How to end Ganking, and support Honor [ v ]

[nineSTRIKE 9]

"I bet you're one of the shitheads that sits in the hillside sniping unarmed people. I dont think it was meant that 95% of players were all supposed to be bandits. GTFO."

I can still hear the blood pouring out of your chest, tell me... How many cans did you loose lol?

[daizy 2]

99% of all people talking they would kill everyone they see in a zombie apocalype would cower in a corner afraid of the dark. All tough talking thanks to anonymity the internet. Of course it is difficult to trust a complete stranger rather than someone in your street but everyone can be a valuable asset and since mankind was able to think, even earlier they always created groupls in order to increase survivability. Lone wolves just die, this is not a hollywood movie where Rambo only needa machinegun and enough ammo to mow down thousands of VC in the jungle.

Most ppl don't act like this because they only thing it's a shooter.

And here we come to the main point. You're not being able to stick in groups or have a "normal conversation" before your opponent shoots you down! Every time when I see other players and try to chat with them, they chase me like an animal *lmao*. So since this day I can't trust anyone more. The surprising thing in ths whole story is that I haven't kill anynone yet. But if this going on I'm not be able to be always the hunted animal, furthermore become myself a hunter ...

[Arainasc 19]

And here we come to the main point. You're not being able to stick in groups or have a "normal conversation" before your opponent shoots you down! Every time when I see other players and try to chat with them, they chase me like an animal *lmao*. So since this day I can't trust anyone more. The surprising thing in ths whole story is that I haven't kill anynone yet. But if this going on I'm not be able to be always the hunted animal, furthermore become myself a hunter ...

And now you come to the part of my post I warned players about, the cycle of Hatred. Further breeding distrust, and everyone is suspect.

Player 2 tries to help Player 1 from being mauled by zombies, only to be shot and looted for valuables. Now disgruntled, player 2 instinctively shoots player 3, who was unarmed and only in search for a water source. Player 3, Who in turn will never trust anyone ever again and begins his own cycle of distrust...etc etc etc.

[starwarsfan@gmx.de 450]

It's funny that everyone thinks they have the perfect answer for what this game is meant to be like.

This is a game free of artificial boundries and the creator himself has said that it is a social experiment(if I recall correctly).

You will never find a real solution for this problem without destroying the freedom this game provides at the moment, as the problem lies not within the game but the people who play it.

As much as this games tries to simulate a real life enviroment and stituation it will never reach that certain point where you actually have to make moral choices that matter. It is a game and not real life, which is reflected in player behaviour. All those people who call themselves 'Bandits' and shoot on sight, they would never do that in real life(at least 99%of them) because there you have actual consequences and the dilema that when you kill someone they are dead and do not just respawn without equipment. That is just something that you cannot simulate and that is why this will never end.

The only way you can fight against this mentality is by being a so called 'Carebear', help those in need and risk being shot and betrayed time and time again. Some people will actually feel sorry for shooting you which can then lead to a subtle change in their behaviour. But this is not a quick solution and will most likely fail as even the nicest people tend to be dicks when they know they're anonymous.

tl;dr

People suck, especially on the interwebs. Live with it.

[zipper 69]

And here we come to the main point. You're not being able to stick in groups or have a "normal conversation" before your opponent shoots you down! Every time when I see other players and try to chat with them, they chase me like an animal *lmao*. So since this day I can't trust anyone more. The surprising thing in ths whole story is that I haven't kill anynone yet. But if this going on I'm not be able to be always the hunted animal, furthermore become myself a hunter ...

Or you could just stop running up to everyone and trying to have a normal conversation with them.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

If what you are doing isn't working, the game doesn't need to be changed. YOU need to change. If you think that means shoot everything that moves, that is your problem. There are plenty of people who understand the value of playing in a group. They manage to succeed in doing so because they adapted to the game, not the other way around.

If you aren't going to change the way you play either get really good at playing by yourself, or get used to respawning on the beach on a regular basis.

