Agree or Disagree? Why we kill...

[bbilbo1 149]

I personally feel that not all PVP kills are created equally and the only true way to understand "why we kill" is to look deeper into the intent of the player's action. Prepare yourself for some hardcore armchair psychology!

From a strict gameplay-only scope of intent:

Killing another player because:

[sURVIVAL]

• I'm dying due to lack of food/water/medicine/etc and they might have some: OKAY!
  
• They have something and I want it!: OKAY!
  
• They have a weapon, and/or I generally feel like they are a threat to me: OKAY!
  
• I'm trying to hide from zombies/players and this person may reveal my location to undesirables: OKAY!
  

[COMPETITION]

• I'm going for a high kill/death ratio! Not really the point of this particular mod...
  
• I want to show that I have better skill at shooters than the other players. Not really the point of this particular mod...
  
• I'm bored of zombies and players are more my speed. Not really the point of this particular mod...
  

[GREIFING]

• I don't care about the game... I love ruining the fun of other anonymous people over the internet, free of consequence. WTF is wrong with you?! Get help soon!
  

NOTE: all this is just my opinion. Feel free to discuss and debate this viewpoint on gameplay. Agree? Disagree? Comment below!

Edited July 12, 2012 by bbilbo1

[Bradley_Whelan 2]

Agree, 100%, The only reason I kill is because I feel threatened, if I don't kill them, how can I be sure they wont kill me?

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

This is a good list provided you understand that all of these evaluations are completely subjective. Your personal estimation of what is "OKAY!" compared to what indicates that I am mentally dysfunctional is just that. You are welcome to your deliniations and classifications, but they are in no way aligned with the "intent" of the mod or the designer.

You say "Not really the point of this particular mod..." with no basis for that statement. Your estimation of what that point is simply a combination of preconceived notions and existing desires on your part.

So keep your list.

Just don't pretend like it is the list and we all have to share it.

Personally, though, I tend to make the same distinctions as you with one or two notable exceptions.

Edited July 12, 2012 by ZedsDeadBaby

[eoino 2]

I only shoot if I feel that my life is at risk, which most of the time it is. Most people have a kill on sight policy so your kinda forced to adopt that for the sake of your own life.

I agree to your points. If I saw a new person I would just pass them by, of course if they want to blow my head off, thats another thing.

For those that want to ruin peoples fun, then they really do need help...

[Bash Arkin 266]

Lable me greifer.

[Azrail (DayZ) 211]

i don't need any reason to kill to begin with.

because i am a cold blooded serial killer.

kill me if you want to survive :angel:

(i'm not even remotely good at pvp anyways)

[Zeromentor 169]

You have failed armchair psychology. How did you fail? You assume everyone thinks the same way you do, and do not have different life experiences, emotions, values or morals. Much less culture or nature/nurture upbringing.

I'm a sociopath. Your life means as little to me as the shadow on the wall. You have a life you live, just as I do, but your values might be valuable to me. Plus, one of the Dev of this mods LIKES the PvP aspect, so don't try to tell people that PvP is not the point of this mod. This is a sandbox. I play with the tools I'm given how I want to, and until you pay me to do otherwise, you have no say on what I do with said tools.

And I'm half asleep.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Zeromentor

[Bash Arkin 266]

I'm a sociopath. Your life means as little to me as the shadow on the wall.

and it's so easy when you're evil~

this is the life you see~

the devil tips his hat to me~

i do it all because i'm evil~

and i do it all for free~

your tears are all the pay i'll ever need~

[slimlacy 19]

Where is killing just for the luls?

Is it hidding in greifing, or in the "bored" part?

[bbilbo1 149]

This is a good list provided you understand that all of these evaluations are completely subjective. Your personal estimation of what is "OKAY!" compared to what indicates that I am mentally dysfunctional is just that. You are welcome to your deliniations and classifications, but they are in no way aligned with the "intent" of the mod or the designer.

You say "Not really the point of this particular mod..." with no basis for that statement. Your estimation of what that point is simply a combination of preconceived notions and existing desires on your part.

So keep your list.

Just don't pretend like it is the list and we all have to share it.

Personally, though, I tend to make the same distinctions as you with one or two notable exceptions.

Understood. This is, after all, my interpretation of the game. And I made sure to note my interpretation with the technicolor annotation as well as with the disclosure at the bottom.

Ultimately, unless Rocket gives his opinion on this list, we're left guessing and speculating on what we think is the "right and wrong" ways to play and kill each other, aside from the vague "Don't hack, dont kill in the debug, and metagaming is fine."

I just wanted to propose all this to the forum masses and see how they respond.

BTW thanks for the feedback, everyone.

[OrLoK 16182]

Lable me greifer.

I label you spell check free :)

Hullo there

I think you are looking too deeply into things.

Essentially (and this is a seeping statement), you have two types of players.

