out there, ranging from 2 people to dozens of people.

Of course all that means is that the people in your team/tribe/clan are your friends: everyone else remains the enemy.

It is very much a tribal kind of a world: if you are not part of the tribe then you are hostile...it is as simple as that.

Personally I have no idea why people complain so much about getting killed in the game: I will assume that it is because they are approaching it with an MMO attitude, in that they expect to be allowed to "level" up to maximum level, and once they reach it they expect to be all-powerful.

[ArrThePirate 13]

Not trollin'

Just curious.

The question

Why is it that so many people come on here super butthurt about how people always shoot them, even if they said they were friendly.

Why I don't get it

Personally, I've always viewed it as a simple fact of life in the zone.Honestly, there's no reason for me to be friendly, and there's no reason for anyone else to be friendly. So I say "may the best man win." When I round a corner and see someone 30 feet away from me, realistically, it's either me or him. That's just how it goes. Expecting different is, in my opinion, ridiculous.

Picture yourself in an apocalyptic situation like this. Maybe you have friends, maybe you don't. You've got a gun, a little ammo, and enough food to last a day or two, maybe.

Suddenly, you see another armed person, just as desperate as you. You gonna just assume he's cool? That there's enough food out there to feed the two of you? Or three, or four? That he's sane, rational, and willing to cooperate?

Hell no, you're going to fucking kill him because you're scared, hungry, and he's got a backpack full of shit you might need.

Social needs be damned, when it comes to basic survival people are willing to give up making friends.

I'm not an asshole

At least I try not to be.

Often, I do try and be friendly. But I'm not a dumbass (not trollin') about it like some of the people I encounter.

I'll call out "Friendly" if:

• I have a big tactical advantage (I can kill them, they can't see/kill me and I don't want their shit)
  
• I am at a big tactical disadvantage (They got the drop on me, I might not be able to kill them)
  
• I'm in a standoff situation (we both failed to kill each other)
  

but I don't expect it to work. I make sure I have a way out, or it's a last resort. I expect them to try and kill me, and I prepare for it.

I don't get mad if they manage to kill me. I didn't die because "the community has gone to shit." I died because I fucked up. And if I kill some dumb bastard because none of those requirements were met, I don't feel the least bit sorry for him. If he'd made better choices he wouldn't be dead. Even if he was unarmed. You never know if he's calling out your location to his buddies. Next time maybe he won't stick his head out.

Thoughts?

It used to piss me off to get killed for nothing, while I was trying to explore and to complete my 'collection' of nice equipment. But that was mainly because I was fairly new to the game and it was quite difficult to find stuff and to make any progress in general. I didn't know exactly where to go and I was, most of the time, a bit careless. As a noob, seeing all your efforts and your progress destroyed by some asshole with a sinper rifle was quite frustrating.

But that has changed after some weeks playing the game. You learn that stuff is relatively easy to find when you know the 'good loot' spots, you learn to be more careful and to move with caution in some areas, you learn how to fight back when some idiot with a makarov tries to kill you, and you learn that all that cool stuff you had when you died, can be replaced in a few hours (2 to 4 hours for me and I have again all the necessary stuff to survive).

I would say that the complaints come from players that are quite new to the game and get to feel the frustration I was talking about, but once they get how the game works, I could bet that they would enjoy some firefights every once in a while because that is one of the more exciting parts of the game.

Edited July 18, 2012 by ArrThePirate

[Gmanz (DayZ) 13]

You don't understand the point of the game then. The entire objective is to survive. If you are alive for 20 minutes and die, you have failed. If you are alive for 20 days and die, you have failed.

Can I just say: I think you have slightly misunderstood the objective of the game: the idea is not to survive indefintely. The idea is to survive "As long as you can". It is meant to be a little like Dwarf-Fortress...your death should be more or less guaranteed. The pleasure is in the story that is attached to each and every life.