I bet youre one of the shitheads that sits in the hillside sniping unarmed people. I dont think it was meant that 95% of players were all supposed to be bandits. GTFO.

Please tell me where you get your statistics from.

[andy_uk15@hotmail.com 70]

The only real way to curb player killing (but not solve it) is to make the environment MUCH more hostile. People may prefer to save their ammo for zeds rather than shooting for fun. Of course this will not prevent banditry - but it will probably stop new, unarmed players from being shot when there are bigger fish to fry.

[Arainasc 19]

The only real way to curb player killing (but not solve it) is to make the environment MUCH more hostile. People may prefer to save their ammo for zeds rather than shooting for fun. Of course this will not prevent banditry - but it will probably stop new, unarmed players from being shot when there are bigger fish to fry.

I wouldn't mind this in the least. Hell, if you come across a server that can support 2500 Zed's, send me the name :).

[daizy 2]

Or you could just stop running up to everyone and trying to have a normal conversation with them.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

If what you are doing isn't working, the game doesn't need to be changed. YOU need to change. If you think that means shoot everything that moves, that is your problem. There are plenty of people who understand the value of playing in a group. They manage to succeed in doing so because they adapted to the game, not the other way around.

If you aren't going to change the way you play either get really good at playing by yourself, or get used to respawning on the beach on a regular basis.

It's not the point how good/bad I or other gamers play and I never talked about I'm the insane dumbass guy, it's more the fact that this things happened. There are many factors which have a quite influence of the situation and often you can't change things how they are. It's a lucky game whether you get a nice friendly opponent or a bandit who will kill you. I'm not a mentalist so I can't know what the others are thinking.

I also agree with @James Ashwood.

At least (fortunately) it's a game, I think in real life the most of you wouldn't kill somone because of a can of beans, otherwise there is something wrong ethics. Therefore you haven't to constitute with the realistic aspect by killing somone because of food, that's absurd. However I can understand those who have been killed while they are unarmed, seems to be we have to accept that there are some dumbass killing unarmed people (at this issue you haven't to argue with me, it's fact).

[enforcer1975 1111]

Please tell me where you get your statistics from.

Maybe he is reffering to the feeling he has that there are a lot of people who want to go on a killing spree but are killed before they are marked as murderer by the system and therefore not listed in the statistics. If you would add "wanting to become a murderer attempts / already killed in my last life and will continue with this type of play" to murderers i bet there would be a lot.

A lot of murderer players can shoot but most wannabe snipers can't score a hit.

[Madfast 22]

Ignoring the fact that punishing/rewarding one style of gameplay over another is never going to happen. If this did happen there is a large problem, you touched on this a bit saying how "dogtags" wouldn't be lootable to stop bandits abusing the system, I can just sit on a hill 1km away with a sniper rifle and as the players walk out with there shiny new weapon I could drop them and collect that shiny new weapon for myself. This would then lead to people avoiding these areas as they would become even bigger hot spots for murder than anything currently around. You are creating an area where bandits will know they can get guaranteed loot with minimal work.

[enforcer1975 1111]

It's not like the "sniper" is interested in the players loot or the weapon anyway...just the kill. What's a better weapon than a scoped rifle?

[Madfast 22]

It's not like the "sniper" is interested in the players loot or the weapon anyway...just the kill. What's a better weapon than a scoped rifle?

I only kill for loot, and I am sure I am not the only one. And it is not just the weapon, if there was such a place as the OP suggested that gave out all kinds of rare loot I guarantee people would kill people for it. Also it is always nice to have a good backup weapon in your bag and to collect weapons and store them in a tent. Also even assuming that snipers are only interested in the kill, it would still create a focal point on the map where a lot of players congregate meaning an easy supply of "kills" for said sniper. An idea meant to encourage team play and reduce KOS and banditry is not going to work if it creates an area full of people and loot ripe for the picking. If you are presented with 2 options to get something you want, one requires a not insubstantial amount of risk and is time consuming and another requires very little risk and is quick, most people will pick the later option.

