Silenced ammunition.

[ZulphuR 0]

I don't exactly know how much work and rescripting it would take to make rounds to a particular gun to be universal whether it is silenced/ non-silenced. However, I can say it would have a big impact on the use of silenced weapons in a positive light and if you happen to find one it would make it a hell of a lot easier aquiring ammo for said gun.

The only other thing I can think of would be making the silencer a completly different loot drop and only making it attatchable to certain weapons.

Ideas/thoughts? I don't have too much experience with silenced weapons and finding ammo for them. However, everyones opinions are welcome.

Edited July 12, 2012 by ZulphuR

[[email protected] 192]

super sonic ammo that was in a suppressed rifle will still make a bang (breaking the sound barrier)

also there is a pressure issue in them, Subsonic in a rifle with out a can on it would cause the gun to jam more.

the bullet will not have enough pressure to push back bolt i'm pretty sure.

with out a can, there will be to much pressure escaping the gun. much needed gas to cycle the bolt.

Don't quote me It's been a while since I study up on my suppressors ;)

[[email protected] 19]

Well its kinda unrealistic that the sub sonic ammunition is working without any trouble in the regular m4's, while you can't even use super sonic bullets in the SD m4's.

You CAN use super and sub sonic ammunition for both guns TECHNICALLY, keep in mind that subsonic ammo will often cause your bolt to not go back all the way so you gonna have to manually pull the bolt back to get the next bullet out of the clip.

And supersonic ammo works with an SD rifle, but it will be loud and not really silenced.

[Synergy (DayZ) 3]

Well its kinda unrealistic that the sub sonic ammunition is working without any trouble in the regular m4's, while you can't even use super sonic bullets in the SD m4's.

You CAN use super and sub sonic ammunition for both guns TECHNICALLY, keep in mind that subsonic ammo will often cause your bolt to not go back all the way so you gonna have to manually pull the bolt back to get the next bullet out of the clip.

And supersonic ammo works with an SD rifle, but it will be loud and not really silenced.

Nuff said.

[Duckman404 37]

I'd like to see more realistic weaponry in DayZ, but it probably won't happen for a good while.

My main gripes when concerning suppressed weapons would be with the MP5SD.

There's no need for 9mm MP5 SD ammunition: the MP5SD uses a ported barrel that reduces the velocity of the 9mm NATO round to subsonic, which means you don't need any special ammo for it to shoot silently.

I'd also like to see more weapons with suppressors in DayZ: there's a PDW with a suppressor, a suppressed AKS-74u, and a Makarov PB (which is integrally suppressed). The PDW and AKS would need their own type of subsonic ammo, but the Makarov PB would just use standard 9x18mm Makarov, which is subsonic by default. These weapons are available in ARMA 2, and would only need to be added to the loot tables.

[enforcer1975 1111]

I think they made the SD ammo because the bullet information ( velocity, damage, range ) is defined by the bullet class and not by the weapon. The MP5 SD couldn't be modeled to reduce the velocity of the bullet to subsonic, thats what i think. Of course you can fire both ammo types in both guns with appropriate results but the game has it's limitations. Still better than any other FPS where the sniping distance is about the pistol range in ArmA :D

I'd rather see more civi weapon variants than military weapons otherwise this wouldn't be what i think it should be anymore.

First prioroty should be making the basic mod work before thinking of adding other unimportant things, the weapons in the game do the job more than enough for now.

[vesmo 21]

Definitely not. Silenced weaponry is a rarity (no pun intended) and should stay that way, even with the ammo. It's good there is a choice: do I take the silenced weapon with limited ammunition or the more common weapon with more ammo available? Obviously this will start to work properly when they fix the ammo tracking, right now I have no fear of running out of ammo for my bizon as I have two magazines and they always magically refill when I log out and back on (huge 64 bullet clips never run out in a single play).

[enforcer1975 1111]

The devs could make use of the bug when you have a partially filled mag it will be removed when you reconnect. Problem solved no more magic refill/connect. Even when i had tons of mags on my gun i rarely use it, ok it was a .50 so i only used it in emergency situations because its too loud and sticked to my 1911 or revolver instead.

Also creating other magazines should be frozen for now because it can also be abused.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Enforcer

[[email protected] 192]

Nuff said.

rather then stooping down to Arcade game levels, we should fix the the feature.

