Help me understand the butthurt over PK'ing, Bandits, PvP, killers, etc.

[ElemenoP 60]

Not trollin'

Just curious.

The question

Why is it that so many people come on here super butthurt about how people always shoot them, even if they said they were friendly.

Why I don't get it

Personally, I've always viewed it as a simple fact of life in the zone.Honestly, there's no reason for me to be friendly, and there's no reason for anyone else to be friendly. So I say "may the best man win." When I round a corner and see someone 30 feet away from me, realistically, it's either me or him. That's just how it goes. Expecting different is, in my opinion, ridiculous.

Picture yourself in an apocalyptic situation like this. Maybe you have friends, maybe you don't. You've got a gun, a little ammo, and enough food to last a day or two, maybe.

Suddenly, you see another armed person, just as desperate as you. You gonna just assume he's cool? That there's enough food out there to feed the two of you? Or three, or four? That he's sane, rational, and willing to cooperate?

Hell no, you're going to fucking kill him because you're scared, hungry, and he's got a backpack full of shit you might need.

Social needs be damned, when it comes to basic survival people are willing to give up making friends.

I'm not an asshole

At least I try not to be.

Often, I do try and be friendly. But I'm not a dumbass (not trollin') about it like some of the people I encounter.

I'll call out "Friendly" if:

• I have a big tactical advantage (I can kill them, they can't see/kill me and I don't want their shit)
  
• I am at a big tactical disadvantage (They got the drop on me, I might not be able to kill them)
  
• I'm in a standoff situation (we both failed to kill each other)
  

but I don't expect it to work. I make sure I have a way out, or it's a last resort. I expect them to try and kill me, and I prepare for it.

I don't get mad if they manage to kill me. I didn't die because "the community has gone to shit." I died because I fucked up. And if I kill some dumb bastard because none of those requirements were met, I don't feel the least bit sorry for him. If he'd made better choices he wouldn't be dead. Even if he was unarmed. You never know if he's calling out your location to his buddies. Next time maybe he won't stick his head out.

Thoughts?

Edited July 18, 2012 by ElemenoP

[Lapis 4]

+1

[Benlandia 73]

I don't get butthurt by people killing me. I just tried to start a new character today and was killed either on the coast or in a costal town by players carrying mil-spec gear. I must have died 10 times in 4 different servers before I just gave up.

The problem people have is that since the game has no significant end-game content there is nothing left to do but shoot other people along the coastline. Once you've mastered the art of scavenging, avoiding zombies, building camps, and repairing vehicles, there's not much left.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Benlandia

[Sumdum 29]

Meh, people want to work together and survive or some shit, not get shot at by everyone. Wonderful concept in a game where there's a strong enough challenge from the world itself, but in DayZ it's almost always the assholes still breathing that end your run. So why extend a helping hand? Like you said, if my gunsights have you dead to rights and I call "friendly," you better get with the program - any other situation is really just too risky anymore for the friend-or-foe, let's work together dynamic.

Can always get lucky I suppose though.

[Ankhenaten 111]

It means the experience works, you care about stuff.

The more people care about not being killed, getting their priced Megablaster gun taken away, the more emotionally attached they are and the bigger the reaction will be.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Ankhenaten

[doom4mr 135]

if its was real life apoc, human instincts is to team up into groups, so do most of the animals.

if you will see someone in the street in real life apoc. you will not shoot him.

maybe if you are a rare case of scum-psycho-lonewolf-bandit you will...

[skyter 299]

Not trollin'

Just curious.

The question

Why is it that so many people come on here super butthurt about how people always shoot them, even if they said they were friendly.

Why I don't get it

Personally, I've always viewed it as a simple fact of life in the zone.Honestly, there's no reason for me to be friendly, and there's no reason for anyone else to be friendly. So I say "may the best man win." When I round a corner and see someone 30 feet away from me, realistically, it's either me or him. That's just how it goes. Expecting different is, in my opinion, ridiculous.

Picture yourself in an apocalyptic situation like this. Maybe you have friends, maybe you don't. You've got a gun, a little ammo, and enough food to last a day or two, maybe.