[Bob Doad 0]

I dont see this being implemented but I do agree. Bandits do not support realism. Why? Because I doubt many of people who play this could kill another human being in cold blood. Additionally, because people betray new players the new players become bandits too and its an annoying cycle. The game encourages large bandit parties and then the few people who want to have fun and fight zombies cant go to places where there will be cool loot. Idk its just frustrating because either everyone is some sort of ex-military, dickhead, who has killed enough people to feel no guilt OR this game supports unrealistic behavior.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Bob Doad

[zipper 69]

Maybe he is reffering to the feeling he has that there are a lot of people who want to go on a killing spree but are killed before they are marked as murderer by the system and therefore not listed in the statistics. If you would add "wanting to become a murderer attempts / already killed in my last life and will continue with this type of play" to murderers i bet there would be a lot.

A lot of murderer players can shoot but most wannabe snipers can't score a hit.

So 95% of the community is just killing each other on a regular basis? That number seems pretty far off from the 14% that Vipeax confirmed. So far off that it seems like a completely made up statistic with no numbers to back it up.

It's not the point how good/bad I or other gamers play and I never talked about I'm the insane dumbass guy, it's more the fact that this things happened. There are many factors which have a quite influence of the situation and often you can't change things how they are. It's a lucky game whether you get a nice friendly opponent or a bandit who will kill you. I'm not a mentalist so I can't know what the others are thinking.

I also agree with @James Ashwood.

At least (fortunately) it's a game, I think in real life the most of you wouldn't kill somone because of a can of beans, otherwise there is something wrong ethics. Therefore you haven't to constitute with the realistic aspect by killing somone because of food, that's absurd. However I can understand those who have been killed while they are unarmed, seems to be we have to accept that there are some dumbass killing unarmed people (at this issue you haven't to argue with me, it's fact).

And you are failing to see my point. If you are walking up to people yelling friendly, and you keep getting shot, you should expect to continue to get shot if you continue to do the same thing. The only luck revolving around this game is what loot happens to spawn when you go into specific areas. Every other aspect of the game can be controlled by you. The game requires patience and the ability to think before you act. If you take the time to do both of those things you will find your time alive going up at a rapid pace. No one forces you to go into the middle of Electro to get a weapon. You could have just as easily found one in a barn. If you are getting sniped, you should have taken a bit more time to observe your surroundings. There are obviously limitations within the game right now, like people spawning in areas you have already checked and confirmed to be clear, but you cannot control that. The best you could do is provide an overwatch for whatever you are doing, and hope he is able to find the person spawning in before he finds you.

If you continue to have difficulty with player interaction, you need to change the way you interact with players. The game developers do not need to jump in and create a brand new system. If you have a problem, figure out a way to solve it. There are two forums on this website that are dedicated to helping people group together if you don't have friends to play with. Use them, or figure out how to survive on your own. Use the tools available to you.

Edited July 15, 2012 by Zipper -82ndAB-

[zipper 69]

Idk its just frustrating because either everyone is some sort of ex-military, dickhead, who has killed enough people to feel no guilt OR this game supports unrealistic behavior.

People that go to war for their country are now dickheads. Thanks for your wonderful input.

[disorder 344]

The trust isn't there because of the open/non consequences nature of servers.

This really boils down to PVP vs non-PVP servers again, give admins the ability to actually control and you won't even need to do what you've suggested. Just need more power to admins, to make and enforce their own rules.

[zipper 69]

Removing PvP is not an option. One, it would kill the entire point of the game. Two, it has already been posted that it isn't an option.

Since people in this thread seem to lack an understanding on the benefits of team play, please read this thread.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/index.php?/topic/8526-incentives-to-cooperative-play/

[enforcer1975 1111]

So 95% of the community is just killing each other on a regular basis? That number seems pretty far off from the 14% that Vipeax confirmed. So far off that it seems like a completely made up statistic with no numbers to back it up.

