Breathholding, Out of breath

[Officer Failure 33]

Me and a couple of friends changed from Arma2 Dayz mod to the standalone 1,5 years ago. The game is in about 98% of its content very very much better but in one aspect it really got dumbed down. The gunplay. There are some goos threads about movement and it's great that they're about to fix the sprintleaning but the most proplematic one is in our opinion the "no sway" breathhoding (i call it weaponfocus).
It's not just super unreallistic it also leads to ridiculous behavior. You get benchrest shooting conditions just by honding a button- in every stance! The devs made the prone stance very nicely but most players never uses them. Youtube or reddit show lots of those 750m free standing shots vidoes.

You can race across the map (by foot) and if you spot someone you just need about 5 seconds to regen enough stamina and you're ready. Like the other day someone was cutting a tree. I stopped - below 100m - pulled out the bottled mosin - strg and pop. Poor fella didn't got a chance and you can easily go for the head since you don't have to "wiggle" in.  And it doesn't matter which weapon. What's the point of the pioneer rifle? I mean it's an excellent choice very lightweight, light caliber, precise, optimiced for getting ready quickly up to intermediate range - a police rifle. But everyone i met ingame was dropping it for a mosin since it deals more damage.
I fear if they ever bring 12 kg Machine guns or some heavy sniper rifles (they have a bypod for a reason!) in to the game (i hope they never do) everyone will use them free standing which is very very unreallistic and bad for the weaponbalance. Everyone would go for the biggest damage since aiming is this easy and there would be no differece between a 3kg scoped scout and a 12kg scoped machine gun.

The easiest fix would be if breathholding (weaponfocus) reduces sway and not eliminating it.  And making it dependable by the stance of the player. My example:
Reduce sway by breath holding
25% when standing
50% kneeling
and 80% if the player goes prone. Those are just example figures but i think you get the idea.
(and increase sway by+100% for leanshooters - it's not that steady)

In the earlier woodchopper headshot example it would so far only change that i wouldn't  be so accurate and maybe searching higher ground so i could shoot prone. It still would take only 5 seconds to regen stamina for breathholding (15 seconds for the bar to fill entirely but you always can't hold breath longer than 6 seconds (ish))

That leads to second part - beeing out of breath (exausted)
Arma2 had done it very nicely - if you ran alot you would breathe heavily for quite some time and the sway was increased - not good for precise shots.

I would suggest to seperate breathholding (weaponfocus) from stamina (sprinting, heavy melee) and make two bars.
Breath should only regen when stamina is full (or 3/4). And when you sprint (if you carry no weight it's about 25 seconds) breath bar drops quickly - like in 5 seconds empty. And when you jogg stamina should dropp slowly (like 1minute) to 1/4 but not further and breath should empty out in 20 seconds of jogging.
In that case you can still sprint about 5 seconds and the sprint jogg cycle would be the same as original(5sec sprint - 4 secs jogg).
Again - it's more about the idea not the exact figures.
And with this stamina bar implemented you can increase sway and heavy breathing noise within it's quarters.

And back to that woodchoper example this would change alot. If i ran for very long i couldn't get a good shot right away and for breath holding (weaponfocus) I would've to wait at least 30 seconds(maybe to less?). More
chances to get spot and worse accuracy.

So what do you guys think?
Thanks for reading!

[Tristan Cooper 12]

I can’t add much to it. Good stuff! You spent a fair amount of time on it eh?

[Shift 25]

I completely agree to all the proposals.

[Parazight 1599]

I'm not sure about your proposals, might be good.   What are your thoughts on simulating adrenaline and the use of epinephrine?

[Officer Failure 33]

With epinephrine i would say that the breath bar (weaponfocus) should go down the same way - i mean you still need to breathe. But I'm not sure about the stamina bar.
If you don't want to suffer from heavy breathing (increased sway) then the stamina bar could just stay full. But if you wanna suffer from it then it should go down - but with ether

endless running even when the bar is empty (as long as it is effective)
or you could just double or tripple the initial stamina when injected - the effect of epinephrine is not very long anyways.

I'm not sure what about mean about simulating adrenaline.

[Parazight 1599]

3 hours ago, Officer Failure said:

I'm not sure what about mean about simulating adrenaline.

The phenomenon observed when humans are otherwise able to achieve super human like feats because of tense situations and importantly, how to translate that into an authentic game simulation.  As in, adrenaline that soldiers would have when in actual combat.  You gotta be some cold ass cucumber not to have a rise in adrenaline in real life combat, I imagine.

[Officer Failure 33]

Thats worth a whole new topic i guess.
I mean, what should trigger it? Received shock damage, sufficient loud foodsteps (unknown players footsteps  gets my pump going), zombie screems? Close shots (Arma2dayzmod had such a mechanism agains combat logging)?
How long should it last? Beeing more exhausted after?
And what mechanics should it influence? Running speed? More stamina? Faster movements (which are already quite fast)?
Less sway because beeing more concentrated? Or more shacking because fear?
Or like a soft skill -> frightened first but sturdy later -with the symbol of a cucumber

Edited February 3, 2022 by Officer Failure
typos

[Buakaw 274]

On 2/2/2022 at 11:56 PM, Officer Failure said:

The easiest fix would be if breathholding (weaponfocus) reduces sway and not eliminating it.  And making it dependable by the stance of the player. My example:
Reduce sway by breath holding
25% when standing
50% kneeling
and 80% if the player goes prone. Those are just example figures but i think you get the idea.
(and increase sway by+100% for leanshooters - it's not that steady)

Would say: reduce overall sway because it's quite much when you are standing still, but make it so you still have sway when holding breath

[GameComplainer 10]

Bohemia probably saw this and thought, he wants kitchen timers and a meat tenderizer.