I still remember fondly the life of one character: I survived for days...I survived zombie attacks...I was really well equipped...I had survived being shot by a sniper in open ground (my escape and eventual survival being my single best memory so far from my time in DayZ)...It was all going really great, and after suriviving the ambush I felt like I could live forever...then one night, I was running in the dark, in the rain near the lakes to the south of the NorthEast Airbase...visibility was almost zero...I didnt see the rocky ledge that I ran right off, but I did hear the crack of my bones as I fell to my death :)

Now that is a story I told my friends in great detail :)

[dreman04 18]

Can I just say: I think you have slightly misunderstood the objective of the game: the idea is not to survive indefintely. The idea is to survive "As long as you can". It is meant to be a little like Dwarf-Fortress...your death should be more or less guaranteed. The pleasure is in the story that is attached to each and every life.

I still remember fondly the life of one character: I survived for days...I survived zombie attacks...I was really well equipped...I had survived being shot by a sniper in open ground (my escape and eventual survival being my single best memory so far from my time in DayZ)...It was all going really great, and after suriviving the ambush I felt like I could live forever...then one night, I was running in the dark, in the rain near the lakes to the south of the NorthEast Airbase...visibility was almost zero...I didnt see the rocky ledge that I ran right off, but I did hear the crack of my bones as I fell to my death :)

Now that is a story I told my friends in great detail :)

The thread you're looking for: http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/8374-your-stupidest-death/

:P

great story though :)

[Kiro (DayZ) 57]

if you die you can gear up in 10-30minutes and since they only thing we have to show for character progression is gear, there's no difference between a character, who have managed to stay alive for 45minutes and somebody still living at day 45.

So you can find an automatic rifle, blood bags, morphine, compass, map, matches, knife, gps, ghillie suit, sniper and coyote backpack in 45 minutes? Tell me your secrets please.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Kiro

[WalkerDown (DayZ) 296]

Dunno about him.. but i play in clan and when i die i collect back all my stuff almost instantly (a matter of 5 minutes: the time they keep me up with a vehicle again). So i'm not scared to die, this is why i do rambo things... like running with a bike in the middle of the airfield to attract the snipers to shoot at me exposing their position to my mates ... lol.

I recognize this is trolling and it's what is ruining this game.. and i don't care at all, the devs decided that the game should have turned into this (not the players.. since they didn't applied a game mechanic to correct this trolling behaviour. like removing bandit skin; do not penalizing enough the deat.. and such), and so i'm playing it like this.

Dying is not-existant for certain ppl (clan players), collecting gear is extremely easy (matter of minutes) ... it's all about deathmatch.

Do i like this? No. Why i'm cointinuing to play like this? Because there's no alternative (i don't like to respawn every 10 minutes being killed by a noob). What im looking for? For a more mature gameplay.. if there will be one... this is my "butthurt": being "forced" to play CoD with Arma2 engine. :)

[sambody 44]

"Hell no, you're going to fucking kill him because you're scared, hungry, and he's got a backpack full of shit you might need."

No, I hide and see if he is going to pose a real threat against me. Then I shoot if I need to.

[zipper 69]

Can I just say: I think you have slightly misunderstood the objective of the game: the idea is not to survive indefintely. The idea is to survive "As long as you can".

Nobody lives forever. The overall goal is to survive. I'm not sure if English isn't your native language or not, but what you are saying doesn't make a lot of sense. Yes we shouldn't all be sitting in the woods doing nothing, but you should be trying to stay alive as long as you can.

He's probably talking about VOIP. I doubt VOIP is intended gameplay, or else we'd be able to send /whisper to our buddies in-game from anywhere on the map.

From the post Rocket created titled Disconnecting to avoid death.

"

Posted 27 May 2012 - 05:10 AM

I don't know why, but people are assuming that I think this is part of the game.

It's not. I posted in a thread that was talking about that, that META-GAMING is explicitly allowed. I.e. infiltrating teamspeak servers and groups etc...

Disconnecting to avoid death IS an exploit.

It will be patched out, very easily, in a future update. The update is ready to go and will be released when the Beta patch for ArmA2 is out."

[sambody 44]

And just to add. Mostly the butthurt starts to flow in the air when people with good gear and all the items they need starts killing total newbs and people for no reason what so ever.

You can't seriously say theres a good enough reason for doing that.

[dreman04 18]

From the post Rocket created titled Disconnecting to avoid death.

"

Posted 27 May 2012 - 05:10 AM

I don't know why, but people are assuming that I think this is part of the game.

