DayZ and Basic Human Nature

[CopperBarron 4]

Hello!

I'll quickly introduce myself as Bill, a politics and IR student currently at university and I joined today to pass on my thoughts on what makes DayZ a very important experiment in my humble opinion.

In DayZ, life is "nasty, poor, brutish and short", a world of no rules, and no leaders. It's "everyone against everyone for survival" that is the human nature. These fundamental laws of human nature without laws and governance that I have stated are the words of the important philosopher Thomas Hobbes who wrote at the time of the English Civil war. Now I wont bore you on what made him so important, however what he defines as basic human nature without governance or laws is evident in DayZ.

DayZ is (at least for me) becoming an interesting social experiment which brings out some very interesting emotions and behaviour in those individuals who are playing it. I'm aiming down the sights of my rifle at a survivor, and although I know it's only a game I pause as a decide on my next action, do I kill him, will he kill me if I wait any longer? How long has he been playing? Do I attempt to trust him? Just another mouth to feed? Or I'll just end his game, because I can. It stirs something deep in the mind, something very basic yet very unique from a game, I feel it will keep me coming back to DayZ for a very long time.

DayZ's brilliance is in its simplicity, it reduces us to our basic human nature to survive and how each individual deals with that in this excellent simulation is fascinating.

Bill

"There Are No Right Answers, Only Good Arguments" -jordNZ (Thread Golden Rule)

[Banano (DayZ) 0]

Man some people play this game in a scary serious way.

I usually just kill people for their beans, without second guessing.

[CopperBarron 4]

Man some people play this game in a scary serious way.

I usually just kill people for their beans' date=' without second guessing.

[/quote']

That is what my original post was getting at. Why you play how you do, and why others play how they do, that is what is interesting.

:)

[Ostheim (DayZ) 1]

I usually hesitate to even interact with others. Mostly because I don't want to end up dying, or vice versa. It'd make me feel like an asshole ending some persons game that has worked hard running around for days finding good gear etc.

[pendergraft 1]

In games that present players with moral choices, like Mass Effect, I can only ever play through as a good guy. My decisions aren't even affecting real people yet I still feel like a huge twat if I do something the game construes as the "evil" choice. In online games? Fuhgeddaboutit. My conscience doesn't come with an on/off switch. My face will probably eat buckshot more often than most, but at least I won't have trouble sleeping at night.

[Virfortis 111]

Yeah this is kind of a bad social experiment, sorry. You're basing the data on gamers who realize it's a game and, furthermore, do not think about humanity as a whole.

There is no real sanctity of life on DayZ, and since you respawn, there's absolutely no weight to the actions. You're trying to make something complex in a game dominated by basic-level thinking. Sorry, I give you kudos for trying, but this is not a good social experiment.

[Ostheim (DayZ) 1]

Yeah this is kind of a bad social experiment' date=' sorry. You're basing the data on gamers who realize it's a game and, furthermore, do not think about humanity as a whole.

There is no real sanctity of life on DayZ, and since you respawn, there's absolutely no weight to the actions. You're trying to make something complex in a game dominated by basic-level thinking. Sorry, I give you kudos for trying, but this is not a good social experiment.

[/quote']

Because everyone thinks like you.

Nope.

Like I said before; I feel like a dick when I kill someone in-game.

[CopperBarron 4]

Yeah this is kind of a bad social experiment' date=' sorry. You're basing the data on gamers who realize it's a game and, furthermore, do not think about humanity as a whole.

There is no real sanctity of life on DayZ, and since you respawn, there's absolutely no weight to the actions. You're trying to make something complex in a game dominated by basic-level thinking. Sorry, I give you kudos for trying, but this is not a good social experiment.

[/quote']

As I said before, how you think and play in this game is what makes it interesting. This is a game where you decisions will affect someone more than if they were playing a quick match on a more common generic type of FPS.

:)

[naizarak 41]

lol i thought everyone already knew this

[red62 9]

me and my friends laugh when we kill people, even the set of 5 noobs we ambushed in the dark that were carrying like 3 flares with them

[pendergraft 1]

That sounds like some good, fertile ground for you and your therapist to dig into.

[Rec0n412 9]

I find my conscience does not have an on/off switch. I find the idea of ruining another's game play, or attempts to just gun down people in-game for sport to be... off-putting. Being a dick in-game just doesn't feel right to me.

So, I just play to survive. Which just means I avoid others like the plague, only returning fire in self defense.

[Pharmakon 8]

Like many video games, this does appeal to some of our instincts, but these do not make up our "basic human nature".

When I started playing I told myself I would play ethically, but as I accumulated more and better items, I started having second thoughts about this (although I have managed not to kill anyone yet). It was not because I felt bolder and more powerful, but because [/bold]the more I had the more afraid I was of losing it. When I was a newbie on the beach, I was not afraid of walking up to people and taking risks: I was fine as long as I could find a can of beans from time to time. The more I had, the LESS I felt free: this is a theme picked up by Machiavelli and to a lesser extent, by Rousseau: the rich are primarily motivated by fear, and their desire to accumulate to consolidate their status is endless and pointless in the long run.