[[email protected] 98]

I think pistol ammunition, and even MP5 ammunition should be able to be used in the suppressed variant. As some of you mentioned "the gun would not be as suppressed, it will still make a bang" while that is true it is not entirly correct. The bullet reaching supersonic speeds only occurs after a few hundred meters. Since when would you be using a pistol at more that about 50 meters? And considering the inaccuracy of the MP5, we could also assume that you probably wouldn't be using this any further than about 120m at a complete maximum. This being said, if supersonic ammunition could be used in a suppressed weapon it wouldn't be such a bad idea. It could also add a bit more suspense to the game - should I fire and risk getting my position revealed or you I wait until they get a bit closer? I think it's a good idea, being able to run both types of rounds through the chamber.

[enforcer1975 1111]

I used supersonic ammo in suppressed weapon in the game, the only drawback is the supersnoic clap you have, the damage and range is the same. Subsonic in unsuppressed weapons did less damage like when they are used on unsuppressed ones without the drawback of having to charge the weapon due to lower gas pressure. Having a suppressed weapon is a big advantage in the game, it's really difficult to hear where the shots are coming from unless you are as close as 20m to the shooter.

[Duckman404 37]

I think pistol ammunition, and even MP5 ammunition should be able to be used in the suppressed variant. As some of you mentioned "the gun would not be as suppressed, it will still make a bang" while that is true it is not entirly correct. The bullet reaching supersonic speeds only occurs after a few hundred meters.

Uh... that's not how ballistics works. At all.

Bullets do not accelerate when they leave the barrel: they decelerate due to air resistance. The muzzle velocities of many common pistol and rifle cartridges are supersonic, and as long as they are in flight (i.e, as soon as they are fired), they will be making a supersonic crack, until air resistance slows them down to subsonic velocities.

So shooting a suppressed pistol with supersonic ammo into a target at 50 metres will still get a supersonic crack, because the bullet is traveling at supersonic velocities for that entire 50 metres. Don't know where you got that idea, mate.

[enforcer1975 1111]

Must be rocket assisted munitions.

[[email protected] 98]

Uh... that's not how ballistics works. At all.

Bullets do not accelerate when they leave the barrel: they decelerate due to air resistance. The muzzle velocities of many common pistol and rifle cartridges are supersonic, and as long as they are in flight (i.e, as soon as they are fired), they will be making a supersonic crack, until air resistance slows them down to subsonic velocities.

So shooting a suppressed pistol with supersonic ammo into a target at 50 metres will still get a supersonic crack, because the bullet is traveling at supersonic velocities for that entire 50 metres. Don't know where you got that idea, mate.

Actually, I don't know where you got that idea, mate. I've worked with many guns my entire life, and I have experienced first hand the results of attachments and how they alter the performance of firearms. One of the only silenced pistols in DayZ is the Baretta M9. It's muzzle velocity from memory is roughly 380m/s. As you may or may not know the speed of sound travels at 340m/s. Yes, I understand that the projectile is travelling 40m/s faster than the speed of sound. Now, add a suppressor. You may argue the fact that a suppressor in fact increases muzzle velocity. In some cases, yes. Not in an M9's case. This usually only happens with gas operated rifles such as an AR-15. Using supersonic rounds in a pistol with a suppressor does take away the thump, however still producing a crack - AT DISTANCE. When the bullet leaves the muzzel, it then enters the suppressor. The crack is then absorbed in the suppressor, also slowing the projectile down. Once the projectile exits the suppressor, the the gas also exits the barrel accelerating the bullet - this is due to rapid decompression (similar to that if you punched a hole in the side of a pressurized aircraft). The bullet then exceeds the sound barrier and produces is 2nd and final crack. The only noticeable one. However considering the bullet is now actually accelerating positivity, overcoming the force of air resistance, it takes some distance before the crack is actually produced. Thus the projectile is still silent at close range. This negative acceleration then kicks in following the crack. Don't fuck with a physicist.

