Bandit/Survivor Morphing to be removed

[sleepless 22]

All you bandits crowing, dont realise this makes your life harder. You wont be able to blend in and get more kills. Now everyones going to be a bandit, and they'll have better camo than you. Theres nothing special about you anymore, nothing making you different than the next noob with a gun. Were back to reality, and in that world the bandit doesnt prosper. I used to give survivors a chance, mainly because i didnt want the shoot on sight camo. now its just my brothers vs the world. I like it.

[Banano (DayZ) 0]

Obviously you are already one of those who kill people on sight. I don't think you've really encountered the problem of judging other players at all.

I've been killed more times than I can count by not shooting first, because I wanted to "judge" someone's attitude towards me. Nine times out of ten people would just shoot me on sight because I had a bandit skin. But now that the skins are gone, I'll be much more friendly and less prone to shoot first and live.

[ytman18@gmail.com 9]

Because humanity is the feature DayZ deserves' date=' but not the one it needs right now. So we'll remove bandit transitions, because its not helping. Because its not a good feature. Humanity remains as a silent guardian, watchful protector. An ... unfinished feature.[/b']

Such win, Rocket.

I'll fight tooth and nail to keep my humanity... but not at the loss of my life.

I can't wait to find out what Humanity will be useful for.

[reuter 120]

No' date=' the player should have to use their own judgement to figure out if someone is shady or not. There should be no game-side crutch.

[/quote']

Obviously you are already one of those who kill people on sight. I don't think you've really encountered the problem of judging other players at all.

Ya, those of us who chose to go this path, are the reason you guys are freaking out. This game isn't meant to baby you, you are supposed to chose your path. And we chose to kill whoever we deem not our friend, and I deem anyone who I'm not on voice comms with, not a friend.

Same goes for me. Anyone who I am not voicechatting with is not trustworthy. But that doesn't mean i'm going to kill every unknown person on sight. That's because i am no douchebag and in addition i really care about my humanity, allthough this is just a printed number.

With this new approach I just will kill everybody on sight, making my life in Chernarus MUCH more easier. So far for "this game isn't meant to baby me".

[AlanDemarest 0]

I'm sure this will be a good change.

I'll bet that within a week the entire DayZ community will have devolved into a state where everyone will kill everyone.

The only thing that has been done is make it EASIER for bandits to grief. Wasn't it easy enough from before?

[c.chris.perry@gmail.com 17]

All you bandits crowing' date=' dont realise this makes your life harder. You wont be able to blend in and get more kills. Now everyones going to be a bandit, and they'll have better camo than you. Theres nothing special about you anymore, nothing making you different than the next noob with a gun. I used to give survivors a chance, now its just my brothers vs the world. I like it.

[/quote']

Won't get any harder for me at all. I was already shoot on sight, I talk about gaming the humanity system but I never did that because what's the fun in being a bandit if you can't take the shit you get from being one.

[Blaaaaaaag 75]

I think this change will be for the better. To those complaining about not being able to tell friend from foe on sight anymore, well, to you I say that you never could. What Rocket is doing by removing the bandit skins is replacing misinformation with ambiguity, which is better for the suspenseful feel of the game, imo.

I've never had a bandit skin, but may your god help you if you ever stumble across me, my crew, and my M16 in game, as I don't need you around... Similarly, I've met plenty of nice folks cursed with bandit skins they didn't really earn.

[bas_tera@hotmail.com 3]

This can go either really well, or turn out horrible.

Since no one can see whether or not your humanity is negative now, everybody will shoot everybody.

What i used to do, was trust the people on teamspeak, let survivors pass without letting them see me, and shooting bandits on sight.

Now i can't anymore though. But people won't know of me whether or not i'm bandit, so they'll blindly shoot me as well...

Oh well, just a temporary update i guess :)

[zackb101 0]

I'm sure this will be a good change.

I'll bet that within a week the entire DayZ community will have devolved into a state where everyone will kill everyone.

The only thing that has been done is make it EASIER for bandits to grief. Wasn't it easy enough from before?

The only way for us to know for sure is to test the damn feature. So we should test it. Like Rocket said we can always roll back...

Now is the time to test shit.

[bobbyweenus 17]

How possible would it be to make is so that when found and worn the bandit skin hides your user name' date=' but having the survivor skin shows your name when being aimed at?