1. Those who are more self absorbed

2. Those who are less so.

The first is more inclined to grief as they see no issue with that and are more inclined to kill "fer teh Lulz" etc etc

The second whilst still more that capable for killing for selfish reasons, tends to need more a reasoning behind it ie "I felt threatened" or I became frustrated and so KOS for kit.

Trying so solve the issue though, I don't think is acheiveable on these forums :)

rgds

LoK

[fml 29]

In that case this should be called a griefer survival simulator.

[Bash Arkin 266]

I label you spell check free :)

Lets not pretend English makes sense, Japaense mate<3

But honestly, games like this, Dark Souls, and Darkfall is where i get my enjoyment, i'm just another challenge for those survivors.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Shy Guy Sterlok

[Ssgt_Perez 35]

I roll with RL friends and family, I shoot on sight to protect them and our loot.

[bbilbo1 149]

Where is killing just for the luls?

Is it hidding in greifing, or in the "bored" part?

That's a good question!

When you kill, is your action directed at the in-game avatar on-screen, or is it directed at the person on the other side of the keyboard controlling that avatar?

I personally feel like that's the most distinguishing factor.

[Aign0r 3]

I shoot people for one reason, it gives me the thrill, not the kill itself but the hunt, and the danger of actually getting killed. I never use snipers cause they don't give me that thrill. Honestly when i see another player and start shooting or he starts shooting at me, or we chase each other around the city, forest or any place my heart really pumps up. It's kinda like paintball sort of thrill if you ever played.

And i have to agree with some people here, to declare that something isn't point of this mod is kinda... i don't wanna say stupid cause i don't want to offend you but i don't have better word for it. Whole beauty of this mod is that you can make whatever you want from it... Survival, FPS, Teamplay, Soloplay what ever you want.

And about Rocket not saying anything but vague stuff about meta-gaming: "I posted in a thread that was talking about that, that META-GAMING is explicitly allowed. I.e. infiltrating teamspeak servers and groups etc..." << see how he points out infiltrating teamspeak servers and groups, why would you do that if not to kill people? This is from the topic about dcing to avoid death.

[Whattteva 32]

I agree with the OP, cause it sort of depicts how it would be if apocalypse really did happen.

Yes, you would get some serial killers, but the majority of the population is simply not like that. Taking someone's life in real life takes balls. Not everyone can just pull the trigger easily. I myself can't even stand the sight of something gruesome too much. I'm pretty sure at least half the people here can't even handle seeing most trauma injuries you see in ER's without throwing up.

Besides, you can't survive on your own indefinitely. Eventually, you need people to do things that you have no expertise on. Someone needs to figure out how to build vehicles, how to generate electricity, how to build shelter, how to build weapons/ammo etc.. etc.. The human race got to where it is now because of this very reason. We depend on others to do things that we can't do on our own. Humans are by nature, very social creatures. Of course, this becomes moot in a game where cans of beans, vehicles, ammo, weapons just conveniently spawn out of nothing.

As much as some people would like to claim how "realistic" this game is, it just simply isn't. Killing some pixels is far far easier than actually killing a real human unless you are one of those psychopathic serial killers whose brains we still have yet to understand fully. Unlike normal people, they feel neither remorse nor happiness when they kill others... just complete indifference.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Whattteva

[Lokiz 4]

Agree, 100%, The only reason I kill is because I feel threatened, if I don't kill them, how can I be sure they wont kill me?

this exactly, i was in berezino other day, looting hospital for medical supplies, i seen guy in market, so i typed and called out friendly? i soon find out he has a friend with him and they both look in my direction, i think oh dear and make my way backwards fast for quick retreat, they both ran behind the hospital to cut me off, luckily i was prone and put 2 shots into the first guys chest with my m14, then do quick bunk into the hospital behind the wall, were i gave the zombies los slip

i then creep around the hospital and finish of the guys mate again with 2 shots to his chests, then same deal losing the zombies and coming back and looting both there bodies and then hiding them

all my kills have been instances were i feel trapped and threatened by other peoples actions, am i wrong for killing them? i don't know

[bbilbo1 149]

I shoot people for one reason, it gives me the thrill, not the kill itself but the hunt, and the danger of actually getting killed. I never use snipers cause they don't give me that thrill. Honestly when i see another player and start shooting or he starts shooting at me, or we chase each other around the city, forest or any place my heart really pumps up. It's kinda like paintball sort of thrill if you ever played.

I'd like for you to expand on that, if you don't mind. Can you be more specific?

Here we have a Zombie Survival Simulator game. You say that the thrill you get comes not from the ever-present zombie threat, and not from the survival aspect of food/drink/exposure/bloodloss. But you get your thrill from simple act of shooting other players and engaging in firefights to the death.