Suddenly, you see another armed person, just as desperate as you. You gonna just assume he's cool? That there's enough food out there to feed the two of you? Or three, or four? That he's sane, rational, and willing to cooperate?

Hell no, you're going to fucking kill him because you're scared, hungry, and he's got a backpack full of shit you might need.

Social needs be damned, when it comes to basic survival people are willing to give up making friends.

I'm not an asshole

At least I try not to be.

Often, I do try and be friendly. But I'm not a dumbass (not trollin') about it like some of the people I encounter.

I'll call out "Friendly" if:

• I have a big tactical advantage (I can kill them, they can't see/kill me and I don't want their shit)
  
• I am at a big tactical disadvantage (They got the drop on me, I might not be able to kill them)
  
• I'm in a standoff situation (we both failed to kill each other)
  

but I don't expect it to work. I make sure I have a way out, or it's a last resort. I expect them to try and kill me, and I prepare for it.

I don't get mad if they manage to kill me. I didn't die because "the community has gone to shit." I died because I fucked up. And if I kill some dumb bastard because none of those requirements were met, I don't feel the least bit sorry for him. If he'd made better choices he wouldn't be dead. Even if he was unarmed. You never know if he's calling out your location to his buddies. Next time maybe he won't stick his head out.

Thoughts?

no. there are campers everywhere. it isn't a matter of fucking up, but of other people purposely being asshole.

IE

I got shot in my camp today 4 times with a sniper, unarmed, putting meat away.

Asshole loots my camp, which is fine, then goes a step further and puts map markers all over my camp reading "clan supplies here"

"weapon cache" "supplies"

it's fucking infuriating.

[robo (DayZ) 7]

Bullshit.

You're going to beg that person to help you find food/water/shelter and live longer together.

Anyone who thinks they're going to be so tough and heartless in a real disaster, catastrophe or apocalypse is a total moron. Of course when Red Cross or whatever relief comes (which of course it will), they will still help your dumb, murdering ass without fail.

-robo

[SpecFour 12]

Check into Immanuel Kant and his philosophical doctrine of categorical imperative.

Man is not a beast. Man is set apart from beasts, and thermostats, by our ability to reason, and free will. Dogs hump your leg because they are driven by desire, not reason. Thermostats turn on, because they are driven by physics, not reason or free will.

Man is not so driven, and should get his head out of his ass and act like it.

That is, you do not shoot people on site, because using that as your categorical imperative means everyone just kills everyone. That is the rule of the jungle, not man. See also, Queen v Dudley and Stephens [1884] 14 Queen's Bench 273 (The Lifeboat Case, or why you cannot kill and eat the cabin boy.)

A more widespread statement of categorical imperative, blasted across every chalkboard I remember as a child, is the Golden Rule - Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

As long as you expect other people to shoot you on site and you aren't going to bitch about it like a little girl, "Shoot on site" works. There are those of us that think Man is made of sterner stuff than a dog humping a stuffed animal, however. But, there are certainly those among us who clearly have nothing else going for them than stuffed animal humping.

I had a buddy in high school who was a world class stuffed animal humper, and he is still a POS.

[zipper 69]

I don't get mad if they manage to kill me. I didn't die because "the community has gone to shit." I died because I fucked up. And if I kill some dumb bastard because none of those requirements were met, I don't feel the least bit sorry for him. If he'd made better choices he wouldn't be dead. Even if he was unarmed. You never know if he's calling out your location to his buddies. Next time maybe he won't stick his head out.

The reason so many people come on the forums and whine about PvP is because they fail to understand this.

if its was real life apoc, human instincts is to team up into groups, so do most of the animals.

if you will see someone in the street in real life apoc. you will not shoot him.

maybe if you are a rare case of scum-psycho-lonewolf-bandit you will...

People do team up, and they form groups. And these groups will eventually defend themselves against threats. Not everyone is going to be welcomed into the group. If you are going to use some BS reasoning you should at least understand how what you are talking about works.