At least with your name out there you have some minimal collateral for not being a douche nozzle. If you were spotted shooting at a player they could say "Hey player Ragi1ngD0ucheNozzl3 just shot me, watch out for him". Not to mention it would make up for the fact that visually each player is essentially a clone and indistinguishable from each other.

As a bandit you'd want to be mysterious, unknown. Unless you're just out to make a bad name for yourself, in which case you could don unmasked survivor wear.

[/quote']

This is the best idea I've seen so far. The reason for wearing a bandit skin is anonymity. So perhaps the bandit system is the problem, but the way it works. Bandits should have to cover their face, because in the chance that they leave a survivor, or that someone witnesses them killing an innocent, that survivor can now spread word around the campfires that, that guy is a murderer. Since we don't have the opportunity of unique clothing and facial features, our equivalent for those distinct qualities is a username/game handle. So bandit skins should be used when someone wants to go kill someone or cannot ensure they leave no witnesses alive. Making the bandit system more of an organic, real life information trade system, or a peer judgement system.

Survivors with extremely high humanity can be gifted arm bands from other players perhaps, which doesn't quite say "I'm a bandit, kill me!" but it says, "I am trustworthy, I'm a friendly."

Seriously man' date=' use the many resources in the survivor hq forum to find a group to run with. Get on TS, join #dayz chat. You can find plenty of friends. You are literally just upset because you are scared to get shot.

[/quote']

You're 100% wrong. I get shot at enough with the bandit system as it is. If you're scared to get shot, you probably wouldn't be playing this game. People put to much weight into the negativity of a bandit skin, you act like it's a prison sentence. Half of the time, you can't even tell until you're on top of someone or have their face dead to rights in a scope or binocs.

Im pretty dubious about this "its full of CoD players' date=' everyone just shoots on sight". The number just don't support it. Do you get backstabbed? Yes you do. That is part of the tension and the learning. You need to be fucking careful. Bandit skins were an interesting attempt but they did not achieve what was desired of them, and they're standing in the way of another feature... choosing your own skin. So we fucked that shit right off.

[/quote']

I guess the reason people think this will de-evolve the game into a DM is because it was bad and hostile enough WITH a negative penalty for murder. I already felt like the game was the wild west and anyone I ran into that I didn't personally know was a 50/50 percent chance to murder me, with or without a bandit skin. Removing the one negative factor, it just opens the flood gates.

Put a gun in someone's hands,they want to use it. Without absolutely ANYTHING to make them think twice about murdering anything that moves, don't you think it will drastically increase murders?

[reuter 120]

I'm sure this will be a good change.

I'll bet that within a week the entire DayZ community will have devolved into a state where everyone will kill everyone.

The only thing that has been done is make it EASIER for bandits to grief. Wasn't it easy enough from before?

The only way for us to know for sure is to test the damn feature. So we should test it. Like Rocket said we can always roll back...

Now is the time to test shit.

It's pretty obvious what will happen after this change.

But hey, this is still an alpha and rocket can do whatever he wants. I am the last one telling him what to do.

[Matty (DayZ) 0]

As long as there is a ghillie suit skin, I am content.

If not, I still don't care because this game is still fucking awesome as it is; bandit skins or no bandit skins.

[Reverant 1]

Let losing humanity increase the blood stench of players, making them easier to find for zombies!

[Blaaaaaaag 75]

How possible would it be to make is so that when found and worn the bandit skin hides your user name' date=' but having the survivor skin shows your name when being aimed at?

[/quote']

Having a player tag above your head completely kills any stealth aspect of this game... If you can see them, you're playing on 'little babby girl' difficulty, just fyi.

[bobbyweenus 17]

It's pretty obvious what will happen after this change.

But hey' date=' this is still an alpha and rocket can do whatever he wants. I am the last one telling him what to do.

[/quote']

Exactly. I do like and respect that Rocket has the freedom to make a status quo changing decision like this, but it is obvious what will happen now and I am absolutely blown away that people are pretending to not comprehend that, or think otherwise.

At least before I could give a player the benefit of the doubt if their face wasn't covered, now, why should I possibly take the chance, and why should I think twice about the opportunity? Without a bandit system, a player isn't a survivor, he's a delivery driver bringing supplies and gear closer to me.

[ghostshooter 0]

I am very nervous about this change. But the bandit system is NOT working. And fuck it' date=' let's change it and see what happens? If it is more stupid, then I will roll it back. No harm, no foul. Lets do all the stupid shit now, before this gets too serious.