Aristotle posited that those who lived apart from civilization would have to be gods or beasts, but in DayZ these are essentially the only options: cooperation is not assured by structures, it is a vanishing affair that ends at a whim: I could live off hunting in the isolated forests, or I could be a brute who mugs people in towns, but the game has no relevance to reality because the two options are permitted by the fact that this is only a video game, and the third option is inevitably absent because a bunch of faceless anonymous strangers on the internet cannot have the common culture that is necessary (and always present) for forms of coexistence that go beyond simple calculation of personal gains.

---

Despite these ponderings, one would need to subscribe to the liberal conception of humanity to think DayZ has any anthropological signification: the individualistic war of all against all as developed by Hobbes is an absurd bedtime story: Marx would refer to these hypothetical liberal scenarios as "robinsonades", as they featured individual men in improbable situations of isolation: they have long since been disproven by anthropologists, who discovered that even the most "primitive" peoples always shared a sense of community; sociologists, who noticed that people in dire situations look out for each other despite personal risks (especially after natural disasters); and psychologists who understand how deeply our environment affects us, how we truly depend on those around us: they make us, they allow us to think ourselves: collectivity is IN the individual, much like language allows us to shape our thoughts: collectivity and altruism aren't any more "illusions" or "constructs" than individuality and egotism.

To make a brief reference to Foucault: one should not attempt to find essences of meaning in scenarios of origin that simply do not exist, as there is absolutely no such thing as a "pure subject". There is no hobbesian "in the beginning", and much less a post-apocalyptic "after it is all gone".

Even in a world of zombies, people would not simply spawn on the shore.

(sorry if I made mistakes I wrote this quickly past my usual bedtime)

[cybercam 0]

It's funny when people say it's only a game and I would never act like that in the real. I see the argressiveness that plagues this game in everyday people. If you live in a big city, travel around at rush hour and you will see it. Granted it's pretty mild now, but it's there. If something like an outbreak or some serious catastraphy were to ever happen, you would definitely see the full extent of how humans react in a crysis. There would be many a bandit walking the streets looking for victims to prey on. On the other hand the survivors would be few... unfortunately.

[Freek314 32]

Authoritarians can suck a fat one. You've just motivated me to form a militia and the beginnings of a republic.

Let's see how well your tyrannical musings hold up against the philosophy of Liberty!

[nicraM 137]

From the moment I played the game, I felt very closely to what you were saying. This game is more than just a game. It is a metaphor, in the simplest terms, for human nature. No other game triggers such a primal fear response, as this one. It deprives you of basic things, like knowledge of your surroundings, food, water, shelter. It gives you minimal supplies and tells you to go...

Then comes the fun part, staying alive among the groans of the undead. And, even more nerve racking, when you come across another player, or group. Are they friend, or foe? Do you trust them?

Every time I die, I grit my teeth and mutter an obscenity but I find myself clamoring for more, more, more...

[ytman18@gmail.com 9]

Hello!

I'll quickly introduce myself as Bill' date=' a politics and IR student currently at university and I joined today to pass on my thoughts on what makes DayZ a very important experiment in my humble opinion.

In DayZ, life is "nasty, poor, brutish and short", a world of no rules, and no leaders. It's "everyone against everyone for survival" that is the human nature. These fundamental laws of human nature without laws and governance that I have stated are the words of the important philosopher Thomas Hobbes who wrote at the time of the English Civil war. Now I wont bore you on what made him so important, however what he defines as basic human nature without governance or laws is evident in DayZ.

DayZ is (at least for me) becoming an interesting social experiment which brings out some very interesting emotions and behaviour in those individuals who are playing it. I'm aiming down the sights of my rifle at a survivor, and although I know it's only a game I pause as a decide on my next action, do I kill him, will he kill me if I wait any longer? How long has he been playing? Do I attempt to trust him? Just another mouth to feed? Or I'll just end his game, because I can. It stirs something deep in the mind, something very basic yet very unique from a game, I feel it will keep me coming back to DayZ for a very long time.

DayZ's brilliance is in its simplicity, it reduces us to our basic human nature to survive and how each individual deals with that in this excellent simulation is fascinating.

Bill

[/quote']

I can tell you personally that, even despite this being a game, my large group of survivors have tackled these tough emotional issues to varying degrees.

We've grouped up, a band of 20+, we treat each other like brothers and despite our own ethical differences we always place our group first. We are tackling this realm in the best way we can, together, everything else is secondary.

I personally want to show compassion when its possible, others find no need to show it and think showing it is a waste of time.

In the end as an experiment DayZ has taught my group that we are capable of putting something above ourselves (at times).

On a personal note; I did murder someone, his name was something with an E... I didn't want to, and in the end I regret doing it... but I feared for my life and felt that him raising a rifle was a hostile sign when I had told him to prone and stop.