Check into Immanuel Kant and his philosophical doctrine of categorical imperative.

Man is not a beast. Man is set apart from beasts, and thermostats, by our ability to reason, and free will. Dogs hump your leg because they are driven by desire, not reason. Thermostats turn on, because they are driven by physics, not reason or free will.

Man is not so driven, and should get his head out of his ass and act like it.

That is, you do not shoot people on site, because using that as your categorical imperative means everyone just kills everyone. That is the rule of the jungle, not man. See also, Queen v Dudley and Stephens [1884] 14 Queen's Bench 273 (The Lifeboat Case, or why you cannot kill and eat the cabin boy.)

A more widespread statement of categorical imperative, blasted across every chalkboard I remember as a child, is the Golden Rule - Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

As long as you expect other people to shoot you on site and you aren't going to bitch about it like a little girl, "Shoot on site" works. There are those of us that think Man is made of sterner stuff than a dog humping a stuffed animal, however. But, there are certainly those among us who clearly have nothing else going for them than stuffed animal humping.

I had a buddy in high school who was a world class stuffed animal humper, and he is still a POS.

So answer this. When do you draw the limit? How many people will you take in before you run out of food? Water? Medical supplies? Guns? Ammo? It is in mans nature to work together, you are correct. This is largely because we have the ability to reason. But that ability to reason will also force us to push people away. Having 500,000 people in your group does no good if they are all sick, starving and dehydrated. At some point, you have to draw the line. And people aren't going to understand why you took the last 5 people without a problem, but now you can't take them. They will try to force their way into your group, completely abandoning reason, and they will kill you if need be. This is when you get rid of reason, and you defend yourself by killing them.

You don't just reference things without completely understanding them, and if you did completely understand it, then you are intentionally leaving parts of it out. People will naturally group with others until the group is strong. The stronger the group gets, the more people it can take in. Taking in people does not make the group stronger, it is what the group does to strengthen themselves while they do not take newcomers. Nature will correct the size of your group if it is too big. Nature will make your group the right size for you to succeed with what you currently have, and it is up to man if the group size will get any bigger or not.

What you are proposing is a simplistic hippie driven mindset. "Lets all gather together and hold hands out in the forest." That isn't how survival works. Survival scenarios are cold, unforgiving, and ruthless. Often times the ability to reason is cast aside when survival is the number one concern. When that happens, you are going to find a lot more hostile people.

For all of you saying it is peoples natural instinct to work together in an apocalypse, you have no idea what people will do in that situation. People act completely irrational when presented with extreme situations. That very reason is what will cause some of us to still be alive, because it drives us to our most basic survival instincts. So cut the crap with all the boo hoo people wouldn't shoot each other BS. You have no idea what would actually happen, and you have no idea why it is they were put into the position to shoot you. More often than not you will find it was YOUR fault that you ended up being shot, not theirs.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Zipper -82ndAB-

[Ankhenaten 111]

- Gaming since before you were born...

Precoital gaming, interesting. :D

[Necrofix 16]

Meh, people want to work together and survive or some shit, not get shot at by everyone. Wonderful concept in a game where there's a strong enough challenge from the world itself

You must be joking, surviving provide no challenge at all once you understand the basics and that doens't take longer than a few hours.

[Jonny Sniper 0]

Check into Immanuel Kant and his philosophical doctrine of categorical imperative.

Man is not a beast. Man is set apart from beasts, and thermostats, by our ability to reason, and free will. Dogs hump your leg because they are driven by desire, not reason. Thermostats turn on, because they are driven by physics, not reason or free will.

Man is not so driven, and should get his head out of his ass and act like it.

That is, you do not shoot people on site, because using that as your categorical imperative means everyone just kills everyone. That is the rule of the jungle, not man. See also, Queen v Dudley and Stephens [1884] 14 Queen's Bench 273 (The Lifeboat Case, or why you cannot kill and eat the cabin boy.)