Some would say that there are a whole plethora of other games that exclusively offer that gameplay... and even does it better than this game does! Tell me why you're opting to play this game instead of one of those. It seems akin to buying an entire car, just to have a radio.

[Phatd00d 1]

Being a cold blooded killer in this game is way to easy, anyone can be a bandit.

I enjoy challenge, so I play more spec ops. If you don't see me then I'll let you go, but if I see you looking at me you're dead.

I don't kill for weapons or food because all of that is honestly more easy to get than killing another player.

[Penguinman401 2]

... I'm a sociopath.....

I would be willing to bet that you aren't. You're behavior in an online game might be indicitive of a sociopath to a certain extent, but a sociopath certaintly wouldn't be on a forum talking to other people I'm sure most peopel exhibit sociopathic behavior in an anonymous, online setting. That's what is so great about games; it's an outlet for those kind of negative behaviors. But in real life, you're probably just like every other kid who has been playing first person shooters your whole life.

[Jack Dant 158]

Here we have a Zombie Survival Simulator game. You say that the thrill you get comes not from the ever-present zombie threat, and not from the survival aspect of food/drink/exposure/bloodloss. But you get your thrill from simple act of shooting other players and engaging in firefights to the death.

Get hatchett, knife, matches and water bottle. Dissapear into the woods. Where is your ever-present zombie threat now?

Some would say that there are a whole plethora of other games that exclusively offer that gameplay... and even does it better than this game does! Tell me why you're opting to play this game instead of one of those. It seems akin to buying an entire car, just to have a radio.

Name one.

Name one shooter with 1) persistence 2) permadeath 3) a 225km2 map 4) realist guns and gun damage.

If DayZ had those elements and no zombies at all, I would still play it. Why? Because they make for tactical, tense and terrifying gameplay. Comparing it to COD/BF is like comparing high stakes poker with the neighbourhood bingo.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Jack Dant

[bbilbo1 149]

Name one shooter with 1) persistence 2) permadeath 3) a 225km2 map 4) realist guns and gun damage.

If DayZ had those elements and no zombies at all, I would still play it. Why? Because they make for tactical, tense and terrifying gameplay.

I see.

Are you saying that you are seeking enertainment independent of Rocket's intended Zombie Survival-themed gameplay?

[Jack Dant 158]

Are you saying that you are seeking enertainment independent of Rocket's intended Zombie Survival-themed gameplay?

I, for one, cannot read rocket's mind. Maybe sir has a direct line into his brain?

However, sir should most definitely look up the definitions of "sandbox game" and "emergent gameplay".

[Aign0r 3]

I'd like for you to expand on that, if you don't mind. Can you be more specific?

Here we have a Zombie Survival Simulator game. You say that the thrill you get comes not from the ever-present zombie threat, and not from the survival aspect of food/drink/exposure/bloodloss. But you get your thrill from simple act of shooting other players and engaging in firefights to the death.

Some would say that there are a whole plethora of other games that exclusively offer that gameplay... and even does it better than this game does! Tell me why you're opting to play this game instead of one of those. It seems akin to buying an entire car, just to have a radio.

Jack Dant covered most of my points very well so i'll just explain what he didn't.

First of all if you had read my post thoroughly you would seen that i also stated that big part of that thrill is possibility of being killed. Since it's perma-death. You don't get that thrill in other games in which you respawn in even better state than you use to be (health, ammo etc.).

Second, Thrill also comes from outsmarting a human, or outplaying him/her. I really don't feel threatened by zombies, since they are retarded and predictable. I died from zombies for 2 reasons so far: Bugs/glitches, or getting shot by some player and then eaten by zombie. So i don't really get that thrill from zombies (i did at first since it was something new and exciting), now they're just a nusence.

Survival is too easy, as Jack Dant said get a hatchet, knife, matches and water bottle and you're golden. This can be achieved in about 30 mins tops unless you don't have luck with spawns, but anyhow hour of gameplay at the most. So survival from thrist, hunger and zombies is not really hard.

This brings me to my point, one and ONLY thing that seriously threatens your survival are players.

Can you see where my thrill comes from now? I don't know how old are you, and how many games you played and how long do you play games. But i'm 25, i play video games for at least 15 years and had played hundreds of them, and after all that, AI really doesn't stand chance. Only thing that still thrills me in games is outplaying people or good story.

Again i must refer to something Jack already said, and that's "sandbox game". One of the best things about this game is that it gives so much possibility for meta-gaming, in other words you can make what you want of it. If you want survival you can sit in woods, if you like to kill people you can be a bandit, if you are a munchkin you can put a tent in forest and hoard all your "preciosess" in there...

Besides all this, there also that other point lot of people made, only if i kill someone i can be sure that they wont kill me.

To sum it up. Killing and dying in DayZ is pretty much closest thing to somewhat real feel you can get from video game. Only place where i felt same kind of thrill is playing paintball.

And that's why i kill.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Aign0r