I only had one non hostile encounter with an unknown player ever since i started playing. Every other encounter me or a fellow player was either killed or at least they attempted to - we never attacked first unless it was obvious that a player was planning something like moving prone to our position. This is how most ppl experience the game otherwise they wouldn't be complaining. Unless you belong to that part that shoots players regardless if they have potential loot or not or are just unlucky to run into your crosshairs even if they aren't a threat to you, which i think you are otherwise you wouldn't be denying 100% of the thread.

[zipper 69]

I am denying that 95% of the people who play the game are bandits because it isn't true. Just because you have bad luck doesn't mean everyone else does. What you actually mean is, everyone who complains on the forums about PvP tends to get killed in hostile encounters with other players. This doesn't make up the majority of people who play the game, only the majority of people who complain on the forums. There is a large difference, which you don't want to pay attention to. Devs have posted statistics showing just above 14% of people dying from murders. You refuse to believe that, so apparently you know better than the people who are able to actually look at the numbers and are able to filter for specific values. Cool.

If you have hostile encounters on a regular basis you are doing something wrong. If you think everyone you meet is going to instantly become your best friend and not shoot you, you are wrong. If you want a solution to what you believe is a problem, create it yourself.

There are plenty of people who are doing just that. Some have created medical groups so they can play the game exactly how they want. Some have created trading groups that facilitate and protect people that want to trade with each other without the risk of being shot. Others have just created groups to help newer players, and some have created groups that uphold a law like system against larger groups of bandits. They all figured out how they wanted to play, and adapted their style to the way the game is developed. And it works, without the Devs having to come in and create new ideas to help hold peoples hands.

If you are getting shot all the time, and you are tired of it, change the way you play. If the only way that will work for you is shooting on sight, then do that. If you are creative enough to come up with other ways to accomplish what you want to do in DayZ, then good for you. This is a completely open game. If you want something fixed that isn't a bug, figure out how to do it yourself.

Watch this video, and listen to him.

But more importantly, look at the screen behind him at the very beginning.

This is DayZ. This is your story.

Create your own story. It's what he had in mind when he was creating the game.

[Metalhead (DayZ) 0]

This game is about survival. Team up with people you already know and are friendly with, not anyone else. You kill others as soon as you get the opportunity. Although, I don't kill newly spawned players, I just ignore them then. Anyone with a weapon is someone who is to out get me as far as I'm concerned.

If you want to have a tea-party with some player who is holding a rifle, go ahead. You'll be getting a bullet through your head.

As it has been stated before, if you expect someone to be friendly and you head up to them, get ready to go back to the beach. If you do this, you have failed at surviving.

Hell. I've even by shot by a clan member before, as he infiltrated our group to gain access to our camps location. When I said he wasn't getting them, he shot me, luckily I survived.

But this shows, don't trust anyone but those you know well. Ever.

[Cerven 80]

I think Zipper hit the nail on the head. I'm all for some very passive, nice advantages to grouping, sure - but this is extremely over the top. Banditry is supposed to be part of the game, and it has been encouraged by Rocket. He's explicitly said in the past that if you don't like it, 'do something about it'. Plenty of people who don't kill noobs in Cherno are already doing just this.

You have to remove yourself from the mindset that Bandits are 'playing the game wrong' or 'ruining the game'. They're not. Bandits are a necessary part of this game that makes the game what it is. To disenfranchise that part of the playerbase would completely undermine what this 'anti-game' has set out to do.

I think the only thing I would be ok with is having some sort of grouping system that would allow you to better coordinate with people you have grouped with ( and even this would have to stand up to significant scrutiny ). The radio system Rocket has discussed in the past promises something close to this effect.

The bottom line is that you're ultimately going to force players to play a certain way in order to get the items you mentioned, or they'll be at a significant disadvantage to the rest of the playerbase. That's not a good way to make this game feel like a sandbox at all.

[Fraggle (DayZ) 15720]

I had a nice chat with a player in an airfield control tower yesterday. We'd never met. I heard him coming up the stairs and told him I was up top and not to shoot. He said he was just looking around. I said cool, come on up! After a quick chat we decided to team up for a bit to leave the airfield safely. Then we swapped some ammo, I gave him a morphine injector and we went our seperate ways. This is just one of hundreds of friendly encounters I've had.