[vesmo 21]

Actually, I don't know where you got that idea, mate. I've worked with many guns my entire life, and I have experienced first hand the results of attachments and how they alter the performance of firearms. One of the only silenced pistols in DayZ is the Baretta M9. It's muzzle velocity from memory is roughly 380m/s. As you may or may not know the speed of sound travels at 340m/s. Yes, I understand that the projectile is travelling 40m/s faster than the speed of sound. Now, add a suppressor. You may argue the fact that a suppressor in fact increases muzzle velocity. In some cases, yes. Not in an M9's case. This usually only happens with gas operated rifles such as an AR-15. Using supersonic rounds in a pistol with a suppressor does take away the thump, however still producing a crack - AT DISTANCE. When the bullet leaves the muzzel, it then enters the suppressor. The crack is then absorbed in the suppressor, also slowing the projectile down. Once the projectile exits the suppressor, the the gas also exits the barrel accelerating the bullet - this is due to rapid decompression (similar to that if you punched a hole in the side of a pressurized aircraft). The bullet then exceeds the sound barrier and produces is 2nd and final crack. The only noticeable one. However considering the bullet is now actually accelerating positivity, overcoming the force of air resistance, it takes some distance before the crack is actually produced. Thus the projectile is still silent at close range. This negative acceleration then kicks in following the crack. Don't fuck with a physicist.

[blaf 63]

Must be rocket assisted munitions.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Blaf

[evolution (DayZ) 51]

-1 It would almost render the silenced weapons as 'regular' weapons but with an extra(ability to be silenced). The system is fine as it is.

[[email protected] 98]

Sorry guys, got a bit overwhelmed with my post XD But good point Duckman. It's good to see there are actually people out there who know their shit :)

[Duckman404 37]

Actually, I don't know where you got that idea, mate. I've worked with many guns my entire life, and I have experienced first hand the results of attachments and how they alter the performance of firearms. One of the only silenced pistols in DayZ is the Baretta M9. It's muzzle velocity from memory is roughly 380m/s. As you may or may not know the speed of sound travels at 340m/s. Yes, I understand that the projectile is travelling 40m/s faster than the speed of sound. Now, add a suppressor. You may argue the fact that a suppressor in fact increases muzzle velocity. In some cases, yes. Not in an M9's case. This usually only happens with gas operated rifles such as an AR-15. Using supersonic rounds in a pistol with a suppressor does take away the thump, however still producing a crack - AT DISTANCE. When the bullet leaves the muzzel, it then enters the suppressor. The crack is then absorbed in the suppressor, also slowing the projectile down. Once the projectile exits the suppressor, the the gas also exits the barrel accelerating the bullet - this is due to rapid decompression (similar to that if you punched a hole in the side of a pressurized aircraft). The bullet then exceeds the sound barrier and produces is 2nd and final crack. The only noticeable one. However considering the bullet is now actually accelerating positivity, overcoming the force of air resistance, it takes some distance before the crack is actually produced. Thus the projectile is still silent at close range. This negative acceleration then kicks in following the crack. Don't fuck with a physicist.

That's not how suppressors work though. Once a bullet enters the suppressor, it's acts just the same as it would when entering normal atmosphere (i.e, the bullet is moving through normal air without support from the barrel). What the suppressor does is capture the hot expanding gas of the explosion in the baffles; this typically accelerates the bullet a small amount, since there's still some pressure acting against it inside the suppressor, but at no point does the bullet slow down.

The exception to this is when a suppressor is using wipes; these will usually slow down the bullet due to friction, but wear out very quickly.

Once a bullet exits a suppressor, it's on its own. The little puff of cooled and decelerated gas exiting the suppressor will not accelerate it further, so the bullet is flying on simple momentum.

Now, let us consider the 9x19mm NATO round, which typically travels at 380 m/s. This is above the speed of sound. Anything traveling faster than the speed of sound produces a supersonic crack. Even a whip, the tip of which breaks the sound barrier for a split second, produces a very loud crack. Considering that the 9mm bullet is going at supersonic velocities as soon as it exits the suppressor, there is no way it will not create a supersonic crack. There's no delay, there's no magical acceleration of the bullet once it leaves the suppressor, there's just a fast piece of lead breaking the sound barrier.

I'm still not convinced that what you're saying is at all true, especially considering that there's plenty of examples to the contrary:

Beretta 92FS (civilian M9) shooting supersonic ammo, unsuppressed and suppressed:

Notice the immediate 'crack' after it fires a suppressed shot.

Another example: FN FiveseveN, firing a supersonic 5.7mm round:

Again, we hear the crack immediately as it's fired.

[[email protected] 98]

Can't beat video evidence XD however although I do now agree with what you are saying, I still think the point stand however, that supersonic ammo should be allowed to be used. Although it will TECHNICALLY suppress the gun, the distinctive crack is still made. And the thump is always loader than the crack ;) also, when looking for an enemy target who's firing, you use the thump and crack to determin their location. This is the general incentive everywhere. So if you COULD use both types ammo, it would still be an advantage. So I still think it should be added.