A more widespread statement of categorical imperative, blasted across every chalkboard I remember as a child, is the Golden Rule - Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

As long as you expect other people to shoot you on site and you aren't going to bitch about it like a little girl, "Shoot on site" works. There are those of us that think Man is made of sterner stuff than a dog humping a stuffed animal, however. But, there are certainly those among us who clearly have nothing else going for them than stuffed animal humping.

I had a buddy in high school who was a world class stuffed animal humper, and he is still a POS.

Nicely done Sir, nicely done.

[Food 309]

I don't get butthurt by people killing me. I just tried to start a new character today and was killed either on the coast or in a costal town by players carrying mil-spec gear. I must have died 10 times in 4 different servers before I just gave up.

The problem people have is that since the game has no significant end-game content there is nothing left to do but shoot other people along the coastline. Once you've mastered the art of scavenging, avoiding zombies, building camps, and repairing vehicles, there's not much left.

Then don't go into the cities... You complain about dying yet you don't try to avoid the very place that keeps getting you killed. It doesn't make any sense, and I think it's your own damn fault for getting killed.

[gizm0 96]

well I can say that from my personal experience. Is when you start out you have no idea whats going on, and my first thought was get some help from the first person I meet. So I go running along the coast and no clue where I am,

I come across a city which I don't learn till later is electro. Well I meet a guy at the hospital but we didn't speak the same language, so i walk away and climb the ladder and than on the roof I see another person but before I can type, he shoots me dead.

This was way back before direct chat was working. When I died, I made a point that I will never kill someone who doesn't shoot me.However the kill has left me very biased against bandits.

[teih 36]

People do team up, and they form groups.

I am not sure what game you've been playing, but the only "people" I see teaming up are IRL friends or gamers resorting to meta-gaming.

This does not count, for obvious reasons.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Teih

[ElemenoP 60]

Bullshit.

You're going to beg that person to help you find food/water/shelter and live longer together.

Anyone who thinks they're going to be so tough and heartless in a real disaster, catastrophe or apocalypse is a total moron. Of course when Red Cross or whatever relief comes (which of course it will), they will still help your dumb, murdering ass without fail.

-robo

It's not about being tough and heartless man.

In a real life zombie apocalypse, I'd probably get wasted by patient zero.

What it's about is survival. After natural disasters people go apeshit. They kill one another, they loot, they steal and so on. Yes, a lot of people band together, but after national distasters most people are still alive. And they still kill one another, because they're scared.

In the apocalypse, where there is no red cross, shit gets even worse. Once the food stops being manufactured, you think people are gonna play nice? When your community loses not 2% of the population, but 98% of it, you think the survivors will share the scraps and sing campfire songs?

Hell naw.

no. there are campers everywhere. it isn't a matter of fucking up, but of other people purposely being asshole.

IE

I got shot in my camp today 4 times with a sniper, unarmed, putting meat away.

Asshole loots my camp, which is fine, then goes a step further and puts map markers all over my camp reading "clan supplies here"

"weapon cache" "supplies"

it's fucking infuriating.

Yep, some people are assholes.

You shouldn't visit your camp without a weapon.

You should have checked your surroundings before you started putting your meat away.

You had your guard down, weren't paying attention, and likely led the sniper to your camp.

Yeah, that guy put tags on your tents. He's probably a dick.

However, if You hadn't fucked up so many times, you wouldn't have died.

if its was real life apoc, human instincts is to team up into groups, so do most of the animals.

if you will see someone in the street in real life apoc. you will not shoot him.

maybe if you are a rare case of scum-psycho-lonewolf-bandit you will...

You're saying this through the perspective of someone with food in his belly and a roof over your head.

Imagine what you'd do after a week without food and a gun in your hands, when a guy with a bigger gun and a backpack full of beans walks past.

It means the experience works, you care about stuff.

The more people care about not being killed, getting their priced Megablaster gun taken away, the more emotionally attached they are and the bigger the reaction will be.

Exactly, people get super attached, but then get surprised when being inferior (because if you get killed, that's the honest Darwinist truth) gets them killed.

Edited July 18, 2012 by ElemenoP

[skyter 299]

You must be joking, surviving provide no challenge at all once you understand the basics and that doens't take longer than a few hours.

that's up to the game to change it, not fill that void completely with mindless PvP and camping.