Instead of trying to break the mechanic of the game maybe just have a think about how your approaching it. If you stroll into Cherno trying to high-five everyone, your going to get shot. If you choose your moments carefully, you'll have more luck.

Just to recap: I don't want the simple gameplay mechanic to be tweaked to make it easier/less frustrating for players. It's supposed to be challenging, it's supposed to be stressful. That's what bought most of us here. A unique game doing things that haven't been tried before.

[DreamDragon 24]

May I add something to this post that might shed some light about the experience of the victims of these violent players?

Before I begin: I want to make it clear that I understands that this game isn't about PvP vs PvE, it's about the gamer, how he or she struggles to survive and to resist anyone making an attempt on your life. This mod isn't about punishing ANYONE because of their way of playing the game and conducting themselves in the world. The mod is about having players to decide how their experience should be and how they might want to impact the experiences of others.

The events:

This happened about five days ago. I had died many times, new player, by the hands of the infected population in Elektrozavodsk and Chernogorsk. But it wasn't hard for me to quickly grasp the basics of staying undetected from the infected. About then the first time I saw another player I was freshly spawned close by Elektrozavodsk, the player where running towards a office building. I was jolted, more aware of my surroundings as I moved closer to call out to that player - to ask for help of him.

I was new so I thought that most players would not attack, therefore this player would perhaps be a member of that perceived larger group of kind players. So I darted between the houses into the alleyways so I could get close to the office building, protected by the shadows and walls to stop any bullets.

I heard him shuffling about inside. I, for a short moment, hesitated to move into the building. I started to doubt my initial thought that just this player would be one of the good ones that doesn't shoot right away when they see anybody else. Then from the other side of the courtyard I saw moments behind a wall.

It was another player, also newly spawned and unarmed as I was. That player didn't move as carefully as I did but instead he darted inside the office building to loot. I saw then a head popping up above the low wall on the balcony, looking down and around trying to detect that careful player. I retraced my steps so to conceal myself better. The first player moved into the building, raised AKM. I understood then that if he was a good player he would perhaps of called out "friendly" but he didn't so perhaps he was after easy loot. I remained reluctantly silent.

Then the unarmed player, I'm quite sure of it, yelled out "Friendly! I'm Friendly! Don't kill me!" but was only greeted by two shots. I stayed hidden until the office building was empty. I did have a look on the shot player to see if he had anything on him, and he did: starting gear. That armed player killed for fun, as I see it. Scum.

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This did happen about two days ago. I had survived for about two hours and found a V3S-truck at Stary Sobor filled with guns, ammunition, bandages, gadgets, food etc. I was ecstatic! I felt like I couldn't be touched by anyone. So, like the dumb moron I am, I started honking the horn. Loved it! I speed off to Novy Sobor, honking and behaving like I've lost it. I stayed at Novy Sobor to fill the tank to full.

Rammed many infected without a second thought, one, a police infected officer, managed, somehow, to climb up on the floe of the truck. Didn't matter - couldn't touch me *Nana-nanana*. And as I neared Elektrozavodsk, still honking madly, I had this brilliant flash "hey why not just speeding through the town honking and attracting attention to show off >MY< V3S!? Brilliant"!

Admitting that this is a stupid idea because many players will attack you without hesitation. They will unload everything if they got a change; I've even seen players throwing two or three grenades to kill just one poor unarmed player for the fun of it. But still I thought that they would avoid harming the V3S because vehicles are rare and valuable.