I try to play this game as if it were real if only to learn what I'm capable of in 'theory'.

[JinxX 11]

they have long since been disproven by anthropologists' date=' who discovered that even the most "primitive" peoples always shared a sense of community; sociologists, who noticed that people in dire situations look out for each other despite personal risks (especially after natural disasters); and psychologists who understand how deeply our environment affects us, how we truly depend on those around us: they make us, they allow us to think ourselves: collectivity is IN the individual, much like language allows us to shape our thoughts: collectivity and altruism aren't any more "illusions" or "constructs" than individuality and egotism.

[/quote']

If an outbreak where to occur where all structure in a 'civilized' world where to cease indefinitely people would break all these boundaries of community. Communities would be small groups of families, friends, even strangers.

Irrational behavior would effect everyone and those with a moral compass that work too well would be the first victims of thefts and murders. When starvation sets in and a group of men are inside of a store harvesting what little food remains you won't find yourself walking up to them for help, you'll be thinking of ways to get that food for yourself and your loved ones. Hell even if you do walk up to them and ask for help and food, what do you do if they say no? They can easily deny you their food. There isn't enough to go around, they outnumber you with weapons. What do you do then to save your family and self?

All due respect I disagree, these 'Crisis' situations in which sociologist found people seeking community weren't a crisis in anyway similar to Zombie outbreaks. People would only seek out each other during a disaster for, in a sense, personal gain, they would find the nearest help they could get for themselves or family to reinforce these boundaries of safety that this structure provides. But when given no help, no structure, left in a dark and cold desolate outbreak of zombies their only goal would be to protect themselves their families or friends and survive the next day for as long as they can. Rapes, Murders, Thefts, Killings, Suicides will be nearly every day things after a while.

I'm not saying all of this will happen on Day 1, I'm saying eventually with no help from anyone people will fend for themselves. Some sick individuals live out there and no amount of crisis will make them change their morals to be kind and loving. In fact it'll be the perfect excuse to bring out this 'Me vs Them' Mentality. Where zombies aren't the only enemy, people are too.

[zeru 5]

Yeah lets not forgot that every player is a 100% self-sufficient superman that is apparently a medic, a car mechanic, a helicopter pilot, a master butcher, a solider, and a respawning jesus.

Once you've got your core set of 1-10 friends for company, there is little reason to not shoot other players as having them live would bring you nothing that you don't have already.

In reality you'd want to rely on as many people as possible, for their diverse skill-sets and power in numbers over zombies.

If you asked the current playerbase to go outside, take a knife and some matches to the woods to kill, gut, and cook some animal meat, few here would even be capable of that. The first thing they'd want to do is find another person to help them.

However in game, the first thing they would do is headshot other players for fun, and when they're bored of that, they'll mouseclick 5 times on an animal and they'll now have some cooked meat ready to eat.

This game is great and there are some interesting parallels between ingame behavior and true human nature, but lets not over-glorify things.

[xscaramouchx 0]

I find a fundamental flaw in the logic that people are cutthroat survivalists by our very human nature. This is completely contradictory to history. If that was our nature, how would we have developed society and civilization? The edginess that people have in game towards others is due to the fact that everyone represents a distinct threat. Suppose everyone started without a gun, but had a melee weapon of some sort that was pretty weak. People could still hurt and kill each other but it would be more difficult. Also this would encourage more teaming up as zombies would be harder to handle on your own.

As an example of this, realize that in real life, the stranger standing next to you might attack you with his bare hands. He could potentially kill you. Does that make you nervous and wary of him? No, not really unless he is really big, has a bad attitude towards you and you're alone. Now imagine he has a gun in his hand, and he is otherwise not threatening in any way. He's not even looking at you. Your mind is going to be racing because he is a major threat. Even if he is completely non threatening in his demeanor, his capacity to do you harm is exceptionally high. It is that perceived threat in my opinion, which causes a great deal of the pk'ing in the game, besides those that do it for the lulz.

[Goldstein (DayZ) 46]

I find it interesting from a sociological perspective.

The difference between people on an Aus server and a US one is astounding.

Bottom line, if I'm in the USA when the Zombiepocalypse comes. I'm teaming up with the zombies..

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

dont worry goldstein, it takes a while for bandits to create more bandits

[Goldstein (DayZ) 46]

DayZ brings out my inner good-guy-greg.

If we give into fear, the bandits win. I shall continue to give people food, ammo and water until I am the Jesus of the wastelands.

And like jesus, when I die, I am resurrected. Quite a lot actually :(

[deadbolt (DayZ) 10]

so you say... once you start getting good gear and start getting shot in the back after helping people you will slowly become one of us

[Goldstein (DayZ) 46]

you're merely a victim of a flawed game mechanic. for that I forgive you and am sorry for the actions of cod-trolls.

that being said, when the day comes where I can decide my characters morality; none shall be spared.

the streets will be flooded with tears and the flesh of dead dog campanions shall fuel my genocide :)