It's like playing skyrim, beating the whole thing and then murdering entire towns because "you're bored and there's nothing left to do, so why not?"

except in this case the villagers are infuriated players who you just instilled the shoot on site mind set in. Or worse, were just turned off the game for ever.

[lowerplains 0]

because the mere play style of "survivial" gets annoying after a few play throughs. there is no other excitement once you learn the zombies or places where loot spawns the most etc. the game just needs more to do. and alot of good ideas are in the suggestion forums.

so it pretty much boils down to a deathmatch type of arena game. it is what it is at the end of the day. thats the end result of this "anti game".

give more stuff to do and people will keep playing happily.

as far as my personal in game experiences, i could care less if a bandit gets me. i know where to go to avoid most of em, lol they ALWAYS go to the same spots/towns. usually if im nabbed by one im in one of those places and am barely even geared, they waste their time with me. easy peasy.

[Ankhenaten 111]

Anthropophagy:

All of the passengers were Roman Catholic. According to Read, some equated the act of cannibalism to the ritual of Holy Communion. Others initially had reservations, though after realizing that it was their only means of staying alive, changed their minds a few days later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_Andes_flight_disaster

Edited July 18, 2012 by Ankhenaten

[doom4mr 135]

You're saying this through the perspective of someone with food in his belly and a roof over your head.

Imagine what you'd do after a week without food and a gun in your hands, when a guy with a bigger gun and a backpack full of beans walks past.

reasonable argument.

I was speaking about the "simple" situation, if you see someone in the street.

in this case I think its depends on personality, also if you dont kill this men he may lead you to his group where will be a lot of food and not one meal that you will get after killing him.

I'll just say its depends on personality.

and each time I play DayZ I see how that Rocket was right about that real human instincts and nature is there.

oh got to go sleep its morning now :| wtf

Edited July 18, 2012 by DooM4MR

[KField86 237]

Absolutely, positively, 100% agree with the OP, and it's the exact same mindset I have when approaching the game.

[Ozark 3]

Check into Immanuel Kant and his philosophical doctrine of categorical imperative.

Man is not a beast. Man is set apart from beasts, and thermostats, by our ability to reason, and free will. Dogs hump your leg because they are driven by desire, not reason. Thermostats turn on, because they are driven by physics, not reason or free will.

Man is not so driven, and should get his head out of his ass and act like it.

That is, you do not shoot people on site, because using that as your categorical imperative means everyone just kills everyone. That is the rule of the jungle, not man. See also, Queen v Dudley and Stephens [1884] 14 Queen's Bench 273 (The Lifeboat Case, or why you cannot kill and eat the cabin boy.)

A more widespread statement of categorical imperative, blasted across every chalkboard I remember as a child, is the Golden Rule - Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

As long as you expect other people to shoot you on site and you aren't going to bitch about it like a little girl, "Shoot on site" works. There are those of us that think Man is made of sterner stuff than a dog humping a stuffed animal, however. But, there are certainly those among us who clearly have nothing else going for them than stuffed animal humping.

I had a buddy in high school who was a world class stuffed animal humper, and he is still a POS.

What a very well written post! And you make a good point. Even is dire situations people are still driven by higher reasoning. Certainly people in desperate situations will do unreasonable things, but most rational people in survival scenarios understand that the safest way to survive is in groups. This can be seen all throughout human history. Tribes, hunting parties, and etc, all well established forms of human survival. While in times of lawlessness people will definitely kill one another, but they most likely will be in groups. "Lone Wolves" tend not to fare well.

Unfortunately Dayz currently gives no incentives for the need to gather together to accomplish goals.

[daze23 549]

I shoot people to test the pvp mechanics :D

[Kar98 27]

I believe the main reason is because alot of people only bought arma 2 for Day z. So in their eyes they've paid $30 for a game and feel entitled to an opinion and what they think is unfair and ruining the $30 that they spent, when in actual fact they've bought a game and there is a nice free addon on top of that