So I entered Elektrozavodsk, early morning it was, with full speed. I drove down the street of the northern residential area, knowing that I would be driving extremely close to the office building and the grocery store and that was dangerous. And just as the front of the truck would get in height of the grocery stores gates, hell was set loose on the truck! From both sides and straight forward from the office building I was being assaulted with heavy fire. Suddenly I was knocked unconscious and could just barely see a wall approaching fast - the truck crashed to a sudden halt. Then suddenly a explosion destroyed the car and the players were laughing and screaming to each others. They killed for fun one could shortly explain it all. Of course I was being stupid but they attacked to gain another kill on their list, if they wanted the weapons they could of shot out the tires and killing me.

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This one happened today. I saw a player close to Chernogorsk, whom did run away from me in fear - he was killed very shortly by two lowly campers that held the hospital under strict surveillance. All because he was afraid that I was going to kill him, as he surely must of been killed less then ten minutes before we saw each others and didn't wish that to happen again.

I turned around towards the bar close to the church, crouching as I moved through the town. Often the silence was shattered by short bursts of gunfire and in correlation a kill-message would be announced - every time. The gunfire was very rarely answered, in short it was newly spawned players being killed for fun.

I arraived at the church and entered it. Looted everything of value to me and was about the exit when I heard gunfire really close by. I backed into the church, hid and listened for movements. I could hear the players talking. They where discussing what they was going to do next. The other said that it was funny to kill players just for the fun of it and, of course, because of that little extra thrill you feel just before the shot. Therefore they should move to the hospital again becuase of the numbers of players visiting that place, the other claimed that the firestation should be guarded in search for easy kills.

But before that they should search inside the church. I was unarmed, so you can understand me being nervours and scared. So before they could move I called out, stupid I know but I was trapped. I clearly stated that I was friendly many times, I even offered them something in return for sparing my life. They didn't even answer me but moved towards the gates of the church, so I threw a gas grenade. Obscuring the entrence I was going to make a dash for it! Yelling "I'm firendly please don't shot" I runned towards the opening just to be knocked down on my stomache by one single shot to the leg. It was broken.

I stoped my bleeding - they stoped the shooting. They, somehow, did see that I was not armed. Instead they was mocking me and following me as I crawled down towards the hospital. They said that they felt sorry but couldn't help me because I where not their friend and other ridiculous claims. But they could at least guard me apparently because they killed all infected untill I got to the hospital. At the hospital they threw a road flare and shot two-three bullets to attract infected. Then they ran into the residential house right across the hospital.

Laughing of course they sat there and did nothing as I was being consumed by the infected. I managed to ask them "why" and did receive the irritating answer "becuse it's fun".

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Basically this game is runned by, sorry, a** h**** that can't find anything better to do then killing unarmed players and players that's declaring themselves as friendly. Of course I understand that this is the part of the game that players are being killed despite that they're declaring themselves friendly. But it isn't fun to be the victim of a few very well armed players with the patient to camp for hours in any given location, I've been killed in the middle of the forest so there's is no place to hide from them.

It isnt't fun when the game quickly boils down to PvP and camping as the main events of the game. Of course this mod are in alpha stage and we surely will see more to do but now it's ridiculous that you can predict EXACTLY where to find a camper. It's ridiculous that they rather shoot then engage in some kind of diplomacy or bargaining with other players to further expand the experience and depth of the game. The lack of motivations to act in a more diverse behaviourism then only shooting are of course the main reason behind this narrow behaviour.

[socom77 36]

Another idea to help players work together would be bandit bounty boards and you get rewarded somehow(i don't really know if anyone likes this you are welcome to take and expand).

i'm pretty much a bandit myself, more of an unfriendly survivor you could say. but i like the idea of some kind of a bounty board. it would make the game a little more thrilling and i think add the realness. in a real life situation like this, you could put up a bounty board somewhere or spread through word of mouth about a price on someone's head. sadly, hard to do in a game though.

[LT.Sacred 9]

Making military stations would be a great improvement to the game... Who says they wouldn't be there irl? I don't think you should punish bandits though. Or not so drastically. Just have the option be there to get a reward for helping someone instead of shooting them.

And how does this ruin the "make your own story" theme? I don't see how it ruins it whatsoever just allows another option to be added.

Edited July 15, 2012 by LT.Sacred