It's not. I posted in a thread that was talking about that, that META-GAMING is explicitly allowed. I.e. infiltrating teamspeak servers and groups etc...

Disconnecting to avoid death IS an exploit.

It will be patched out, very easily, in a future update. The update is ready to go and will be released when the Beta patch for ArmA2 is out."

I'm actually really surprised and disappointed he said that. I don't see how VOIP is any more "realistic" and immersive than a global channel. If he has such a boner for the ArmA engine, shouldn't he encourage people to actually use it with direct channel?

[libertine (DayZ) 2]

2 nights ago ...

spawned in a new toon ... get sniped within 30sec...spawned in again ...get sniped within 120sec ...

my problem with this is that there is nothing I can do about this and also that there is no point to it.

the only thing that my killer could get out of this was a box of a painkillers and a bandage ... and its not as if you spawn in fresh you have a chance of combating these asshats...what am I supposed to do ? throw my flashlight at him or something ?

[Sumdum 29]

I'm actually really surprised and disappointed he said that. I don't see how VOIP is any more "realistic" and immersive than a global channel. If he has such a boner for the ArmA engine, shouldn't he encourage people to actually use it with direct channel?

Until they implement radios or somesuch there's really no way to keep in contact over longer distances, which is also pretty game breaking and unrealistic (and just fucking lame).

Well, with voice chat I mean, before I get 100 people referring me to the chat system lol. Can't type very well when you're taking fire.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Sumdum

[Kiro (DayZ) 57]

2 nights ago ...

spawned in a new toon ... get sniped within 30sec...spawned in again ...get sniped within 120sec ...

my problem with this is that there is nothing I can do about this and also that there is no point to it.

the only thing that my killer could get out of this was a box of a painkillers and a bandage ... and its not as if you spawn in fresh you have a chance of combating these asshats...what am I supposed to do ? throw my flashlight at him or something ?

That was bad luck.

Just go on a different server.

I've played 100 hours and only got sniped once, in an airfield.

[dallas 5195]

So you can find an automatic rifle, blood bags, morphine, compass, map, matches, knife, gps, ghillie suit, sniper and coyote backpack in 45 minutes? Tell me your secrets please.

Pretty much, there's no big secret to it. Both Cherno/Elektro offers a great variety of loot and as long as you know how to move around in cities and don't stay long enough to get cornered, you can pick up the basics. Or you can go to the smaller cities and hitting a few deer stands on the way. Or finally if you have a camp and some firends, you can do very well, very fast.

You don't understand the point of the game then. The entire objective is to survive. If you are alive for 20 minutes and die, you have failed. If you are alive for 20 days and die, you have failed. The objective is to not die. If that is not your primary goal you are going to get shot and lose everything. That might not matter to someone who has only played for 20 minutes, but it more than likely will piss somebody off who has taken the time to get everything they wanted.

Your second comment is pointless. When DayZ started there is obviously going to be a lot more cooperation. There are less people playing so it is easier to build trust amongst each other. When you move from 600 people to 600,000, it is going to be insanely hard building trust with strangers. The problem you are experiencing has nothing to do with the game, the game hasn't changed. It is trust. And the only way you are going to build trust is playing with people you know, or friends of people you know. You simply cannot trust everybody playing the game, and if anything, the growing population has contributed to making the game even more realistic. Groups will not openly accept every single person they see. While they may be willing to help strangers, doing so poses a huge risk. They will likely help the person, and go their separate ways.

We are not playing Hello Kitty Online Island Adventure where everybody makes friends and holds hands. This is a survival simulator. Failing to survive means you lost the game. Granted DayZ is in an Alpha stage and you aren't supposed to get attached to your gear, but if this was a final release, and you end up dying, you essentially set your character back to level zero(i.e. you lost all your gear). You contradict yourself by saying you disagree and say you are only set back 30 minutes. You failed at surviving in the survival simulator. You lost.

Doesn't matter if you fail, you might lose some nvgs, but you really don't need them much, unless you're into PvP. You can be up and runnng with an alice pack, handgun, rifle and basic survival gear in no time and If you got a squad on teamspeak, you can have top gear in no time.