What do you guys say? With me on this? I mean honestly I don't know how this is going to go but the existing system is pretty shit.

[/quote']

i absolutely agree with you, 1. this is what ALPHA is used for, and 2. as the bandit/survival system as it is right now doesnt work out very well. also as kind of a 3. finding outfits is awesome cuz its another thing to challenge yourself with and on top of that it allows u to wear something closer to what want to look like which is also awesome lol.

[Tagert 0]

It's pretty obvious what will happen after this change.

But hey' date=' this is still an alpha and rocket can do whatever he wants. I am the last one telling him what to do.

[/quote']

Exactly. I do like and respect that Rocket has the freedom to make a status quo changing decision like this, but it is obvious what will happen now and I am absolutely blown away that people are pretending to not comprehend that, or think otherwise.

At least before I could give a player the benefit of the doubt if their face wasn't covered, now, why should I possibly take the chance, and why should I think twice about the opportunity? Without a bandit system, a player isn't a survivor, he's a delivery driver bringing supplies and gear closer to me.

Yeah what this guy said.

Removing the bandit skin won't really help the game.

With the bandit skin you could atleast try and watchout for the bandits.

[hobbicon 19]

Let losing humanity increase the blood stench of players' date=' making them easier to find for zombies!

[/quote']

Why does nobody reply to this suggestion?

I think it´s brilliant amd simple. With -10k humanity you transform into a zombie magnet. That will let you think twice before you shoot innocent people.

[zackb101 0]

It's pretty obvious what will happen after this change.

But hey' date=' this is still an alpha and rocket can do whatever he wants. I am the last one telling him what to do.

[/quote']

Exactly. I do like and respect that Rocket has the freedom to make a status quo changing decision like this, but it is obvious what will happen now and I am absolutely blown away that people are pretending to not comprehend that, or think otherwise.

At least before I could give a player the benefit of the doubt if their face wasn't covered, now, why should I possibly take the chance, and why should I think twice about the opportunity? Without a bandit system, a player isn't a survivor, he's a delivery driver bringing supplies and gear closer to me.

I wouldn't say people aren't comprehending things, what I would say is that some people have differing opinions and ideas about what should be done. But even with all the opinions in the world we will never know if this new system will be better or worse until we TRY it. If it doesn't work, no big deal, new patch, remove it. If it does work, awesome, glad we tried it.

No matter what way you look at it it doesn't hurt to try it. If a player feels the need to quit because of a little and possibly temporary change then they shouldn't even be playing in Alpha stages, let alone at all.

[sata3d 3]

is a nice idea rocket :)

you can use the humanity points to wearing the skins

bandit maybe cannot use some skins

in this way you will need high humanity to wearing more nice skins :)

[bobbyweenus 17]

Servers de-evolving into a total DM match is not unprecedented. Rocket himself explains that the bandit system was created BECAUSE servers had become gigantic DM matches.

From Rocket HIMSELF on the Rock Paper Shotgun interview:

Anyway, what happened when we set up the original European server was very different from the original, relatively peaceful New Zealand server. Suddenly everyone was killing each other. I think the language barrier came in there – German, Russian, and English speakers – and it rapidly descended into chaos. The average life expectancy dropped to something ridiculous like thirty minutes. We knew we had to do something!

So what we did was implement that bandit system, which highlights the killers. But I don’t think it works. I think we need to have skins that are based not on your humanity, but on things that you find, craft, and use. That should allow people to craft their characters how they want. To appear as the character you actually play.

The system is clearly flawed, but it needs to be improved, not removed. The server rapidly fell into chaos because of a language barrier, and this was early on with limited servers. This game has attracted the attention of Kotaku readers, RPS, PC Gamer, Reddit... it's not just a friendly or mature ARMA2 mod community who would be interested in playing this game as a social experiment, it's safe to assume the growth has introduced a number of people, if not a large segment of the population, that would much rather DM then scavenge and survive.

[Banano (DayZ) 0]

I think that's possibly what the allusion towards the humanity comment was hobbicon. Something to do with making someone's life hell if they have low humanity.

Bring it on rocket c;

[mooncabbage 2]

OH MY GOD.

I need to know what skins are in, I have to be able to be the metalhead civilian. I'm so happy I could die.

[debo 37]

I wanna run around as a priest :D

[Mars (DayZ) 6]

@Weenus, touché. Win.