My problem is survival isn't the focus, gear is. That's why to kill other people, just in case they might have something you need or to prevent them from taking yours. Life and death doesn't matter, it's a minor inconvenience and thus bandits become survivors and survivors become bandits. The struggle for humanity is no longer a part of the gameplay, which was what made DayZ interesting to begin with.

Any end-of-world tale revolve about the lost of humanity and the struggle to rediscover it. When the psychos get to reign suppreme, decent and humane people have to struggle twice as hard to survive, without needless killing, canibalism, rape ect. However DayZ currently are enforcing a culture where mankind of spiraling down the toilet, where the majority think the purpose of the game is to kill other people, not to survive.

I'm not arguing for the removal of PvP. I'm just pointing about that the humanity aspect of the game has dissappeared among strangers, that cooperation mainly exists between groups outside the game, in preexisting communities/clans and teamspeak. That what made DayZ "The Road," was the struggle and mistrust, has been lost and DayZ has become "Braindead."

Why fix direct channel, if teamspeak/vent/mumble/skype is mandatory.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Dallas

[zipper 69]

I'm actually really surprised and disappointed he said that. I don't see how VOIP is any more "realistic" and immersive than a global channel. If he has such a boner for the ArmA engine, shouldn't he encourage people to actually use it with direct channel?

Because douchebags spam global channel with crappy music, or just don't shut up themselves and continuously spam it. VOIP is a core part of PC gaming. It is available to everyone, and won't ever go away.

Pretty much, there's no big secret to it. Both Cherno/Elektro offers a great variety of loot and as long as you know how to move around in cities and don't stay long enough to get cornered, you can pick up the basics. Or you can go to the smaller cities and hitting a few deer stands on the way. Or finally if you have a camp and some firends, you can do very well, very fast.

Doesn't matter if you fail, you might lose some nvgs, but you really don't need them much, unless you're into PvP. You can be up and runnng with an alice pack, handgun, rifle and basic survival gear in no time and If you got a squad on teamspeak, you can have top gear in no time.

My problem is survival isn't the focus, gear is. That's why to kill other people, just in case they might have something you need or to prevent them from taking yours. Life and death doesn't matter, it's a minor inconvenience and thus bandits become survivors and survivors become bandits. The struggle for humanity is no longer a part of the gameplay, which was what made DayZ interesting to begin with.

Any end-of-world tale revolve about the lost of humanity and the struggle to rediscover it. When the psychos get to reign suppreme, decent and humane people have to struggle twice as hard to survive, without needless killing, canibalism, rape ect. However DayZ currently are enforcing a culture where mankind of spiraling down the toilet, where the majority think the purpose of the game is to kill other people, not to survive.

I'm not arguing for the removal of PvP. I'm just pointing about that the humanity aspect of the game has dissappeared among strangers, that cooperation mainly exists between groups outside the game, in preexisting communities/clans and teamspeak. That what made DayZ "The Road," was the struggle and mistrust, has been lost and DayZ has become "Braindead."

Why fix direct channel, if teamspeak/vent/mumble/skype is mandatory.

It has been mentioned by Rocket himself that the gear and inventory system is currently DayZ's leveling device. Every game has some way to progress, you do it with gear in DayZ. If all you are getting to survive is a enfield and a makorav, it is no wonder you are upset about PvP. You want people to place blind faith in almost 700,000 players now. It will not happen. This was totally possible when DayZ only had 100 players, and those days are long gone now.

You ask why fix it? Because 3rd party VOIP doesn't communicate with strangers in game. What do you want people to do, type out the TS information in chat and wait for the person to join, just so they can ask if he is friendly?

You say DayZ is enforcing a culture with mankind spiraling down the toilet. DayZ isn't enforcing anything. Have you watched the news in the last ten years? Mankind is well past the toilet at this point. All DayZ did was let those same people play a game together.

[skyter 299]

Not trollin'

Just curious.

The question

Why is it that so many people come on here super butthurt about how people always shoot them, even if they said they were friendly.

The Answer: expect them to try and kill me

look you answered your own question.

It's a problem because there is no uneasy tension anymore where you think "maybe this guy is friendly"

It's gone. Curiosity was replaced with a shoot on site order because there is no sense of weight to killing another player, only fearing for the gear you're carrying.

Edited July 19, 2012 by skyter